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Car Forum / Ferrari Cars / December 2003Interesting
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=7565 > http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=7565 Having leased the 99 C-5 Vette, and having seen pictures of the 95 C-6 which should come to market around $50,000, I start to question my affection for these hyper expensive cars such as Ferraris, which I can barely (if at all) afford. How much is "mystique" really worth in dollars and cents? >>http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=7565 > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > How much is "mystique" really worth in dollars and cents? In this group, anyway, your statement will be grilled, because at least for Ferraris, it isn't called "mystique". It's called "history", "tradition" .... it's the story, and the people, of the marque, that is imbued in every single car that rolls out of the factory. Anybody that buys a Ferrari without those things being a part of the consideration is just another clueless wealthy person and the car will be back on the market within six months or a year, at best. It is sad, too, that this world is so full of clueless wealthy people. I really think your niche is a *brand-new* high performance sports car between $65,000 and maybe $100,000. There are a lot of great models in that group - just not a Ferrari. I think you should really digest that and then just move on and make your choice. It shouldn't be so difficult. No offense .... it just seems like you keep thrashing the same stuff over and over in your mind. Get the new 'Vette, or some nasty AMG offering or something like that, and be happy! MC > >>http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=7565 > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > over and over in your mind. Get the new 'Vette, or some nasty AMG > offering or something like that, and be happy! Understood. I've purchased, read, and own a fair number of books on Ferrari, including Dinos. I really find Ferraris to be the most intriguing and beautiful of the cars, but $7,500 tune ups at 30,000 miles, and buy-ins for $75,000 for a 15 year old Testarossa, or $100,000 for a 96 355 (my first choice would be a 355, even over a 360) Part of the reason I'm thrashing it over, is that it will probably be close to a year before I purchase either....still too many kids requiring too many resources to spend the money on a high end car, so I'm using the time to read, review and compare. I'm clear that I don't want an AMG, or anything like that. My current car is a 99 S Class, and I don't really have all that high a regard for Mercedes. Great transportation, but not inspiring. If I'm becoming a pain on the subject, I'll just shut up. I'm not looking to be offensive. I'm just interested in soliciting thoughts and feelings. But thanks for the advice. I will take it seriously. > MC > Part of the reason I'm thrashing it over, is that it will probably be close > to a year before I purchase either....still too many kids requiring too many [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >>MC Personally, I really like almost all cars. I am a real knuckle-dragger in that respect. If it's good, well-made, fast, good-looking, whatever ... I like it. The price doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. I really like Mustangs, one can get started in those pretty inexpensively. But, you can end up in a Stage Twelve Roush or something like that and all of a sudden you're on the up side of sixty grand. Ferraris is just another category for me, something I worship. I don't worship very much in this life. You might want to test-drive an E55, though, if you haven't - personally I think one of those beasties would inspire me if I got the chance to mash the go pedal a bit. I don't want you to shut up, or find you offensive. I just think all this time that you're grinding about whether or not to Ferrari you could be spending behind the wheel of something else and having fun. MC > Personally, I really like almost all cars. I am a real knuckle-dragger > in that respect. If it's good, well-made, fast, good-looking, whatever [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > this time that you're grinding about whether or not to Ferrari you could > be spending behind the wheel of something else and having fun. I've found that the motorcycles fill in that "cheap fun-- need for speed niche" really well. Just sold my GSXR 1000 K3. That was toooooo fast for me. 0-60 2.7 seconds, 60-0 117 feet. I had one major injury fall in 1995, and felt like another one might be coming on. But in the meantime, for $10,000 you can buy more speed than any car, and Ducati is very similar to Ferrari in Italian heritage and enjoyment (and repair and maintenance needs). My wife has the 4.6 litre Mustang GT Convertible and she loves it. I looked at the E55, one of the guys at the office has the S55, but the point eludes me. They've taken a car that is meant to do transportation duties, and put too much engine into it for the chassis and brakes. If someone is going to drop 469 hp into the engine bay, I think it ought to have a car designed around the concept of being able to handle the speed and torque. On the other hand, if you are going to have one car, which you primarily need for taking kids to school, or going to work, or carrying people around, and you still want to be able to win the stop light wars, that's a pretty good choice. But if I was looking in that direction, I might look at next year's Cadillac CTS-V, which is BMW 530 sized, with a Corvette engine, and the reports on it, are that it is very, very good, all for about $40,000 less. > But if I was looking in that direction, I might look at next year's Cadillac > CTS-V, which is BMW 530 sized, with a Corvette engine, and the reports on > it, are that it is very, very good, all for about $40,000 less. I have heard many good and evil things about the CTS-V, though I've also heard they will be limited and dealer markups will be certain. MC > I really find Ferraris to be the most intriguing and beautiful of the > cars, but $7,500 tune ups at 30,000 miles, and buy-ins for $75,000 > for a 15 year old Testarossa, or $100,000 for a 96 355 (my first > choice would be a 355, even over a 360) Now if you are under 6'2", a Mondial in mint condition will only set you back about $30K. In fact, here is a beauty which I bet you could get for $28K. "http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3000/3042.html"  Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 >>I really find Ferraris to be the most intriguing and beautiful of the >>cars, but $7,500 tune ups at 30,000 miles, and buy-ins for $75,000 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > $28K. > "http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3000/3042.html" That was a very interesting page. I saw something else there, I wonder what the hell THIS is? I mean, I have to call it a kit car, but at the same time it sure looks a lot like a some of the Enzo prototypes that were thrown around (F60), or even a racing F50, or a Mythos ... http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3500/3822.html And then there was this Testarossa, which looks like a fairly decent-condition 512TR for dirt cheap. REI, this would be an awesome car to toss around for that kind of money. http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3500/3822.html MC > That was a very interesting page. I saw something else there, I wonder > what the hell THIS is? I mean, I have to call it a kit car, but at the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > MC Mikey.... Ya posted the same link twice. Bad psycho! >>That was a very interesting page. I saw something else there, I wonder >>what the hell THIS is? I mean, I have to call it a kit car, but at the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Mikey.... Ya posted the same link twice. Bad psycho! Oops ... sorry. Here it is. http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3500/3780.html MC > Oops ... sorry. Here it is. > > http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3500/3780.html Where is graffenstaden? >>Oops ... sorry. Here it is. >> >>http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3500/3780.html > > Where is graffenstaden? I was thinking Austria or Germany, but it looks like it is in Alsace, France. God, can I go with you? Some of the finest gewurztraminers in the world are made there. Incredible wines. http://www.travel-hotels-europe.com/bas-rhin-hotels/illkirch-graffenstaden-hotel s-1.htm MC >> http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3500/3822.html >> http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3500/3822.html >> >> MC > > Mikey.... Ya posted the same link twice. Bad psycho! Yeah, spammer!!! ;) Go sit in the corner (pointing to the round room) Best Wishes Thomas >>>http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3500/3822.html >>>http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3500/3822.html [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Best Wishes > Thomas Just another of my many fans? How come all these Corvette guys top-post? What's up with that? MC > How come all these Corvette guys top-post? What's up with that? I think it is stemming from the same source as their automotive dispositions! ;-) Ciao Zak -- ======================================================================== http://www.carfolio.com/ Searchable database of 10 000+ car specs Auctioning motoring-related items at eBay? http://www.carfolio.com/ebay/ ======================================================================== Pretty ugly, as far as Ferrari's go. IMO, of course. Was this model also available in a coupe? Signature-|>|- Diode -|<|- 68 L79 Coupe 79 Triumph Bonneville > > I really find Ferraris to be the most intriguing and beautiful of the > > cars, but $7,500 tune ups at 30,000 miles, and buy-ins for $75,000 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > $28K. > "http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3000/3042.html" > Pretty ugly, as far as Ferrari's go. IMO, of course. Was this model > also available in a coupe? Absolutely. Here is a shot of one: "http://www.motorcities.com/contents/03H3G204793585.html" I think the Mondial is very pretty. Not sexy, but refined. BTW, unless you go back to the 70's and look at the 2+2 (265, IIRC?); Mondial is the only 4 seater available from the 80s and 90s. How can you not like this car: "http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2447975063#eb ayphotohosting" Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 I guess when I think "Ferrari", I don't think "4 seater". I suppose if I was into bloated luxo cruisers I would probably be impressed. To me a Ferrari is a screaming fast 2 seat rocket ship with beautiful styling. The cars that you're showing me look like an Italian Mercury Marquis. Signature-|>|- Diode -|<|- 68 L79 Coupe 79 Triumph Bonneville > > Pretty ugly, as far as Ferrari's go. IMO, of course. Was this model > > also available in a coupe? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > How can you not like this car: "http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2447975063#eb > ayphotohosting" > I guess when I think "Ferrari", I don't think "4 seater". I suppose > if I was into bloated luxo cruisers I would probably be impressed. > To me a Ferrari is a screaming fast 2 seat rocket ship with beautiful > styling. The cars that you're showing me look like an Italian > Mercury Marquis. I don't feel that way. I like the looks of the Mondial. But if you don't like the Mondial, how about a 328 GTS. http://www.qv500.com/ferrari328p1.htm I had one a while back - ran well and was a blast to drive. A good 328 GTB is about $35K from the mid to late 80's. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 Of course I like the 328 GTS...from the back it looks very much like a 68 Corvette! Signature-|>|- Diode -|<|- 68 L79 Coupe 79 Triumph Bonneville > > I guess when I think "Ferrari", I don't think "4 seater". I suppose > > if I was into bloated luxo cruisers I would probably be impressed. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I had one a while back - ran well and was a blast to drive. A good 328 > GTB is about $35K from the mid to late 80's. > Of course I like the 328 GTS...from the back it looks very much like > a 68 Corvette! But from the front, it looks a lot like the Mondial. I think both were designed by Pinafarrina. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 Pinafarrina designed the 68 Corvette? I thought it was Larry Shinoda :o) Signature-|>|- Diode -|<|- 68 L79 Coupe 79 Triumph Bonneville > > Of course I like the 328 GTS...from the back it looks very much like > > a 68 Corvette! > > But from the front, it looks a lot like the Mondial. I think both were > designed by Pinafarrina. A Russian designed both to look like the Opel GT. SignatureDad 98 C5 Black/Black/Auto 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd > Pinafarrina designed the 68 Corvette? I thought it was Larry Shinoda :o) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > But from the front, it looks a lot like the Mondial. I think both were > > designed by Pinafarrina. >A Russian designed both to look like the Opel GT. LOL! I guess I shouldn't be laughing, an Opel GT was my first "Vette". <g> Tom M. > I guess I shouldn't be laughing, an Opel GT was my first "Vette". <g> Mine too. A bright red 1972 that deserved a proper burial. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 >> I guess I shouldn't be laughing, an Opel GT was my first "Vette". <g> > >Mine too. A bright red 1972 that deserved a proper burial. Mine was a used, bright red one with a flat black rear (woooooo!). I'm thinking it was a '70. Eventually, I moved on to a new '72 Datsun Z car. My current '86 Vette is the closest think I've ever driven that compared to the 240Z. Steering seems extremely neutral (i.e., like it is on rails). Granted, I haven't pushed the Vette as far as I did the Z (yet). Tom M. >> Mine too. A bright red 1972 that deserved a proper burial. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Steering seems extremely neutral (i.e., like it is on rails). > Granted, I haven't pushed the Vette as far as I did the Z (yet). I drive my sports cars like the were stolen. My Opel GT, well that was a POS. The exhaust system was so rotted out that you had to drive with both windows open or you would get light headed and your eyes would tear in under 2 minutes. It wouldn't keep running at stop lights. Had at least 100,000 miles on it. Bald tires with the actual plies showing. Man, how did I live through driving that thing?!?!? Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 > I drive my sports cars like the were stolen. My Opel GT, well that was a > POS. The exhaust system was so rotted out that you had to drive with both > windows open or you would get light headed and your eyes would tear in under > 2 minutes. It wouldn't keep running at stop lights. Had at least 100,000 > miles on it. Bald tires with the actual plies showing. Man, how did I > live through driving that thing?!?!? Not sure it was the car or the times we all went through when we started driving. White walls were a big deal when I started driving, what?, 10 bucks added cost and I couldn't afford that. Now if you have white walls like that you'd get pulled over and strip searched. SignatureDad 98 C5 Black/Black/Auto 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd >Not sure it was the car or the times we all went through when we started >driving. White walls were a big deal when I started driving, what?, 10 bucks >added cost and I couldn't afford that. Now if you have white walls like that >you'd get pulled over and strip searched. <G> And they'd call in the dogs, too. Tom M. > Of course I like the 328 GTS...from the back it looks very much like a 68 > Corvette! <SMACK !!!> I. Actually they both still look more like the Opel GT. SignatureDad 98 C5 Black/Black/Auto 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd > > > Of course I like the 328 GTS...from the back it looks very much like a 68 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I. <<Pretty ugly, as far as Ferrari's go.>> And yet, it's still a Ferrari. <<I guess when I think "Ferrari", I don't think "4 seater".>> Then you're missing out on a number of cars. <<I suppose if I was into bloated luxo cruisers I would probably be impressed.>> Nobody asked you to be *impressed*, but your opinion regarding these cars is based on ignorance as you've never driven one. <<To me a Ferrari is a screaming fast 2 seat rocket ship with beautiful styling.>> The Mondial is hardly the sleekest car ever to bear the Prancing Horse, but they're fast enough on the open road, will turn quick enough times trackside and sing that Ferrari V8 song as sweet as any 308. C. > > I really find Ferraris to be the most intriguing and beautiful of the > > cars, but $7,500 tune ups at 30,000 miles, and buy-ins for $75,000 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > $28K. > "http://volition.chooseyouritem.com/exotics/files/3000/3042.html" Thanks Hobbes, in checking the site it appears they've dropped the price to $27,500. Leather looks beat and the car has 60,000 miles. Any of you in either newsgroup have an opinion on this vehicle? Worth the money? > Having leased the 99 C-5 Vette, and having seen pictures of the 95 > C-6 which should come to market around $50,000, I start to question > my affection for these hyper expensive cars such as Ferraris, which I > can barely (if at all) afford. > > How much is "mystique" really worth in dollars and cents? IMHO, I would pay $60K for a 5 year old Ferrari F355 before I bought a $50K new Corvette. I would probably not pay $100K + for a Ferrari, but that having been said, my wife bought a Testarossa new, in 1989 I think. . Of course, the C4 was nothing back then compared to the Testarossa; but IMHO a new C5 puts the Testarossa to shame. Much as I loved my 1988 C4, it had nothing on the Testarossa. So, in answer to your question - I say $60K to $70K for an F-355 would have be getting rid of my C5's. Except for NHRA. No way I would beat the living crap out of an F355 at my local track. Those cars cannot handle the beating like a Z06 can. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 <<No way I would beat the living crap out of an F355 at my local track. Those cars cannot handle the beating like a Z06 can.>> You might want to rethink that. C. :::who has put almost 4000 race miles on a 355 F1::: > <<No way I would beat the living crap out of an F355 at my local track. Those > cars cannot handle the beating like a Z06 can.>> > > You might want to rethink that. > > C. :::who has put almost 4000 race miles on a 355 F1::: That stopped a lot.....! <running for cover> I. >No way I would beat the living crap out of an F355 at my local track. > Those cars cannot handle the beating like a Z06 can. You think a Chevy can take more abuse than a Ferrari? Thats so laughable it hurts! Chevys will do that to you. SignatureDad 98 C5 Black/Black/Auto 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd > >No way I would beat the living crap out of an F355 at my local track. > > Those cars cannot handle the beating like a Z06 can. > > You think a Chevy can take more abuse than a Ferrari? Thats so laughable it > hurts! I have a 98 C5 that I love dearly. Last summer my friend and I split the cost to rent a F 355 for a day. There was no question in both our minds that the Ferrari was a better engineered car for the ground up, but it should be for the price. Even my friend, a Z06 owner, said he wouldn't dare flog his Corvette as much we did to the F 355 in fear of it breaking. Well, my heart is always with Corvette, that little time behind the wheel of the Ferrari was an unforgettable experience. I never really understood all this talk about Ferrari being so 'special' and figured them to be just another sports car, but it only took a few miles behind the wheel to make a believer out of me. If the sound of that 3.5 liter V8 at 7500 rpm under hard acceleration doesn't make your heart flutter, I don't know what will =) > Chevys will do that to you. > -- [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > it > > hurts! Just curious, how many Ferrari owners out there with 250,000 miles on their cars? How many with 200,000, 150,000 or even 100,000, don't want to know about a friend of a friend knew a guy who's wife run off with a guy that knew a guy, just if you own one and how old is it? SignatureDad 98 C5 Black/Black/Auto 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd > I have a 98 C5 that I love dearly. Last summer my friend and I split the > cost to rent a F 355 for a day. There was no question in both our minds that [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > it > > > hurts! > Just curious, how many Ferrari owners out there with 250,000 miles on > their cars? How many with 200,000, 150,000 or even 100,000, don't > want to know about a friend of a friend knew a guy who's wife run off > with a guy that knew a guy, just if you own one and how old is it? Excellent question, Dad. Let's see how the Ferrari owners respond. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 >>Just curious, how many Ferrari owners out there with 250,000 miles on >>their cars? How many with 200,000, 150,000 or even 100,000, don't >>want to know about a friend of a friend knew a guy who's wife run off >>with a guy that knew a guy, just if you own one and how old is it? > > Excellent question, Dad. Let's see how the Ferrari owners respond. Why should you care? Exactly what point are you trying to make anyway? Smells to me like "Corvette costs less with *somewhat similar* performance, = better value, therefore = better than Ferrari". And you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Even Saddam knew when it was time to shoot and when it was time to cower in a hole. Sorry, guys - it appears that in this case past or recent Ferrari ownership hasn't given you a glimpse of the Grail that all the Ferrari owners I know carry in their back pocket. Get thee back to Bowling Green! MC > Smells to me like "Corvette costs less with *somewhat > similar* performance, = better value, therefore = better than > Ferrari". And you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Even Saddam > knew when it was time to shoot and when it was time to cower in a > hole. Smells to me like you just troll groups, wishing you owned either of the two cars in question. Oh, and mouth breather - C5R yet again this year beat Ferrari in ALMS GTS class. But thanks for playing. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 > Smells to me like you just troll groups, wishing you owned either of the two > cars in question. Oh, and mouth breather - C5R yet again this year beat > Ferrari in ALMS GTS class. But thanks for playing. MC has been an active AAF member for years now. He was just starting an innocent conversation, but the Corvette owners had to start hurling insults to try and satisfy their own shortcomings in automotive choice. > MC has been an active AAF member for years now. He was just starting > an innocent conversation, but the Corvette owners had to start > hurling insults to try and satisfy their own shortcomings in > automotive choice. Bullshit. I saw him being rude, but nobody attacked him. He is only getting insults he deserved. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 You guys need to lighten the f.ck up...it's the fuckin holidays, ya know? Time for fuckin peace and fuckin joy! So cut the fuckin sh.t and have a merry fuckin Christmas. Signature-|>- Diode -<|- '68 L79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville > > MC has been an active AAF member for years now. He was just starting > > an innocent conversation, but the Corvette owners had to start [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Bullshit. I saw him being rude, but nobody attacked him. He is only > getting insults he deserved. Ahh, Christmas with the Osbournes! Diode always manages to crack me up. SignatureRay Quayle in England '86 Indy PaceCar, 4+3 NCM Founder #2896 NCM Lifetime #672 Graduate of Gordon's School > You guys need to lighten the f.ck up...it's the fuckin holidays, ya know? > Time for fuckin peace and fuckin joy! So cut the fuckin sh.t and have a > merry fuckin Christmas. > Ahh, Christmas with the Osbournes! My wife was saying that Ozzie completely wrecked an ATV (4 wheel motorcycle) out on his property somewhere and managed to mess himself up enough to end up in serious condition at a local hospital. All those millions, and he couldn't get some motorcycle gear? Back when I was a kid, I always had a Yamaha Enduro, whether a 185 or a 360. And we always had helmets, gloves, boots, and even chest protectors. I guess that folks using these newfangled ATV's don't do that? Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 > You guys need to lighten the f.ck up...it's the fuckin holidays, ya > know? Time for fuckin peace and fuckin joy! So cut the fuckin sh.t > and have a merry fuckin Christmas. I think the beep-device in my computer just broke ;) Best Wishes Thomas > > MC has been an active AAF member for years now. He was just starting > > an innocent conversation, but the Corvette owners had to start [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Bullshit. I saw him being rude, but nobody attacked him. He is only > getting insults he deserved. There are different cultures in different newsgroups. MC posts to the Ferrari group, and for reasons known to him, and those who are his friends posts differently than you or I would. He didn't invite himself into this cross posting, so let me take the fall. It was my questioning that started the cross posting. Larry W.. > <Hobbes@CalvinBall.com> wrote in message >>> MC has been an active AAF member for years now. He was just starting [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > invite himself into this cross posting, so let me take the fall. It > was my questioning that started the cross posting. You don't owe them an apology for anything. If they want to be a bit rude because we like American cars, no biggie - we can handle it. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 I've owned both, I love both. I prefer the Corvette. > > Smells to me like you just troll groups, wishing you owned either of the > two [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > innocent conversation, but the Corvette owners had to start hurling insults > to try and satisfy their own shortcomings in automotive choice. > I've owned both, I love both. I prefer the Corvette. This was what I was really wondering. Car to explain why? What can you say, Ferrari is a supercar compared to the Corvette. The sound and exhilaration you get from the first time you drive a Ferrari stays with you forever. The Corvette is in so many ways a lot like the Ferrari, but in an American way. From kids to adults it gets the same looks from people as the Ferrari does. It's the mystique of the Italian sportcars that only a few can afford and the mystique of a true American sportcars. It doesn't matter what year you drive, or how much it costs, but people are in awe of these machines. I run into people all the time that drive cars more expensive than my 1993 convertible, yet they call me the lucky one. Thing is (and I know those on the Ferrari group will disagree), but most of the Ferrari's on the road aren't much better than today's Corvette. They just cost more. You want to get a Ferrari like they dream about and you buy an F-40 or the Enzo or the F-60. While all the others are fine cars, they really aren't supercars as they try to make out. As for the Corvette, I love the way the handle and perform, the newer the better. But most of all, I love the way the convertibles look. And except for a couple Ferrari's, their convertibles don't even come close to the Corvette. I chose a 1993 and have gone to get a new one a few times, but can't seem to let in go. It is original and still has the 40th embroidered on the seats. It isn't the special edition colors, but they put out less of the green/tan than they did the special edition maroon. So that's what I think. Just remember, the 308's, the Testerossa's, the 355's, are mid range Ferrari's. If you can afford the maintenance, they are beautiful cars. If you can't, go with the Corvette. > > I've owned both, I love both. I prefer the Corvette. > > This was what I was really wondering. Car to explain why? << The Corvette is in so many ways a lot like the Ferrari, but in an American way. From kids to adults it gets the same looks from people as the Ferrari does.>> That's the funniest thing said in this NG in weeks. Corvettes get the same looks as Ferraris? Hardly! How many times do you see a father stop, drop to their knee beside their small child, point to a car and in a hushed tone say, "That's a Corvette."? And yet, I can't tell you how many times I've seen a parent point out a Ferrari in just that way. The look on a child's face as they behold what must be something of grave importance based on their parent's attitude is absolutely priceless. C. > << The Corvette is in so many ways a lot like the Ferrari, but in an > American way. From kids to adults it gets the same looks from people > as the Ferrari does.>> > > That's the funniest thing said in this NG in weeks. Corvettes get the > same looks as Ferraris? Hardly! Actually, I hear tell that 'Vettes get quite a bit of attention ... in Italy. ;^) But then, I also hear that many '80s 'Vettes wouldn't fit on downtown streets in those parts, depriving the townfolk the chance to gather round -- except when it gets stuck in some alley. -- Speaker for the D00d >>Smells to me like "Corvette costs less with *somewhat >>similar* performance, = better value, therefore = better than [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cars in question. Oh, and mouth breather - C5R yet again this year beat > Ferrari in ALMS GTS class. But thanks for playing. You're wrong, Ball. I almost never cross-post. And I'll discontinue it in this case, too, after this post. What started out as an earnest bit of fact-finding by Larry has again (yawn) become the usual "mine is better than yours" pile of crap that middle-aged men with playtoys can't seem to grow out of. I've been contributing regularly to AAF for at least five years. We have a pretty tight group that appreciates many, many marques but reveres Ferrari. Our group is constantly hit by the "xxx car is the better value/Ferraris are overrated" assault from various other groups, but most often Porsche and yours. I happen to like Corvettes very much, but they're not even in the same league as Ferrari ... period. Get this straight, blowhard: owning a particular vehicle is not required to admire and be knowledgeable about the marque. It's about passion, not about the scales of comparative value and the subsequent bush league chest-beating. Yes, I've had to breathe through my mouth lately due to a nasty sinus infection - but I can assure you that in a war of wits between you and I, I'd be the one getting the ticker tape parade. Have a nice day. MC > Get this straight, blowhard: owning a particular vehicle is not > required to admire and be knowledgeable about the marque. So, basically what you are saying is that you do not own a Ferrari or Corvette. Is that correct? Have you ever owned a Ferrari in the past? Perhaps a Z06? Driving a Taurus wagon to your job stocking shelves at Piggly Wiggly is not helpful - the original poster wanted information about driving and owning a Ferrari. The whole experience of ownership, mouth breather. I also noticed that you have no comment with regard to C5R beating Ferrari for the past 5 years in ALMS. So when you spew on and on about them being in different leagues, what do you use as facts to make that assertion? Compare the performance then between an 03 Corvette Z06 and a production Ferrari. Perhaps the Modena? List 0-60, top speed, 1/4 mile times, slalom times, or any other performance specifications. List ALMS or SCCA rankings, where the two go head to head. This thread started by someone who was wondering about Ferrari longevity, quality, etc. You have done nothing to convince anyone of the value of owning a Ferrari, and that's a shame; because they are wonderful cars. Instead you chose to name call, make comments that had no basis in fact, and otherwise just waste bandwidth. Aren't there any Ferrari owners out there than can properly explain the vehicles Ferrari produced throughout it's history to the few folks in the Corvette group that are thinking about owning a used classic Ferrari? Because this moron MC is doing a sh.t job, and some folks were wondering about cars such as the Mondial, 328, etc. Thanks, Ball ... "Dad", and the rest. You're all right. I don't know sh.t, I don't own sh.t - in fact, Ball, I'm so pathetic that I am unable to hold down even a grocery store job. Of course, I failed troll school, which is why I set myself up so perfectly for your razor-like ripostes. Anyway, I'm almost finished with the noose now, and as soon as I can get it looped over the shower rod you guys won't have me to kick around any more. I deserve nothing less than to rot slowly until the smell alerts the neighbors and I'm finally cut down. You guys are good. I am so not worthy. Goodbye - I know I won't even be missed in AAF because the recent golden contributions of you 'Vette guys more than covers for my worthless bleatings. You have done a tremendous amount of good for the world in a very short time; you should be proud. Those Porsche runtlings can only dream of one day being as dominating and fearsome as you. MC > Thanks, Ball ... "Dad", and the rest blah blah blah Sarcasm instead of value adding? I am disappointed. If you came into a Corvette group and asked what folks thought of the Corvette product because they were interested in a used one, you would have folks lining up to share experiences with their cars. Everything from the 1950's through present. Shame on you, MC. You had an opportunity to add to the Ferrari fan base and your superiority complex caused you to send curious folks away. Moving on - if any Ferrari owners would be willing to share their ownership experiences with some American car owners, it would be appreciated. Some folks are thinking about getting Mondial's, 308/328's, or perhaps some other model that can be purchased in the $30K to $70K range. Happy Chanukah to all in the Corvette and Ferrari group. Don't forget to watch ALMS next year. ALMS needs more viewers or it may fail, like CART is doing. Ferrari races in GT and GTS class. In GTS they race the 550 and 575, which is the class dominated by C5R. In GT class they race the 360 and 550, which has done extremely well against Porsche. The best class is P900, which is dominated by $1.5 million dollar Audis. Cadillac had a new $1.8 million dollar car that was to compete with Audi, but they did not run often last year. GM may be thinking of canceling that race car. P900 and P675 look quite a bit like F1 or IRL, IMHO. > Sarcasm instead of value adding? I am disappointed. If you came into a > Corvette group and asked what folks thought of the Corvette product because > they were interested in a used one, you would have folks lining up to share > experiences with their cars. Everything from the 1950's through present. > Shame on you, MC. You had an opportunity to add to the Ferrari fan base > and your superiority complex caused you to send curious folks away. To be honest, Cal - you *were* right. I had nothing of value to add, not being an owner of either vehicle, and I picked a fight, so ... no need for you to be disappointed because I really had no business being in that conversation in the first place. It had started with a little harmless repartee between Larry and I - and truthfully he and I didn't exactly start out exchanging rose bouquets when we first crossed Usenet paths either. However, I would like to say that for many years I have been a very excellent research source/tool for AAF. Before I went on disability I worked in IT for 18 years - and among my other ... "personal enhancements" I'm obsessive compulsive - so I wield Google like Bruce Lee with the nunchucks. I am usually the first to jump to assistance, but sometimes there's a hitch in my giddyup and I throw a hairball or two. I'm much better now than I used to be, during the days when death threats rained and sanity was only a goal. But I doubt if I "sent anybody away". I wish I had that much power. > Don't forget to watch ALMS next year. ALMS needs more viewers or it may > fail, like CART is doing. Ferrari races in GT and GTS class. In GTS they [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > but they did not run often last year. GM may be thinking of canceling that > race car. P900 and P675 look quite a bit like F1 or IRL, IMHO. I haven't missed a sports car race on SPEED in a couple years. ALMS, Rolex, SPEED World Challenge, and FIA (among others) are all required viewing in my house. And remember, I love Corvettes. I don't put them in the same class as Ferraris - just my opinion, I now disclaim - but the very first "FAST" ride I ever had in my life was in my Uncle Ray's '66 Stingray, and after that I was a car nut for life. For the longest time I daydreamed that someday I would find a long-lost Gran Sport under a tarp in some farmer's barn and he would let me have it if I could find some friends to help "get the durned thing outta here". I don't mind being dissed, not at all and especially if I deserve it. I admit I am not handy with a wrench or under-the-hood analysis and discussion. But I'm no simpleton, and I reserve my right to speak freely on these boards. Regardless of how stupid I may sound at times. And that's that about that. MC > And remember, I love Corvettes. I don't put them in the same class as > Ferraris - just my opinion, I would call a modern Ferrari an exotic car, and only a loon would tell me I was way off the mark. I would call my Z06 a purpose built, world class sports car. I would never try to compare an exotic car to a sports car anywhere but a track. An exotic is usually hand built in small numbers, is as much an artistic and aesthetic product as anything else, performs like a world class sports car, and is sought after. That, in a word, is Ferrari. The first of the great exotics. They have won a ton of races, and have a storied racing history. On the other side of the Atlantic Ocean is Chevrolet; which has thousands of SCCA, NA$CAR, NHRA, and IHRA wins. Now to be fair, Ferrari is in a different class of racing for the most part, and I dare not compare the quality of a $4M F1 Ferrari with a $1M NA$CAR ride or a $200K SCCA ride. But, to an American, a Chevrolet Corvette is an exciting part of our USA racing heritage. Recently, Chevrolet decided to be competitive to European sports cars. The result of that is the Chevrolet Z06. The Z06 has a 0-60 of under 4 seconds, a standing quarter mile time of 12.4 seconds, a top speed of 180 MPH, and a lateral acceleration of 1.02. If you compare it to a Ferrari 360 Modena; you will see that they are within a hair of each other in all of those benchmarks. From a technology standpoint, the Z06 has an onboard computer system that is more complex than the Apollo lunar systems that put man on the moon, including a complex set of integral accelerometers that actively take all kinds of telemetry and other information and make split second decisions about controlling each individual braking system and adjustable suspension component. Z06 has the best horsepower to weight ratio of any normally aspirated engine available, even better than the Dodge Viper V10 engine. From a money standpoint, a Lingenfelter or Calloway are as rare (and expensive) as a Ferrari, and can outperform one. So, to some extent you can probably group them together in a few categories. Gotta run - wife says it's bed time. Enjoy what is left of the weekend. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 > I would call a modern Ferrari an exotic car, and only a loon would tell me > I was way off the mark. I would call my Z06 a purpose built, world class [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > (and expensive) as a Ferrari, and can outperform one. So, to some > extent you can probably group them together in a few categories. Good post, Hobbes. Driving a Taurus wagon to your job stocking shelves at > Piggly Wiggly is not helpful Neither is this type of posting. I started this, so please accept my apology to both groups, and let's drop it.> > You're wrong, Ball. I almost never cross-post. And I'll discontinue it > in this case, too, after this post. What started out as an earnest bit > of fact-finding by Larry has again (yawn) become the usual "mine is > better than yours" pile of crap that middle-aged men with playtoys can't > seem to grow out of. My fault, entirely. Sorry to start any flames. It was truly not my intention. I just like both marques, and will be committing limited funds to one OR the other, so I was collecting experiences. Wasn't looking to start a "mine is better than yours" exchange. > My fault, entirely. Sorry to start any flames. It was truly not my > intention. I just like both marques, and will be committing limited funds > to one OR the other, so I was collecting experiences. Wasn't looking to > start a "mine is better than yours" exchange. You didn't start anything - you've pretty much had a singular (and clearly-stated) interest right from the start. Don't worry about the spawn - happens all the time. I'm pretty volatile *and* an excellent typist - a TERRIBLE combination! I'm so damn fast and accurate that my posts are usually already lighting somebody's hair on fire by the time I realize they could have used an edit. Everybody likes the chance to serve some whupass to somebody else, so I'm glad to hand out the opportunities. Yesterday Cal got his. After 14 years on the Internet they could build a Terminator out of my skin. MC > > Smells to me like "Corvette costs less with *somewhat > > similar* performance, = better value, therefore = better than [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cars in question. Oh, and mouth breather - C5R yet again this year beat > Ferrari in ALMS GTS class. But thanks for playing. First off..... it's my fault that this thread was ever cross-posted to start with. So I'll take the flames if there need to be any. Second off.....both groups make excellent points.... Ferrari for the "feeling" it represents that is unequalled, Corvette for the amazing amount of performance in a real world daily driver that manhy of us can afford. Sorry I precipitated this, I wasn't looking to create a flame war. I would be happy to go back to Bowling Green, just detach this from alt.autos.corvette on your next reply if you're afraid to answer a simple question like what I ask. Had nothing to do with "Corvette costs less with *somewhat similar* > performance, = better value, therefore = better than Ferrari". it has everything to do with how each car is used. Sorry you don't have enough back bone to support your automobile choice. Sounds like you have your mind made up that Corvette owners are wrong before you even try to come up with a legitimate answer. My point was, and still is, that of the Corvettes I owned 5 of them left me with over 100,000 miles on them, only car, winter driven (great lakes area), every day that they were needed. Of the nine I owned I was never into any of the engines, and only one of the transmissions during my drag racing days. I had one that was a true lemon, that wouldn't stay out of the shop. Was your Grail made of Styrofoam? No wonder you put it in your back pocket. SignatureDad 98 C5 Black/Black/Auto 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd > > > >>Just curious, how many Ferrari owners out there with 250,000 miles on [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > MC >> No way I would beat the living crap out of an F355 at my local track. >> Those cars cannot handle the beating like a Z06 can. > > You think a Chevy can take more abuse than a Ferrari? Heck yes it can. I have owned both. More than one of them, in fact. Beat on a Ferrari, and it's off to the dealer for $10K worth of work. What percentage of Ferrari's have 100K+ miles? If you put 100K miles on a Ferrari, it's a miracle *AND* the car is beat beyond being able to run. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 > >> No way I would beat the living crap out of an F355 at my local track. > >> Those cars cannot handle the beating like a Z06 can. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > percentage of Ferrari's have 100K+ miles? If you put 100K miles on a > Ferrari, it's a miracle *AND* the car is beat beyond being able to run. Oh how I pity the uninformed. As a Ferrari Club of America member I have seen many Ferrari's run well past 100,000 miles. Here in the Midwest we have a particular 328 with 134,000 on the original engine, a compression test showed less than 2% leakdown in each cylinder and he still runs it on the track with us. The reason there are bad Ferraris out there is because people stretch their budget on the cars, they can afford to buy it, but not to maintain it. The Corvette is not a bad car per se, but, in no way shape or form is it in the same stratosphere as Ferrari at this point in time. Last, please get out of your 150K Chevy Engine dream world. With your old technology and cheaper parts, comes quicker wear due to heat and friction. It's cheaper for a reason. Top quality metals and parts cost. Cheap is cheap. You may run 150K , but you will be passing oil by 80K and lot's by 100K. > Oh how I pity the uninformed. As a Ferrari Club of America member I > have seen many Ferrari's run well past 100,000 miles. Here in the > Midwest we have a particular 328 with 134,000 on the original engine, > a compression test showed less than 2% leakdown in each cylinder and > he still runs it on the track with us. I have personally owned C3's with over 150K miles, and know people with over 250K miles on their corvettes. >The reason there are bad > Ferraris out there is because people stretch their budget on the > cars, they can afford to buy it, but not to maintain it. That is a fair point, but an extensive tune-up on a Ferrari can often cost more than putting a brand new motor in a Corvette. In fact, Ferrari of Atlanta charged $10,000 for the 30K mile service on my 1989 Testarossa. For $10K, you can get a brand new crate motor and transmission for a 1989 Corvette. > The Corvette > is not a bad car per se, but, in no way shape or form is it in the > same stratosphere as Ferrari at this point in time. In what regard? Corvette C5R and Ferrari 550 and 360 go head to head 11 times per year in ALMS GTS class. C5R has beaten Ferrari the last 5 years in a row. > Last, please get > out of your 150K Chevy Engine dream world. With your old technology > and cheaper parts, comes quicker wear due to heat and friction. Then why does a Chevrolet 350 typically run about 175K miles before needing a rebuild or replacement? > It's > cheaper for a reason. Top quality metals and parts cost. Cheap is > cheap. You may run 150K , but you will be passing oil by 80K and > lot's by 100K. Bullshit. A Chevy 350 running synthetic oil will not push oil at 80K miles. In fact, nowadays Chevrolet does not even recommend a tune-up and spark plugs until 100K miles. There must be somewhere that shows the average mileage expectancy of Ferrari and Chevrolet. I believe the reason Ferrari is so expensive is that they are hand built with love, and Chevrolet is a p roduction line cranking out 50K cars per year. Not better parts, just the assembly line and quantity makes Chevrolet less expensive. Signature________________________________ Klecko's Komrades. All the way in 2003 > I believe the reason Ferrari > is so expensive is that they are hand built with love, and Chevrolet is a p > roduction line cranking out 50K cars per year. There's hope for you after all. > That is a fair point, but an extensive tune-up on a Ferrari can often cost > more than putting a brand new motor in a Corvette. Right, Ferraris have always been a cutting edge car, leading the field with state of the art technology, engine design and all the hand down's from Ferrari racing know how. Obviously when you have a car like this it will cost more to maintain, but does that make it a shitty car? No. I have a 1983 308 GTS QV, I've owned it for a little better than six years now. If I added up all my receipts, they would total about $5500 dollars, which isn't cheap, but in return the car has never let me down, left me stranded and always performed to the highest degree. > In fact, Ferrari of > Atlanta charged $10,000 for the 30K mile service on my 1989 Testarossa. For > $10K, you can get a brand new crate motor and transmission for a 1989 > Corvette. In previous discussions you stated your wife had a TR, and now it was yours? Please stick to one story..Besides, I'd rather spend 10,000 dollars on my Ferrari flat twelve than a Chevrolet crate engine and transmission.. > In what regard? Corvette C5R and Ferrari 550 and 360 go head to head 11 > times per year in ALMS GTS class. C5R has beaten Ferrari the last 5 years > in a row. This is a loaded question! Ferrari dominates F1, that is what they put all their emphasis on. I don't follow this series, so I might be wrong, but, the Ferrari ALMS are a non-factory backed team, the Corvette is. > Then why does a Chevrolet 350 typically run about 175K miles before needing > a rebuild or replacement? I dont think it does! Unless you can prove otherwise, i'm going to write this off as subjective bullshit. . > Not better parts, just the > assembly line and quantity makes Chevrolet less expensive Less expensive? Yes..for a reason...cheaper parts. This is easily seen in the test of time. Older Ferraris remain intact and immaculate, with the interiors and bodies holding up to like new condition. Older Corvettes are usually beat to hell with bits and pieces of the interior falling off the car, crate engines to replace the oil eating dinosaur under the hood that quit running at 80k and resale value that anyone could afford with piggy bank change. Now, go sit in a 360 or 575M and tell me the Corvette interior is up to par with the Ferrari. You keep harping on the "reliability" issue. Since when has GM been known as reliable? CR downgraded the Corvette it based on the black mark for "reliability". Hint: with Consumer Reports, black is bad. CR also said that the Corvette "fit and finish are unimpressive for a $50,000 car". Quality parts indeed. This has turned into such a ridiculous thread, I can't believe I got suckered into it. Ferrari is one of the most evocative names in motor sports, they have a racing heritage second to none. Some of the best designs in the world have come from this marque, and everyone one of them is an engineering masterpiece. Ferrari is a world class company, widely regarded as making the ultimate sports cars, racing cars and dream machines. Your Corvette may produce similar numbers to Ferrari's entry level car, but it is nothing but a meaningless piece of plastic that rolls off an assembly line. You can rant all you want...you and the rest of your Vette brethren, no matter how fast your cars go or how much European engineering you incorporate...you will always be seen as a second class citizen. I know that pisses you off (just read your posts) but it is reality. Now go back over to the Corvette group and talk about your car. If you have something constructive to add here, feel free. If not...go away. > Right, Ferraris have always been a cutting edge car, leading the > field with state of the art technology, engine design and all the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > has never let me down, left me stranded and always performed to the > highest degree. And my C5's have never left me stranded, nor did my C4. And I would never consider a Ferrari a shitty car - I love Ferrari's. > In previous discussions you stated your wife had a TR, and now it was > yours? Please stick to one story..Besides, I'd rather spend 10,000 > dollars on my Ferrari flat twelve than a Chevrolet crate engine and > transmission.. Well, yes - truth be known it really is hers. But I do pay all the bills, her cars and other toys included. So, I don't feel unjustified for taking some credit for some of her cars or calling them mine. And we do drive each other's vehicles; though she does not drive my 700 HP Z06; which is really just for the track nowadays. > This is a loaded question! Ferrari dominates F1, that is what they > put all their emphasis on. I don't follow this series, so I might be > wrong, but, the Ferrari ALMS are a non-factory backed team, the > Corvette is. That is correct. But Ferrari spends more money than Corvette C5R Racing. In fact, Ferrari spends the most money, followed by C5R, then Viper, and at the bottom is Saleen. >> Then why does a Chevrolet 350 typically run about 175K miles before >> needing a rebuild or replacement? > > I dont think it does! Unless you can prove otherwise, i'm going to > write this off as subjective bullshit. Actually, it't not subjective crap. I was doing a bunch of internet reading because of another discussion about engine life a few months ago, and Chevrolet listed the life expectancy before rebuild of a 4 bolt main small block as 175,000 miles with standard use. > Less expensive? Yes..for a reason...cheaper parts. This is easily > seen in the test of time. Older Ferraris remain intact and > immaculate, with the interiors and bodies holding up to like new > condition. Could be price. If you spend $150K on something you will treat it with care; more so than if you pay $40K for it. I think folks just treat a Corvette as a run of the mill car and beat on it and neglect it like they would a Taurus. > Older Corvettes are usually beat to hell with bits and > pieces of the interior falling off the car, crate engines to replace > the oil eating dinosaur under the hood that quit running at 80k and > resale value that anyone could afford with piggy bank change. Now, go > sit in a 360 or 575M and tell me the Corvette interior is up to par > with the Ferrari. Not a chance of it being up to par. I have not been in a 575 or 550, but I have driven the 360 and it was far superior to the Z06 interior. So was my buddy's F355. In fact, that was the nicest car I have ever driven, bar none. I even was on a waiting list with Ferrari of Atlanta on a 360 two years ago, and took my name off because I just could not justify the cost compared to how much I would use it. I have yet to even put 4K miles on a C5 in a single year, and my 2000 cabin cruiser has all of 50 hours on it. I do a lot of consulting, and need to be near my computer and high speed internet access when not at a client. Hard to do while out on a boat or joy riding in my car. So my toys do not get much use. > You keep harping on the "reliability" issue. Since when has GM been > known as reliable? CR downgraded the Corvette it based on the black > mark for "reliability". Hint: with Consumer Reports, black is bad. CR > also said that the Corvette "fit and finish are unimpressive for a > $50,000 car". Quality parts indeed. They were not happy with the plastic interior. Chevy spent all the money on the motor/drivetrain, active handling involving computers and accelerometers, etc.; not on the interior. I cannot speak to CR's reliability issue, but my 98, 01, and 03 Corvettes have never once stranded me. Perhaps high mileage is not kind to them, but mine have been perfectly fine. But do we buy sports cars for nice leather or wood grain finish? I buy them to go fast and corner well. My Z06 is as fast and corners as well as a Modena, and a quarter of the cost of ownership. I won't tell you they are the same animal, but on the track a Z06 can (and does) beat a Modena. > This has turned into such a ridiculous thread, I can't believe I got > suckered into it. Ferrari is one of the most evocative names in motor [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > will always be seen as a second class citizen. I know that pisses you > off (just read your posts) but it is reality. I am not upset that the car is not as nice as the Ferrari in some respects. And what technology do you keep referring to with regard to streetable Ferrari's that Chevrolet is not using in the Z06? GM is using state of the art active handling systems, latest technology suspension and handling design, Fiberglas has long since been replaced with carbon fibre and other lightweight technologies, and the drivetrain is made by one of the most respected transmission companies in the world, Tremec. Tremec is not only in the Z06, but in the TVR Tuscan and TVR Cerbera. I don't know how much you know about exotic cars, but the TVR Cerbera is a $300K Lemans ready racer. It's quite beautiful, and I would say it was in the same league as a 575 Maranello or 465M GTA. > Now go back over to the Corvette group and talk about your car. If > you have something constructive to add here, feel free. If not...go > away. I am in the Corvette group. Check the newsgroup header. Notice the "alt.autos.corvette"? > I am not upset that the car is not as nice as the Ferrari in some respects. > And what technology do you keep referring to with regard to streetable [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > racer. It's quite beautiful, and I would say it was in the same league as > a 575 Maranello or 465M GTA. I have always loved TVRs - but funny thing, they are not known for reliability at all. In fact, most automotive writers rave about TVRs precisely for their "throwback" aura. Among other things, they've a reputation for dash rattles and screws and bolts that fall out of places nobody can locate ... overheating .... problems with brake systems and electrics. That said, those same writers cannot stop heaping the praise on these cars because of the way they sound, the way they drive, their brutal nature. Anybody hear the word "passion" surfacing again? (I agree that the Cerbera - being the latest model, I believe - is a pretty damn advanced auto, though) MC You have you head in a big hole. SignatureDad 98 C5 Black/Black/Auto 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd > > > >> No way I would beat the living crap out of an F355 at my local track. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > cheap. You may run 150K , but you will be passing oil by 80K and lot's by > 100K. Guess again. I have over 100K on mine and it doesn't leak or use any oil between changes. And when I bought my Dino 246 GT in 74, it ran like a dream and it didn't leak any oil either through out the 50K I put on it. I've considered getting another Ferrari, but if I do, I'll probably look for another Dino 246 GT. I had a 308 for a short time and it was alright, but just didn't feel like being see as Magnum PI......<g> > > >> No way I would beat the living crap out of an F355 at my local track. > > >> Those cars cannot handle the beating like a Z06 can. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > cheap. You may run 150K , but you will be passing oil by 80K and lot's by > 100K. <<How much is "mystique" really worth in dollars and cents?>> Ferrari is much more than that and it can't be measured in dollars and cents. Either you get it or you don't. If all you want is a fun car to go out and pretend you're some bad a.s race car driver in, then buy a Vette. If you want and can afford a Ferrari, then buy one and don't go looking to justify it to anyone. I mean, don't deprive your kids of a college education or anything, but if you can keep the family above the poverty level and own one of these cars for a time, then just do it. C. >http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=7565 Hardly a surprise; The GT's got tons more displacement and a supercharger, and Ford spends millions on ad pages in C&D, Ferrari do not. > http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=7565 Why do I keep getting reminded of the 60's C&D article that had the Pontiac GTO "beating" the Ferrari GTO in a rather optimistic comparo whenever I see people mentioning this article? ;-) I actually do like the GT to an extent, but it does take the retro theme a tad too far IMHO. Ciao Zak -- ======================================================================== http://www.carfolio.com/ Searchable database of 10 000+ car specs Auctioning motoring-related items at eBay? http://www.carfolio.com/ebay/ ======================================================================== |
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