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Car Forum / Fiat Cars / January 2004

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Punto clutch problem

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PJ - 27 Dec 2003 16:55 GMT
Fiat Punto SX 1108cc petrol (UK 'M' plate). Hydraulic clutch actuation.

It's my father's car, but I first noticed this problem while driving it a
week or so ago. I'm aware of the 'notchy' first gear issues with Puntos and
although I'd noticed it with this car, it wasn't much of a problem. But then
it started to get worse quite quickly, and then second became harder to get
too, and then harder still (pedal to the floor, pull hard on the shifter),
and then I started grinding third a couple of times going up the 'box.

Then my father had problems getting reverse too - rattling the teeth despite
having his foot to the floor. And finally today, first and second suddenly
became completely unobtainable while driving through town, with all the other
gears becoming somewhat 'occasional'. He got home attended by the distinct
aroma of burning clutch, having had to slip it like mad to make progress in
heavy traffic...

Googling through alt.autos.fiat, I came across a post describing a similar
problem which was traced to the clutch release bearing wearing a groove in
the pressure plate springs, with several eventually breaking completely. This
does sound like our problem, although earlier posts in the thread also
described nasty noises and pedal vibration, none of which we're experiencing.
I *think* I could hear a slight release-bearing-like squeak going on and
coming off the clutch, but it was very quiet and my father's hearing isn't
good enough to confirm this... (-:

I measured the cutch pedal travel yesterday as roughly 120mm from the centre
of the pedal (measured to a datum on the back of the steering wheel).

So, anyone recognise the symptoms? My parents live in a rural area and this
is their sole car, so we don't want to do anything more than absolutely
required to fix the problem - we don't want to split engine and 'box if a fix
or adjustment can be made from outside the bellhousing, for instance.

How easy is a clutch change in a Punto, given that it looks like the family
mechanic (me, in other words) is going to end up spending some of his festive
season crawling around on the driveway doing it?

TIA. (-:

PJ - considering lending his father his Cobra as temporary transport... (-:
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steve - 28 Dec 2003 12:49 GMT
since this is an hydraulic clutch firstly check the resevoir isn't empty of
fluid, it does sound to me like you may have a leak somewhere resulting in
air in the system, if it looks ok then get an assistant to help you "bleed"
the system to eliminate any air that may be present. since this is the
simplest job, check this before you condem the clutch unit itself.
also check around the clutch slave cylinder for any signs of leak, you will
have to pull back the rubber dust cover and take a look inside, and also
around the clutch pedal linkage where it is connected to the master
cylinder.
i think if any pressure plate blades were broken you would certainly hear
them rattling around in the bellhousing, however it is possible that they
may just be weak and thus not providing enough clearance to free the clutch
drive plate when the clutch is engaged. if this is the case then a
replacement is the only option.
hope this helps.
steve. uk

> Fiat Punto SX 1108cc petrol (UK 'M' plate). Hydraulic clutch actuation.
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> PJ - considering lending his father his Cobra as temporary transport... (-:
PJ - 28 Dec 2003 16:02 GMT
> since this is an hydraulic clutch firstly check the resevoir isn't empty of
> fluid,

It isn't.

> it does sound to me like you may have a leak somewhere resulting in air in
> the system,

This is what we thought to begin with, but we fiddled around for a while and
decided it was probably okay.

Does anyone know what the slave cylinder travel should be when the pedal is
fully depressed?

> if it looks ok then get an assistant to help you "bleed" the system to
> eliminate any air that may be present.

I may bleed just for the hell of it, to see what comes out...

> also check around the clutch slave cylinder for any signs of leak,

I investigated this. It's not so easy because the engine was losing oil
around the igniton coil bracket which has coated the bellhousing/'box with
oil. But there were no signs of anything fresh being layed down around the
cylinder...

> hope this helps.

Indeed. Thanks.

PJ.
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Ato_zee - 29 Dec 2003 07:27 GMT
> > too, and then harder still (pedal to the floor, pull hard on the
> > shifter),
> > and then I started grinding third a couple of times going up the 'box.

May not be the clutch, but rather the operating shaft rusted and frozen
almost solid. Problem is usually caused by exposure to road spray
(salty on gritted roads) over the years working its way down the shaft.
Check that when the clutch pedel is pressed the actuating arm and
shaft move freely. If not get a helper and start with a spray can with
extension tube of WD40 or a penetrating oil like 3in1; poke the thin
tube in the gap and spray in bursts while helper does the leg work.
Once you get it moving freely move on to something more robust than
WD40, spray synthetic grease, gearbox oil, or ordinary grease pushed
in the gap, something a bit fluid helps as it will work its way down the
shaft with time and useage.
Steven Campbell - 04 Jan 2004 09:16 GMT
> Fiat Punto SX 1108cc petrol (UK 'M' plate). Hydraulic clutch actuation.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> too, and then harder still (pedal to the floor, pull hard on the shifter),
> and then I started grinding third a couple of times going up the 'box.

My wife's car had very similar problems recently. It ended up that if she
put the clutch pedal fully depressed and engaged 1st gear which she had to
literally force in with both hands, the car would take up drive immediately
even although the pedal was fully depressed.

Took it to local friendly garage who initially bled the system but got no
improvement. A new clutch had to be put in to solve it.

HTH

Steven.
PJ - 06 Jan 2004 22:11 GMT
> Took it to local friendly garage who initially bled the system but got no
> improvement. A new clutch had to be put in to solve it.

Removed the gearbox today. Pretty much as described, half the clutch fingers
were broken, the other half were seriously grooved, and the release bearing
was seized/chewed up. And all that with no funny noises and no change in
clutch pedal feel...

... now just to get it all back together again. Anyone care to recommend a
particular brand of replacement clutch? (-:

Thanks for everyone's help/advice...

PJ.
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steve - 07 Jan 2004 17:22 GMT
borg and beck are reasonably good clutch units as are LUK.
but to be honest theres not much in terms of quality between cheap and
expensive ones. if driven with care a clutch unit should see a good 50,000
miles upwards.

> > Took it to local friendly garage who initially bled the system but got no
> > improvement. A new clutch had to be put in to solve it.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> PJ.
PJ - 08 Jan 2004 15:59 GMT
> borg and beck are reasonably good clutch units as are LUK.
> but to be honest theres not much in terms of quality between cheap and
> expensive ones. if driven with care a clutch unit should see a good 50,000

Thanks. I think he's just gone ahead and ordered whatever the Fiat dealer
wants to sell him... /-:

PJ.
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