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Car Forum / Fiat Cars / January 2006

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Punto gearbox - some useful information

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Paul - 02 Jan 2006 13:18 GMT
Information some may find useful.

If your Punto MK 1 gearbox is making a rumbling/whirring noise during
idling then it is almost certainly a bearing fault.  If you press the
clutch pedal in and the noise is still present, then suspect the thrust
bearing.  If you do the same and the noise disappears, then it is
almost certainly the bearings supporting the input shaft.  Pushing in
the clutch allows this shaft to slow down and stop, thus the cessation
of the noise.

This was the case with my Punto and I have just replaced the input
shaft bearings.  Thankfully, the box now sounds like new.  If you are
able to remove the box itself, then stripping the box should present no
difficulties.  You will need a bearing puller - cheap on eBay.

Once the box is removed, drain the oil and remove the selector
mechanism casing.  Then, remove the fifth gear end cover which exposes
the two nuts on the end of both gearbox shafts.  To remove the nuts,
you need to lock the box, which is done by selecting third and first at
the same time.  This can be done once the selector cover is removed.
You need a large socket (32 mm I think) to remove both nuts.  Remove
the 5th gear syncho and the other cog (extract using wedges - careful
of the teeth) which will expose both end bearings.  There is a circlip
around both - remove and take off the heavy plate.  Remove the 13 mm
nut from the side of the box - this holds the reverse shaft - and
now the casing can come away.  The whole internal assembly can be
lifted out.

What I found interesting was that the secondary shaft bearings had
integral seals and they ran smooth.  The main shaft bearings did not
and had become rough thus giving the noise.  The bearings on this shaft
are of different sizes.  The front bearing is smaller and is a standard
bearing you can get in any bearing supplier - make sure it has
plastic spacers and not metal ones.  The rear bearing is larger and has
a groove cut in the outer race for the circlip.  You can also get these
in bearing suppliers, but they may need to order them.  It was this
larger bearing causing the noise.  To remove this bearing, put the
circlip on again and pull the selector ring up against it - watch out
for the three springs that may pop out.  This allows you to put a
bearing puller onto it and extract the bearing.  I obtained a
replacement from Fiat (£20) and have noticed that it has been modified
- you guessed it - to contain side seals.  So obviously there have
been some problems with this earlier exposed design.

The box goes together in the reverse order.  It is a long job but the
parts are not that expensive even from Fiat.

Hopefully, somebody may find this of some use.
Steven Briggs - 02 Jan 2006 16:26 GMT
>Information some may find useful.
[Snip useful description of input shaft bearing repair]

>  I obtained a
>replacement from Fiat (£20) and have noticed that it has been modified
>- you guessed it - to contain side seals.  So obviously there have
>been some problems with this earlier exposed design.

Now there's a thing. Just had the input shaft bearing on my Marea JTD
replaced (57K miles) - I wonder if this is a generic weakness across
several Fiat 'boxes?

What function do you reckon these seals provide? - after all isn't the
bearing submersed in the oil in the box for lubrication.

>Hopefully, somebody may find this of some use.

Signature

steve

Paul - 04 Jan 2006 09:02 GMT
> >Information some may find useful.
> [Snip useful description of input shaft bearing repair]
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> --
> steve

If you remove the magnet from the bottom of the differential housing,
you will notice that it is covered in metal fragments.  If you run
these between your fingers, they are noticeably rough.  So at some
stage, these particles must have been floating around in the oil before
the magnet got a hold of them.  You can only but guess where they spent
some of their life.

IT is possible to take the bearing apart.  Punch out the centre of the
bearing, move all the balls to one side and use a level to wedge the
inner race away.  You can then inspect the running surfaces.  The
bearing I removed, without seals, was pitted and the balls had a matt
appearance.  Obviously, some large debris had gained easy access and
done this.  Where it came from, who knows? In the newer bearings, the
seals run very tightly against the races so that all, but microscopic
particles, are unable to enter the bearing, thus extending its life.
Huw - 04 Jan 2006 09:57 GMT
>>> Information some may find useful.
>> [Snip useful description of input shaft bearing repair]
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> seals run very tightly against the races so that all, but microscopic
> particles, are unable to enter the bearing, thus extending its life.

I suspect they are sealed bearings and not even oil gets in there.
Also I don't think the open bearing will have worn its case hardening as you
describe as a result of debris. It is more likely to be from lack of
lubrication or just coming to the end of its life. Many gearboxes now use
sealed bearings but I have no idea whether this leads to a longer service
life.

Huw
Paul Halliday - 02 Jan 2006 19:29 GMT
> Information some may find useful.
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> Hopefully, somebody may find this of some use.

It'll always be useful for the knowledge base - thanks Paul.

Paul

1999 Fiat Punto Sporting 16V (Mk1)
... and some SAABs :)
 
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