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Car Forum / Ferrari Cars / February 200688 TR Question
I just purchased an 88 Testarossa. It has 17,000 miles on it, and has had the 15,000 mile service done, which did not include changing the timing belts. Despite the 30,000 mile designation given to the engine out service, some people are telling me that it is a function of time. How often do you suggest doing the hyperexpensive major service, timewise? I have a 90 TR w/8000 miles. I did the 30K service on it about 8 months ago merely because of the age of the components. It's just too risky to jump a timing belt or other component. I also had all the radiator hoses/clamps changed - just because it's so easy since the engine is out of the car. I can't really imagine a reputable Ferrari dealer not strongly encouraging a 30K service on a car of that age - even though the mileage doesn't reflect the 30K increment. Just my $.02. FWIW - I noticed a considerable improvement in performance when the service was performed. It now pulls strongly through the entire RPM curve. Before the service interval, power diminised after about 5000 RPM. Now it's smooth up to redline. >I just purchased an 88 Testarossa. It has 17,000 miles on it, and has > had the 15,000 mile service done, which did not include changing the > timing belts. Despite the 30,000 mile designation given to the engine > out service, some people are telling me that it is a function of time. > How often do you suggest doing the hyperexpensive major service, > timewise? > I just purchased an 88 Testarossa. It has 17,000 miles on it, and has > had the 15,000 mile service done, which did not include changing the > timing belts. Despite the 30,000 mile designation given to the engine > out service, some people are telling me that it is a function of time. > How often do you suggest doing the hyperexpensive major service, > timewise? Only one thing matters.... Seventeen years. It should be done! T308 (Who has owned his 308 for a decade and has changed the belts twice...) "Tifosiki 308 (The Serial Number Greek)" <liverpoolfc@anfield.com> wrote > (Who has owned his 308 for a decade and has changed the belts > twice...) Really? I've had my 308 for eleven years and had the belts done four times. Am I over-doing it? Of course, I do 'use' the car rather more than some owners (usually 6,000 miles a year). -Paul >> (Who has owned his 308 for a decade and has changed the belts twice...) > > Really? I've had my 308 for eleven years and had the belts done four > times. Am I over-doing it? Of course, I do 'use' the car rather more than > some owners (usually 6,000 miles a year). Lordy, don't open *THAT* can o' worms! Long & short of it is that us Euros are advised to change belts on 3X8s every 2 years. In the US Ferrari says 5 years. Same engines, same parts & no logical explanation for the difference. I'm coming to the conclusion that 3 years is probably a happy medium (even at 6K miles a year). The tensioner bearings seem to be as much (if not more) of an issue. Did see somewhere recently that FNA have shortened the belt change interval on 348, 355 & 360 to 3 Years (from 5) recently - go figure. I. > "Tifosiki 308 (The Serial Number Greek)" <liverpoolfc@anfield.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > times. Am I over-doing it? Of course, I do 'use' the car rather more > than some owners (usually 6,000 miles a year). If I could drive my car in Europe I'd "use it" more as well. Then again, I'm sure I do "stress" my car a little more on its not so frequent drives than some capri-wearing nancy boys do. T308 (Who uses his car so infrequently that tyre black is never required....) "Tifosiki 308 (The Serial Number Greek)" <liverpoolfc@anfield.com> wrote > If I could drive my car in Europe I'd "use it" more as well. Then > again, I'm sure I do "stress" my car a little more on its not so > frequent drives than some capri-wearing nancy boys do. Ooooh, get HER! <cough> I mean, "I say! that wasn't a dig at you, I meant simply what I said - that I put in more miles than some. I have no idea what your annual mileage is. > (Who uses his car so infrequently that tyre black is never > required....) ....phone home.... <pointy finger routine> ...phone home... Ha! -PauloD >I just purchased an 88 Testarossa. It has 17,000 miles on it, and has >had the 15,000 mile service done, which did not include changing the >timing belts. Despite the 30,000 mile designation given to the engine >out service, some people are telling me that it is a function of time. It is a function of time, rubber belts decompose with exposure to oxygen and ozone. >How often do you suggest doing the hyperexpensive major service, >timewise? When the factory says to. Yours is well overdue. (maintenance cost)/(repair cost) << 1 > (maintenance cost)/(repair cost) << 1 Awarded quote of the week - like that one a lot! I. Well, I've driven the car a total of 17 miles, and one of ECUs on the 7-12 Cylinders side is dead. I'm advised that part costs $2,300 USD retail. The dealer is paying to replace that since it appears it was bad when they sold it to me (although how I would have proven that, I'm not sure). And, based upon the advice I've been given, I'm leaving the car with them, and they will take out the engine and replace the belts at a reduced price. Apparently thanks to a 4 year old 15,000 mile engine out service done at 14,900 miles, they don't feel that they have to do everything a 30,000 mile major service requires, but the belts, and all fluids are going to be done. That's going to cost me about $5,000 USD. They will pick up the differential by not taking a profit beyond that amount. They estimate they are saving me another couple of thousand dollars, although it is making the already overly high price on the TR even higher. So far I've driven the car a total of 17 miles, and I'll have it back in about two to three weeks, assuming parts availability. I'm currently measuring the price per mile in the tens of thousands of dollars. I certainly hope the car comes back sorted out, and is as sturdy as they are reported to be for a few years. So--- if one ECU goes out and is replaced, does the second one go out shortly thereafter, or are they truly independent? Thanks for the feedback, everyone. LW > Apparently thanks to a 4 year old 15,000 mile engine out service done at > 14,900 miles, they don't feel > that they have to do everything a 30,000 > mile major service requires, but the belts, and all fluids are going to > be done. That's a bit nuts - if the motor is coming out you may as well do a full major - and have them look at things like the fuel lines while they are in there. > So--- if one ECU goes out and is replaced, does the second one go out > shortly thereafter, or are they truly independent? No reason why it should that I know of > Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Write the check, write it off to experience and enjoy your car. I. > And, based upon the advice I've been given, I'm leaving the > car with them, and they will take out the engine and replace the belts [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and all fluids are going to be done. That's going to cost me about > $5,000 USD. While it's out, it easier to do ALL 30k service, but its ultimately your call. My service was about $7000. Had just about everything done for the 30K (but a few things didn't need it, based on the Ferrari mechanics experience). There were a few things that I didn't do based solely on my driving habits (which are less than 100 miles a month in many cases on suburban roads). My clutch was about 50% life, and with a replacement cost of about $4000 (and considering my non-demanding driving habits), that 50% will likely last me another 5+ years or more. > So--- if one ECU goes out and is replaced, does the second one go out > shortly thereafter, or are they truly independent? ECU's and TR's are a combination that leaves something to be desired at best. My understanding is that those particular cylinder ECU's detect ignition problems and are critical if you do serious driving (racing or heavy track time). If you drive simple road miles it's less of a concern, perhaps something that can be overlooked. Understand however that if faulty they won't properly detect ignition/timing issues when the engine is under heavy loads. "WhiteZin2000" <whitezin2000@comcast.net> wrote in message > Understand however that if faulty > they won't properly detect ignition/timing issues when the engine is under > heavy loads. ...or when you get a tankful of bad gas... Still have your TR, WhiteZin2000? -Matt- "..." Yep! Its still here - what a fun car to drive :) > "WhiteZin2000" <whitezin2000@comcast.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -Matt- "..." >Well, I've driven the car a total of 17 miles, and one of ECUs on the >7-12 Cylinders side is dead. I'm advised that part costs $2,300 USD [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Thanks for the feedback, everyone. May I ask who's your dealer? > That's going to cost me about > $5,000 USD. They will pick up the differential by not taking a profit > beyond that amount. Although how you will prove that, you're CERTAINLY not sure. Dealers take profits, it's how they stay in business.  SignatureIf you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death. > Well, I've driven the car a total of 17 miles, and one of ECUs on the > 7-12 Cylinders side is dead. I'm advised that part costs $2,300 USD [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > of thousands of dollars. I certainly hope the car comes back sorted > out, and is as sturdy as they are reported to be for a few years. Well at least you're not getting screwed. Sounds like they're trying to take care of you without giving away the store. You own one of the best-sounding Ferraris ever built, I hope you enjoy it! -Matt- "..." In California, USA there are emissions standards to work with. I need to find out if there is any way to remove the catalytic converters, without injuring the cars performance, but still either pass emissions testing or be able to put them back on reasonably easy. The cats seem to be a big part of the ECU malfunctions in these Testarossas, apparently, and I just don't like the heat build up. I tend to drive my sports car more than some, and can see using this vehicle as my "daily driver" in non rain or non snow applications. Probably 400 to 500 miles per month with another 400 to 500 on my Range Rover Sport, total. I'd like to not kill the car with heat. I have stock mufflers, no Tubis or the like. Money currently needs to go into systems the vehicle needs (as discussed above), and not into sound increases, but if there is something that can be done for the good of the car, that coincidentally increases sound, I'd be interested in knowing about it. And for a bit of heresy, has anyone installed a "sun roof" in a Testarossa? I've seen the convertible conversions and I don't like them. I want to keep the lines of the car, but would like to learn whether or not there is a way to let sunshine in through the roof. Lastly how do you guys work around glare from the dash onto the front windshield. My leather is good, and I don't want to glue any teflon pads for a mat, but need some way to cut down glare, without interfering with the look of the brown dash. > In California, USA there are emissions standards to work with. the bane of our existence. i once dreamed of the day that my 308 would become 30 and no longer be required to complete these ridiculous tests. sadly the governator stopped the clock at 1974. i hate him for it. I need > to find out if there is any way to remove the catalytic converters, > without injuring the cars performance, but still either pass emissions > testing never happen. or be able to put them back on reasonably easy. possible, but a pain. The cats seem > to be a big part of the ECU malfunctions in these Testarossas, > apparently, and I just don't like the heat build up. I tend to drive > my sports car more than some, and can see using this vehicle as my > "daily driver" in non rain or non snow applications. the best thing for it. at the current prices, you can use it like a used car and throw it away when you're done. Probably 400 to > 500 miles per month with another 400 to 500 on my Range Rover Sport, > total. I'd like to not kill the car with heat. I have stock [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the car, that coincidentally increases sound, I'd be interested in > knowing about it. you might investigate these. one of my former customers had good luck with them. http://hyper-flow.com/tr.htm > And for a bit of heresy, has anyone installed a "sun roof" in a > Testarossa? I've seen the convertible conversions and I don't like > them. I want to keep the lines of the car, but would like to learn > whether or not there is a way to let sunshine in through the roof. i've seen a few and they've been done very poorly. be very careful. > Lastly how do you guys work around glare from the dash onto the front > windshield. My leather is good, and I don't want to glue any teflon > pads for a mat, but need some way to cut down glare, without > interfering with the look of the brown dash. never had that problem. i'm sure there are some other solutions for a mat that wouldn't require gluing. try this: http://www.italiancarparts.com/covers/carcovers.html#shields failing that, MOUSE HAIR! T308 "Tifosiki 308 (The Serial Number Greek)" <liverpoolfc@anfield.com> wrote > the best thing for it. at the current prices, you can use it like a > used car and throw it away when you're done. WHAT??!!?? we are, are we not, talking about a Ferrari? Explain yourself, sir! MCPD > "Tifosiki 308 (The Serial Number Greek)" <liverpoolfc@anfield.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Explain yourself, sir! I will! The TR is the 365/410/412 of the 21st century. They should be driven, enjoyed and discarded when used up! $20k rebuilds on cars worth $40k just ain't gonna happen (i'm speaking of early TRs of course). Mark my words. In a decade these will be cheaper than the 3x8s of the time. T308 "Tifosiki 308 (The Serial Number Greek except when it comes to TRs)" wrote > I will! The TR is the 365/410/412 of the 21st century. They should > be driven, enjoyed and discarded when used up! $20k rebuilds on cars > worth $40k just ain't gonna happen (i'm speaking of early TRs of > course). Mark my words. In a decade these will be cheaper than the > 3x8s of the time. Well, I wouldn't even begin to consider contemplating thinking about disagreeing with your near-legendary knowledge of the historical place of each typo... ...BUT any Ferrari is a Ferrari. The 412 may be the most illogical purchase one can imagine (OK, a 412 due a major service is the most illogical purchase) but it's still a Ferrari, still beautiful (yes it is - shut up at the back! I once saw a black one on the Champs Elysees and it was DAMN cool. Cool in a boxy way, but still COOL... ...alright *very* boxy... but *cool*. Yes it is!). I'm grateful that some owners love them and continue to look after them. The rarer they get, the more important that is. Each one that dies is one less of an already miniscule number (in automotive production terms). This is equally true of the TR, it is a true car of the 80s, it may come with a free chest wig and medalion, but in my book it's still awsome... awesome in a wedgy way, but still awesome. If someone gave me the keys to one I know I'd get all tingly when I climbed in. 'discarded when used up' ? shame on you, sir! Shame! -Paul > 'discarded when used up' ? shame on you, sir! Shame! Its that time of the month again, isn't it............?! I. >This is >equally true of the TR, it is a true car of the 80s, it may come with a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >'discarded when used up' ? shame on you, sir! Shame! I agree... They should be crushed as found, covered in glass, and used as coffee tables for snorting coke from (same demographic). Cheese graters... WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? >>This is >>equally true of the TR, it is a true car of the 80s, it may come with a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Cheese graters... WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? Hey, I snorted coke from a glass table once. It was COOL. SignatureIf you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death. >> I agree... They should be crushed as found, covered in glass, and >> used as coffee tables for snorting coke from (same demographic). >> >> Cheese graters... WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? > >Hey, I snorted coke from a glass table once. It was COOL. Remember the 70's Time or Newsweek cover declaring it a health supplement the equal of vitamins B? >>>I agree... They should be crushed as found, covered in glass, and >>>used as coffee tables for snorting coke from (same demographic). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Remember the 70's Time or Newsweek cover declaring it a health > supplement the equal of vitamins B? I think I do, were there not pictures of colored pill capsules along with a small pile of blow? Something like that? (remembering I was between 9 and 17 at the time ... coke didn't make it's kind-of-brief entry into my universe until the last part of the 80s ... and onward) SignatureIf you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death. > Hey, I snorted coke from a glass table once. It was COOL. <waves gold envelope in the air> ...And the prize for 'Least surprising revelation of the century goes to....' >>Hey, I snorted coke from a glass table once. It was COOL. > > <waves gold envelope in the air> > > ...And the prize for 'Least surprising revelation of the century goes > to....' WTH ... it didn't hurt me on the road to my first million _____! (hallucinations, failed sexual adventures, migraines, therapists, lithium pills ... insert whichever) SignatureIf you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death. >>> This is equally true of the TR, it is a true car of the 80s, it may >>> come with a free chest wig and medalion, but in my book it's still [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Hey, I snorted coke from a glass table once. It was COOL. Once? T308 > "Tifosiki 308 (The Serial Number Greek except when it comes to TRs)" > wrote [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > -Paul This exchange is cracking me up! I agree with T308 that the TR will drop toward $40k for the pigs as the maintenance costs are high enough as to rarely get done on time. I saw one in traffic right before winter and from the front that thing still looks wicked, so wide and low... I hate the taillights, but I'd drive the hell out of one. The sound makes me forget everything else about them. I hear clips online or hear the car in person and think "that's what a damned exotic should sound like!" Ditto the Berlinetta Boxers, except they're gorgeous to my eyes so ultimately I need a carbed 512BB for the ultimate exotic experience! Eeyup, now who's gonna buy me one..? Anyone? Crap. Still have to work... -Matt- "..." > Well, I wouldn't even begin to consider contemplating thinking about > disagreeing with your near-legendary knowledge of the historical place > of each typo... Typo, tipo, let's call the whole thing off... > ...BUT any Ferrari is a Ferrari. The 412 may be the most illogical > purchase one can imagine (OK, a 412 due a major service is the most > illogical purchase) but it's still a Ferrari, still beautiful (yes it > is - shut up at the back! I once saw a black one on the Champs Elysees > and it was DAMN cool. Cool in a boxy way, but still COOL... I agree, they do have charm, I wouldn't mind owning a well cared for example myself. Sadly they don't make financial sense and most have been truly abused and neglected. > ...alright *very* boxy... but *cool*. Yes it is!). I'm grateful that > some owners love them and continue to look after them. The rarer they [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > free chest wig and medalion, but in my book it's still awsome... awesome > in a wedgy way, but still awesome. And they are awesome to drive, so they should be, with vigor and when they're upside down in the dollar (or pound) department, they should go to Johnny Shaughnessy (who I'm sure will take over his daddy's Ferrari boneyard) to allow the remaining TRs to continue on the road over the next 30 years. These aren't cars of which one or two or even a thousand were made. There's lots of them and the Ferrari world won't miss these relics of 1980s mega excess when there are fewer of them about. > If someone gave me the keys to one I know I'd get all tingly when I > climbed in. > > 'discarded when used up' ? shame on you, sir! Shame! I will accept your shaming but I know I'm right! T308 (Who thinks that MCPD likely has a pastel linen jacket in his closet.......) "Tifosi 308 (The Serial Number Geek)" <liverpoolfc@anfield.com> wrote in message > I will accept your shaming but I know I'm right! > > T308 > (Who thinks that MCPD likely has a pastel linen jacket in his closet.......) A DK quote comes to mind: "Hi, I'm your MTV VJ! I wear a satin baseball jacket everywhere I go! I always sound like I'm waaaacked out on quaaludes!" (from "MTV Get Off the Air", on the "Frankenchrist" album) Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. -Matt- "Fun fun fun in the fluffy chair, flame up the herb woof down the beer..." "There's lots of them and the Ferrari world won't miss these relics of 1980s mega excess when there are fewer of them about." I like that about the car. It's excessive and there are enough of them to motivate people to make parts for them. No one will ever need a two seat car, mid engined car, with a 12 cylinders, side radiators, and huge strakes, in Ferrari red. It is over the top, and will probably never be done like that again. But before we all retire to Prius's I'd like to listen to the engine scream behind me a few times as I put my license at risk. I chose this over both the 355 and the least expensive 550s, and assuming I ever get it out of the shop, I'm really looking forward to a winding ride over the hills and out to the ocean!! > "There's lots of them and the Ferrari world won't miss these > relics of 1980s mega excess when there are fewer of them about." [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a two seat car, mid engined car, with a 12 cylinders, side radiators, > and huge strakes, in Ferrari red. None of us need our cars, we just want 'em! It is over the top, and will > probably never be done like that again. But before we all retire to > Prius's I'd like to listen to the engine scream [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'm really looking forward to a winding ride over the hills and out to > the ocean!! Are you in Socal? If so, we'll have to start thinking of a west coast pub run! T308 (Who's ready to have his humble 308 blow off by the above mentioned TR..) T308 I'm in Norcal, but could meet somewhere along the Coast on a Saturday. Probably be March before the car is back, and I've got the time to take a serious ride. I would have kept the Viper if my interest wasn in blowing off other cars. But a spirited ride certainly sounds interesting. Let me get it back and make sure it's running and that I can drive it. Anyone else want to join us? Anyone else want to join us? I would, but It's a rather long drive :-( -MCPD > I'm in Norcal, but could meet somewhere along the Coast on a Saturday. > Probably be March before the car is back, and I've got the time to take > a serious ride. I would have kept the Viper if my interest wasn in > blowing off other cars. But a spirited ride certainly sounds > interesting. Let me get it back and make sure it's running and that I > can drive it. Anyone else want to join us? Sure! But John will have to come down and pick me up first. SignatureIf you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death. >> I'm in Norcal, but could meet somewhere along the Coast on a Saturday. >> Probably be March before the car is back, and I've got the time to take [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > But John will have to come down and pick me up first. I'll have to have Southwest Airlines do that! T308 "Tifosi 250 (The Serial TR killer)" wrote > I agree, they do have charm, I wouldn't mind owning a well cared for > example myself. Sadly they don't make financial sense and most have > been truly abused and neglected. "Sadly they don't make financial sense" Do what now??? <investments advisor> "We have indexed linked, Growth, pension or property funds" <buyer> "Hmm.... and they guarantee a return, do they?" <advisor> "Well, nothing is guaranteed... but they do offer a sound investment strategy, one that 'makes financial sense', if you will." <buyer> "You don't have anything a little - how shall we say? 'more exciting', perchance?" <advisor> "Ahhhhh, I can see that sir is either a high-flying, makes-his-own-rules, my-way-or-the-highway, vision-is-my-middle-name, maverick-financial kind of fellow, or he simply came down with the last shower." (studies buyer for a moment... ...notes vacant smile and stains on shirt) <advisor> "well... I do have something a little out of the ordinary..." <buyer> "Yes?" <advisor> " I don't normally offer this, but since I can see how astute you are..." <buyer> "Yes?, Yes?" <advisor> "Yesssss..... It's this Ferrari 412" <buyer> "a 412? well.... ....aren't they.... um ...boxy?" <advisor> "Tut-tut, sir; boxy... but *cool*" <buyer> "I see" <advisor>" Oh yes - this fine example is a 1986 model in <cough> spectacular condition with only 130,000 miles. The car is one of only 539 made - this particular one on a Friday... at about 5:30... and frankly is like new... with only minor paint blemishes... um.... that 'distinctive rattle from the cams... and slight traces of oil in the exhaust... but only when it's running, of course." <buyer>"When it's running...." <advisor>" Oh yes, and don't worry - it won't be doing that very often.... and even if it does, the <ahem> 'safety' feature of the permanently closed electric windows will ensure that sir is untroubled by the smoke. Ah, I can see sir is admiring the black pool beneath the engine." <buyer>"Is that normal?" <advisor> "Oh yes, they *all* do that, sir. It... it's a so-called 'full loss' system " <buyer> "And that's good, is it?" <advisor>"Oh yes." <buyer> "Any service history?" <advisor>"Oh no, sir, of *course* not. As original as the day it left the factory. You don't see many like this on the road, I can assure you!" <buyer>" ahhh... well I must say, I'm interested!..... you're sure it's 'cool'?" <advisor>"Way cool. ...in a boxy way." <buyer>"Well, that sure makes financial sense to me!" > (Who thinks that MCPD likely has a pastel linen jacket in his > closet.......) I'd go take a look, but then having gone in there, I'd have to come out.... ...and you know how people would talk. MCPD |
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