 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Ford / Ford Explorer / December 2004Young Mr.Warman, another stumper for you.....Transmission and ABS, alternator
My Exploder (95,XLT/Control Trac) has had an irritating problem for a month now, and is excaserbated by the colder weather. Here goes: Hard shifting from 1-2, nice from 2-3, and 3-2. I can live with the hard shifting, but on the 2-1 downshift, it triggers my ABS, pulsing the pedal, almost like the ujoint is sloppy (both changed just 2bs). I used to adjust the modulator on my older fords, and am quite sure no such beast exists for the exploder. When fully warm (10 kms, or more) the problem disappears, although 1-2 upshift is still firmer than I like. No codes other than a 332 (egr underflow) everything else is aok. Just over 200k on the rig. Thoughts? PS another tiny problem: when cold, she is discharging, squealaing the belt, etc. Just leave the engine idle with no accessories and in 20 seconds, it will climb above half, and all is well. A right turn, or a bump can put it into discharge mode again squealing down the street, UNTIL I lift my foot off the accelerator, then it slowly climbs up. Pressing the gas makes it discharge again. When driven 3-4kms, the problem disappears, never to return until the next cold morning, then same thing like clockwork. Is it, in yer opinion: alternator(bad) or voltage regulator (cheap, and I have never found any parts cheap on the EX) Thanx JIM~!\ BarrytheDude "Young???" Mr. Warman?? Now I KNOW you're trying to butter me up 8^) I'll have to do some reading on your trans problem..... see if you can find out for sure if you have the A4LD or the 4R55. Do the usual checks, anyway (fluid level, condition, shift linkage) and it might be an idea to check mainline pressure if possible. Recommend a guage that reads to 500 psi and a good hose - most oil pressure master guages can handle this. On transmissions with high miles, I'm always a little reluctant to go too far with spot repairs. It doesn't take much to sink some serious coin into a specific repair only to find out later that the rest of the gearbox is getting ready to lie down. For your belt squeal/charging system woes, I'd check the FEAD belt and the tensioner. Chances are that the tensioner is either sticking or has weak spring tension. After a cold start is usually when the alternator is demanding it's highest HP load from the motor and, if the belt isn't being held taught, you'll get the squeal. HTH "Young??", ahhh.... makes an old farts heart warm.... > My Exploder (95,XLT/Control Trac) has had an irritating problem for a > month now, and is excaserbated by the colder weather. Here goes: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > the EX) Thanx JIM~!\ > BarrytheDude I only have the 4 spd auto, not sure, but did they not have a 5 spd auto as well? All the usual checks have been done, I changed the fluid in July, and all was drip free and clean. Regarding the belt squeal, Even when cold after an hour or two will it do what I illustrated. I can get the regulator on Monday and put in, but am not sure if the alternator might be more at fault, as is my luck, the most expensive item is usually what goes....belt, tensioner all appear fine, the belt is a year old... Thx Jim >"Young???" Mr. Warman?? Now I KNOW you're trying to butter me up 8^) > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> the EX) Thanx JIM~!\ >> BarrytheDude From your description, I agree with Jim. Either the tensioner isn't doing it's job or the belt is stretched or too hard to grip the pulleys. I think throwing money at an alt/reg would be a waste. H > I only have the 4 spd auto, not sure, but did they not have a 5 spd > auto as well? All the usual checks have been done, I changed the fluid [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > >> the EX) Thanx JIM~!\ > >> BarrytheDude I am thankful for all the suggestions, but it is not the pulley tensioner or belt, all is tight like a drum and works great warm. After an hour or two the sysmptoms described earlier persist. Something is making a negative charge situation, and draggind things down., >From your description, I agree with Jim. Either the tensioner isn't doing >it's job or the belt is stretched or too hard to grip the pulleys. I think [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >> >> the EX) Thanx JIM~!\ >> >> BarrytheDude If the belt is sqealing, it is slipping. You can remove the belt and see if any accessories are binding up.... the squeal you hear could be the crank sheave spinning in the belt - if the belt can't turn the alternato, it will show up as a low or no charge condition. Start it up and let it squeal for a few seconds..... shut it off and check which pulley(s) is hot.... be careful, the friction can make a sheave hot enough to injure in very short order. Look at this way.... your alternator is designed to produce on so much power and the belt system is designed to handle that designed load along with power steering input and AC operation (though some declutch the AC when PS demand is high). I'm understanding that the low charge rate and the squeal are going hand in hand..... is there something I'm missing? >I am thankful for all the suggestions, but it is not the pulley > tensioner or belt, all is tight like a drum and works great warm. > After an hour or two the sysmptoms described earlier persist. > Something is making a negative charge situation, and draggind things > down., I could never imagine you missing something JIM! The squeal is from the belt, to be sure, and happens when this mystery ALT load shows on my guage as an almost total discharge situation. Then as I let my foot off the gas, then press and squeal, then the guage goes slightly up, when it reaches a certain "point" on the guage (indicating charging again) all is quiet.....Strange, Eh? >If the belt is sqealing, it is slipping. You can remove the belt and see if >any accessories are binding up.... the squeal you hear could be the crank [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> Something is making a negative charge situation, and draggind things >> down., > I could never imagine you missing something JIM! The squeal is from > the belt, to be sure, and happens when this mystery ALT load shows on > my guage as an almost total discharge situation. What evidence do you have of a "mystery ALT load" other than the gauge showing discharge? It sounds like one possibility is that there is no Mystery ALT load but instead your alternator is locking up, or almost locking up. If it were to do that two things would happen, there would be a squeal and the alternator output would drop making your gauge drop too. When you take your foot off and let things slow down maybe that's letting the belt grab hold of the alt pulley again and start that tight alt moving again, squeal stops, voltage goes back up. It's also possible that a similar scenario is happening but the high load accessory is the AC or PS pump and the belt is slipping on the crank pulley making all the other accessories run slow with similar effects. I think someone suggested pulling the belt and seeing if any of the accessories see to be binding or dragging- that would be what I'd check next. >I could never imagine you missing something JIM! The squeal is from >the belt, to be sure, and happens when this mystery ALT load shows on [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>> Something is making a negative charge situation, and draggind things >>> down., -- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts: "What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789 No mystery... all the classic signs of a slipping belt. As AZGUY says, it could be one of the front engine accessories trying to pile up but I wouldn't make book on it being the alternator - it is very rare to see bearing problems on Fords alternators. More common might be the AC clutch bearing or the compressor itself. Anything... absolutely anything that causes the alternator to spin too slow will cause a low charge or discharge condition. That your belt is squealing is a sign that something is causing the belt to slip and slipping belts are turning something slower than t's supposed to. At this point in time, your low charge indication is nothing more than a symptom and has a very slim chance, indeed, of being a cause. There are some pointers cast into the tensioner.... two on one side of the swivel to indicate the "operating range" and a single pointer on the other side of the swivel - this single pointer should be between the other two. We can talk about this kind of stuff all day but nothing is going to get accomplished until someone, somewhere gets their hands dirty... Jim, speaking of alternators, I got a new crown Vic PI at work and the alternator has an over-running clutch on the pulley. Have you seen that on anything else? If so, any idea why they felt it was necessary? It puts out 125 amps at 800 rpm. We've put aftermarket super output alternators on other stuff and none of them ever had this clutch on them. >No mystery... all the classic signs of a slipping belt. As AZGUY says, it >could be one of the front engine accessories trying to pile up but I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >We can talk about this kind of stuff all day but nothing is going to get >accomplished until someone, somewhere gets their hands dirty... -- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts: "What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789 Yep... they've been around since 04 for sure and I think we'll start seeing more of them. It's designed to help eliminate any NVH concerns... the eternal quest to have the smothest, quietest cars on the road..... no matter how complicated they get. You have to admit that it's a pretty nifty deal. > Jim, speaking of alternators, I got a new crown Vic PI at work and the > alternator has an over-running clutch on the pulley. Have you seen > that on anything else? If so, any idea why they felt it was necessary? > It puts out 125 amps at 800 rpm. We've put aftermarket super output > alternators on other stuff and none of them ever had this clutch on > them. >Yep... they've been around since 04 for sure and I think we'll start seeing >more of them. It's designed to help eliminate any NVH concerns... the >eternal quest to have the smothest, quietest cars on the road..... no matter >how complicated they get. You have to admit that it's a pretty nifty deal. Lucky for me I didn't bet a lunch on what it was.....Seems like it's one more thing to break.... >> Jim, speaking of alternators, I got a new crown Vic PI at work and the >> alternator has an over-running clutch on the pulley. Have you seen >> that on anything else? If so, any idea why they felt it was necessary? >> It puts out 125 amps at 800 rpm. We've put aftermarket super output >> alternators on other stuff and none of them ever had this clutch on >> them. -- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts: "What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789 Me too. I would have bet that some heavier electronics would have done nicely to keep things in line...and a lot cheaper too. | >Yep... they've been around since 04 for sure and I think we'll start seeing | >more of them. It's designed to help eliminate any NVH concerns... the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] | to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House | of Representatives, August 17, 1789 I can get my hands dirty, I am married after all.....Ok, wrong point...I have taken the belt off, and nothing seems amiss. The compressor for the AC is NOT engaged when this happens, but there is a small clue...the lights sometimes have a small (extremely small) flicker, and 5-times out of ten, this triggers the low discharge, squeal. Something (alt or regulator) is thinking something needs a lot of juice or something.... If I can fix all these computers tonight, I plan on going to see if the new regulator I bought fixes the problem.... I bought wilson instead of dixie, I hope this is a good choice...... >No mystery... all the classic signs of a slipping belt. As AZGUY says, it >could be one of the front engine accessories trying to pile up but I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >We can talk about this kind of stuff all day but nothing is going to get >accomplished until someone, somewhere gets their hands dirty... My 92 sort of did that (power flickered and voltmeter dropped WAY down) when it was a couple years old. Just twice. Never figured out what it was and it stopped doing it. Almost like there was a massive short in something that pulled the voltage so low there wasn't even enough power to keep the engine running. Yet nothing burned up, no fuses blew, no wires melted. Maybe some sort of internal short in the alternator?? How consistently is yours doing this?? Consistent enough that you could simply disconnect the alternator wires and drive it for an hour or two and see if it still happens? >I can get my hands dirty, I am married after all.....Ok, wrong >point...I have taken the belt off, and nothing seems amiss. The [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >>We can talk about this kind of stuff all day but nothing is going to get >>accomplished until someone, somewhere gets their hands dirty... -- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts: "What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789 yes if I disconnect the alt, it discharges the same as the problem, that is why I bought a voltage reg yesterday. Hope to put it on tonight, even though the jobber said "I just dont sell them, they always come back, and its always the alternator" But 226 .00 as opposed to 12.00? hmm, let me think............. >My 92 sort of did that (power flickered and voltmeter dropped WAY >down) when it was a couple years old. Just twice. Never figured out [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House >of Representatives, August 17, 1789 I'm surprised that there are still stores that accept returns on electrical parts...... I'm even more surprised that people shop there. Imagine..... Joe Doofus has a problem in his car..... the framistan is fried...... he installs a new framistan from "Arts Eager to please parts". JDs problem fries the new framsitan. JD takes the newly pooched part back to Arts and, in frustration, takes his car to the shop (where the framistan is replaced after the initial problem is fixed). Billy-Joe Beergut has a pooched framistan with no other problems. He picks a new one up at Arts and that doesn't fix his problem...... in frustration, he returns the already faulty framsitan and takes his car to the shop.......... Seriously, there are ramifications to the process and, in the end, Art is the guy that's going to get shafted... since he's such a nice guy, it will be a loss to the community. I haven't seen a store that will accept electrical returns PERIOD for a long time. You're lucky.... > yes if I disconnect the alt, it discharges the same as the problem, > that is why I bought a voltage reg yesterday. Hope to put it on [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >>to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House >>of Representatives, August 17, 1789 I have seen one weird alternator related problem that might be worth investigation. Years ago I had an alternator that lost one of the diodes in the rectifier bridge. This caused some weird vibrations and some strange growling from the belt (it was a v-belt, not a serpentine). The alternator would charge the battery if you ran at speed, but it was "weak" at low speeds. Ed > My 92 sort of did that (power flickered and voltmeter dropped WAY > down) when it was a couple years old. Just twice. Never figured out [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House > of Representatives, August 17, 1789 |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.