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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Explorer / October 2007replacing the transfer case chain?
Anyone with experience replacing a borg warner transfer case chain? Mine is a borg Warner 4404 for AWD EB 5.0 '96 Explorer. Any help appreciated First - a word of caution... Some electrical concerns with the control-trac system can be mistaken as a "loose chain" concern. The drive chain can be checked for "slop" without removing or disassembling the transfer case.... Place the system in 4LOW to lock the transfer case.... With the car in park, raise the front wheels clear of the ground (use jack stands, of course) and rotate the driveshaft to the front diff back and forth.... This is a bit of an "acquired taste" and there is no real spec other than sound judgement - Usually (memory thing here) I see anywhere up to almost 1/8th turn of the shaft in a good T-case.... I believe that you will see well over 1/4 turn before things are loose enough for the chain to skip over the sprockets under heavy torque.... Having said that, once you get the T-case on the bench, you will need a 30mm socket and a pair of lock ring pliers ( similar to these http://www.stridetool.com/tools/retaining_pliers/tippliers_06.html ) at the very least. This will be about a 7 on a scale of one to ten...... Remove the front output flange nut first before splitting the case.... Also, to remove the shift motor, the electrical connector will need to be partially disassembled - this is not a difficult step but it is too easy to break plastic parts.... There is a plastic retainer clip inside the connector that is removed with needlenose pliers.... look closely inside the connector and you will see a little plastic tang holding the wire connection in place... using a seal pick or straightened out paper clip, gently pry that tang away from the wire and pull the wire fom the connector. I think you will be removing more that one wire so be sure to note the colour/location of each wire. Once you separate the case halves, the rest should be fairly apparent. Work with purpose - taking digital photos as you progress can help. There are three balls on a cam ring located between the clutch housing (the one the electric clutch coil reacts with) and the clutch pack - do not let these balls "escape". Once you get the clutch pack out, the drive sprocket, chain and front output shaft lift out as a group. Now is a good time to inspect the clutch pack friction members.... and replace is necessary - look for any discolouration that might indicate overheat and look for abnormal wear patterns. Carefully inspect the drive and driven sprockets for wear.... The teeth on the sprockets should be smooth. If these show distinct wear patterns, the transfer case may be noisy or this wear may affect the service life of the new chain.... Now you are this far into it, this would be the ideal time to clean or replace the oil pump pick up screen, inspect and clean the magnet and inspect (or, if a hi-miler, even consider replacing) the oil pump..... There is a locating or "anti spin" lug on the oil pump that engages a boss on the inside of the front case half.... I don't recall seeing concerns with the 4404/4405 cases but I have seen the lug on the oil pump wear right through the boss inside the case on some transfer cases (usually F150, IIRC). Considering the scope of the project and the chances for things to go not quite as smoothly as planned, this may be an good opportunity to try a one use subscription at http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/retail/default.asp?pageid=pubs&gutsid=pub s&menuIndex1=41 or similar. Of course, you must remember that I'm both a dealer tech and I've been doing this for many years. People only ever pay me to disassemble things once.... (and here comes the sarcastic dig) - however, there are those here that feel doing something right and doing it only once are something to be avoided if we can save a nickel and enjoy the project many times over. Perhaps one of these kind folks could step up to the plate and let us both know the ideal spot on your T-case and we can let everyone have a crack at wailing on it with a hammer.... > First - a word of caution... Some electrical concerns with the control-trac > system can be mistaken as a "loose chain" concern. The drive chain can be [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > spot on your T-case and we can let everyone have a crack at wailing on it > with a hammer.... Or we might pretend that thought and ingenuity are the same as running over something. Jim, thanks for the reply. My case is an AWD case, no 4 low or engage motor involved. I think the repair would be similar, and if I do it I will get the manual. I'm not sure its the chain I hear now though as I have posted in a few other forums and gotten different theories. I'd be interested to hear your diagnosis of this noise. It's a clicking noise when I go straight slowly, and more like a grinding or growling noise as I turn a tight radius slowly, and has gotten worse of the years. At highway speeds I don't hear anything. I replaced the CV joints / axles, because some people were "sure" that was the problem but the noise persists. Now, I had someone suggest I remove the drive shaft, which I did, and the noise goes away. With the drive shaft on the bench, all the universals "seem" to be free and smooth. If one was binding, I would think I found the problem. A rebuilt drive shaft is about $200. I already replaced the front axles, seemingly for nothing. I don't mind making either repair, the T-case ot the drive shaft. I just want to make the right repair this time. Any thoughts on this are appreciated. Bill > First - a word of caution... Some electrical concerns with the > control-trac system can be mistaken as a "loose chain" concern. The drive [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > us both know the ideal spot on your T-case and we can let everyone have a > crack at wailing on it with a hammer.... OK... for some reason I had A4WD stuck in my head..... and, for some reason, I had to go to the 97 WSM (workshop manual) to find your transfer case... This is good only in the sense that there doesn't appear to be a front output flange nut.... (You can tell we don't see this system in our area). Removing the front driveshaft isn't going to reveal much.... with this shaft out of the picture, a lot of components are no longer transmitting torque and this "relaxing" effect will likely keep the faulty component(s) from complaining loudly enough to be heard.... With the parts you have already replaced and the thought that you are considering a driveshaft, I'm left to wonder if the noise is, indeed, from the transfer case or from another source.... operating the vehicle on a hoist *may* reveal the source but it is more likely that you may be left to find a shop that has a set of "chassis ears".... This is a group of microphones that are clamped to suspect components or areas - the operator can toggle between the microphones to localize sounds. In this way, it should be possibly too positively identify the transfer case as the culprit or not.... I realize that this isn't much help but this transfer case is quite a departure from any others that I normally see (including a planetary gearset even though it isn't used for the usual HI/LO range shift - yes, it does have a chain). I did briefly scan through TSBs without noticing anything.... If you'd care to PM me your VIN, I can run OASIS on this concern for you.... Jim. Thanks again for the reply. With some further research I have discovered that my drive shaft is one of the early double cardon type, with u-joints rather than a CV joint, meaning it is realtivly cheap and easy to eliminate as the source of the noise. I understand that with the shaft out of the picture other components will act differently. Knowing that the U-jionts seem smooth and unbound with the shaft out of the car, do you think that THEY would act that much differntly with torqe applied? I am going to try the U-joints. Just wanted your opinion. Thanks > OK... for some reason I had A4WD stuck in my head..... and, for some > reason, I had to go to the 97 WSM (workshop manual) to find your transfer [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > I did briefly scan through TSBs without noticing anything.... If you'd > care to PM me your VIN, I can run OASIS on this concern for you.... Might be getting somewhere.... the double cardan type U-joints use a centering ball between the two cross and cap joints... these can develop wear that can make all manner of noise with no real obvious vibration. With the shaft off the car, move the joint through it's full range of motion.... there should be a slight resistance build as the joint approaches the straight position and the joint should have smooth action. With the shaft installed in the vehicle, grasp the shaft next to the U-joint ass'y and move it up and down (can take quite a bit of force) - there should be no play at all. If this joint has play, you will probably need to look to the aftermarket suppliers for parts since Ford doesn't appear to stock or supply any centering ball kits. Plan on replacing the associated U-joints at the same time. When reassembling the joint, be very careful not to "cross up" a bearing cap needle - I've repaired manyu of these style joints over the years and there is still the odd one that tries to be as frustrating as it possibly can. If your local auto parts store has a C clamp type ball joint press for loan or rent, the C clamp can be used alone to aid in removing/installing the U-joints. HTH Jim, I hope you're still following this thread. I took some of your earlier advice and put the car on a lift with the car in gear. I had someone in the car apply the brakes slightly to cause some drag on everything that's spinning, and now that I'm under there and close to the source, I can tell the sound is most defininatly coming from the transfer case. So now I'm back to my original belief that the transfer case chain is stretched, or something else is bad in the case. I have someone who can replace the chain or rebuild the whole case. The rebuild kits I see online are the chain (cheap), Vicious Clutch set (expensive), and a bearing and seal kit (I would buy anyway). The car has 162,000 miles and otherwise runs great. I'm not trying to keep it forever. I just want to get a few more 10,000s of miles out of it. Since I put very few miles on it per year and have always garaged the car, this could be years of service for me. Have you any experience with what wears in these cases? I have one person telling me it's the chain and only the chain. I have a dealer telling me it's the VC set. I know logic would suggest to replace everything as long as the case is open, but the one guy swears the chain is the only thing worn. So you don't have to go back and re-read the thread, it's a BW 4404 full time AWD. No hi/lo or engage device. It really a pretty simple t-case. I was surprised when I came back to this thread that someone replied about you being disrespected on this message board. I went back and read our dialouge, and can think of no reason for that to have been replied to this thread. I want to be on record that I respect your advice, and appreciate that you give it. Autos are not my area of expertise, but I do contribute to online forums about Home Automation. Also, whenever I use a forum for advice, I come back and post the final resolution for the benefit of anyone reading this thread in the future. Thanks again > Might be getting somewhere.... the double cardan type U-joints use a > centering ball between the two cross and cap joints... these can develop [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > HTH > Jim, I hope you're still following this thread. I took some of your earlier > advice and put the car on a lift with the car in gear. I had someone in the [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > > > HTH In this NG you have mainly folks who have repaired their Explorers with success and share that information. Some of us are expert mechanics (not me), and some are shadetree mechanics. Then you have someone like Warman who seems to find it amusing to call people stupid and goofy and such and the only crime I can see that they commited was to ask how to fix their car. I agree that Warman's post on the transfer case was a great post and a real contribution to usenet. Meanwhile, I have managed to gather enough information from this and other sources to keep my 'ol '91 running great. Being the "shadetree" kind of mechanic I would tend to go for just replacing the chain and seals if the clutch is really expensive and you have a reliable source telling you it's just the chain. The transfer case is not exactly easy to remove but not extremely difficult either. Since there have been very few reports of transfer case problems (that I've read anyway) I would tend to do the minimum required. If it doesn't work then you at least have a real good idea what the problem might be. Old posts have a tendancy to go unnoticed around here so you may want to start a new one with your new question. It would also be great if more people posted the results of their projects so future googlers could find the solutions to their problems. Ummm, I recall that the progenitor of all of this was posts suggesting that stop gap "fixes" were "good" fixes and that I take a very dim view of the Fumoto valve (which "some" think is the cats meow....). Someone was quite surprised that I knew what the Fumoto was.... Mayhaps my bedside manner isn't to your liking.... TOO f.cking BAD... Mayhaps my free advice costs too much... talk to the usenet boss and see if he can cut my wages.... FWIW, I'm not here to impress anyone... least of all Ulysses. You want me to lead people around by the nose.... solve all their problems for them and just, in general, be a congenial old coot.... What folks need is to start thinking on their own... I can help in things mechanical, But the crux of the matter will be "think on their own".... The old "give a man a fish or teach a man to fish" th >> Jim, I hope you're still following this thread. I took some of your > earlier [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > It would also be great if more people posted the results of their projects > so future googlers could find the solutions to their problems. John Smith didn't come in here with a chip on his shoulder.... You have the option of ignoring me.... I suggest you exercise it... FWIW, my goal in life has nothing to do with your expectations... this is usenet - if your skin is thin, I suggest a different venue... I am not politically correct, I don't pretend to be politically correct and I never expect to be politically correct..... > > Jim, I hope you're still following this thread. I took some of your > earlier [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > would tend to do the minimum required. If it doesn't work then you at least > have a real good idea what the problem might be. I just looked up a transfer case (probably not the same as yours because it's for a '92 with 4.0L) in my Ford Service Manual CD. The instructions are very clear and nicely illustrated on exactly how to disassemble the transfer case but I could find no information on troubleshooting the TC. I could also find no specs on allowable play on the chain or wear on parts etc. Torque settings I *could* find. This looks like one of those times when you need a professional mechanic like Warman to tell you what's what. BTW I got my Ford Manual CD on eBay a while back for not very much $$$ ($10 or $12 or so). I think it's worth getting. I also have an old laptop I got on eBay for $5 that I can use it in in the garage (or even under the car). The CD I got runs on Win 95 or higher and a 486 CPU. It may even run on 3.1. I've heard some of the CDs require a Pentium and Win XP. > Old posts have a tendancy to go unnoticed around here so you may want to > start a new one with your new question. > > It would also be great if more people posted the results of their projects > so future googlers could find the solutions to their problems. John... in nearly 40 years of doing this, I've only replaced about 4 transfer case chains... all of these were on units that saw a LOT of 4WD heavy slogging.... Most concerns involve shift forks and/or mode synchros.... I'm probably the original "doubting Thomas"... I like to have a very good reason for anything that I do to an automobile... Looking back through posts on this NG and other venues, I see a few references to debris on the transfer case speed sensors.... I recall some reports (and, IIRC a TSB) about transfer case fluid contamination. Neither of these really seem to fit your circumstance though they are worth exploring - as in cheap to do. Unfortunately, I'm not close enough to the concern to be of much more help at this time... you sound to have a lot of money invested in this concern with no resolution and I am loathe to recommend a course of action that I wouldn't normally take on a customers car.... > First - a word of caution... Some electrical concerns with the control-trac > system can be mistaken as a "loose chain" concern. The drive chain can be [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > spot on your T-case and we can let everyone have a crack at wailing on it > with a hammer.... Jim - You've been taking some crap here recently, and I don't understood why. Disagreement is one thing - unwarranted crap is another. Your post here is a great example of how you support the Explorer owners, and I for one am very grateful for your presence and advice. As near as I can tell, there is no other EXPERT Explorer service person on this group. Bill Bill, I thank you and jrchilds (and anyone else, for that matter) for the words of encouragement.... Truth of the matter is that I am a crusty old curmudgeon.... I work in a dealership with a door rate in excess of $100/hour... For that kind of faloose, customers don't expect back yard repairs - nor will they condone them.... Hence the schism between "done right" and "done cheap". If I tell a customer "but I might be able to save you some money if....", they look at me like a grew a third eye. Mainstream customers (and wise DIYers) would rather address a concern once... get it over and done with, so to speak, without leaving themselves open to repeat concerns or even inconvenience from having a cavalier repair leave them stranded. If I don't fix it right this week, there's a good chance I'll fix it for free next week.... For the DIYer, the feeling may vary..... up until some poor slob is outside, in the rain, at 0dark thirty, wondering if he will have to take the bus to work in the morning (from experience, this new breed of cat figures that strolling in to work at 8:15 is "on time"). There's a lot of things we can do to postpone the inevitable, but at some point in time, we will bite the bullet and do what is necessary.,... Something I often explain to people.... "It is the car deciding how much the repair will cost..... I am only the messenger...". Thanks again..... but, I do like to make "sport" of some nay-sayers....
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