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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Explorer / January 2007Clutch issue - 92
Hello All Just wondering if anyone has suggestions. My 92 XLT (85,000) exhibited a clutch pedal -to the-floor problem last night. The clutch reservoir took a little fluid, but was mostly full - so it doesn't seem like a leak somewhere, as often is indicated here and other boards in response to sinking clutch pedal problems. The Explorer was outside at my job, and it was VERY cold - maybe 19 degrees, The vehicle was parked with the nose slightly downward. I saw at least one post years back from someone here or elsewhere who had a similar condition in cold weather, but I didn't see any good answers. Some details: I started the truck, shifted normally into reverse and backed out of the spot. Then, when I pushed down the pedal, it was almost to the floor, and I couldn't get into gear. I allowed the vehicle to back down into another space. The pedal then was up about two thirds of the way. Then it came up all the way, and I drove home about 20 miles with no problems, shifting all the way. I tried it this morning (the vehicle was in a garage all night - about 50 degrees), and it worked fine. I down it back and forth numerous times without a problems or sponginess' in the pedal or anything. Again, I put about several tablespoons of brake fluid into the reservoir. I'm tempted just to drive it again and blame it on the frigid weather, but I don't want to get stuck somewhere.The frigid temperature may be just a coincidence or exacerbating a problem.. I DO have the shop manual and Haines book, if any of those will help me. Thanks for any ideas.  SignatureRegards, Anthony Giorgianni The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back to the newsgroup. > Hello All > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The clutch reservoir took a little fluid, but was mostly full - so it > doesn't seem like a leak somewhere You eliminated one of the two possible causes- an external leak. The remaining possibility is the master cylinder. That relies on seals. I would theorize that the seals are getting old and hard, and when cold are not a flexible and so don't seal as well, allowing the fluid to leak past and back into the reservoir. You might try bleeding the clutch just to replace the fluid. After all those years it gets some sludge in there, bleeding will flush it out some. If it happens again, try pumping the clutch a few times to see if the seals seat better. Or replace it with a rebuilt master cylinder and be done with it. -Paul >> Hello All >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >and be done with it. >-Paul It's also possible the leaking seals are in the slave cylinder. Getting to it is a major repair effort. Thanks for the replies. After looking at more past posts here and elsewhere, I'm concerned it may be one of the slave cylinders. I went under the truck today and saw no sign of any leaks anywhere. I pulled the rubber plug off the bottom of the transmission, and it all looked dry, the same with the little slot through which the flywheel is visible. The level in the master cylinder remains at the top. Drove around today, and everything worked properly. Not sure what to do. I would change the fluid, but I've seen some horror stories with people trying to bleed the system properly, and I don't have anyone to help. I'm thinking that if I just drive it, I'll get stuck - a real problem if it's on the parkway. And if I take it to a shop, they'll likely feel they have to fix something, even if it isn't broken. What a headache. SignatureRegards, Anthony Giorgianni The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back to the newsgroup. > > >> Hello All [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > It's also possible the leaking seals are in the slave cylinder. > Getting to it is a major repair effort. > Thanks for the replies. After looking at more past posts here and elsewhere, > I'm concerned it may be one of the slave cylinders. I went under the truck [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > on the parkway. And if I take it to a shop, they'll likely feel they have to > fix something, even if it isn't broken. What a headache. If it's not leaking, it's not the slave cylinder. When the slave cylinder leaks you lose fluid and the reservoir level will drop. If you don't see any fluid dripping from the clutch housing or the level in the reservoir dropping, you can rule that out. The master cylinder is different. When you have a leak past the seals the fluid leaks past the piston and back into the reservoir instead of actuating the clutch. So you don't lose fluid. Bleeding the clutch should be pretty much like bleeding brakes. If that's more than you want to take on, just have the master cylinder replaced. -Paul > It's also possible the leaking seals are in the slave cylinder. > Getting to it is a major repair effort. If the slave cylinder leaks it's external- fluid is lost, and the level in the reservoir would drop. He says that is not happening, so I think we can rule out a leaky slave cylinder. -Paul Thanks a lot Paul! The only thing I DID see was a little drip of black (smelled like burned rubber) between the tranny and engine. I usually have small drop there that normally looks like engine oil (My oil always is very clean since I change it so much). This seemed like some else, but just one thick drop. Again, only tiny bit - if any - loss in the master cylinder. I put a little in and it went right to the top, Had to siphon some off. But I really hope you are right because I don't want to become a, well, slave to my slave cylinder. :O) I did see one report of someone on explorerforums.com who apparently had a slave leak without seeing any big drop of fluid in the master cylinder. I don't see how that could be. But he took everything apart himself and said the cylinder was shredded or something (there's a rubber boot?) He's also the one who could not get the air out of the system. Wound up having to tear everything apart twice!!! 13 hours each time. I sure do wish they still made the Explorer with a manual. I'd just go out and get another one (or maybe that would be a mistake, given my problem) But my 92 still is like new but for that and my JBL subwoofer.otherwise Thanks again! >> It's also possible the leaking seals are in the slave cylinder. >> Getting to it is a major repair effort. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > we can rule out a leaky slave cylinder. > -Paul I am with you, Anthony. Manual transmission is now a "premium" item available of Cadillacs, Lincolns, and even Hummers...but not the Expolorer. Mine has been rock solid and a pleasure to drive for 225K miles and I guess I have to keep it since they only offer the manual version in Australia. BTW, I'd just go for the clutch and slave cylinder replacement. After doing mine at 160K, the trans was like new again and continues so. I never saw a leak in mine, either, but it was just not releasing well and was hard to get into gear. =Vic= Bear Gap, PA > Thanks a lot Paul! > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> we can rule out a leaky slave cylinder. >> -Paul > I am with you, Anthony. Manual transmission is now a "premium" item > available of Cadillacs, Lincolns, and even Hummers...but not the Expolorer. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > leak in mine, either, but it was just not releasing well and was hard to get > into gear. Replacing the clutch is very expensive due to the labor to get it apart and back together. I wouldn't replace the clutch unless it's slipping, chattering, or not releasing properly. If you DO need to replace it, or the transmission, by all means replace the whole works with high quality parts. -Paul Thanks everyone. Heard from the dealer this morning. Slow leak in the slave. Oh well. $1,100!! to replace cutch, throwout bearing and slave. I called some other shops. Price seems about right for NY-Connecticut region. One wanted $1,200! I've also asked them to look into changing the top rubber plugs. I gave them the part numbers from the old Singleton Explorer site. I wonder if the replacement plugs still are available. Thanks again. SignatureRegards, Anthony Giorgianni The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back to the newsgroup. Hello Everyone Thought I'd post a resolution and thank everyone for your great comments/insights. I did end up having the Ford dealer change the slave, which he said had a slow leak, causing the pedal to drop. He did the clutch package as well, of course. Seems like the technician did a really good job. I've been driving it for a couple of weeks now (Slight burning brake smell for the first two days, but it works and rides just like the original now). No problems. I inspected underneath, and I can't tell anything was done at all, except for a few new bolts on the exhaust system. I'm pretty impressed. A little over $1,200 with tax. The technician said he checked my tranny fluid (which I already had done) and test drove it. He remarked how unusual to find a 92 that still has gleaming brake lines :O). Said he'd try to buy it from me if it was an automatic. The only snag was those pesky rubber plugs in the tranny. The dealership agreed to replace them if I could find the metal replacements. I searched all over. Couldn't find the Dana #219-3052 anywhere. Finally found the Dorman #555-108, and had a friend drive me many miles to get them. Turned out they were the WRONG ones!!! Way too small. I don't know if those are ones for another location (there are plugs on the other side as well?) or if they changed the part number. (The part number was stamped into them, so I know it was right) Anyway, the technician said he pulled the old ones and that they were in good shape. He said he glued them back in (silicon sealant I think) and assured me there would be no problem with them. Afterwards, I was able to crawl under truck and reach up over the transmission and feel them. They really are in tight. Too bad I couldn't have them replaced while the tranny was out, but I'm not worried about them at all, and now realize I can check them easily. So thank you all again. A little over 85,000 on my 92. And I'm happily driving along. Regards, Anthony Giorgianni > Thanks everyone. Heard from the dealer this morning. Slow leak in the slave. > Oh well. $1,100!! to replace cutch, throwout bearing and slave. I called [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks again. |
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