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Car Forum / Ferrari Cars / December 2004

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2005 Ferrari 575 Super America

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Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 26 Nov 2004 04:37 GMT
http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=7875

The Fioravanti roof system is quite novel and ingenious, but  ...WHY?

...Pininfarina:  Sliding on their a.s since the 456.
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 26 Nov 2004 04:55 GMT
>http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=7875

"Better", same,  photos:

http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/ferrari575america.html

>The Fioravanti roof system is quite novel and ingenious, but  ...WHY?

...Obviously not as heavy as a folding hardtop, but Pininfarina has
designed and built the best soft tops in the business:  It's a kludge.

>...Pininfarina:  Sliding on their a.s since the 456.
MC - 26 Nov 2004 05:16 GMT
> http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=7875
>
> The Fioravanti roof system is quite novel and ingenious, but  ...WHY?
>
> ...Pininfarina:  Sliding on their a.s since the 456.

Boy ... I'd agree, but, is that really going to be a released-model
Ferrari, or just an aftermarket special?  I always hated, and still do,
the 550 Barchetta.  If this is just going to be Ferrari's "Barchetta"
for the 575 model, whatever.  It looks lousy.

MC

Signature

"Garcon!!  More lithium!"

Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 26 Nov 2004 05:27 GMT
>> http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=7875
>> The Fioravanti roof system is quite novel and ingenious, but  ...WHY?
>> ...Pininfarina:  Sliding on their a.s since the 456.
>
>Boy ... I'd agree, but, is that really going to be a released-model
>Ferrari, or just an aftermarket special?  

2005 Ferrari 575 SuperAmerica.

>I always hated, and still do, the 550 Barchetta.  

I can't say I agree:  The 550 Barchetta is a dedicated open top car
that knows what it is.

...This thing is designed to appeal to AMG 550SL buyers.

>If this is just going to be Ferrari's "Barchetta"
>for the 575 model, whatever.  It looks lousy.

It looks like a Honda Del Sol on steroids.
Paul Duffin - 26 Nov 2004 09:18 GMT
>>> http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=7875
>>> The Fioravanti roof system is quite novel and ingenious, but
>>> ...WHY? ...Pininfarina:  Sliding on their a.s since the 456.

Um.

I quite like it.

(and don't have a pop at me, Mark - I'm too nice ;-)

MCPD
Signature

Http://www.redmist.freeserve.co.uk (Now featuring the a.a.f. directory)

Jeff C - 01 Jan 2002 06:00 GMT
' machine even has an official name 'Project
*    Platform'.

[
   "The Puzzle Palace": all these computer systems are linked together
   under Project Platform. The first Cray went to the NSA. p138
]

*   Although the NSA was officially formed in 1952, it grew out of an
*   International Agreement signed in 1947. Officially termed the "UKUSA
*   PACT," this was an agreement between Britain, the U.S.A., Canada, New
*   Zealand, Australia and the NATO countries.
*  
*   The UKUSA PACT was, quite simply and bluntly, an agreement between these
*   countries to collect and collate information on their respective citizens
*   and to share this information with each other and pass on to Fort Meade.
*  
*   On March 9th 1977, the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Bill Hayden, asked
*   "questions on notice" on the subject. On April 19, Prime Minister Malcom
*   Fraser, declined to answer the questions, "in the interests of national
*   security."
*  
*   The first clue of the Australian Headquarters of PROJECT PLATFORM appeared
*   in 1975. Then, as today, government undertakings involving expenditure
*   over a certain amount must be presented to a Senate body, the Joint
*   Parliamentary Accounts Committee (JPAC). In 1975 JPAC was asked to
*   examine and approve finance for the construction of a new building in
*   Deakin, a leafy suburb of Canberra.
*  
*   This quite massive building was to be constructed behind an existing, much
*   smaller one, which, until then, had been known to the public only as the
*   "Deakin Telephone Exchange."
*  
*   That it was not, and never had been, simply a "telephone exchange" finally
*   came to light in the 1975 JPAC Approval Report, when it admitted that the
*   existing building had a comprehensive basement which housed NASA's micro-
*   wave communications headquarters in Australia. Part of th
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 26 Nov 2004 14:39 GMT
>>>> http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=7875
>>>> The Fioravanti roof system is quite novel and ingenious, but
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I quite like it.
>(and don't have a pop at me, Mark - I'm too nice ;-)

_Nothing_ personal.  If everyone liked the same things, or thought the
same way, the terrorists will have won...

Yet there is such thing as objective beauty in design, and clearly I
don't see what you do, nor you what I do.

...And with the Series 2 SuperAmerica, and the 80s' [spits] Testarossa
fresh in my mind's eye, I'm starting to loathe Ferrari's re-hashing of
legendary nomenclature.
Paul Duffin - 26 Nov 2004 21:41 GMT
> If everyone liked the same things, or thought the
> same way, the terrorists will have won...

...them or McDonalds.

> I'm starting to loathe Ferrari's re-hashing of
> legendary nomenclature.

I'm split over this one. On the one hand I'm a great lover of references,
and the mere apperance of the word 'SuperAmerica' (in this context, I
hasten to add) in the Ferrari e-mail was enough to induce a curious
romantic sense of anticipation in me, but on the other hand, you have a
point... but... but...

....Mmmmmm...... 'SuperAmerica'

A friend of mine who worked in advertising used to counter each and
every one of my moans about the banality of the vast majority of
the products of her trade with a curt "It isn't aimed at you.".

I guess in this case it is, and I'm hit.

MCPD (victim of Ferrari marketing)
Signature

Http://www.redmist.freeserve.co.uk (Now featuring the a.a.f. directory)

Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 26 Nov 2004 22:38 GMT
>> If everyone liked the same things, or thought the
>> same way, the terrorists will have won...
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>romantic sense of anticipation in me, but on the other hand, you have a
>point... but... but...

There is nothing "SuperAmerica" about this latest release:  It's a 575
flip-top, using a "folding hardtop" solution which would be innovative
and elegant on a 2005 FIAT X1/9 successor, but which is cheap and
"cheezy" on what is bound to be a $300,000 Ferrari.

>....Mmmmmm...... 'SuperAmerica'

...And the *proper* retro-nym would be "California", surely?

>A friend of mine who worked in advertising used to counter each and
>every one of my moans about the banality of the vast majority of
>the products of her trade with a curt "It isn't aimed at you.".
>
>I guess in this case it is, and I'm hit.

I still think it's aimed at the "folding hardtop muscle car buying
plushbottom yahoo" market.

The Fioravanti top on a 575 is a genuine kludge:  It does the job, but
with neither sufficient thought nor grace or elegance.
Tifosi308 the Serial Number Geek - 30 Nov 2004 02:32 GMT
Kim Philby wrote...

>.And the *proper* retro-nym would be >"California", surely?

You beat me to it.  California, PFCab, something like that would have been
better.  Superamerica just doesn't fit.  Special styling, limited, very limited
editions, Grand Touring, not Sport Touring, those things say Superamerica.  Cab
version of the standard front engined GT car doesn't.

T308
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 30 Nov 2004 18:41 GMT
>Kim Philby wrote...
>>.And the *proper* retro-nym would be >"California", surely?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>editions, Grand Touring, not Sport Touring, those things say Superamerica.  Cab
>version of the standard front engined GT car doesn't.

No... Not at all.

..."Kludge-ifornia".
TigerRace1 - 26 Nov 2004 19:39 GMT
<<I quite like it.>>

It's interesting. We've got a glass roof on our '05 Mustang. <g>

C.
matt  borland - 27 Nov 2004 01:41 GMT
> >>> http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=7875
> >>> The Fioravanti roof system is quite novel and ingenious, but
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> MCPD
> --

I'd have to see it in person, but I kinda like it.

Of course, I'm a sucker for flying buttresses. I like the
Jag XKS, late 60's Dodge Charger, etc.

-Matt- "It's all about the buttresses."
Aaron - 27 Nov 2004 02:46 GMT
> -Matt- "It's all about the buttresses."

Baby got buttresses?
matt  borland - 28 Nov 2004 00:04 GMT
> > -Matt- "It's all about the buttresses."
>
> Baby got buttresses?

I like big buttresses and I cannot lie...

-Matt- :::gets sprung:::
Iain Miller - 28 Nov 2004 20:00 GMT
> Of course, I'm a sucker for flying buttresses. I like the
> Jag XKS,

Brrrrr...such a badly screwed together car. Those rear end of thatthing was
originally supposed to be a hatchback affair AFAIR - hence the buttresses.

There is a small company here that takes old XJS's & rebuilds them the way
they should have been built originally - Engine & trans rebuilt & modified,
complete rewire , fixes the suspension & completely re-trims the interior -
properly! Makes them into cars that actually work quite well I believe!

I.
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 29 Nov 2004 01:27 GMT
>> Of course, I'm a sucker for flying buttresses. I like the
>> Jag XKS,
>
>Brrrrr...such a badly screwed together car.

POS.  ..I'd rather have a 'Vette.
Iain Miller - 29 Nov 2004 17:54 GMT
> >> Of course, I'm a sucker for flying buttresses. I like the
> >> Jag XKS,
> >
> >Brrrrr...such a badly screwed together car.
>
> POS.  ..I'd rather have a 'Vette.

Good grief man - I'm not sure I'd go THAT far!

I.
LIW - 30 Nov 2004 04:03 GMT
> > >> Of course, I'm a sucker for flying buttresses. I like the
> > >> Jag XKS,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I.

Then you shouldn't.   However, Ray Charles doing duets on the stereo, a
clear day, Corsa Indy Tigershark aftermarket exhausts, and the six speed
manual working up and down the gears today.... for under $50,000 new..... My
July 04 C5 Vette is doing fine.  Would I chop it in for a Ferrari, or a
replacement for my Viper of later years?  Yes.   But in the meantime, it is
not a bad place to run up some revs, and push a turn about.

Not everyone can afford a Ferrari, either to buy or to own.  And in the
interim there is a lot of fun to be had from Mustangs, Corvettes, Vipers,
and the like.

Or for that matter, I've owned Datsun 1600s, Austin Americans, Mini Coopers,
MGBs, Datsun 300s, Mustangs of the 66 and 00 vintage (ok the last is
actually my wife's toy car for when she's not in the Lexus SUV, Jag XKE
staight 6, and so on and son on..   Admittedly none of these is a Ferrari,
but every single one of them can be a handful of fun.  Up to and including
my new Audi S8, which I think will outrun many Ferraris while playing the
Flight of the Valkeries and pretending to be Robert Duval.

And anyone who can join me in Skip Barber's Viper Class, and come away
saying they didn't have a good time because they weren't in a Ferrari, will
be suspect as a car person in my regard.

True Ferrari fans are one thing.   I don't find that they dump on other
people's rides.   They just love their marque.
Iain Miller - 30 Nov 2004 13:30 GMT
> > "Harold Adrian Russell Philby" <home.office@kremlin.co.ru> wrote in
> message
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> True Ferrari fans are one thing.   I don't find that they dump on other
> people's rides.   They just love their marque.

Well that's me told then! ....lighten up man for heaven's sake!

I.
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 30 Nov 2004 18:43 GMT
> Corsa Indy Tigershark aftermarket exhausts,

"Corsa Indy Tigershark"...  

...What, Viagra doesn't make a muffler?
LIW - 01 Dec 2004 05:43 GMT
> > Corsa Indy Tigershark aftermarket exhausts,
>
> "Corsa Indy Tigershark"...
>
> ...What, Viagra doesn't make a muffler?

What's Viagra?
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 01 Dec 2004 16:52 GMT
>> > Corsa Indy Tigershark aftermarket exhausts,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>What's Viagra?

Ah...  That razor sharp wit we'd missed to much...
LIW - 02 Dec 2004 05:06 GMT
> >> > Corsa Indy Tigershark aftermarket exhausts,
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Ah...  That razor sharp wit we'd missed to much...

Who was it that wrote the line about "sliding down the razor blade of life"
?   Maybe George Carlin?
TigerRace1 - 30 Nov 2004 21:07 GMT
<<True Ferrari fans are one thing.   I don't find that they dump on other
people's rides.>>

Oh, piffle. Get over it already.

C.
Harold Adrain Russell Philby - 09 Dec 2004 16:15 GMT
>> >> Of course, I'm a sucker for flying buttresses. I like the
>> >> Jag XKS,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Good grief man - I'm not sure I'd go THAT far!

A nice one:  A '69 Stingray Coupe in Bridgehampton Blue, with a ZR-1
LT5  engine and 6spd tranny, a rack and pinion kit, Konis, Brembo
brakes, and 17" P-Zero Neroes on O.Z. magnesium wheels, with SPARCO
Milano-P seats, and a MOMO Alcantara-covered handle.

...Or did you think I meant Jethro's cousin's '74 Indy Pace Car
replica?
matt  borland - 29 Nov 2004 01:34 GMT
> > Of course, I'm a sucker for flying buttresses. I like the
> > Jag XKS,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> I.

It's really popular over here to drop small block Chevy
engines in them.

I'd keep the V12, meself.

-Matt- "High Efficiency, no less."
Iain Miller - 28 Nov 2004 19:57 GMT
> >>> http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=7875
> >>> The Fioravanti roof system is quite novel and ingenious, but
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> I quite like it.

Me too, I like the 550 Barchetta too

> (and don't have a pop at me, Mark - I'm too nice ;-)

its true you know!

I.
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 29 Nov 2004 01:26 GMT
>> >>> http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=7875
>> >>> The Fioravanti roof system is quite novel and ingenious, but
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Me too, I like the 550 Barchetta too

...Yet they are still nothing alike.
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 01 Dec 2004 17:02 GMT
>> http://www.autoscoops.be/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=7875
>> The Fioravanti roof system is quite novel and ingenious, but  ...WHY?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>the 550 Barchetta.  If this is just going to be Ferrari's "Barchetta"
>for the 575 model, whatever.  It looks lousy.

What are your reasons for disliking the Barchetta?  

...I promise I'll try to refrain from trying to convert you.
MC - 04 Dec 2004 00:15 GMT
> What are your reasons for disliking the Barchetta?  
>
> ...I promise I'll try to refrain from trying to convert you.

What can I say?  It's fugly.  The shape of the car itself, when cut like
that, becomes Vette-ish.  The little "Speedster" humps behind the garish
rollbar-rettes look astoundly ugly, like they did on that horrible
Speedster remake Porsche did many years ago.  All in all, it's a
grotesque mockery of an automobile that was designed as a coupe, looks
best as a coupe, and should remain a coupe.  I mean, they would have
done better if they'd gone ahead and made a full convertible, a la
Daytona; at least there would be a little more black canvas and all that
hideous "speedster bumpiture" would be seen not nearly as often.  They
didn't come out with a hideous "Barchetta" with the Daytona, did they?
NO.  Just a decent-enough looking convertible.

The two Barchettas I've seen on the road were both red, and both of them
had extremely aged, Swifty Lazar lookalikes behind the wheel, with the
black wraparound sunglasses and the too-many-martinis gin blossoms
(looking kind of, a bit like Ezo himself, but *with* the gauche golf
shirts, *without* the panache).  It made me sick.

You couldn't convert me with your most winsome prose.  Don't even try.

And I'm basically bedridden with flu right now!  Who knows what I
would've come up with were I not at death's door?

MC
(damn why didn't I get that shot?)

Signature

You tell 'em I'M COMING!  And HELL'S COMING WITH ME!  You hear?  HELL'S
COMING WITH ME!!

Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 04 Dec 2004 15:26 GMT
>> What are your reasons for disliking the Barchetta?  
>> ...I promise I'll try to refrain from trying to convert you.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>didn't come out with a hideous "Barchetta" with the Daytona, did they?
>NO.  Just a decent-enough looking convertible.

You should re-acquaint yourself with the terms Barchetta, Spider and
Cabriolet.

>The two Barchettas I've seen on the road were both red, and both of them
>had extremely aged, Swifty Lazar lookalikes behind the wheel, with the
>black wraparound sunglasses and the too-many-martinis gin blossoms
>(looking kind of, a bit like Ezo himself, but *with* the gauche golf
>shirts, *without* the panache).  It made me sick.

If you saw a [insert your current favorite here] with the same driver
at the wheel would you similarly blame the car?

You're going to find that a quite substantial, some would say
overwhelming,  proportion of Ferrari's are owned by people who are
incapable of utilizing the cars performance envelope, are incapable of
reasoned discourse, and are incapable of even simple human emotion:
Try to focus on the others.

>You couldn't convert me with your most winsome prose.  Don't even try.
>
>And I'm basically bedridden with flu right now!  Who knows what I
>would've come up with were I not at death's door?

Yes, we will never know.
MC - 04 Dec 2004 21:17 GMT
> You should re-acquaint yourself with the terms Barchetta, Spider and
> Cabriolet.

I don't believe Ferrari has ever used the term Cabriolet, Harold.  I
know for sure they didn't with the Daytona, they used the term Spider.

> If you saw a [insert your current favorite here] with the same driver
> at the wheel would you similarly blame the car?

I said plenty about what I didn't like regarding the car itself - I
noticed there was no retort to any of that.

The fact that I saw two of these "my-most-hated-Ferrari-models" being
driven by human lizards only enhanced their undesirability to me.

>>You couldn't convert me with your most winsome prose.  Don't even try.
>>And I'm basically bedridden with flu right now!  Who knows what I
>>would've come up with were I not at death's door?

> Yes, we will never know.

Well, I'm still there, and I've found that my writing ability is
definitely going downhill.  I think I need some laudanum.

MC

Signature

You tell 'em I'M COMING!  And HELL'S COMING WITH ME!  You hear?  HELL'S
COMING WITH ME!!

TigerRace1 - 05 Dec 2004 05:25 GMT
<<I don't believe Ferrari has ever used the term Cabriolet>>

The did at least once, hon. I own an '85 Mondial QV Cab. This one looks just
like mine, except for those damned, fender badges. The only things added to my
car after it left the factory were hand controls and Clay Regazonni's signature
across the center console.

http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/by-serial-number/ferrari-by-serial-nu
mber/model-index/model-index-by-date-1980/166-mm-s-n-0-11.html

On an entirely different note falling into the category of *WTF Were They
Thinking?* I present for your consideration, the following:

http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/by-serial-number/ferrari-by-serial-nu
mber/model-index/model-index-by-date-1980/166-mm-s-n-0-26.html

<<I said plenty about what I didn't like regarding the car itself - I noticed
there was no retort to any of that.>>

Of course not. What fun would it be for him to actually address an issue,
rather than make snide comments to anyone who bothers to respond to his posts?

C.
MC - 05 Dec 2004 06:00 GMT
> On an entirely different note falling into the category of *WTF Were They
> Thinking?* I present for your consideration, the following:
>
> http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/by-serial-number/ferrari-by-serial-nu
> mber/model-index/model-index-by-date-1980/166-mm-s-n-0-26.html

I think that looks HOT.  So "Mad Max"ish.  If they just sharpened that
shovel thing up front ...

MC

Signature

You tell 'em I'M COMING!  And HELL'S COMING WITH ME!  You hear?  HELL'S
COMING WITH ME!!

Paul Duffin - 05 Dec 2004 18:11 GMT
> I think that looks HOT.  So "Mad Max"ish.  If they just sharpened that
> shovel thing up front ...

Me too!  A Boxer with a built in drinks tray!

MCPD
(who rarely gets an opportunity for a 'me too' post)
Signature

Http://www.redmist.freeserve.co.uk (Now featuring the a.a.f. directory)

TigerRace1 - 06 Dec 2004 07:15 GMT
<<MCPD
(who rarely gets an opportunity for a 'me too' post)>>

And this is what you choose to *me too*? Freak.

C.
Harold Adrain Russell Philby - 08 Dec 2004 06:02 GMT
>> On an entirely different note falling into the category of *WTF Were They
>> Thinking?* I present for your consideration, the following:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I think that looks HOT.  So "Mad Max"ish.  If they just sharpened that
>shovel thing up front ...

"Splitter", while ludicrous, actually a visual improvement over the
"bus bumper" solutions of the day.
Harold Adrain Russell Philby - 08 Dec 2004 06:24 GMT
>> On an entirely different note falling into the category of *WTF Were They
>> Thinking?* I present for your consideration, the following:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I think that looks HOT.  So "Mad Max"ish.  If they just sharpened that
>shovel thing up front ...

A "splitter" and, while ludicrous, actually a visual improvement over
the "bus bumper" solutions of the day.

EG: http://tinyurl.com/3kzbq
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 05 Dec 2004 14:24 GMT
>> You should re-acquaint yourself with the terms Barchetta, Spider and
>> Cabriolet.
>
>I don't believe Ferrari has ever used the term Cabriolet, Harold.  I
>know for sure they didn't with the Daytona, they used the term Spider.

BZZZT.

>> If you saw a [insert your current favorite here] with the same driver
>> at the wheel would you similarly blame the car?
>
>I said plenty about what I didn't like regarding the car itself - I
>noticed there was no retort to any of that.

I promised, silly little kitties aside, I would refrain from trying to
convince you, as your "hatred" is irrational, but if you insist:
Needless to say, I don't agree.  The comparison to any 'Vette is
simply senseless.  Your "history" is well off and all wrong.  And if
you think "bumpiture" is bad, have a look at a REAL Testa Rossa.

I stand by my "instant assessment" that you despise the sort of folks
you saw driving them so much it colors your perception of the vehicle
itself:  And if your going to spend any time amongst Ferraris you're
going to have to get over that.

...For every David Letterman there are 1000 Donald Trumps.

>The fact that I saw two of these "my-most-hated-Ferrari-models" being
>driven by human lizards only enhanced their undesirability to me.
>
>>>You couldn't convert me with your most winsome prose.  Don't even try.

...And yet you and the littlest kat castigate me for letting it go.

Let me know when she's made up your mind.
MC - 06 Dec 2004 07:29 GMT
>>I don't believe Ferrari has ever used the term Cabriolet, Harold.  I
>>know for sure they didn't with the Daytona, they used the term Spider.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> simply senseless.  Your "history" is well off and all wrong.  And if
> you think "bumpiture" is bad, have a look at a REAL Testa Rossa.

and

> ...And yet you and the littlest kat castigate me for letting it go.
>
> Let me know when she's made up your mind.

I'm just going to stick with the old Dave Mason saw:

"So let's leave it alone, 'cause we can't see eye to eye.
There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys.
There's only you and me and we just disagree.
Ooo - ooo - ooohoo oh - oh - o-whoa"

And I mean it, all the way to that last whoa, baby - with soul!

MC

Signature

You tell 'em I'M COMING!  And HELL'S COMING WITH ME!  You hear?  HELL'S
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