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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Cars / February 200688 Daytona Fuel problem
ok, i have an 88 daytona 2.2 turbo. lastnight i'm going to the store when the car dies. i pull off to the side of the road, engine cranks fine, but i don't hear the fuel pump. after pushing the car home, i test the pump first, and get ~4.4 ohms from the pump itself. nect i turned the key to the on position, and only drew about 0.2v from the wiring harness. is there an inertia switch somewhere? gonna fiddle around with the wiring harness under the hood a bit, any help would be appreciated =) > ok, i have an 88 daytona 2.2 turbo. lastnight i'm going to the store > when the car dies. i pull off to the side of the road, engine cranks [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > around with the wiring harness under the hood a bit, any help would be > appreciated =) No inertia switch, but keep in mind...when you turn the key on you only have 3 seconds that the circuit is powered up until the shut down relay shuts power off to the pump. Make sure you have someone turn the key on while you are checking the power feed at the pump. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech okay, took your advice and had the wife turn the key on. First though, a correction, with the key on i got only 0.01v constant. Now when she turned the key for me, it jumped to 0.08v. i traced the wire to the dash - i believe - and looks like it goes into a relay. does anyone happen to know offhand what else is on that particular relay? seems like everything else is working, but i may have over looked something. as a side note, i'm competent with wiring schematics, but i cannot find one for the life of me, so if someone could point me in the right direction i would be grateful. btw.....i mean i cannot find one online =/ > okay, took your advice and had the wife turn the key on. First though, > a correction, with the key on i got only 0.01v constant. Now when she > turned the key for me, it jumped to 0.08v. i traced the wire to the > dash - i believe - and looks like it goes into a relay. does anyone > happen to know offhand what else is on that particular relay? seems > like everything else is working, but i may have over looked something. Assuming you are testing the fuel pump feed that wire will not go into the vehicle, it does go into a relay under the hood called the shut down relay, if you are tracing a wire going into the vehicle you may be testing out the fuel sending unit circuit which indeed does go into the vehicle and will not have 12 volts on that circuit. It has been a long time since I had to work on that model. At the tank is there 2 separate modules in it? The wire you want to check is the z1 Darkgreen/black tracer. it gets spliced and feeds the ignition coil + side from the shut down relay under the hood. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech okay, i am tracing the dkgrn/blk wire. so i suppose its good news that i'm at least on track there, and that is the one i've been taking voltage off of. and in the tank there are 2 harness ends, 1 with 2 wires (dkgrn/blk and white (beige maybe?) and the other modules has a 3 wire harness end on it - although i'm not sure of the color, i'm assuming its the fuel gauge/idiot light for low fuel. i'm going crazy looking for that relay since i can't hear it, because if memory serves, i used to hear the pump and a relay kick before i started the car, but i no longer hear a relay. the only manual i have is for 81-88 chrysler's (like 8 models) so it does no good on the specifices i need, and the local auto stores don't have the specific one for my car. assuming i can find the relay...how would i test it? i have my dig. multimeter, but can't find my friggin alligator leads anywhere (the joys of having 3 sons) thanks for all your help as of now, because it gives me hope that i'm on the right track > okay, i am tracing the dkgrn/blk wire. so i suppose its good news that > i'm at least on track there, and that is the one i've been taking [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > joys of having 3 sons) thanks for all your help as of now, because it > gives me hope that i'm on the right track First make sure you don't have any blown fusible links under the hood. Then make sure you have 12 volts at pin 3 (14) way connector at the SMEC DB/WT fused J2 wire. The relay is under the hood, I forget where but normally on the drivers side fender area. It will have 4 wires, DB/WT RED DB/YELLOW DG/BK The red wire is from the Orange fusible link, the DG/BK goes to the pump, if you were to jump those 2 wires the pump should turn on assuming the circuit and pump is good. Technically if you were to apply 12 volts to the + side of the ignition coil this vehicle should start and run assuming circuit and pump is good. Glenn Beasley Chrysler tech as a further note, i checked the voltage on the + side of the coil, and when i turned the key to the "on" position i got only 0.01v the first time, and then nothing 4 times after that. do i actually have to turn the car over to discharge the coil, or should it charge everytime i hit the "on" position? and....if i did do that correctly, it tells me the autoshutdown relay is bad - where would that be at? and would it be a dealer-only item? thanks heh, looks like i was on the correct page, but alas, its getting dark and i have jack for equip here, its all at the in-laws.....whch in hidsight is safer tahn here, but not much use when i can't drive there to use it =/ thanks for all the help glenn, i just hope some of that info was from a book or something, cause thinking about actually remembering all that makes MY head hurt =P gonna jump the coil, cause this is daytona #2 for me, and if it blows up...oh well. my last one like to shut-off as i drove.....then kic back on 100-500yds later if i was lucky. > as a further note, i checked the voltage on the + side of the coil, and > when i turned the key to the "on" position i got only 0.01v the first [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is bad - where would that be at? and would it be a dealer-only item? > thanks Wrong!!! it doesn't tell you the shut down relay is bad, it just tells you that you have no voltage from the shut down to the components, you still have the circuit on the other side that pulls the relay closed, Allot of what you just wrote makes no sense to me. And I already told you where I thought the relay was!! And didn't you say your wife turned the key (trying to start the vehicle) while you were testing the wire at the pump? Any way good luck>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech the ASD relay is inside the power module if it is anything like the 87 Lancer. And if so then a replacement Power Module might be in the cards. I'm having a slightly different prob. Seems like I'm getting a spark but I'm wondering if it is hot enough? I'm wondering if the distributor pick up feeds into the Logic Module and could this pickup be bad? I measured the voltage between N5 and N6 (input and ground) and got 4.97 volts (spec is 5 VDC) so that sounds good but signal N7 was a constant 3.2 V (isn't that supposed to be a pulse or what (4 pulses per rev)? > the ASD relay is inside the power module if it is anything like the 87 > Lancer. And if so then a replacement Power Module might be in the cards. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is 5 VDC) so that sounds good but signal N7 was a constant 3.2 V (isn't > that supposed to be a pulse or what (4 pulses per rev)? The 88 doesn't use a power module, It uses a SMEC. The ASD relay is not internal to the SMEC. I wonder what engine you have in yours????? Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech well thanks for the info, and fyi: the fuel tank is held on by rachet straps at this point, the brackets are gone....not my doing =/ anyhow, i'm wndering why the fuel pump wiring harness terminates into the back of the tank if the pump itself is in the top of the tank. On the back of the tank are 2 plugs, and i think 3 hoses (might just be 2, not looking at it atm). one plug is pump power w/the same wire running from the harness end all the way to the auto-shutoff relay (replaced it) could the pump be on the backside of the tank? i just got the car a year ago, so could it be an aftermarket replacement tank w/easier fuel pump access? doesn't seem likely, as the wiring harness is the perfect length to reach it (unless more wire was spliced in). and luckily i never have much gas in it, so i can just loosen the straps and let her fall...gently of course =) thanks much > well thanks for the info, and fyi: the fuel tank is held on by rachet > straps at this point, the brackets are gone....not my doing =/ [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and let her fall...gently of course =) > thanks much From the manufacturer the pump is in the tank, what happens after that anything is possible oh, and obviously the tank is not tight against the body, which may explain why i can get to it so easily. also, i'm still only getting ~0.01 - 0.03vDC to the + side of the coil when cranking. haven't tried jumping it straight from the battery yet, think the last person that borrowed my cables kept em =/ and i only get ~0.5 ohms resistance through the fusible link thats right there next to the shutoff relay >ok, i have an 88 daytona 2.2 turbo. lastnight i'm going to the store >when the car dies. i pull off to the side of the road, engine cranks [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >around with the wiring harness under the hood a bit, any help would be >appreciated =) Heh heh heh.... get ready to drop the tank and put in a new fuel pump. Sounds like the exact situation I had with my 88 Daytona. Consider yourself lucky if you can get the tank strap bolts off without snapping the studs off. If you DO snap a stud, suffice it to say you can fairly easily make a dimple in the remnant of the stud, use a VERY small drill bit to make a pilot hole up through the stud and then drill the thing out with a larger (can't remember for sure, maybe 3/8") drill bit. replace the stud with a bolt of suitable size. I was fortunate enough that the hole I created in the hatch floor was just the exact size to allow the bolt head to clear and to allow a screwdriver wedged in to prevent the bolt from turning when tightening/loosening. Oh, and getting all the fuel out is a REAL bear. I had to resort to siphoning all I could, but there was still about five gallons that had to be poured out once the tank was removed. It's not a fun job. Not overly complicated, no special tools/techniques required, but still not a fun job.... Oh. And while you're down there, might as well go ahead and replace the fuel filter. Save yourself from having to do it later.... Raymond A. Sirois SysOp: The Lost Chord BBS telnet://thelostchord.dns2go.com:6023 http://thelostchord.dns2go.com:6080 > >ok, i have an 88 daytona 2.2 turbo. lastnight i'm going to the store > >when the car dies. i pull off to the side of the road, engine cranks [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > telnet://thelostchord.dns2go.com:6023 > http://thelostchord.dns2go.com:6080 That pump will come out just by lowering the straps, leaving them on and popping out the pump Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech >> SysOp: The Lost Chord BBS >> telnet://thelostchord.dns2go.com:6023 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Glenn Beasley >Chrysler Tech Yeah, it will, but I found that it's nearly impossible to get enough gasoline out of the tank that you don't have it pouring all over the place when you pull the pump. I tried it. I know. There's a baffle in the bottom of the tank the keeps you from getting all the fuel out with a siphon hose. Luckily the first time I did the job I was in a wash bay in our maintenance garage, so there were drains in the floor. For the guy doing the job in his garage, it's probably a better idea - albeit more work - to completely pull the tank, pour the remaining fuel out of the filler neck hole, and then remove and replace the pump with the tank out in the open... Raymond A. Sirois SysOp: The Lost Chord BBS telnet://thelostchord.dns2go.com:6023 http://thelostchord.dns2go.com:6080 |
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