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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Explorer / November 2004Jim Warman, I am still confused
Jim, or anybody that knows, I tried again today to make sense of the codes coming out of the OBD-1 , but since I have no real idea what it means, all I can do is ask what the series of numbers means. 5395391157157. Now, is it: 53 = Throttle sensor out of range; TP sensor circuit above maximum voltage 95 = Fuel pump circuit open, PCM to motor; fuel pump secondary circuit failure, PCM to ground 39= ? 11= system pass 57= ? 157= MAF Sensor circuit below minimum voltage I know I asked this before, but these numbers really don't mean a lot to me unless I can connect them to a corresponding system or component. Thanks IIRC, yours is a '92?? I'm going to assume that these are Continuous Memory codes rather than On Demand codes... bear in mind, codes can unwittingly be set when working around sensors and actuators. The 53 is for the TPS. The 95.... seems to me that one of your original complaints had to do with the fuel pump running continuously - if the relay contacts aren't opening when they should, this code can be generated. 39.... on OBD1 units, it was not uncommon to see "ghost" or undocumented codes... on some models, it indicated a problem with the trqe converter clutch but it's not listed in the '92 PC/ED. I'm not sure where the pass code works into the picture but 57 is listed as a missing octane adjust shorting bar or circuit problem. The PC/ED does make mention if the code shows up with an 11 or not..... OK... I just stared at your list a little harder.... 53 - continuous memory TPS problem 95 - continuous memory, fuel pump or circuit 39 - undocumented for your unit 11 - pass code, not sure on why it shows but it seems to matter 57 - CMDTC, octane shorting bar or circuit 1 - this a separator code and would show as a 10 on higher end scan tools 57 - On Demand code for octane shorting bar or circuit Since 57 is a hard (on demand) code, it should be attended to first. If the bar is missing, then move on to the first CMDTC (53). If the bar is installed, it MAY be a sign of PCM failure.... or not, so it must be checked out. Codes on early '90s stuff will either be ALL 2 digit or ALL 3 digit - you wont see any hodge-podges. If CMDTC 53 is recurring, there is the possibility that the high signal to the PCM is driving the fuel system into clear flood strategy and can result in a no start. HTH Okay, thanks, Jim. I knew you'd have an answer. I will have to see where this beast is and check it out. Since it's starting to get cold here, I need to get this dealt with pretty quick, and since I don't have a garage to work in, I have to make it even quicker. Any tips there? | IIRC, yours is a '92?? | [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] | | HTH Okay, I don't se anything on my list of OBD-1 codes listing #57 and no reference to an octane shorting bar/circuit. Wanna draw me a map so I can get started on this stuff? My books don't list such a beast. I was thinking about cleaning the MAF sensor to see if that would clear up the problem. If I am reading the description of it correctly, it might be possible to have it raise resistance and lower voltage available to drive the relays or related equip....just a guess though, and it seems to be a rather common problem that is easily remedied. What are your thoughts....seeing as I am handy and pretty technically oriented, but I haven't been a mechanic for like a bazillion years? Do they make an adapter that would patch the port to a laptop and software to read it? If not, someone ought to put one together. It'd certainly make life a lot easier Thanks again. | IIRC, yours is a '92?? | [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] | | HTH Okay, I cleaned the MAF sensor with carb cleaner, seeing as y'all do this a lot, and reinstalled it. The CEL went out and hasn't come back on yet. Crossing fingers, and waiting for Jim's opinion.. | Okay, I don't se anything on my list of OBD-1 codes listing #57 and no | reference to an octane shorting bar/circuit. Wanna draw me a map so I can [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] || || HTH My experience with dirty MAFs is the odd hard start but usually crappy idle, probably hesitation..... higher rpms are usually slower to exhibit problems because the MAF is relative reading (like a vacuum leak can cause a crappy idle but be a nonentity at high airflows). Ma Ford tells us cleaning the MAF is a no-no.... from a warranty standpoint, I can see their decision.... they want to avoid repeat visits for the same concern. From a retai standpoint, I have to know my customer - some will opt to clean the MAF with the undersanding that this may not be the cure..... others would rahter be assured of a onetime fix and go the big money route. I have seen cleaning the MAF work wonders...... What I don't see is cleaning the MAF having a lot to do with your codes...... seems to me I often mention clearing codes and driving the car to see what codes come back. Is there a chance you have a bunch of old codes? You're not so much fixing a car as fixing a computer.... logic, logic, logic. there is no cause for confusion, only cause for deeper thought. > Okay, I cleaned the MAF sensor with carb cleaner, seeing as y'all do > this a lot, and reinstalled it. The CEL went out and hasn't come back on [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > || > || HTH I had cleared the codes before running the vehicle a bit to warm it up and drive it around. Brought it back and put the reader to it. Those were the codes I got.. So, I did as you suggested, that is why I was asking your opinion of if it was possibly the problem or if I am waiting to see it come back. Trust me, I know how to follow directions. I gambled the MAF because it seems the one thing that has been common to a lot of posts here and on the website. Seeing as I is a po' boy, I have to watch my pennies. | My experience with dirty MAFs is the odd hard start but usually crappy idle, | probably hesitation..... higher rpms are usually slower to exhibit problems [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] | > || | > || HTH Okay, Jim, the light came on again. Seems it almost made it a whole day without going on, and it came on, went off after a few minutes, then went back on and stays on. So what do I check now, and how do I find it? | I had cleared the codes before running the vehicle a bit to warm it up | and drive it around. Brought it back and put the reader to it. Those were [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] || > || || > || HTH Scan codes and see which returned..... To give you an idea of the "accepted" diagnostic routine. If there are any "hard" codes (such as your 57), these get serviced FIRST... before doing anything else. If the 57 is still present as an on demand code, it HAS to be addressed first since whatever is causing the hard code may deliver other codes. If there are no hard codes, we note any continuous codes and try to reproduce them by driving the car. The CEL is offering valuable clues and we need to take advantage of them. If you truly want to mind your pennies, you will avoid gambles and resort to tried and true diagnostic procedures. > Okay, Jim, the light came on again. Seems it almost made it a whole day > without going on, and it came on, went off after a few minutes, then went [quoted text clipped - 148 lines] > || > || > || > || HTH Well, the 57 you addressed doesn't exist in my manuals, hence it doesn't address how to repair it or even how to find what this problem is. Got a road map to tell me where to look for this beast? I still need to get out and warm up the vehicle and scan it to see what it says, but with the snow flying and a snowblower on the fritz, everyone is more concerned about the bloody snowblower than the vehicle that fetches the parts and groceries. So, draw me a road map and I'll get to working on it, otherwise I'm up a creek without a paddle / clue. Thanks, Jim | Scan codes and see which returned..... To give you an idea of the "accepted" | diagnostic routine. If there are any "hard" codes (such as your 57), these [quoted text clipped - 159 lines] | > || > || | > || > || HTH Jim, I cleared the codes again and checked them, again. This time the 57 doesn't appear ( still have no idea what it is) My book ( the one that came with the scanner ) gives me 57 as a NPS open circuit failure or circuit failed in neutral position, or octane adjust pin. Any ideas where I find these so when it appears again I can fix it? The codes now are 53, 95, and 39 53 = TPS reading too high (wide open )....obviously this is wrong, as I am idling at about 900RPM 95 = Thermactor Air System problem- passenger side air flow always upstream (????) or ( my best guess ) FPM signal - indicates circuit problem ( related to the TPS reading problem? ) 39 = Transaxle problem: Lock-Up failed in torque converter or converter bypass clutch not applying properly ( I figure I don't have a transaxle, so it would indicate the latter rather than the former ) These are things I have no clue about. Much more complicated than the machines I worked on years ago as a mechanic. Things were so much simpler then, and gas was only 32 cents a gallon. (sigh) | Well, the 57 you addressed doesn't exist in my manuals, hence it doesn't | address how to repair it or even how to find what this problem is. [quoted text clipped - 194 lines] || > || > || || > || > || HTH I've been working with the 1992 Ford Service DVD..... not sure what documentation you have. The octane shorting bar connector is a 2 wire connector near the data link connector (the one you plug your scanner into).... the wires should be dark green and grey with red trace. There should be a small plastic coated shorting connector bridging these 2 wires. There is the possibility someone has pulled the connector to alleviate engine ping. The TPS tells the PCM where the throttle plates are positioned, whether they are moving, what direction they are moving and how fast they are moving. (oops, that should be singular for the Ex). This sort of failure (showing WOT) can cause all manner of running problems and even a hard or no start. Could be TPS, could be wiring, could be PCM..... Is this an on demand code or is this a memory code (before or after the separator code - the single "1", remember?). Diagnostics can differ for each case..... 95, according to the factory manual, is fuel pump circuit related. I'm not going to keep repeaing myself. My manual was last revise for January 2004. 39 is still an undocumented code and, as such, without being sure f a running problem to match the code, I would get too carried away with it. Codes are ALWAYS addressed in the order they are retrieved unless the bible says different. Additionally, on demand codes are addressed before memory codes. > Jim, I cleared the codes again and checked them, again. This time the > 57 [quoted text clipped - 264 lines] > || > || > || > || > || > || HTH Thanks, Jim. Please be patient, I'm still trying to get used to this thing. First vehicle I've had that was dependent upon a computer, let alone, no distributor, carburetor, etc. Still trying to wrap my brain around this stuff. I mostly deal with computers day to day, and unless it is right in front of me in black and white, all nicely flow-charted, complete with schematics, I tend to get a tad lost, and I need all the hand holding I can get, especially since there isn't any money in the budget ( a budget requires money ) to have a shop and a competent mechanic look at it. I just have to make do. I'll get there eventually, trust me. I had no idea what I was getting into when I bought this thing. My last vehicle was with me for 12 years and 225,000 miles, and I got it the same year this one built. With any luck, it will last me as long (crossing fingers ). | I've been working with the 1992 Ford Service DVD..... not sure what | documentation you have. [quoted text clipped - 290 lines] | > || > || > || | > || > || > || HTH Oops! I forgot to mention, there were no separator codes. No 1's, just long pauses. I guess since these particular codes continue to appear, they need to be addressed, no? So, the next question. Is there a fail safe mode available when these systems fail, or is a guy basically stranded. I think the latter scares the daylights out of me as I tend to travel a lot, and long distances, at night ( people tend to need me to be on site the next morning at 8AM. ). Not a lot of help available in those locations or that time of night. Fortunately ( or not, depending on your perspective ) this is the slow time of year for me. | I've been working with the 1992 Ford Service DVD..... not sure what | documentation you have. [quoted text clipped - 290 lines] | > || > || > || | > || > || > || HTH Some failures will just keep the PCM from going into closed loop(closed loop operation is when the PCM is using feedback from the O2 sensor(s) to fine tune fuel delivery). Some failures will cause the PCM to adopt FMEM strategy (failure mode effects management).... the so-called "limp in" mode. Still other failures can leave you dead in the water....... basically not much different than a carburetted car. Hopefully I wont oversimplify here.... the PCM gathers information from various sensors - engine rpm (on yours, the crank position sensor), engine load, throttle position, engine temp... amongst others. From these inputs it performs some computations to achieve what it's program decides is the optimum fuel mixture and timing advance. If the PCM is in open loop, it works on learned fuel and advance numbers stored in KAM (keep alive memory) - in closed loop, it will fine tune those numbers to achieve low emissions. If your TPS is pooched, the PCM can infer throttle setting from how much air is passing through the MAF sensor and rpm, but reading these sensors and making the computations takes time. If it can look at the TPS, it has a good idea of what's coming and can start making it's adjustments earlier. If you're not seeing a separator code, it could be that you aren't waiting long enough or terminating the test early. The first codes you get are memory codes... problems the computer has seen but may not be present at the time of the test. After the separator code, the computer will go into the on demand test and show if it sees anything wrong at that time. If you have memory codes and no hard (on demand) codes, it is time to run the KOER test..... codes retrieved during this test are on demand codes and should be addressed before memory codes. Since you work in computers, you must realize that the computer wants things done a particular way and it will win. > Oops! I forgot to mention, there were no separator codes. No 1's, just > long pauses. I guess since these particular codes continue to appear, they [quoted text clipped - 372 lines] > | > || > || > || > | > || > || > || HTH Okay....now I'm slowly catching on here, but at least we seem to both be night owls...this is good. Okay, the codes were spit out without any separator codes...repeated themselves, and after 5 minutes, I figured it wasn't going to tell me anything else. Now that I understand that these are memory codes, and they are spewed out first (LIFO?) that makes things a little less complicated. I can begin to grasp how to differentiate. So, I need to move to the next test, engine running, and see what it spews out. If I am correct in understanding what you are telling me, these will tell me what else is going on that needs attention? There was another question here on PCM replacement. The man wanted to know if the numbers on his PCM were specific or if one he saw on E-Bay would work. My thoughts were that it probably would, but then, what do I know. I know I am interested in knowing too, as I have a client that can /will supply me with a replacement from his yard, since he has the early model Explorers. Since mine is an EB would that make a difference or would any PCM from a 4.0 of that vintage work. Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks | Some failures will just keep the PCM from going into closed loop(closed loop | operation is when the PCM is using feedback from the O2 sensor(s) to fine [quoted text clipped - 405 lines] | > | > || > || > || | > | > || > || > || HTH |
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