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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Explorer / May 2005Bad Dealer? Am I Making a Mountain Out Of A Molehill?
I took my 2003 Mercury Mountaineer to my local Ford dealer today for service (the L-M dealer is further away so I figured that a Mountaineer is the same thing as an Explorer). When I got there, I told them I wanted the tires rotated and the oil changed. I pointed out that the vehicle called for synthetic blend oil and that the air pressures had to be adjusted since it gets 30F/35R. When the vehicle was done, the service writer asked me if I wanted the vehicle washed while she did the paperwork. It was relatively clean, but I figured "what the heck". 10 minutes later they were done and I paid the $34.95 for "The Works". When I went out to my vehicle, it was sopping wet everywhere. They told me that they use a spotless system blah blah blah. I asked them if they delivered new and used cars this way and she said "yes, but we put them out a few hours a head of time to dry in the sun". I pointed out that this is Pittsburgh and we get 52 days of sun here. When I got home, I decided to check the tire pressure. I found that, yes, they HAD rotated the tires...because there was now 35F and 30R. I am RELIGIOUS about my tire air since my previous 1999 Explorer/Firestone tires. Anyway, I called the dealership and told them I was they guy unhappy about the wet car and that they did not adjust the air pressure. And I wondered if they REALLY used the correct synthetic blend oil (I can see from the dipstick that it is at least NEW oil). The serviced writer credited back my credit card which I was pleased about. But I'd rather PAY and get it right than get a refund and wonder. Should I complain further up the Ford food chain? Will someone get a reprimand (or worse) for failing to adjust tire pressure with the rotation. Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford is becoming a second-class automotive citizen? You may want to bypass the service writer and speak to the service manager. If the person rotating the tires is not switching the air pressure, then he's not even checking any tire air pressures period, which is one item too many vehicle owners don't do and rely on the service dept to do. And who knows what else the tech is not doing. wth >I took my 2003 Mercury Mountaineer to my local Ford dealer today for >service (the L-M dealer is further away so I figured that a Mountaineer is [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > rotation. Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford is > becoming a second-class automotive citizen? I think I am going to bypass the dealer period. Jiffy Lube gets a bad rap by some, but at least they let you WATCH exactly what they are doing. Actually, my experiences there have been good. > You may want to bypass the service writer and speak to the service > manager. If the person rotating the tires is not switching the air [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> rotation. Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford >> is becoming a second-class automotive citizen? That would be a big mistake!!! Jiffy Lube's mistakes will make your 5 pound air pressure issue seem truly trivial. I have yet to find a Ford dealer who denied me access to their shop while they did anything to my cars... >I think I am going to bypass the dealer period. Jiffy Lube gets a bad rap >by some, but at least they let you WATCH exactly what they are doing. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >>> rotation. Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford >>> is becoming a second-class automotive citizen? >That would be a big mistake!!! Jiffy Lube's mistakes will make your 5 pound >air pressure issue seem truly trivial. I take my car to Jiffy Lube, but I watch them to make sure the put the right oil in, and all that. What bothers me is that every time I go in, there is a different staff. Sometimes led by someone who seems to know what they're doing, and who checks on the other staff. Ten years ago, I used to go to a Jiffy Lube which had the same staff all the time, and I know they did excellent, responsible work. That lasted for quite a few years. Then one day when I came in -- all new staff, manager, etc. All pretty dumb. A year ago, at a different JL, I was talking to a 'regional manager' who was proud of the fact that he had "improved" that previous JL above, by basically replacing everybody, because they "hadn't moved forward with the industry and the company". !!!! I hope the company is happy with this kind of management. Unfortunately, I suppose it is. Anyway, I'd rather stand and watch the JL people work on my car than sit in the waiting room at a dealer, and wonder what the heck they are/aren't doing! >I have yet to find a Ford dealer who denied me access to their shop while >they did anything to my cars... [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >>>> rotation. Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford >>>> is becoming a second-class automotive citizen? Alan Moorman The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory. Paul Fix ================================= As an aside, I'd be mad if I paid $34.95 for a carwash, especially if I only found out the price afterwards. Major ripoff if you ask me. Since you got a refund for the other work, what else do you expect? I'd think the credit would be under someone's scrutiny to find out why and how it came to be. If not, complaining is probably of little value because they just aren't paying attention to details anywhere in the organization. You likely will get a survey postcard or phonecall. Let 'em know then. that survey postcard is a scam. the dealer calls first to insure that you are happy. if not, you probably won't get a postcard. at least, that's the way it has been working for me. As an aside, I'd be mad if I paid $34.95 for a carwash, especially if I only found out the price afterwards. Major ripoff if you ask me. Since you got a refund for the other work, what else do you expect? I'd think the credit would be under someone's scrutiny to find out why and how it came to be. If not, complaining is probably of little value because they just aren't paying attention to details anywhere in the organization. You likely will get a survey postcard or phonecall. Let 'em know then. > I took my 2003 Mercury Mountaineer to my local Ford dealer today for service > When I got home, I decided to check the tire pressure. I found that, yes, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford is becoming a second-class > automotive citizen? Personally I think tire pressure and engine oil can be very important and I would keep pestering them until I got a satisfying response. I'd start with the manager and keep going upwards until I found the right person to complain to. Maybe the guy who rotated your tires was new and forgot the check the pressure. The last time I had my tires rotated I also had a flat due to the tire momentarily seperating from the rim while driving through deep mud. I generally keep my tires at about 32 psi. When I got home I checked them and they had filled them to 35 psi. Normally this would be overinflating but under the circumstances it seems like it would help prevent my particular problem (it happened to me twice within two weeks). Now that it's stopped raining I'll lower my tire pressure again. My point is that they should have adjusted the tire pressure and they should be required to be able to think to keep their job. Keep in mind tire pressue goes up while driving. Depending on how long you drove, Cold 32 PSI could easily change to 35 PSI by the time you got home since the tires could have warmed considerably. As an aside, does anyone know what temperature should your tires be at when trying to match the PSI recommendations on the door sticker? > > The last time I had my tires rotated I also had a flat due to the tire > momentarily seperating from the rim while driving through deep mud. I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > have adjusted the tire pressure and they should be required to be able to > think to keep their job. > Keep in mind tire pressue goes up while driving. > Depending on how long you drove, Cold 32 PSI could easily change to 35 PSI > by the time you got home since the tires could have warmed considerably. > > As an aside, does anyone know what temperature should your tires be at when > trying to match the PSI recommendations on the door sticker? Ambient/cold H > Keep in mind tire pressue goes up while driving. > Depending on how long you drove, Cold 32 PSI could easily change to 35 PSI > by the time you got home since the tires could have warmed considerably. I guess I should have said "the next morning" instead of "when I got home." I always check them cold. > As an aside, does anyone know what temperature should your tires be at when > trying to match the PSI recommendations on the door sticker? Good question. Makes me want to go check my tires early in the morning when it's still cool outside and then again after they've been sitting in the hot sun all day just to see what the difference is. > > > The last time I had my tires rotated I also had a flat due to the tire > > momentarily seperating from the rim while driving through deep mud. I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > have adjusted the tire pressure and they should be required to be able to > > think to keep their job. In my Ranger, I found the difference to be just about one pound increase for every ten degrees of air temp increase. Steve > Good question. Makes me want to go check my tires early in the morning > when > it's still cool outside and then again after they've been sitting in the > hot > sun all day just to see what the difference is. Daryll.... how many places are you going to kvetch about this??? I stand by my previous answer..... someone neglected, for whatever reason, to adjust your tire pressures accordingly. Part of the human condition is the overwhelming ability to f.ck up once in a while. As far as I can see, the tire pressure is the only valid complaint. Go beyond that and everything you say will be discounted. Heaven forbid that anyone would have the balls to use water to wash your car... AND give you a service for FREE!! > I took my 2003 Mercury Mountaineer to my local Ford dealer today for service > (the L-M dealer is further away so I figured that a Mountaineer is the same [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford is becoming a second-class > automotive citizen? OK, OK! Yeah, yeah! > Daryll.... how many places are you going to kvetch about this??? > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford is becoming a second-class >> automotive citizen? I mean it does sound like they did everything you asked them to do, they just got the order of things wrong. I mean it happens. It doesn't sound like they intentionally screwed things up, on purpose to be vindictive. They didn't cover anything up either. If you can find a shop that won't do any of those two things, then you are probably onto a winner. Paul > OK, OK! Yeah, yeah! > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >>> second-class >>> automotive citizen? > Daryll.... how many places are you going to kvetch about this??? > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford is becoming a second-class >> automotive citizen? Jim, that's pretty harsh. I think he has a complaint about the service that is valid. If he asked them to do something, and they did not, he has a reason to question if they did all of it the way he asked. Since the dealer refunded the money for the service, I would just take it back and have them change the oil again. The problem with them refunding the money is that you still don't know if they put the right oil in. I would have let them keep the money and just asked that the work be performed again for the piece of mind. After all, he paid the dealer to do the work, and it should have been right. As for the cas wash, it really sould have been dried off. My .02, which don't mean crap. Getting the air pressure right in the tires IS too much to ask. I'm not sure why, but this procedure seems to be beyond the capabilities of many automotive techs ... something in their genes, I suspect. With deference to Jim Warman, who I am sure is an exception, I see so many cases in which tires pressure is wrong from dealerships and other shops. My 95 year old father screams about this all the time. Even when he buys new tires, the pressure is wrong. (And he tells them ahead of time that he expects the pressure to be set correctly!!!!!!) My old girlfriend got her new Camry with something like 12 pounds in the right front tire. I don't think you are wrong the yell about this. You paid for proper service. You relied on their expertise and for their interest in giving your vehicle proper care. And they got it wrong ... not because they don't have the technical know-how, but because they just don't give a damn. Not checking the tire pressure when rotating the tires is not a mistake. It's bad, lazy work. Had you not checked it, you would have been driving around like that. It should have you wondering what else they don't give a damn about. (Leaving your vehicle wet was sloppy as well.) Tire pressure is something you have to check yourself. ((In fact, you should do most service yourself, including oil changes, if you can. It will save you money and make you feel good! And most of all, it will be done right!!!!!!) And now you seriously should be wondering if they properly torqued the lug nuts when they rotated the tires. I suggest you get yourself a torque wrench and socket if you don't have them and check the nuts. Otherwise, in a few months you may well be back in there replacing rotors. (And recheck them after 500 miles or so anyway.) Good luck.  SignatureRegards, Anthony Giorgianni The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back to the newsgroup. > I took my 2003 Mercury Mountaineer to my local Ford dealer today for service > (the L-M dealer is further away so I figured that a Mountaineer is the same [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford is becoming a second-class > automotive citizen? When my Dad was alive, I could always tell when he'd been to KwikeeLoob. He'd phone (not collect, thankfully) and ask how many grease nipples his car had.... Stock answer was "Four, Dad... go back and get them to do the other two...". In defference... powder balancing is popular in some areas. In many. not installing the correct valve stems for powder balanced tires is also "de riguer"... checking the pressure on these can induce a leak. In other areas, customer demand is for "cheap" rather than "good".... the QC550 form has spaces for tire pressure measurements.... if they look round, am I getting paid enough to check the pressures??? I do... but then, I'm an anal retentive.... We see two general battle cries.... either "it cost too much" or "it wasn't good" (sometimes combined). For my part, I get paid for what I do... I strive to do those things very well. If you are looking for cheap, it ain't me..... if you are looking for "cost effective", it probably is me. Thanks for the lead in, Anthony. > Getting the air pressure right in the tires IS too much to ask. I'm not sure > why, but this procedure seems to be beyond the capabilities of many [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford is becoming a second-class > > automotive citizen? >When my Dad was alive, I could always tell when he'd been to KwikeeLoob. >He'd phone (not collect, thankfully) and ask how many grease nipples his car >had.... Stock answer was "Four, Dad... go back and get them to do the other >two...". > >In defference... powder balancing is popular in some areas. I've never heard of "powder balancing". What is it?? As to any place that changes my oil and rotates my tires, I always tell them to leave the tire pressure alone. I'll check it and get it right myself, just because I've seen so many techs get it wrong. Alan Moorman The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory. Paul Fix ================================= To answer your question as simply as possible. Yes. Yes you are. You got your money back. If you are not happy with this dealer, find another one. You made your concerns known to the dealer. If you write Ford Corporate, you'll get a form letter back promising the world and thanking you for your concerns. How valuable is your time? >I took my 2003 Mercury Mountaineer to my local Ford dealer today for service >(the L-M dealer is further away so I figured that a Mountaineer is the same [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford is becoming a second-class >automotive citizen? > I took my 2003 Mercury Mountaineer to my local Ford dealer today for service > (the L-M dealer is further away so I figured that a Mountaineer is the same [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > a mountain out of a molehill? Is THIS why Ford is becoming a second-class > automotive citizen? I'd just be happy they refunded your money and never go there again. Maybe the loss of money will cause them to reprimand the clown who didn't bother with the correct air pressures. > I took my 2003 Mercury Mountaineer to my local Ford dealer today for service > (the L-M dealer is further away so I figured that a Mountaineer is the same [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > The serviced writer credited back my credit card which I was pleased about. > But I'd rather PAY and get it right than get a refund and wonder. So what's stopping you? Take it somewhere else and have it done again. Should I > complain further up the Ford food chain? Will someone get a reprimand (or > worse) for failing to adjust tire pressure with the rotation. Or am I making > a mountain out of a molehill? You ended up with a free tire rotation and oil change and you still want to raise a stink? Have you never made a mistake or forgotten something? Do you think the consequences should be dire everytime you do? Sheesh.... Concerning the wash job, you got more than you paid for. |
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