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Car Forum / Ferrari Cars / September 2004one man's opinion
I have a good friend, a podiatrist who happens to really like German cars, and this is what he had to say about the new M5. I didn't even know they were available for test drives, even released by the factory yet. I trust his judgement and I am kind of disappointed. from the friend: "I test drove one about a month ago....not impressed at all. It's priced about $20K more than I would ever consider paying for it. Quality of the interior isn't even close to what you'd expect in a $70K+ car. The car I drove had the SMG transmission, which is the biggest joke ever....I can't believe people actually pay a $3K+ premium to have that gearbox. The downshifts are nice and smooth, but the entire car pauses and lurches with each upshift. No thanks." MC > I have a good friend, a podiatrist who happens to really like German > cars, and this is what he had to say about the new M5. I didn't even [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > MC I think your friend drove a 545i Sport. I don't believe the new M5 exists yet, and when it does, it will be in the $100,000 plus range, and have a ten cylinder, according to reports. > I think your friend drove a 545i Sport. I don't believe the new M5 > exists yet, and when it does, it will be in the $100,000 plus range, and > have a ten cylinder, according to reports. You know, I think the article I sent him also mentioned the 645ci, so maybe that's the one he drove. I queried him on it. I really like the look of the 645ci as well, as I previously mentioned. But, lest anyone think I'm drifting towards Stuttgart, fear not. I'd take any Ferrari, and will own one first, before any other sports car. I love sports cars, period, but I swoon over Ferraris. MC > > I think your friend drove a 545i Sport. I don't believe the new M5 > > exists yet, and when it does, it will be in the $100,000 plus range, and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > MC Somehow I didn't think you had given up your "affection" for the Ferrari marque. : - ) > Somehow I didn't think you had given up your "affection" for the Ferrari > marque. : - ) Not a chance. They were the first to ever really "catch my eye" as a child, and I never lost sight ... MC > But, lest anyone think I'm drifting towards Stuttgart, fear not. Bimmers are from Munich - Mercs come from Stuttgart - ya definitly don't want to drift anywhere near there! I. >>But, lest anyone think I'm drifting towards Stuttgart, fear not. > > Bimmers are from Munich - Mercs come from Stuttgart - ya definitly don't > want to drift anywhere near there! > > I. Munich ... Stuttgart ... Zuffenhausen. Ja ja ja - ich weiß von ihnen alle. Just got my lines crossed. The fact is, I like Mercedes cars as well, some of them anyway, OK the AMG "big boys", the CL 55 and SL 55. I like those a lot. I always liked that E500 "Hammer". And I like the SLR. But they're not Ferraris. > Munich ... Stuttgart ... Zuffenhausen. Ja ja ja - ich wei? von ihnen > alle. Just got my lines crossed. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > But they're not Ferraris. ...and these days they fall to bits faster than any Ferrari (!) I. >The fact is, I like Mercedes cars as well, some of them anyway, OK the >AMG "big boys", the CL 55 and SL 55. I like those a lot. I always >liked that E500 "Hammer". And I like the SLR. > >But they're not Ferraris. No, they are Chryslers. ;-) Phil >>The fact is, I like Mercedes cars as well, some of them anyway, OK the >>AMG "big boys", the CL 55 and SL 55. I like those a lot. I always [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >No, they are Chryslers. There was a day you could properly say they were the best Chevies mankind could build. ...Now? Not even decent Volkswagens. >>The fact is, I like Mercedes cars as well, some of them anyway, OK the >>AMG "big boys", the CL 55 and SL 55. I like those a lot. I always [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Phil I would hazard a guess that most would say all Chryslers are Benzes! (or Daimlers, anyway). MC > >The fact is, I like Mercedes cars as well, some of them anyway, OK the > >AMG "big boys", the CL 55 and SL 55. I like those a lot. I always [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Phil Which is like saying that Ferraris are Fiats. >> >The fact is, I like Mercedes cars as well, some of them anyway, OK the >> >AMG "big boys", the CL 55 and SL 55. I like those a lot. I always [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Which is like saying that Ferraris are Fiats. If you understood the corporate structures involved in both cases you would know that your statement is incorrect. Phil > >> >The fact is, I like Mercedes cars as well, some of them anyway, OK the > >> >AMG "big boys", the CL 55 and SL 55. I like those a lot. I always [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Phil Do you own a Mercedes? I do. Have you owned a Chrysler? I have. I don't need to understand the corporate structure of Fiat to know that a Ferrari and a Fiat are not the same vehicle. But then, I don't need to understand the corporate structure of Daimler-Chrysler to know that a Mercedes and a Chrysler aren't the same car. And you have no idea of how much I do or don't know about the corporate structure of either of them/ Or that it your statement was intended to be derisive of some fine vehicles. But then that's just "one man's opinion". >>>>>The fact is, I like Mercedes cars as well, some of them anyway, OK the >>>>>AMG "big boys", the CL 55 and SL 55. I like those a lot. I always [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > But then that's just "one man's opinion". Larry, Larry ... (that is you, isn't it Larry?) Phil did not mean that in a derisive manner, I'm almost certain of it. My God ... the day that I become the mediator in this group is a sad day indeed. Would y'all just stop it? I am the one who screams, yells, cuts, slams, derides, curses, reduces to a shambles, profanes, insults, threatens, etc. Not anybody else. From now on this rule is to be followed by all of you. This is to be the one place that is absolutely a heaven on earth - unless I deign to change the weather or we are attacked by hostiles. Am I clear? Do we need to bring Dr. Phil in here? That fat bastard. I want to kick his a.s. MC > Larry, Larry ... (that is you, isn't it Larry?) Phil did not mean that > in a derisive manner, I'm almost certain of it. Yup.... it's me. Changed the nom de plume to match the change in cars. I was a bit touchy last night. I may have taken Phil's comments incorrectly. If so, I apologize. > My God ... the day that I become the mediator in this group is a sad day > indeed. Would y'all just stop it? I am the one who screams, yells, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a heaven on earth - unless I deign to change the weather or we are > attacked by hostiles. I found that after 27 years of trial work, that I really don't care for arguing off the job. Maybe my change in careers a couple of years ago has left me without an appropriate outlet for my need to argue. I'll watch it. I really don't care for internet flame wars. I figure it's better to turn off the machine and go do something. I do note that I was petulant last evening. > Am I clear? Do we need to bring Dr. Phil in here? That fat bastard. I > want to kick his a.s. I have assiduously avoided Dr. Phil. I find him a waste of time. > MC > I do note that I was petulant last > evening. I love that word. I like being petulant from time to time. It suits me. MC MC wrote... >I love that word. I like being petulant from time to time. It suits me. "OOOH, suits YOU sir, suits you!!" T308 (Who's reminded of his favorite Muhammed Ali quote. Howard Cosell said to Ali, "Muhammad, you're being truculent" Ali responded, "Howard, I don't know what truculent means, but if it's good, i'm that.") >> >> >But they're not Ferraris. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Do you own a Mercedes? I do. Have you owned a Chrysler? I have. I've owned Chryslers - I have three kids, you can't do without a Chrysler when you have children. I have not owned a Mercedes, my best friend has, he swears by them. Interesting though, as he drives down the road pieces of the plastic interior fall off, but he still loves them. Whatever. I don't care for them. I've owned BMWs - 3 series and 7 series - wonderful cars. BMWs are today what Mercedes was in the 70s and early 80s - the premier, highest quality sports sedans available. However, they have become overpriced, to the point that I question when it will end. But I suppose as long as people can afford monthly lease payments, it won't end and BMW prices will continue to rise. They have no competitors, so what's to stop them???? >I don't need to understand the corporate structure of Fiat to know that a >Ferrari and a Fiat are not the same vehicle. Very well said. >But then, I don't need to >understand the corporate structure of Daimler-Chrysler to know that a >Mercedes and a Chrysler aren't the same car. Mercedes and Chryslers were not the same cars in 1998, they are moving towards congruence today. Here's a bit of an article I read about the DC Crossfire: "If you do, I'd advise you to go elsewhere, because the parts-bin rummage doesn't stop there ? the Crossfire also borrows the SLK's platform, suspension and drivetrain, as well as a few other odds and sods. Just to further confuse matters, neither Mercedes nor Chrysler builds it: the German coachbuilder Karmann does that. Which raises the question: is this a mongrel or a pedigree? It's certainly very nicely screwed together, which is a tribute to the German connection. While its (Mercedes-Benz) 3?2-litre, V6 engine is a little light on power at 215bhp, it's pretty refined all the way to an indicated maximum speed of 155mph and accelerates with a curiously languorous conviction. It's solid and stiff, too, with a chassis that majors on grip rather than agility. And if its packaging is pretty poor (another SLK-sourced legacy), well at least it means you wear the car rather than simply sitting in it." Sounds like the MB and Chrysler brands share more and more common components and platforms. Can you say "Chevy Monte Carlo, Pontiac Gran Prix, Buick Regal and Old Cutlass"??? > And you have no idea of how >much I do or don't know about the corporate structure of either of them/ Nor do I care. >Or that it your statement was intended to be derisive of some fine vehicles. My statement was a cynical response to a previous statement made that I don't recall. Cynical in that it was meant for fun (see the "wink" I included) but was yet truthful (see the quote above). Anyway, my next family car won't be a DC, the kids are growing up and we won't need a minivan too much longer. In less than two years when my older guy starts driving, he can shuffle his brothers around. I got a hankering for a pickup, maybe I'll move over to Ford. The Ferrari remains part of the family, probably added to at some point by either a 410/412 or 308GT4 - both cars I luv lots. In the immediate future.....something with two wheels..... Phil > >> >> >But they're not Ferraris. > >> >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > monthly lease payments, it won't end and BMW prices will continue to > rise. They have no competitors, so what's to stop them???? Different experiences color our impressions. My 1988 BMW 325i cabriolet literally blew its engine through the hood when a cam belt died at 38,000 miles. That was the last "ultimate driving machine" for me. I know they are great cars, but I can't overcome the distrust. My 1999 S Class Mercedes has the feeling of invincibility. Double thick windows, slab sides, major weight, cavernous interior. It is MAJOR BORING as a driving machine, but feels sturdy. If my ego could take the comments, I'd trade it in for a Subaru WRX STI hatchback or wagon, in four wheel drive. Or a Lexus RX330 SUV. Something with some go, 4 wheel drive for snow country winters. I use my sports car as my daily driver unless I'm carrying people anyway. Our four kids are all old enough now that they have their own cars, so the "soccer mom, baseball dad" syndrome is over, car-wise. Everyone ultimately borrows from either their own Ford/Jaguar, Volkswagon/Lamborghini, Daimler-Chysler parts bins for economy. Look at the Ferrari engine is the Masaerati coupes ( and now the Quattraporte?) as a way to bring the Masaerati marque back into focus. And so on. > >Or that it your statement was intended to be derisive of some fine vehicles. > > My statement was a cynical response to a previous statement made that > I don't recall. Cynical in that it was meant for fun (see the "wink" > I included) but was yet truthful (see the quote above). OK We've bored each other enough on that. > Anyway, my next family car won't be a DC, the kids are growing up and > we won't need a minivan too much longer. In less than two years when [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > either a 410/412 or 308GT4 - both cars I luv lots. In the immediate > future.....something with two wheels..... I've been working my way throught the Testarossa to the 355 to the 328. I have two personal goals to meet next year, and if I meet them, my first Ferrari enters the garage. If I don't, then it's another year. When you're ready for something on two wheels, let's compare notes. LWallerstein@REMOVEbtcommercial.com I've put a couple hundred thousand miles on motorcycles since 1966, and have owned pretty much something from every marque except Harley, Polaris, Victory and the heavy cruiser world. But sports, dirt, race, dual purpose and so on I've owned an ridden. I'm off now. Tired of healing. Worried about the one where I won't heal. But still addicted to the motorcycles. Larry > Phil >I've been working my way throught the Testarossa to the 355 to the 328. I >have two personal goals to meet next year, and if I meet them, my first >Ferrari enters the garage. If I don't, then it's another year. Good luck, I hope you achieve your goals. The 355 is some great car, and is the Ferrari I would love to acheive one day. The 328 is a great car, timeless looks, and a refinement that sort of smooths out the agressiveness and rawness of the 308. The TR is fat pig, too wide, too heavy, symbol of 80's decadence. But if you ask me next month, I'll probably tell you how much I like it. I go back and forth with the TR. >When you're ready for something on two wheels, let's compare notes. Trying the figure in my head if the Harley is worth the money, because for a 1/3 the cost, you get a Yamaha VStar that looks and performs nearly identically. Phil > Trying the figure in my head if the Harley is worth the money, because > for a 1/3 the cost, you get a Yamaha VStar that looks and performs > nearly identically. It depends on what you're after. I've ridden the Fatboy for a day, and the FXDX Sport for a couple of hours. If the cruising position, with feet out in front of you, is something that you like, then a Fatboy, with Screaming Eagle exhausts, S&S engine makeover, for about $25,000 is a very nice motorcycle. If you want something in a cruiser that corners a bit better, but still with the Harley cachet, then an FXDX Sport, with the feet down position, and more ground clearance is very nice. You can rent a Harley for a day (I did in Hawaii) and put in 300 miles or so, in order to get a good feeling for it. I also suggest that you try a Triumph Tiger, or a BMW R1200 GS for comfortable motorcycles with a bit better handling than either the Harley or the VStar. And while this doesn't have Cruiser "cool", you might also try a Honda Goldwing, which is fantastically comfortable, and a good performer for its size, as well, or the Honda ST 1200. Harley is an experience, and a membership in a cult (not unlike Ducatis, or Ferraris) I'd try it on for size, and see if it fits you. Also, if you are a Ferrari owner or fan, then you MUST try a few Ducatis. The ST4 would be closest to the type of cruiser you are thinking of getting (but still far away) or a Monster. I've owned the Monster, and a sport bike 900 SS from Ducati, and if I went back to motorcycles, I'd go back to Ducati over Harley or any other. But this really comes down to personal preference. You should try them all, and see how you FEEL while riding. Best of luck on your choice, and if you want more feedback, you can get me off group at LWallerstein (REMOVE) @btcommercial.com And if you think you've ever owned a FAST car, try a Honda CBR 1000 RR, or Suzuiki GSXR 1000 K3 or K4. 0 to 60 in 2.6 or so can be quite an eye opener, if you can keep the front wheel down. Regards, Larry Nobody suggests a Guzzi..? :-( -Matt- "It's a sickness I have..." matt borland <mborland@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message news:7nu0d.7953$_z4.5884@fe1.columbus.rr.com... > Nobody suggests a Guzzi..? All of the downside of Ducati repair bills, with 1/2 the handling. Plus, you REALLY have to like their paint jobs. I'll take a Ducati over a Motoguzzi every time. Sort of like a Ferrari and a Lamborghini....... oh, wait, I'm crossing threads, never mind. > :-( > > -Matt- "It's a sickness I have..." > matt borland <mborland@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message > news:7nu0d.7953$_z4.5884@fe1.columbus.rr.com... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you REALLY have to like their paint jobs. > I'll take a Ducati over a Motoguzzi every time. Whoa, hold on there... The owner can do his own valve adjustments on a Guzzi, in very little time, as the cylinders jut out the sides. Cheaper to fix than a Ducati any day. Plus the engines last forever. The quality is much better these past few, okay couple years. Still sketchy electrics, but much better than before. I agree on 1/2 the handling... The Ducs are sexier by far, but the Guzzis resonate with me somehow. My computer wallpaper has featured several bikes from each make. > Sort of like a Ferrari and a Lamborghini....... oh, wait, I'm crossing > threads, never mind. AAAAAAARRRGH!!!!! I prefer to think of Moto Guzzi as the Alfa Romeo or Maserati of motorcycles, as they do have a successful racing history, unlike Lambourghini. Of course there is the "tractor" connection, but the Guzzi twin was actually originally conceived for a Fiat automobile, not a tractor. Bah. What do I know, I ride a CB350... -Matt- "...and I love the little bike." matt borland <mborland@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message news:6aM0d.1764$MG3.431@fe2.columbus.rr.com... > Bah. What do I know, I ride a CB350... I started on a 305 Dream. My next several motorcycles were CB 350, 450, 550 four, and 750. Probablly one of the best lines of motorcycles in their day of any. A few years ago Honda was producing a CB-1, which paid homage to the CB line. I think their current 919 does as well. You have a fine motorcycle there. If I'm allowed to say that about anything Japanese in this NG >You have a fine motorcycle there. If I'm allowed to say that about anything Japanese in > this NG AAAARGH!!!! BURN HIM SOME MORE !!! MCPDucati > matt borland <mborland@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message > news:6aM0d.1764$MG3.431@fe2.columbus.rr.com... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > motorcycle there. If I'm allowed to say that about anything Japanese in > this NG I knew a guy with a 305 Dream, and also one with a CB-1. Cool bikes, they both wish they hadn't sold them now... I may end up keeping the old CB350 when I get another bike and modifying it for track use. I can't think of an easier bike to work on and the parts are readily available. Plus it helps living just a few miles from a shop whose owner races CB350s. -Matt- "..." <<If I'm allowed to say that about anything Japanese in this NG>> THIS was a stupid thing to say. C. > <<If I'm allowed to say that about anything Japanese in this NG>> > > THIS was a stupid thing to say. > > C. Hey, what are you doing in THIS thread? Don't you have enough to insult me about in that other thread? So how would you compare an NSX to a 355 anyway? <<So how would you compare an NSX to a 355 anyway?>> Why would I? C. > <<So how would you compare an NSX to a 355 anyway?>> > > Why would I? > > C. Oh never mind. > You can rent a Harley for a day (I did in Hawaii) and put in 300 miles or > so, in order to get a good feeling for it. this is *very* good advice. Ride the prospective purchase in a variety of environments - in your case, Phil, how does it cope with a lot of stop & start city riding. > Also, if you are a Ferrari owner or fan, then you MUST try a few Ducatis. > The ST4 would be closest to the type of cruiser you are thinking of getting > (but still far away) or a Monster. I've owned the Monster, and a sport > bike 900 SS from Ducati, and if I went back to motorcycles, I'd go back to > Ducati over Harley or any other. I'd say Ducati every time (well, of course I would!) but if you're after a cruiser they probably aren't the bikes for you. Also, as much as I loved my Monster, I got the feeling that at 6ft, I was a little large for it. Anyway, go try a few - in the UK a good dealer will let you have a few test rides if they know you're serious about buying from them. Paul <<The TR is fat pig, too wide, too heavy, symbol of 80's decadence.>> The TR is not an easy car to drive around town. It's the only Ferrari that I would absolutely say that about. Although, the 355 is longer and lower and harder to keep from banging up than it looks. C. <<I got a hankering for a pickup, maybe I'll move over to Ford. >> Yes, do that. <g> C. << I don't need to understand the corporate structure of Daimler-Chrysler to know that a Mercedes and a Chrysler aren't the same car.>> How 'bout an H2 and a Suburban? Did you know they are almost the same car? C. > << I don't need to understand the corporate structure of Daimler-Chrysler to > know that a Mercedes and a Chrysler aren't the same car.>> > > How 'bout an H2 and a Suburban? Did you know they are almost the same car? > > C. Nope. A buddy owns the local Hummer dealership, but I've never been interested in one. I'd go for a Land Rover first. Had a Tahoe. Didn't like it. Drove a Suburban. Didn't like it. > > << I don't need to understand the corporate structure of Daimler-Chrysler > to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > interested in one. I'd go for a Land Rover first. > Had a Tahoe. Didn't like it. Drove a Suburban. Didn't like it. Take a Hummer out for a ride. You won't like it either. (-; >> << I don't need to understand the corporate structure of Daimler-Chrysler >to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >interested in one. I'd go for a Land Rover first. >Had a Tahoe. Didn't like it. Drove a Suburban. Didn't like it. I wouldn't never get an H2. Besides, they look just like these "chunky" toy trucks my kids used to play with. From what I read, they have as much get-up-and-go as a turtle. Another friend of mine has the big ford truck - not the pick up truck - I think it's called the Expedition. He's got the diesel, this thing will pull a house off its foundation. Everytime he comes around, sounds like someone is getting furniture delivered. Phil >I don't need to understand the corporate structure of Fiat to know that a >Ferrari and a Fiat are not the same vehicle. But then, I don't need to >understand the corporate structure of Daimler-Chrysler to know that a >Mercedes and a Chrysler aren't the same car. And you have no idea of how >much I do or don't know about the corporate structure of either of them/ ...The Crossfire *isn't* just a K-car SLK? >>> >The fact is, I like Mercedes cars as well, some of them anyway, OK the >>> >AMG "big boys", the CL 55 and SL 55. I like those a lot. I always >>> >liked that E500 "Hammer". And I like the SLR. The SLR is a turd. ...I must be going through male menopause: I suddenly think the SL600 is "sweet". >>> >But they're not Ferraris. >>> No, they are Chryslers. >>Which is like saying that Ferraris are Fiats. > >If you understood the corporate structures involved in both cases you >would know that your statement is incorrect. ...I think that was well understood, indeed. > But they're not Ferraris. While I agree, I also hate the path Ferrari has taken. The new 612 is not an attractive car at all, not anymore than the new 645 anyway, IMO. Now I just saw some photos of the replacement for the 575 dubbed the "Imola" and it's even worse than the 575! What are they doing?! I was hoping they would make a new shape for the F475 (360's replacement) but nope, they're not. I think when we look back at Ferrari in ten, twenty or thirty years from now, we'll look at the 355 as the last beautiful Ferrari. >>But they're not Ferraris. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > not. I think when we look back at Ferrari in ten, twenty or thirty years > from now, we'll look at the 355 as the last beautiful Ferrari. Well, I haven't seen the "Imola" yet, but I have to beg to differ on the 355 as the last beautiful Ferrari, ONLY because I favor the 550 Maranello so much ... and the 575 wasn't a really bad sequel. The Barchetta was horrible looking, but I just ignored it. MC >> But they're not Ferraris. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >not. I think when we look back at Ferrari in ten, twenty or thirty years >from now, we'll look at the 355 as the last beautiful Ferrari. ... "645"? ..."475"? For how long was I asleep? >> I think your friend drove a 545i Sport. I don't believe the new M5 >> exists yet, and when it does, it will be in the $100,000 plus range, and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > MC It turns out he drove the new M3 and the 645ci. What he was talking about was the 645ci. He was not impressed. Then again, if it came down to it, he'd buy a Porsche or Audi before he'd go Beemer again. If anyone's interested, I have a friend in Arizona who is selling a black 1991 M5, chipped, pretty clean, handles like it's on rails, a wonderful car. I've been around it for several years and if I could buy it myself I would. Anybody interested get with me through AAF. MC <<I can't believe people actually pay a $3K+ premium to have that gearbox. The downshifts are nice and smooth, but the entire car pauses and lurches with each upshift. No thanks.>> I find that hard to believe. We've tested an M3 with the SMG and it didn't suck that bad. I wonder what setting he had it on and was he expecting it to shift like an automatic? <<I love sports cars, period, but I swoon over Ferraris.>> There's no conflict here. The M5 isn't a *sports car* it's a touring sedan and as such, it rocks. C. I'm still waiting for the definitive answer as to what exactly he drove. I'm unsure at this point. MC PS sorry I wasted bandwidth sending that to you - I'm not used to Outlook Express anymore but I use it at my old job .... I can cheerfully report that it still sucks! > <<I can't believe people actually pay a $3K+ > premium to have that gearbox. The downshifts are nice and smooth, but the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > C.
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