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Car Forum / Fiat Cars / June 2006

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2000 Punto pre-MOT worries

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Mercia - 31 May 2006 15:01 GMT
It's that time of year again, MOT time.  Now I know this time that my
1.2 2000 W Reg Punto (62k on the clock) won't pass, it drives like a
charm but aside from a chipped / scratched windscreen and a blowing
exhaust there's several things that are causing concern that I'm unsure
about.

First off while driving, the handbrake light periodically lights up,
physically pressing the handbrake down seems to make the light go off
again for a short time.  It seems to have a little 'give' however when
not in use so I assume it can be corrected?

Furthermore, less frequently, the front drivers side wheel seems to
emit a high pitched squeaking noise, a 'cyclic' noise while driving.
This seems to only be occaisonal and not as frequent as the handbrake
issue, I intend to remove the wheel tonight after work and look at the
brakes, however knowing very little about cars I'm not sure what to
look for at all, or better still if the problem is even related to the
brakes?

Otherwise I think it'll live.  Anything to check for would be
appreciated however!
Nick  ///// - 31 May 2006 19:43 GMT
> It's that time of year again, MOT time.  Now I know this time that my
> 1.2 2000 W Reg Punto (62k on the clock) won't pass, it drives like a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> again for a short time.  It seems to have a little 'give' however when
> not in use so I assume it can be corrected?
YES this is easily corrected.  Also I doubt they would pick this up in an
MOT.  If they spotted the light they would just assume that the handbrake
was not fully home and push it back.  With no vehicle motion on the ramps it
would come back on.  Also to my knowledge handbrake light is not a testable
item.  Only handbrake operation and braking power.

> Furthermore, less frequently, the front drivers side wheel seems to
> emit a high pitched squeaking noise, a 'cyclic' noise while driving.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> look for at all, or better still if the problem is even related to the
> brakes?

Could just be squeeling brake pads.  Simple checks, especially as you will
have the wheel off.
1) Check for at least 3mm of pad thickness ( don't include the backing
plate)
2) Apply brakes, several strokes, then try rotating the front jucked up
wheel/hub.  If it is not binding on either side then the calipers are not
sticking.
3) Go for a drive at 30 mph on a LEVEL deserted road, hold the steering
wheel very very gently and try different levels of braking from soft, medium
to hard.  If the car brakes in a straight line with no pulling to either
side then the brake balance is probably ok.

> Otherwise I think it'll live.  Anything to check for would be
> appreciated however!
Check all lights.  Common missed item is the number plate lights (BOTH if
you have two)
Check all bulbs in the high level brake light
Remove fluffy dice, hanging rabbits and other items from the windscreen area
There are plenty of other simple items you can check and this is how.

Imagine you are buying the car and looking for ANYTHING that you could use
as a barganing point in securing a healthy discount. Exclude paintwork and
body trim condition (unless obviously dangerous, like a floating rubber door
protection guard, jagged and sharp metal work etc etc.) Exclude internal
trim and coverings but door ensure seats are firmly located.  It is very
difficult to advise but take a look at the following offical VOSA wesite.

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/ and more specifically
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/carlgvowners/mottesting/carcomponentstested.htm

Good luck

Nick /////
SteveH - 31 May 2006 22:45 GMT
> It's that time of year again, MOT time.  Now I know this time that my
> 1.2 2000 W Reg Punto (62k on the clock) won't pass, it drives like a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> again for a short time.  It seems to have a little 'give' however when
> not in use so I assume it can be corrected?

Check the level of the brake fluid. If it's fallen low, this will light
up the handbrake light as a warning. Technically you shouldn't have to
top it up as your pads wear down, but IME, you sometimes have to.

> Furthermore, less frequently, the front drivers side wheel seems to
> emit a high pitched squeaking noise, a 'cyclic' noise while driving.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> look for at all, or better still if the problem is even related to the
> brakes?

Sounds like the brakes dragging a bit and / or a small stone caught in a
pad.

> Otherwise I think it'll live.  Anything to check for would be
> appreciated however!

It'll probably be fine. Tough as old boots those things. Well, for a
Fiat, anyway ;-)
Signature

Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark - Fiat Marea 20v HLX -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

Nick  ///// - 01 Jun 2006 18:46 GMT
Ummm, why not?  As the pads wear the brake splave/caliper pistons will
extend in proportion to the mm of pad wear.  This will require more brake
fluid from the reservoir to fill the void.  Similary when replacing pads the
pistons have to be pushed back/returned into the cylinders an this often
requires brake fluid to be removed from the reservoir to stop it over
flowing.

Nick /////

> Check the level of the brake fluid. If it's fallen low, this will light
> up the handbrake light as a warning. Technically you shouldn't have to
> top it up as your pads wear down, but IME, you sometimes have to.
SteveH - 01 Jun 2006 19:04 GMT
>  Ummm, why not?  As the pads wear the brake splave/caliper pistons will
> extend in proportion to the mm of pad wear.  This will require more brake
> fluid from the reservoir to fill the void.  Similary when replacing pads the
> pistons have to be pushed back/returned into the cylinders an this often
> requires brake fluid to be removed from the reservoir to stop it over
> flowing.

Because, if the fluid is to the 'max' marker with a full set of new pads
on the car, the wear in the pads should never take the level below the
'min' level on the reservoir. If it's dropping below the 'min' level as
the pads wear, then one of 2 things have happened:

1. The brake fluid wasn't at the 'max' level the last time the pads were
changed.

or

2. There's a small leak somewhere in the system.

(If it was the case that you had to top up as the pads wore down, when
you put new pads in, you'd need to remove fluid.... which you shouldn't
have to do)
Signature

Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark - Fiat Marea 20v HLX -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

Nick  ///// - 02 Jun 2006 18:49 GMT
Understand and fair comment however Fiat handbooks say always keep toppped
up to MAX level so unless one rigorously notes actual mils topped up and
when, epsecially as a garage will never record this info, you never know how
much or little fluid is being used or lossed over x k miles.

Personally I always top-up to the reference levels and note when and how
much fluid (radiator or brake or pwr steering) went in.  This data sets the
normal usage/consumption rate so when extra top-ups are required I know that
something is not quite right.  Allows me to catch problems early on.

I actually used this sort of info to highlight a very small cooling fluid
loss on my Stilo Abarth.  No obvious visible loss or stains.  At my 3 year
/warranty service asked the garage to fully check the system.  No fault
found.  Then, 6 months later, out of warranty, after the dealer changed
hands, I noticed a small whisp of vapour on a cold evening in the headlight
beam.

Dealer didn't want to know, despite me pointing out I'd asked them to check.
Not their problem, new ownership etc. etc.

Had to replace the radiator myself.  This was no fun at all.  Major
surgery/parts removal required and when you get it all back you can't bleed
it as the bleed nipple is hidden.  Basically the battery, battery box, fuse
distribution unit, air box and airflow system have to be removed!  I spotted
this before reassembly and pressure bled the system, however with no pumped
water air locks still gathered in the heater matrix etc.

If people with Stilo Abarths are still reading and not fallen to sleep the
solution is easy but the root problem causes radiator failure!!!!!!!

I was/am, to my knowledge the first and only UK customer of ANY 5 cylinder
engine Fiat to have an engine completely replaced under warranty at less
than 3K miles / 1 month old where oil starvation etc were not involved.  All
credit to Fiat a full engine replacement was authorised.  No strip down and
inspect etc.  Ford would have had the engine in a 1000s pices over the
workshop floor looking for the rattle/noise that had developed.  NO THANK
YOU.

Anyway I suspect my radiator failure was due to the problem with bleeding
after the engine was replaced.  Had notcied a probable cooling problem and a
new thermostat was diagnosed, replaced and no doubt bleeding was again and
unspotted problem.

With the Stilo Abart (an possibly other Stilos) the top rad hose is some 3
inches below the top of the rad.  This cause the rad to have a very high
temperature differential at the water to air boundary and this eventually
results in stress fractures that leak very small amounts of water.  None of
this stressed arai is visible and you can pressure test till the cows come
home and not find the problem!

Nick /////

>>  Ummm, why not?  As the pads wear the brake splave/caliper pistons will
>> extend in proportion to the mm of pad wear.  This will require more brake
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> you put new pads in, you'd need to remove fluid.... which you shouldn't
> have to do)
 
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