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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Explorer / October 2007

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Easy Oil Changes- Fumoto Oil Valve

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Explorer1994 4.0L - 22 Sep 2007 23:44 GMT
1994 FExplorer, 4.0L, Edmonton, AB: IMO, this is the best oil drain
valve around. Living here in Edmonton, where winter temperatures
really take a beating on oil, I have to rely on either semi synthetic
or synthetic motor oil.
The prices at dealerships and Mr. Lubes/Lubex are far too high for
synthetic brands of motor oil.

Incidentally.   Although many debate which motor oil is the 'best', as
long as it meets API (http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/)
requirements, it's fine. It's upto you if you want to spend the extra
for Mobil 1, but even Walmart's own brand of synthetic motor oil works
just as well.

To my point, to save costs, Do It Yourself.
Ive found a product that works to cut down labour time and allows for
an easier overall experience.
For those who get their manhoods proven from maintaining their own
Explorers, rather than being gouged like an animal by the quasi-pros
at the dealerships/Mr.Lubes, here is the product that helps the
cuase.

http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/
Jim Warman - 23 Sep 2007 03:05 GMT
You are gonna be a lot of fun.... Part of the idea behind an "oil change" is
to get underneath the vehicle and spend some time inspecting things.... look
at the brakes so you can plan for a brake reline before that grinding sound
tells you your car is no longer safe to drive and will empty your wallet
when it wants instead of planning ("Boy, them pads is getting thin... I
better set some money aside...") and other similar instances... a lot of
them related to the SAFETY of the occupants.

Some shops oversell. I can't stop that. Consumers need to educate themselves
as to which shop is bad and which is good.... Hint.... good shops are
usually expensive since they know what they deliver for product...

Your car isn't a "car"... it is a machine and needs periodic inspections to
discover wear items... items that are experiencing premature wear... and
those items that have failed or are in the process of failing.... The Fumoto
valve encourages DIYers to neglect this sort of activity... This results in
higher repair costs in most instances....

I frequent this NG in an effort to assist DIYers.... but there is no
replacement for proper periodic inspection and maintenance... and GOSH,
don't it take some effort.... There are two choices.... Maintain the vehicle
properly  and suffer little in the way of inconvenience... or, if you
prefer, you can drive from breakdown to breakdown - being stranded as your
car sees fit....

FWIW, I live in Slave Lake... nearly three hours to your northwest. Current
vehicles include an 02 SuperCrew 4X4, 94 F150 4X4, 05 Mustang convertible
and my sons 97 Ranger 4X4... none of these get synthetic oil.... and I
certainly wouldn't put the added cost of synthetic oil into a 13 year old
car...  Past experiments show no "real world" benefits from the added
expense. The only benefit of synthetic lubricants (as long as we are talking
PAO base stocks) is thermal stability... If you want to talk "hydrocracked"
base stocks... dino oil is basically dino oil...

> 1994 FExplorer, 4.0L, Edmonton, AB: IMO, this is the best oil drain
> valve around. Living here in Edmonton, where winter temperatures
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/
Explorer1994 4.0L - 23 Sep 2007 05:34 GMT
> You are gonna be a lot of fun.... Part of the idea behind an "oil change" is
> to get underneath the vehicle and spend some time inspecting things.... look
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Mr. Warren, I am impressed by your list of material accomplishments
and ownership of multiple cars.

But please, do not assume nor preassume the discussion. Please
believe, that 'some' DIY'ers do not neglect their cars. The reason why
the Fumoto is even a consideration for most DIY'ers is because they do
not 'want' to neglect their machinery. Let's assume that for
discussion sake.

But also, let's understand that mechanics do not provide correct
service nor provide truthful, clear and concise language to their
clients.
Most oil changes are money losers for mechanics. Realistically, you
could change your oil every 10,000km and it'll still run great.
(http://www.trustmymechanic.com/change_oil.html). Oil changes are a
way to get the customer in, in order for the bait and switch to occur.
It allows them the opportunity for them to sell you other high profit
items and services (go to any Mr. Lube, and you'll know what I mean).

Some shops will even go so far to over price a major job (eg. engine
overhaul), since they make more money on the low maintenace items
(coolant changes, tranmission flushes, throttle body cleaning, air
filters, engine flushes, emission cleaning services, etc...). The time
it takes them to do an engine overhaul, they could have done 20 oil
changes, and made major bucks. You name it, they'll rip you off on
things that take less than 5 minutes to do, with a bit of research and
know-how.

Mr. Warren. Listen. Also, mechanics don't do the full meal deal, like
they are say they do. The 21 point inspections are a sham and a
shame.
Battery check, checked off. Yet, the battery cover was never taken
off, I ask. I get anger and spite. Instead they check a few things,
wait for a few minutes to pass, turn to my air filter, and instruct me
that I need an new air filter, and forget about the rest of the 21
points. They don't check my chasis, they don't do the full 21.

Next, mechanics have forgotten to change the oil filter (whether they
forget, or simply don't) duirng routine oil AND filter changes. In
addition,  mistreading of the oil pan is an issue. There have been
many a mechanic that has ruined an oil pan because he simply doesn't
care. So please don't jam on DIY'ers, who have ruined their cars.
There are just as much self professed, and self regulated,
professional mechanic, who has runied just as many cars.

This leads me to the point. The Fumoto Oil Drain Valve eliminates the
animal (professional mechanic) from having to even do another step in
the mechanical process. A simple thing as misthreading a plug, can
lead to a few $100 down the drain. Does the mechanic care? No. The
more steps for a mechanic in the process, the worse off your car is.
The less steps, the better. The faster you get out of the shop, the
better and the cheaper it will be. That leads me to the FUMOTO.

Mr. Warren. Fumoto Oil Drain valve is proven. It is an 'evolution'
beyond the simple plug. Im surprised car manufacturers haven't
provided these on most cars.

Last point. NASA and the military rely on synthetic base oils for
their machinery. NASA for sub-zero space, and the military for
instances like circum polar expeditions (like the present one Harper
is thinking of, after the Russians planted their flags underwater,
near the North Pole).

Evolution, Mr. Warren. I don't know what era or age you were born in,
but synthetic oils are here, they exist as material facts.
They work, especially in low temperatures. Please don't dispute the
evidence.

Let me analogize here. You must know 8-tracks. Well, CD's now exist.
You know, VHS, and BETA, well... Blue-Ray DVDs actually exist for the
consumer to use. Yes, all mediums provide us with simply sound and
video, but each with different qualities. We are in an era of CDs and
DVDs.

Synthetic oils and fossil based oils do the same job, they lubricate.
But they have differing qualites.

Starting up your engine kills its, especially in cold weather
environments. (eg. Edmonton can get down to -45 celcius).
Don't trying to provide you with technical mechanic babble, here.
Synthetic grades do not 'muck' up at cold temperatures, whereas fossil-
based oils do.
One against the other, there isn't much advantage. Yet, in cold
weather starts there is.
That is one area (there are other areas), for sure, synthetic oils out
perform fossil based oils.

Mr. Warren. Evolution. Not assumption.
Explorer1994 4.0L - 23 Sep 2007 06:04 GMT
> > You are gonna be a lot of fun.... Part of the idea behind an "oil change" is
> > to get underneath the vehicle and spend some time inspecting things.... look
[quoted text clipped - 149 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Mr.Warren:

Dr. Bob is reputable and knowledgeable when it comes to maintaining
the Ford Explorer (especially, the 1990s). Synthetic base oils are
used by Ford Explorer owners.
http://www.explorerforum.com/Singleton/web/pages/service.html

Understanding what hydrocracked would mean. Im here to state terms in
simple and concise (non-mechanic talk) language. A language not filled
with jargon that is meant to throw the average car owner off.

You stated it, in the above email. "THERMAL STABILITY"
Mr. Warren. that means, not only to assume that the jargon term,
'thermal stability' only occurs at high temperatures, but also at
temperatures where your nuts freeze off (plain langauge).

Im surprised that the term thermal stability (and hydro cracked is
also a great one, Ill use that one on my wife), can't apply in low
temperatures?

Mr. Warren. Synthetics have thermal stability across the celcius
spectrum, that is, in plain terms- when it's hot and cold, it works
better than fossil based oils.

I thought science had proven this, I thought years ago? Mind you, it
was funded mainly by the oil industry who produce the synthetics.
Jim Warman - 11 Oct 2007 10:32 GMT
Wow... you made this tough... but I'll try....

Let's start with some basic abilities.... you can't spell my name right.
Reading is an important skill.... very important.

I love the way you say "mechanics" are untruthful ( "I" am a mechanic... are
you making a statement?) .... Like any other business, this trade has it's
charlatans, hustlers and thieves. A smart consumer will learn where to go
and where not to go.... In the grand scheme of things, you and many others,
have decided that "cheap" is "good".... no matter how many times we have to
repeat "cheap"....

Then, we equate the kids at Mr Lube with trained techs.... that's like
equating some that's good with addition to a chartered accountant....
Sheesh - you apper ill prepared for life....

"trustmymechanic.com" has SPONSORS... I don't.... "trustmy mechanic.com" has
a very real need to say *some* things in order to keep their sponsors... I
don't. FWIW... I have never been to this site - nor do I plan to visit in
the near future. Fuckl "I saw it on on the internet.... it MUST be true!!!".

OK... it's late and I want to get to bed... you ramble too much for my
poorly educated tastes or abilities....

I saw a reference to Dr Bob... Who the f.ck is dr Bob? This is some guy that
gets paid to say the things he says.... I don't... My next paycheque doesn't
hinge on anything I say here or anywhere else other than in "my" shop....
And I've seen my fair share of some dr Bobs.... some of these guys couldn't
fix a sandwich. These guys prey on people like you..... they offer
simplistic, no-brain advice and, if that don't work, they can fall back on
"further testing required".

Bottom line... you guys can do what you want.... dr boob ain't here....
there's no money changing hands.... nobody "needs" to say anything to make a
sponsor look good.... It's your car - do what you f.cking want..... it's
your wallet.... do what you f.cking want..... but don't pretend to wade in
here and tell people that snake oil, stop gap measures are the real cure to
their problems. Stop leak can "postpone" a coolant leak repair.... it will
never cure it.

A fancy pantsed oil pan drain valve will save you about 10 seconds out of
your busy oil change... add it up - for most people that will be about 20 or
30 seconds a year.... What will I do wth all of this spare time?

I didn't realize that gullible was a religion.....

NASA? underwater flags? VHS? Beta? WTF? I want some of what your're
smoking.....
Beryl - 11 Oct 2007 21:42 GMT
> A fancy pantsed oil pan drain valve will save you about 10 seconds out of

It'll do better than that. These Explorers we got, '97 and '98, have oil
pans cleverly designed to aim the oil sideways, rather than down. Duh!
The satisfaction of having hot dirty oil running down my arm as I lie on
my back holding a hot drain bolt halfway over the hole to divert the
stream is immeasurable.
Ashton Crusher - 14 Oct 2007 12:03 GMT
>Wow... you made this tough... but I'll try....
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>NASA? underwater flags? VHS? Beta? WTF? I want some of what your're
>smoking.....

You could learn quite a bit from Dr. Bob.  Not necessarily mechanic
stuff, although you might, but more importantly how to act like a
civilized and thoughtful person instead of a vitriolic misanthrope.
Ulysses - 24 Sep 2007 00:20 GMT
> > You are gonna be a lot of fun.... Part of the idea behind an "oil change" is
> > to get underneath the vehicle and spend some time inspecting things.... look
[quoted text clipped - 99 lines]
> There are just as much self professed, and self regulated,
> professional mechanic, who has runied just as many cars.

My wife took her Nissan Frontier to Jippy Lube.  They said it needed a new
air filter.  She said OK.  They replaced it.  She got about 1 block and
turned around.  They somehow managed to damage the MAF sensor.  They paid
for the repair.  It cost about $420 for the parts.  They also replaced the
throttle body.  It was not one piece.  They could have just replaced the
sensor.  For that matter they probably could have blown off whatever debris
was on it and it might have worked fine.  They also lost one of the
clip-down brackets for the cover and one of the wing nuts.

> This leads me to the point. The Fumoto Oil Drain Valve eliminates the
> animal (professional mechanic) from having to even do another step in
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> is thinking of, after the Russians planted their flags underwater,
> near the North Pole).

NASA is not a good example--their stuff has a tendency to blow up.

> Evolution, Mr. Warren. I don't know what era or age you were born in,
> but synthetic oils are here, they exist as material facts.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Mr. Warren. Evolution. Not assumption.
Ashton Crusher - 23 Sep 2007 23:30 GMT
>You are gonna be a lot of fun.... Part of the idea behind an "oil change" is
>to get underneath the vehicle and spend some time inspecting things...

Do you even know what the Fumoto Valve is?  You rant about it as if it
eliminates the need for the owner to get under the vehicle yet it's
merely an easier way to drain the oil - instead of unscrewing the oil
drain plug WHILE UNDER THE VEHICLE you open the Fumoto WHILE UNDER THE
VEHICLE.

. look
>at the brakes so you can plan for a brake reline before that grinding sound
>tells you your car is no longer safe to drive and will empty your wallet
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>those items that have failed or are in the process of failing.... The Fumoto
>valve encourages DIYers to neglect this sort of activity.

How, pray tell, does the Fumoto do that???

>.. This results in
>higher repair costs in most instances....
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>PAO base stocks) is thermal stability... If you want to talk "hydrocracked"
>base stocks... dino oil is basically dino oil...

It's certainly true that if you maintain the same "too soon" oil
change interval used in the Americas there is little benefit to using
synthetics.  If you use them as intended it's a different story.

>> 1994 FExplorer, 4.0L, Edmonton, AB: IMO, this is the best oil drain
>> valve around. Living here in Edmonton, where winter temperatures
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>>
>> http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/
Jim Warman - 24 Sep 2007 08:07 GMT
I do know what the Fumoto valve is... that's the little valve that keeps
diesel owners from finding the piston cooling jet laying in the pan of their
7.3....

Rant? Hardly.... opinions... definitely....

Two reasons for DIYing... the gratification from completing the task at
hand....  and saving dollars...

My limited experience with this valve has shown that the owner of a vehicle
fitted with one of these is more likely to overlook or avoid the
"comprehensive inspection" that should be part of every scheduled
maintenance, thinking to himself that he will check it all "next time"....
Better yet... get the Fumoto with the provision for attaching a hose....
then we can really save a bunch of time (what..... must take nearly 20
seconds to unscrew that pesky plug).... all the while avoiding that gut
sinking feeling we get if we find debris clinging to a magnetic drain plug
or peeking out of the hole...

Additionally, I feel the valve is, in many applications, placing itself in
harms way and could be easily damaged or broken off....

Just because my point of view differs from yours, does not constitute a
rant.... After nearly 40 years in this business, I'm smart enough to realize
that I'm a long way from having seen everything that can go wrong with one
of these machines we call cars... Too often, we find a new, unique way that
someone has managed make it possible to alter their budget.... And at the
price of new parts these days.....
Ulysses - 25 Sep 2007 19:29 GMT
> I do know what the Fumoto valve is... that's the little valve that keeps
> diesel owners from finding the piston cooling jet laying in the pan of their
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Two reasons for DIYing... the gratification from completing the task at
> hand....  and saving dollars...

One of my main reasons for doing it myself to is make sure it's done
correctly.  I'm no master mechanic but just about every time I've had
someone else work on my cars *something* was either overlooked or done
incorrectly.  There must be some good mechanics out there but they are not
very easy to find.  If you take your car to the dealer you have no idea who
will be working on it.

The most gratifiying part for me is to do the job for $100 instead of paying
someone else $600 or more.

> My limited experience with this valve has shown that the owner of a vehicle
> fitted with one of these is more likely to overlook or avoid the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> sinking feeling we get if we find debris clinging to a magnetic drain plug
> or peeking out of the hole...

I've not seen one of these gadgets but if it sticks out then I don't think
I'd want it on an Explorer.  And yes, it is disturbing to see little pieces
of metal on drain plugs and denial will probably only get you stuck on the
road somewhere.
Bill Jeffrey - 29 Sep 2007 19:58 GMT
> Do you even know what the Fumoto Valve is?  You rant about it as if it
> eliminates the need for the owner to get under the vehicle yet it's
> merely an easier way to drain the oil - instead of unscrewing the oil
> drain plug WHILE UNDER THE VEHICLE you open the Fumoto WHILE UNDER THE
> VEHICLE.

Go easy here, Ashton. For years I had my oil changed at Quickee places.
No problems to my knowledge. Then I developed a rapport with a reliable
mechanic, and began taking my '02 Explorer V-8 to him for oil changes,
among other things. When I picked up my vehicle after the first oil
change, he told me "You've been taking it to Quickee places, haven't
you? I could tell because there is almost no thread left on the drain
plug. They over-tighten them something fierce, and often strip the
threads." I asked what they tell the owner when they strip out a drain
plug, and he showed me a whole bucket full of quick fixes, inserts, new
threads, oversize plugs, and so forth.

I don't have a Fumoto valve, but I've thought about it. I would much
rather spend $20 for that, than have a stripped-out drain plug and a
cobbled-up fix.

I agree that getting under the vehicle and taking a look around is a
great thing to do. And I did it for years. But as I have gotten older
and stiffer, I have decided to take it to a guy I trust, and ask him to
look around. After all, he can put it on a lift - something I can't do.

Bill
Ulysses - 24 Sep 2007 00:06 GMT
> You are gonna be a lot of fun.... Part of the idea behind an "oil change" is
> to get underneath the vehicle and spend some time inspecting things.... look
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> PAO base stocks) is thermal stability... If you want to talk "hydrocracked"
> base stocks... dino oil is basically dino oil...

If I understand you correctly you are saying that all (non-synthetic) motor
oil is pretty much the same?  The reason I ask is because last December Pep
Boys was practically giving away Pennzoil.  I had three Honda generator
engines fail while the Pennzoil was in them.  This scared me right back to
Valvoline (now about $35/case!).  So, is it safe to use Pennzoil and I just
had a lot of bad luck?

> > 1994 FExplorer, 4.0L, Edmonton, AB: IMO, this is the best oil drain
> > valve around. Living here in Edmonton, where winter temperatures
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> >
> > http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/
Beryl - 24 Sep 2007 08:41 GMT
> If I understand you correctly you are saying that all (non-synthetic) motor
> oil is pretty much the same?  The reason I ask is because last December Pep
> Boys was practically giving away Pennzoil.  I had three Honda generator
> engines fail while the Pennzoil was in them.  This scared me right back to
> Valvoline (now about $35/case!).  So, is it safe to use Pennzoil and I just
> had a lot of bad luck?

"The Drake well in Titusville, PA was the birthplace of the oil
industry. The crude oil that flowed was high in wax content, which is
typical of Pennsylvania crude."
http://www.hpwax.com/industry.htm

I look for Valvoline or Castrol. Pep Boys sometimes has those for less
than $1 per quart (with coupon & after rebate).
Big Shoe - 24 Sep 2007 13:46 GMT
It's better to use synthetic in air-cooled engines because they run
hot and synthetic can stand higher temperatures.

>> You are gonna be a lot of fun.... Part of the idea behind an "oil change"
>is
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
>> >
>> > http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/
Bob - 24 Sep 2007 22:48 GMT
> 1994 FExplorer, 4.0L, Edmonton, AB: IMO, this is the best oil drain
> valve around. Living here in Edmonton, where winter temperatures
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/

 Mr. Kimchee. The problem I have with this valve is there is no magnet
like there is on a drain plug to capture stray metal particles or small
parts that may be circulating around in your crankcase.
 
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