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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Cars / August 2006

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87 octane vs 89 octane

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Tiny - 20 Aug 2006 00:47 GMT
I'm considering the purchase of a 2006 Charger with the 3.5L V6. I'm
concerned about the recommended octane level for the 3.5. All gasoline
is expensive and 89 octane is out of the question. I've read that 87
octane is "OK" to use in the 06 3.5 but there must be a difference or
89 wouldn't be the primary choice. What problems will I have if I use
87 exclusively? (pinging, loss of power, etc.) Thanks.

Man who scratches backside shouldn't bite fingernails.
The gene pool needs more chlorine.
Change .com to .net to reply direct.
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maxpower - 20 Aug 2006 00:51 GMT
> I'm considering the purchase of a 2006 Charger with the 3.5L V6. I'm
> concerned about the recommended octane level for the 3.5. All gasoline
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Change .com to .net to reply direct.
> www.terraworld.net/tiny

You may see some power loss due to the timing being retarded if the engine
controller detects pinging.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech
MoPar Man - 20 Aug 2006 00:57 GMT

> I'm considering the purchase of a 2006 Charger with the 3.5L V6.
> I'm concerned about the recommended octane level for the 3.5.

If it's the same engine they put in the 300M's, then my 2000 300M does
just fine on 87 octane.  That's all I ever use.

> I've read that 87 octane is "OK" to use in the 06 3.5 but there
> must be a difference or 89 wouldn't be the primary choice.

The horsepower, torque, 1/4 mile times they publish are probably using
89 or 91 octane.  That's why they say the recommended octane is 89 -
so that you don't complain to them when you don't get the 1/4 mile
time that Road and Track says they got.

Recommended is basically bullshit.  It's when they say "required" that
you have to sit up and take notice.

> What problems will I have if I use 87 exclusively? (pinging,
> loss of power, etc.) Thanks.

With electronic timing and ping sensors, and the fact that the lowest
grade of gas you can find is basically 87, even engines designed to
use 89 (which I'm sure the 3.5l isin't) can get by with 87.
Tbone - 20 Aug 2006 01:18 GMT
> > I'm considering the purchase of a 2006 Charger with the 3.5L V6.
> > I'm concerned about the recommended octane level for the 3.5.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> grade of gas you can find is basically 87, even engines designed to
> use 89 (which I'm sure the 3.5l isin't) can get by with 87.

I have an '06 Ram with the Hemi and in the manual it says to use 89
octane. I've read stories where people have used 87 instead and have
had to have all fuel lines and fuel rails replaced. I just look at it
as spending a few more dollars for something that's required.
Tiny - 20 Aug 2006 01:28 GMT
<snip>

>I have an '06 Ram with the Hemi and in the manual it says to use 89
>octane. I've read stories where people have used 87 instead and have
>had to have all fuel lines and fuel rails replaced. I just look at it
>as spending a few more dollars for something that's required.

That's a concern but I doubt they'd say 87 octane is "OK" if using it
would do that. My main concern is the 9.9 to 1 compression ratio & 87
octane gas. I'm assuming the timing would have to be retarded to stop
the engine from pinging. I had an 01 Ram with the 318 that had the
timing retarded for that reason (pinging) and it ran like a turd
because of it. I'm not going to race the car but I don't want to spend
that much money on a car to have it run like it's dragging a lead
weight behind it. Thanks for the opinions guys.
Man who scratches backside shouldn't bite fingernails.
The gene pool needs more chlorine.
Change .com to .net to reply direct.
www.terraworld.net/tiny
Tony D. - 20 Aug 2006 04:37 GMT
>>>What problems will I have if I use 87 exclusively? (pinging,
>>>loss of power, etc.) Thanks.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> had to have all fuel lines and fuel rails replaced. I just look at it
> as spending a few more dollars for something that's required.

I've heard stories about werewolves and vampires.

I guess that lower octane wears out steel???
MoPar Man - 20 Aug 2006 05:07 GMT
> I have an '06 Ram with the Hemi and in the manual it says to
> use 89 octane. I've read stories where people have used 87
> instead and have had to have all fuel lines and fuel rails
> replaced.

That's bull crap.

The fuel lines aren't affected by the octane rating of the gas.

They're not even affected by the blend of ethanol or methanol in the
gas (but rubber and plastic components are).

> I just look at it as spending a few more dollars for something
> that's required.

That's exactly what the oil companies want you to do.  They put a
premium product out there for people with money burning a hole in
their pocket.
Tiny - 20 Aug 2006 20:43 GMT
<snip>

>If it's the same engine they put in the 300M's, then my 2000 300M does
>just fine on 87 octane.  That's all I ever use.

What kind of mileage do you get with your 3.5? Have you checked it on
the highway? The sticker says 27 highway & if it gets close to that
using 87 I won't worry too much. Thanks again.

Man who scratches backside shouldn't bite fingernails.
The gene pool needs more chlorine.
Change .com to .net to reply direct.
www.terraworld.net/tiny
MoPar Man - 20 Aug 2006 21:01 GMT
> > If it's the same engine they put in the 300M's, then my 2000
> > 300M does just fine on 87 octane.  That's all I ever use.
> >
> What kind of mileage do you get with your 3.5? Have you checked
> it on the highway? The sticker says 27 highway & if it gets
> close to that using 87 I won't worry too much. Thanks again.

I've got about 65K miles on it after almost 7 years of ownership.  85%
of those are city miles.

When I'm on the highway, with the cruise control set for 120 km/h (75
mph) my tach says about 2250 rpm and the overhead milage display shows
anywhere from 26 to 30 mpg (highways around here are pretty flat) but
there might be a headwind sometimes.  Seeing the display at 28 for
long stretches on perfectly flat sections is not uncommon.  Turning
the AC on will usually knock about 1 mpg off the readout.

I'm very happy with the milage I get on the highway.

I also keep my tires at 34 psi.  That probably helps.
Tiny - 20 Aug 2006 21:13 GMT
>> > If it's the same engine they put in the 300M's, then my 2000
>> > 300M does just fine on 87 octane.  That's all I ever use.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>I also keep my tires at 34 psi.  That probably helps.

Thanks.
Man who scratches backside shouldn't bite fingernails.
The gene pool needs more chlorine.
Change .com to .net to reply direct.
www.terraworld.net/tiny
miles - 20 Aug 2006 03:22 GMT
> I'm considering the purchase of a 2006 Charger with the 3.5L V6. I'm
> concerned about the recommended octane level for the 3.5. All gasoline
> is expensive and 89 octane is out of the question. I've read that 87
> octane is "OK" to use in the 06 3.5 but there must be a difference or
> 89 wouldn't be the primary choice. What problems will I have if I use
> 87 exclusively? (pinging, loss of power, etc.) Thanks.

You're gonna spend over 20K for your new Charger.  The added expense of
10 cents or so a gallon isn't going to be much compared to the cost of
the car itself.  I have a 2004 Hemi Durango that also requires 89.  Just
not enough to worry about compared to how much the Durango cost me.
Total cost of ownership is what matters to me.

However, it does run fine on 87 unless I'm towing or traveling in steep
terrain in hot weather.
Tony D. - 20 Aug 2006 04:39 GMT
> I'm considering the purchase of a 2006 Charger with the 3.5L V6. I'm
> concerned about the recommended octane level for the 3.5. All gasoline
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Change .com to .net to reply direct.
> www.terraworld.net/tiny

If the ignition retards enough, your mileage will go down. Depending on
the price of fuel, the decrease in mileage may equal or surpass the fuel
cost of the higher octane.
Tim - 22 Aug 2006 04:03 GMT
> I'm considering the purchase of a 2006 Charger with the 3.5L V6. I'm
> concerned about the recommended octane level for the 3.5. All gasoline
> is expensive and 89 octane is out of the question. I've read that 87
> octane is "OK" to use in the 06 3.5 but there must be a difference or
> 89 wouldn't be the primary choice. What problems will I have if I use
> 87 exclusively? (pinging, loss of power, etc.) Thanks.

They don't recommend it for fun; after all, the recommendation hurts sales.
Don't buy a car that you are willing to treat properly.
Marcus - 23 Aug 2006 23:42 GMT
If you live considerably above sea level, another thing to consider is
altitude.  Keep in mind that octane serves essentially to reduce the chance
of detonation.  Generally speaking, reduced air density provides lower
combustion temperature and pressure, so that higher altitudes require less
octane.

If you live in Denver, for example, I've no doubt that you could run 87
octane and your Charger's PCM would never retard the timing at all.  But I
don't know where you cross the magic altitude line, though, that allows you
to run 87 octane with zero detrimental effect.  1500 feet?  3000 feet?

With older engines, as air density decreases, the stoichiometry tends to
move to rich, with a lower octane number requirement.  This may not be
applicable today, with carefully monitored air-fuel ratios.

Also with older engines, manifold vacuum controlled spark advance, and
reduced manifold vacuum results in less spark advance, though I don't know
if this would have any parallel effect on modern engines.

Marcus

> I'm considering the purchase of a 2006 Charger with the 3.5L V6. I'm
> concerned about the recommended octane level for the 3.5. All gasoline
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Change .com to .net to reply direct.
> www.terraworld.net/tiny
 
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