Need help from the group. My vehicle A/C has been working
fine this summer. Over the last week or two I have noticed a rise in
the temperature the A/C outputs into the passenger compartment of my
vehicle.
Today I thought I would take a simple step and try to add refrigerant
to the system. I hooked up one of those handy all in one refill cans
that has a gauge with color code. I hooked up the cheap gauge to the
low side of the system and the initial indication is in the red
meaning serious problem with the system.
I decided not to put any refrigerant in the system. I am now trying
to gather as much info as possible from the group as to what my
problem might be, etc.
I have used those recharge cans before on other vehicles and they are
in the ballpark as far as reading the status. (please do not point
out to me how inferior these cans are.)
Anyway I look forward to your help in my troubleshooting/solving
endeavor.
Thanks,
Sam in Raleigh
carbide@egine.com - 29 Jul 2006 04:50 GMT
> Need help from the group. My vehicle A/C has been working
> fine this summer. Over the last week or two I have noticed a rise in
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> low side of the system and the initial indication is in the red
> meaning serious problem with the system.
What does red mean- too much pressure? That would indicate some sort
of blockage, I should think. How that could happen on the low side of
the system beats me. Maybe it was overfilled in the past?
-Paul
Jim Warman - 29 Jul 2006 05:54 GMT
Now... how can I avoid telling you how inferior these cans are yet tell you
how to reliably and effectively repair your system?
Your can "tells" you that there is a serious problem with your system....
Taking the can back for a refund and having the system repaired correctly is
a viable option.
In the shop, we use some simple tests to determine our course of action...
none of which include "topping off" the system. If the system is low there
is a leak. Without proper testing, there is no way to judge the severity.
There are other possible causes as well. Without the proper knowledge you
run the risk of adding more damage to the system as well as releasing
compounds into the atmosphere that could affect future generations.
For troubleshooting, I can only suggest that you gain a working knowledge of
the system before you attempt further repairs.
> Need help from the group. My vehicle A/C has been working
> fine this summer. Over the last week or two I have noticed a rise in
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Sam in Raleigh
Sam - 29 Jul 2006 06:43 GMT
>Now... how can I avoid telling you how inferior these cans are yet tell you
>how to reliably and effectively repair your system?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>For troubleshooting, I can only suggest that you gain a working knowledge of
>the system before you attempt further repairs.
Look why did you reply to my post. How helpfull have you been? Are
you that person at work that finds something wrong with everything
that anyone does?
Proper testing as you say is something that is understood in the back
of my mind. I have spent thousands of dollars to pay someone such as
yourself. I merely figured that I could get some feedback from
people about what kinds of problems they have seen in the past with
the symptoms being High Pressure on the low side. That is it. Not a
lecture on how back yard mechanic my method is and what the correct
way to troubleshoot the problem is.
I am so glad you made me aware of my options and the possible problems
that I may encounter if I continue. I had no idea.......NOT.
Thank you but no thanks.
Sam in Raleigh.
To the others who posted a reply...THANK YOU.
Jim Warman - 30 Jul 2006 01:00 GMT
My reply was, by no means, a lecture... when I lecture someone, they
generally know they have been LECTURED.
My advice stands... gain a working knowledge of the system... if you want to
fix it, you HAVE to know how it works.
If you look back, you did not mention anything about "high pressure on the
low side"... this makes me bad??? If there is high pressure on the low side,
it is going to be nothing higher than static pressure. At this time it would
be real handy to know what the high side pressure is - but, since you appear
to be an expert. there is no need of this piffling information... I'm bad...
You don't mention if the clutch is engaging or not.... this also makes me
bad....
Your original post is almost totally bereft of the information that will
lead to a timely repair of your concern.... You are now in the realm of "it
COULD be this" or "it COULD be that". Enjoy...
>>Now... how can I avoid telling you how inferior these cans are yet tell
>>you
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> To the others who posted a reply...THANK YOU.
kc10 - 29 Jul 2006 14:37 GMT
Make sure that you are connected to the "low" side of the system. On
my 93 it is on the paassenger side, near the fuse box and has a blue
cap.
> Need help from the group. My vehicle A/C has been working
>fine this summer. Over the last week or two I have noticed a rise in
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
>Sam in Raleigh
Sam - 29 Jul 2006 18:36 GMT
Hey thanks. It is on the passenger side on my 94 also.
Thanks for the help!!
Sam in Raleigh
>Make sure that you are connected to the "low" side of the system. On
>my 93 it is on the paassenger side, near the fuse box and has a blue
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>>
>>Sam in Raleigh
Ashton Crusher - 29 Jul 2006 21:44 GMT
> Need help from the group. My vehicle A/C has been working
>fine this summer. Over the last week or two I have noticed a rise in
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>low side of the system and the initial indication is in the red
>meaning serious problem with the system.
Is it red showing high or red showing too low a pressure. When you
lose freon it can make the low side go lower and I suppose they could
show that as a low side red zone. If you feel the metal parts of the
hose assembly as each pipe comes out of the compressor the high side
should be hot and the low side should be relatively cool to cold. You
can also feel the pipes where they go into the evap case by the
firewall. The high pressure should be hot just before it gets to the
junction where the orifice tube is and on the other side of the
orifice tube it should be cold. If it's not pretty hot right on the
inlet side but seems relatively cool it could indicate a restriction
upstream in the high side. Don't recall if you can feel both sides on
the 94's, I know I can on my S-10. You can also feel the outlet pipe
from the evap and it should be roughly the same temp as the cold side
on the input side. My memory says that if it seems significantly
warmer in the outlet it's probably low on freon.
The other thing to look at is the amount of cycling the system is
doing. If all is well and you run the engine at 2000 rpm and it's a
moderate temperature day the clutch should cycle several times a
minute. If it's really hot it might not cycle at all unless you are
spraying water on the condenser. They cycle when the low side
pressure drops below around 24 psi and come back on when it goes up to
about 40 psi. The pressure is pretty close to the temp the evap core
is at. So you see if you average 24 and 40 you get right at 32
degrees. Just at the freezing point of water. If it gets low on
freon the pressures go low and on moderate temp days it can make the
core too cold and that's why cars with low freon charges may freeze up
on moderate temp fairly humid days.
>I decided not to put any refrigerant in the system. I am now trying
>to gather as much info as possible from the group as to what my
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Sam in Raleigh
Ulysses - 30 Jul 2006 02:46 GMT
> > Need help from the group. My vehicle A/C has been working
> >fine this summer. Over the last week or two I have noticed a rise in
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Is it red showing high or red showing too low a pressure. When you
> lose freon
Freon. Isn't this the key word here? Doesn't a '94 have R12 in it? Isn't
it really, really bad to put R232 or whatever it's called in a Freon system
without completely evacuating it first?
Are we sure we have the right stuff?
it can make the low side go lower and I suppose they could
> show that as a low side red zone. If you feel the metal parts of the
> hose assembly as each pipe comes out of the compressor the high side
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> >
> >Sam in Raleigh
Tommy Wood - 30 Jul 2006 15:10 GMT
The 1993 model year was the last Explorer year to have R-12.
The 1994 should have R-134A.
> Freon. Isn't this the key word here? Doesn't a '94 have R12 in it?
> Isn't
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Are we sure we have the right stuff?
Sam - 31 Jul 2006 11:43 GMT
Well turns out the system was actually low on R-114. The reading on
the cheap gauge was not accurate because of an issue with the low side
tap on the evaporator.
I found my hoses that goes to my gauges and hooked them up. Seems
that there is an issue with the needle valve on the evaporators tap.
Weird though as I cannot replace that valve.
Isnt that valve replaceable on 94 Evaporator??? I tried backing it
out but the needle valve tool that one uses to back the needle back
out caught onto nothing and it did not turn.
Needless to say once I charged the system the A/C was cold again.
Now I am worried about the low side tap leaking.
I guess I need to buy another evaporator since I cannot get the needle
valve out to replace it????
Making progress...at least the air is COLD since this week the temps
will be 100 with heat indexes of 110. Just worried about the system
leaking over time.
Sam in Raleigh.
Thanks everyone for your feedback!!!
Sam - 31 Jul 2006 16:24 GMT
>Well turns out the system was actually low on R-114. The reading on
>the cheap gauge was not accurate because of an issue with the low side
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Weird though as I cannot replace that valve.
>Isnt that valve replaceable on 94 Evaporator???
Apparently this is the receive/dryer and not the Evaporator. I had
some conflicting information for parts identification.
The receiver/dryer has a defective needle valve and I am unable to
replace it. Some times the needle valve seats properly thus when I
put liquid on the tap to check for moisture leaks nothing bubbles up
but sometime after removing gauge hose the needle valve does not seat
properly and I have to insert a small pin tip to push it down and
allow it to spring back up to eventually the correct position.
This apparently is a suspected leak. Also not sure of the history of
this device as it is rather shiny kind of looking like it was replaced
by the original owner with hopefully the correct item.
Anyway just wanted to throw more info at you about what I am dealing
with. Like I said the A/C is very very cold now but for how long time
will tell.
I can take pictures and post here for your discussion.
Sam in Raleigh.
Sam - 01 Aug 2006 05:28 GMT
>>Well turns out the system was actually low on R-114. The reading on
>>the cheap gauge was not accurate because of an issue with the low side
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Apparently this is the receive/dryer and not the Evaporator. I had
>some conflicting information for parts identification.
According to the Ford Service Manual the part is a accumulator/drier
and sits next to the Evaporator at the firewall. This is the device
that has the defective needle valve which is the low side tap.
Ashton Crusher - 03 Aug 2006 07:06 GMT
>>>Well turns out the system was actually low on R-114. The reading on
>>>the cheap gauge was not accurate because of an issue with the low side
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>and sits next to the Evaporator at the firewall. This is the device
>that has the defective needle valve which is the low side tap.
If you are talking about the shrader valve that's in the low side
fitting you can't take it out without all the freon leaking out in the
process. There is supposed to be a cap that screws on over it. Inside
the cap there should be a rubber o-ring. I don't know if they are
supposed to be a perfect seal or not but you should be able to tighten
it good and tight. If the o-ring is hard you might want to stop by a
refrigeration supply house and get a new o-ring or a new cap and
o-ring.