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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Explorer / August 2004'97 5.0L AWD Limited slip rear differential
I had (have) a leak in my rear differential. I've replaced the pinion seal, and it was fine for a week or two, and then I noticed it leaking again. I was convinced by a friend that the groove on the flange wasn't supposed to be there, and that was why it was leaking. I've got a couple of questions: Does anyone who has replaced the flange know the Ford part number? I've received several part numbers from Ford, with one currently on order. I don't have confidence that they are going to get the correct part, but we'll see. The one I have coming is a E9TZ-4851-A. My Explorer is a '97 5.0L AWD V8 with the 3.73 limited slip differential. They asked me several times whether it was a locking, or non-locking, which I wasn't sure how to answer. "Whatever the AWD V8 with the 3.73 limited slip has" was my answer. I'm not really sure what they mean by locking or non-locking. 'Course, that might not matter since the dealer I ordered it from said that it is the same part whether it is locking or not. Wondering also what people are putting in that differential. I've had it serviced a few times, and don't have a clue what they put in it. The first time was by Ford, the 2nd by a local shop. After I had it done, I read in the manual that it had synthetic in it, and never needed to be changed. So why the heck did Ford change it as part of the 60k service. I HAD Amsoil 75W-140 limited slip synthetic in there, until it leaked. At that price, I went and got some cheap stuff until I get it fixed, at which time I plan to put the Amsoil in again. They said you can put in the differential additive, but you don't have to. What does everyone recommend? Finally, since I'm on the subject, what service should be done on the front, and what should I put in it? I haven't touched it - 115k miles. I also noticed while under there that the transfer case is leaking a bit, so I guess I need to at least top it off. Transmission fluid? OK, I guess I'll stop rambling now. Appreciate anyone's comments. Hopefully I'll get that flange replaced this weekend, and I won't have to think about it for another 100k miles. -Joe joeNOSPAMrizza@earthlinkDOTnet Joe, I have a 97 Exp EB with 302V8 AWD and 3.73 gearing and have changed the same seal successfully. Some comments: 1. There is a small tag bolted onto the diff cover that the dealer can ID the correct parts. Has never failed me. 2. Mine is a "Limited Slip" which means it has clutches. I don't think Ford provided a "locking" diff for these cars -not sure. The service manual has a test to see if the clutches are working. Involves disconnecting the driveline, jacking one rear wheel up and measuring torque to rotate the wheel. I think it must be 20 ft-lbs or more. 3. The driveline yoke can tolerate some wear ie a groove. Polish it out very smoothly and make sure new seal will seal effectively b4 installing. Oh yeah, make sure you get the proper preload in the yoke spindle nut. There is a procedure in the service manual. 4. Lube - now thats a story in itself. I had Randys Ring and Pinion in Seattle tell me to use ordinary "dino" oil of correct weight and MAKE SURE to add the Ford friction Modifier (Ford PN M-19546-A) because if the limited slip clutches. I'm still using synthetic only because the guy b4 me put it in at 100k miles. But, still need the modifier. 5. No recommendations on the Front diff lube. Book says something about '4 X 4 Fluid" .Transfer case does use Tranny fluid. Wouldn't hurt to change. Easy to do. 6. While I'm on subjest, I've changes 4 or 5 diff seals in my life and never had a leaker even with a small wear groove. Never likes to see but almighty $ prevailed. New parts are definitely flat w no groove. Hey - Good Luck. > I had (have) a leak in my rear differential. I've replaced the pinion > seal, and it was fine for a week or two, and then I noticed it leaking [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > -Joe > joeNOSPAMrizza@earthlinkDOTnet <Oops, hit reply by mail the first time - sorry> Thanks for the comments. I finally did get the correct part. I'll keep the tag in mind for next time. But I have the same setup that you do (except XLT). The part they ordered was the correct part, and I fought with it last night. The strange thing is that when I removed the driveshaft, I got some fluid dripping out. Then when I removed the yoke nut, I got a little more. It didn't look like the fluid leaked out from around the seal. The one thing I was not sure of was how far to force the flange into the spline. It's a TIGHT fit, and after using a block of wood and a hammer, I ended up putting the nut on and cranking it. I got it so the teeth are almost flush with the groove on the flange that the nut sits against. I wasn't sure how much force I should put on it. And I also was scratching my head trying to figure out how the fluid could have leaked THROUGH the teeth. I saw somewhere that you are supposed to change the nut when you do this job, but I didn't get one. Should I? I need to go out this morning and see if it is holding. When I did the seal, it lasted 2 weeks with no leaks, but the seal looked fine when I took it apart again. I'm running some cheap limited slip fluid now, until I know it's holding. Then I'll change it out again and refill with the Amsoil synthetic. They say you don't need the friction modifier, unless you get clatter, so I ordered some in case I need to add it. -Joe >Joe, > I have a 97 Exp EB with 302V8 AWD and 3.73 gearing and have changed the [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >> -Joe >> joeNOSPAMrizza@earthlinkDOTnet You definately need to know you have bearing pre-load correct. Many times I've seen the fluid leak at the pinion to be oil coursing it's way down the splines of the pinion and leaking out around the nut on the inside of the flange. This is because the pinion nut is not tight enough. And you can't just go and reef on it until it's tight. If the diff uses a crush sleave it may be necessary to replace that when replacing the seal. You tighten the nut and crush this sleeve behind the bearing, stopping when you reach the correct pre-load on the bearings. Takes a huge amount of torque to crush the sleeve so you know that the nut is absolutely tight against the flange and the flange against the inner bearing race, so no way for any oil to get out that way. If it does not use a crush sleeve bearing preload is adjusted by way of shims. Make if that's the case tighten the nut to the correct torque then measure bearing pre-load. If preload is not correct you may need to change some shims. This is all critical stuff to long diff life with no leaks. Steve g. > I had (have) a leak in my rear differential. I've replaced the pinion > seal, and it was fine for a week or two, and then I noticed it leaking [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > -Joe > joeNOSPAMrizza@earthlinkDOTnet Yep Yep Yep. Been there, done the deed and no T Shirt - Only dirty coveralls. I can fwd the Ford procedure to Joe if he's into it.Advise if interested. r/Jerry > You definately need to know you have bearing pre-load correct. Many times > I've seen the fluid leak at the pinion to be oil coursing it's way down the [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > -Joe > > joeNOSPAMrizza@earthlinkDOTnet <meant to post, not e-mail, sorry!> Aha! That is EXACTLY what is happening. So, now I have a shiny new flange in there that I probably did not need. As for the torque, I'd love to know what it is supposed to be. My manual, best I could tell, says 15 ft-lb, which sounded real low to me. Anyone have the real number? I don't see any type of crush sleave, but wonder if there is something special about the nut. It has something orange on the back of it where it contacts the flange. I was wondering if this was a seal of some sort at one time and I need to replace the nut, or if I just need to crank it down. OK, I give, how do you measure bearing pre-load?? Thanks, -Joe >You definately need to know you have bearing pre-load correct. Many times >I've seen the fluid leak at the pinion to be oil coursing it's way down the [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> -Joe >> joeNOSPAMrizza@earthlinkDOTnet If it's the crush sleeve type you were supposed to measure how much torque it took to REMOVE the nut. If my memory is correct it's in the 200 ft-lb range. Then, IF you reuse the same crush collar, you retorque it to whatever you measured when you removed it plus something like another 15 foot-lbs more. That may be the 15 ft-lb you saw. There is something in the procedure telling how to know if you can or can't reuse the collar. If you don't follow this procedure correctly the result could be that you wind up with a ruined pinion bearing and/or set of ring and pinion gears due to the wrong preload and lash. After I read the procedure I called Ford to see how much they wanted to do the work. They quoted around $200. The corner gas station said about $100. I never got around to it and the leak went away by itself (yes I have been checking the fluid level !!!!, it's still full) ><meant to post, not e-mail, sorry!> > [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] >>> -Joe >>> joeNOSPAMrizza@earthlinkDOTnet -- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts: "What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789 I don't think there is a crush sleeve. There is only the flange, which slips onto the sprocket, and the nut. That's it, other than the "dust guard" that is on the back of the flange. Now that I have the procedure I need to go read it in detail. Some other folks had Ford quote them $400 to change a $10 seal (which is where I started). 'Course, if I ruin the rear end then I guess the $400 would have been worth every penny! >If it's the crush sleeve type you were supposed to measure how much >torque it took to REMOVE the nut. If my memory is correct it's in the [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] >>>> -Joe >>>> joeNOSPAMrizza@earthlinkDOTnet Yikes! I did just about everything that the procedure said NOT to do, other than using power tools (didn't do that). I hammered the crap out of that flange to get it on. Then tightened with the nut. There *must* be a "collapsible spacer" integrated into the pinion nut. I think I need to get a new nut. But, since I never read the torque setting when I removed it, I need to use factory spec, but the procedure does not specify what that is. The procedure also doesn't show the magic tool they use to install the flange, so I'd love to know how you get it all the way on without using drastic measures. I've got several hundred miles on this thing, so hopefully I didn't do any real damage yet, and can just replace the pinion nut for 100k miles more of service! -joe >If it's the crush sleeve type you were supposed to measure how much >torque it took to REMOVE the nut. If my memory is correct it's in the [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] >>>> -Joe >>>> joeNOSPAMrizza@earthlinkDOTnet You are correct. there IS a collapable sleeve PN *4662. And there is no torque spec on the pinion nut. You tighten until you get the correct bearing preload, measured in INCH POUNDS about 15 of them. Keep at it, you'll get it. You might review the previous posts in this thread. Someone had the correct treatise on tightening the pinion nut early on. r/Jerry > Yikes! I did just about everything that the procedure said NOT to do, > other than using power tools (didn't do that). I hammered the crap out [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] > >>>> -Joe > >>>> joeNOSPAMrizza@earthlinkDOTnet |
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