Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Ferrari Cars / December 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Duffin's Europe Trip

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
LIW - 24 Dec 2004 18:46 GMT
I just happened to look at the photographs of Duffin (and Gretchen)
travelling over the Swiss Alps in his 308.  What a terrific trip that looked
like!!

I'm curious as to whether the performance of the 308 changed much in
response to "cold air induction" or "air starvation".   I read about these
as theoretical changes, but was curious as to how a real 308 performed in
those real conditions.

I'm also curious as to what tires you had on the car in those snow pictures,
and how they performed.

Happy Holidays,
Larry
Paul - 24 Dec 2004 19:03 GMT
> I just happened to look at the photographs of Duffin (and Gretchen)
> travelling over the Swiss Alps in his 308.  What a terrific trip that
> looked like!!

Damn straight!

> I'm curious as to whether the performance of the 308 changed much in
> response to "cold air induction" or "air starvation".   I read about
> these as theoretical changes, but was curious as to how a real 308
> performed in those real conditions.

Well, she does seem to fly, but that's probably a rather emotional and
subjective evaluation :-)

Sorry I can't be more scientific about it, but what I can say with
confidence is that at great altitude she does miss, pop and bang
a bit, which can be a tad distracting mid-bend.

I'll tell you this though, Ferraris are MADE to drive in the Alps!

> I'm also curious as to what tires you had on the car in those snow
> pictures, and how they performed.

Goodyear Eagle F1s. On the ice the nose slid out gently at first,
followed neatly by the arse. All very dramatic - even at the 5mph
I was doing at the time (try sliding towards the edge of a chasm at
*any* speed. Trust me, it tightens the ol' rectum).

The F1s are great tyres - I ran on the standard Michelins for years
(until I could no longer source any) and then had to swap out the
wheels.... I was sorry to lose the riding high '80s supercar tyre' look,
but on the lower profile sections, she is much more 'taught' and
inspires even more confidence than she used to (which I had thought
would be imopossible).

Anyhoooooo.... sorry, Larry, I don't think I've been remotely
informative. Guess you'll have to try it yourself one day :-)

-Paul
Signature

Http://www.redmist.freeserve.co.uk (Now featuring the a.a.f. directory)

matt  borland - 24 Dec 2004 20:11 GMT
"Paul" <Paul@all.made.up.com> wrote in message

> Damn straight!

I can't tell you how it warms my heart to see you
type those words...

-Matt- "F**kin' A!"
Paul - 24 Dec 2004 20:16 GMT
matt borland wrote:
> "Paul" <Paul@all.made.up.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> -Matt- "F**kin' A!"

You betcha!

-Paul

Signature

Http://www.redmist.freeserve.co.uk (Now featuring the a.a.f. directory)

Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 27 Dec 2004 18:17 GMT
>I just happened to look at the photographs of Duffin (and Gretchen)
>travelling over the Swiss Alps in his 308.  What a terrific trip that looked
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>as theoretical changes, but was curious as to how a real 308 performed in
>those real conditions.

OH!  For F*ck's Sake...

There is _nothing_ even remotely "theoretical" about the actual
effects of the reduced density of warmer air, and ambient air at
higher altitudes, on the performance of naturally aspirated IC
engines.

Warm air, rarified air:  Less dense, less oxygen, reduced power.

SEE: Physical Chemistry For Dummies, at your local bookstore.

See Also: Empirical.

See, In Addition: The Complete Idiot's Guide To Carburetor Jetting.
Paul - 27 Dec 2004 18:46 GMT
> OH!  For F*ck's Sake...

<sigh>  Do you actually know which side of your bed is the right
one to get out of in the morning?

> There is _nothing_ even remotely "theoretical" about the actual
> effects of the reduced density of warmer air, and ambient air at
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> See, In Addition: The Complete Idiot's Guide To Carburetor Jetting.

FYI, a 308 quattrovalvole is FI (althought the end results don't differ
greatly)

Paul
Signature

Http://www.redmist.freeserve.co.uk (Now featuring the a.a.f. directory)

LIW - 27 Dec 2004 21:02 GMT
> > OH!  For F*ck's Sake...
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> FYI, a 308 quattrovalvole is FI (althought the end results don't differ
> greatly)

Why bother?   His need to pontificate will not be easily swayed by either
facts or actual first hand experience.

In any event.   I really enjoyed your pictures, and I saw your former
answer, which is really what I was wondering.

Next question.  Do you find that the later 308 Quattrovole is much different
in engine response than the early 328, if you've had a chance to do a hands
on comparison?   I've driven the 328, but not the 308.

Regards,
Larry
Paul - 28 Dec 2004 13:08 GMT
> Next question.  Do you find that the later 308 Quattrovole is much
> different in engine response than the early 328, if you've had a
> chance to do a hands on comparison?   I've driven the 328, but not
> the 308.

I'm afraid that I haven't driven a 328, but I have *some* experience in that
I
have both been a passenger in Iaiaiaiaiain's (great hangover cure) and have
<cough> chased one or two, including Iaiaian's (note the gradual reduction
in 'ia's - by the end of this post I might even write it correctly).  Based
on
these slightly less than scientific comparisons, I would say that the 328
has
an edge, but it is slight, and most pronounced at the top end. I doubt that
scooting them about under 80-90mph would show much difference at all,
but as you get towards and beyond 100, the longer legs on the 328 start
to show.

I should add, that whilst my 308 is well run in, Iaiain's (nearly!)  has
still
to reach it's first service, so things might still be a little tight in
there. Also
his probably doesn't reach full temperature on the way to the end of his
road and back (some 500 metres), which might again have an effect.

(tee-hee!)

If you were looking to buy one or the other, I'd say:

308qv: great 70's style (chrome bits, groovy door release!), perhaps
closer to the original design concept. Costs less than a 328 to purchase
(but a little more to service - some parts being more 'unique than on the
328).

328: final tweak in the series, most 'sorted', bit faster, more 80's in
appearance (but looks younger). Slightly more headroom (I'm told, but
seemed about the same to me).

In conclusion, I'd say that when purchasing, an 'excellent' example of
either
is better than a 'good' example of the other. And thus, I have to say that
I'd choose Iaian's over mine, were I buying afresh (but would I swap now,
in the unlikely event that  Iain [HOORAH!] offered.... hmmm.....

...tricky....

...very tricky...

...um...

-Paul
Signature

Http://www.redmist.freeserve.co.uk (Now featuring the a.a.f. directory)

LIW - 27 Dec 2004 20:56 GMT
> >I just happened to look at the photographs of Duffin (and Gretchen)
> >travelling over the Swiss Alps in his 308.  What a terrific trip that looked
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> See, In Addition: The Complete Idiot's Guide To Carburetor Jetting.

Harold:

You see, the difference between asking you the question, and asking Paul, is
that he actually owns the car, and actually drove it over the passes.   He
can, and did, give me an actual answer of  to both of my questions based
upon his actual experience, which is what I asked.

You, as usual, gave some fuckwit condescension from your parlor book on less
than steller insults,  based, apparently on some deep seated need for
attention.

Now, if you don't mind....... the grown ups are talking.....go back to your
room and play with your carburetor jets.
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 28 Dec 2004 17:04 GMT
>> >I just happened to look at the photographs of Duffin (and Gretchen)
>> >travelling over the Swiss Alps in his 308.  What a terrific trip that looked
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>can, and did, give me an actual answer of  to both of my questions based
>upon his actual experience, which is what I asked.

His actual experience, whether driving a 308 or a Yugo, is that the
higher he got the less power his engine produced, as engines are
usually rated at sea level and relatively cool temperatures to begin
with..  

>You, as usual, gave some fuckwit condescension from your parlor book on less
>than steller insults,  based, apparently on some deep seated need for
>attention.

Ignoring science will *eventually* make a fool of you.

>Now, if you don't mind....... the grown ups are talking.....go back to your
>room and play with your carburetor jets.

...A car lover would know what they are.
LIW - 29 Dec 2004 04:55 GMT
"Harold Adrian Russell Philby" <home.office@kremlin.co.ru> > >Now, if you
don't mind....... the grown ups are talking.....go back to your
> >room and play with your carburetor jets.
>
> ...A car lover would know what they are.

Let's see, I've rebuilt AFB 4 barrel carbs, changed jet kits on motorcyles,
rebuilt the carbs including changing the jet sizes on my old Honda 750 four,
replaced the centers on SUs and matched them with the old rubber hose.   I
kept my Datsun Roadster, MGBs, and Jaguar XKE tuned, and I still know where
5 degrees before top dead center is.  I know where the points are inside the
distributor cap, and enough to cover them with a plastic bag when it's
raining.  I know that the old Volkswagons die suddenly, and that means the
fuel line, which isn't secured, has slipped off and a fire may soon follow.
I've completely rebuilt a slant six engine, including having to rework the
torque converter to clear the bell housing, and have had to figure out the
wiring harness after a fire.  I've bled brakes, pulled disks to have them
turned, and replaced drum brakes.   I've replaced exhaust systems, air
induction systems, and added stronger anti-sway bars.   I have my timing
light in the garage, next to the telephone number for my current car
dealerships.

Just because I don't work on cars these days, doesn't mean that I never did.
It also doesn't mean, Mr. Science, that I don't know that as ambient air
gets thinner cars slow down.

However, many cars use cold air induction to increase horsepower, so my
actual question was whether the colder air offset the thinner air as far as
power was concerned.  I also didn't know how much the fuel injection
compensates for the changes in air, and I suspect you don't either, since
you didn't know that the Quatrovalve 308 had fuel injection.

See, the problem with your brand of condescension is that you don't bother
to find out what people may know, or what they've done in their histories.
You just butt into someone else's conversation in an effort to be demeaning.
And ignorant effort, but an effort nonetheless.

It does not make you charming.   And frankly, it is about to make you not
worth responding to.

If that's your goal in your tone in responding to me, and to others on this
newsgroup, then you're doing an admirable job.

Keep up the good work.
Harold Adrian Russell Philby - 29 Dec 2004 15:53 GMT
>"Harold Adrian Russell Philby" <home.office@kremlin.co.ru> > >Now, if you
>don't mind....... the grown ups are talking.....go back to your
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>light in the garage, next to the telephone number for my current car
>dealerships.

Such an "impressive" resume... And yet the effects of altitude are
"theoretical"...

>Just because I don't work on cars these days, doesn't mean that I never did.
>It also doesn't mean, Mr. Science, that I don't know that as ambient air
>gets thinner cars slow down.

...Engines develop less power.

>However, many cars use cold air induction to increase horsepower,

...Attempt to reduce the loss associated with summer temperatures.

>so my
>actual question was whether the colder air offset the thinner air as far as
>power was concerned.  

PV=nRT, solve for the molar fraction of oxygen in air.

>I also didn't know how much the fuel injection
>compensates for the changes in air,

It does not.  Just how would it?

>and I suspect you don't either, since
>you didn't know that the Quatrovalve 308 had fuel injection.

BZZZT

That I didn't address an unimportant fact is not at all relevant:  The
only thing that compensates for altitude is supercharging.

>See, the problem with your brand of condescension is that you don't bother
>to find out what people may know, or what they've done in their histories.

So just what do yo know?  You think the effect of altitude on IC
engines is, and I quote, merely "theoretical".

...Hardly erudite.
LIW - 29 Dec 2004 16:06 GMT
"Harold Adrian Russell Philby" <home.office@kremlin.co.ru> wrote in message

> So just what do yo know?  You think the effect of altitude on IC
> engines is, and I quote, merely "theoretical".
>
> ...Hardly erudite.

I know that I did 26 years of trial work before changing fields to do
something that had less pretentious idiots, and that I no longer waste my
time talking to them.   You can rest your case, now.  You've made the fold.

Au revoir Mr. Panache.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.