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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Explorer / March 2008Service memos
My dealership is claiming that there is a brand new memo that came out stating that remote starters kill the battery for in 2006-2007 Explorers. Is there anywhere I can find this information on Ford's website? Is there a national service hotline? The vehicle ('07 Eddie Bauer) was in two weeks ago for a new battery and at that point they said it had nothing to do with the remote start, now the battery is dead again and they are stating there is a new memo. Thanks. > My dealership is claiming that there is a brand new memo that came > out stating that remote starters kill the battery for in 2006-2007 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > battery is dead again and they are stating there is a new memo. > Thanks. Is it an aftermarket remote starter or a Ford installed remote starter? The remote starter definitely pulls some power all the time, but I can't imagine it is enough to kill the battery unless there is some sort of problem where it repeatedly tries to start the vehicle and can't. I don't see a Technical Service Bulletin that address remote starters directly, but there could be an Oasis message on the subject. I can't see those. Ed >> My dealership is claiming that there is a brand new memo that came out >> stating that remote starters kill the battery for in 2006-2007 Explorers. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Ed Thanks Ed, it is after-market. The dealer told me I couldn't get an OEM starter for pre-2008 Explorers. The thing is that it isn't drawing on the battery, if that was the case I'd just jump it, they are saying it is causing an internal failure in one of the cells. >>> My dealership is claiming that there is a brand new memo that came >>> out stating that remote starters kill the battery for in 2006-2007 [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > drawing on the battery, if that was the case I'd just jump it, they > are saying it is causing an internal failure in one of the cells. You should ask them to let you see the memo. What is the proposed course of action? Remove the remote starter? Ford definitely sells an accessory remote starter for pre-2008 Explorers (Ford P/N 2W7Z-19G364-BA). They recommend dealer installation. What brand of remote starter do you have? The only thing I have seen that might be related to your problem is about the remote starter keeping the GEM alive, and this kills the battery. Does your remote starter include a remote entry function (lock/unlock the doors). It seems that some remote starters that tie into the factory door lock wiring need to be isolated from the factory wiring with diodes, otherwise they will draw enough current from the system to keep the GEM alive, resulting in an increased power draw, which kills the battery faster. Repeatedly drawing the battery down to a low level can damage the battery, leading to a total failure. Modern starters will turn over at relatively low voltage, resulting in a much higher current draw, which can damage the battery. You should measure the current draw with everything supposedly "off." You should also check the battery after the vehicle has been "off" for an extended period. I'll be the voltage will be low (less than 12V). The smartest "Ford" guy on Usenet is probably Jim Warman. If anyone likely to see this post know about a "memo" it will probably be Jim. You might also consider asking your question at www.flatratetech.com. You'll have to join (no cost), but they may be able to help you. Ed The only Service Bulletin that would seem to apply is TSB 07-5-13: FORD:2005-2008 Mustang 2005 Explorer Sport Trac 2005-2008 Expedition, Explorer 2007-2008 Explorer Sport Trac LINCOLN:2005-2008 Navigator MERCURY:2005-2008 Mountaineer ISSUE: Some 2005-2008 Mustang , Explorer 4dr, Mountaineer, Expedition, Navigator, 2005 Explorer Sport Trac and 2007-2008 Explorer Sport Trac vehicles may experience a no start and have a discharged battery. They are usually stored for prolonged periods of time or are driven infrequently for short distances. Batteries will discharge while the vehicle is in storage due to normal current draw loads. Over a period of time, 30 days or more, vehicles in storage will have shallow to deeply discharged batteries as a result of lack of use or normal current draw. ACTION: Follow the Service Tips steps to correct the condition. SERVICE TIPS Charging system diagnostics and battery draw test are located in Workshop Manual, Section 414-00. Discharged batteries need to be properly recharged following the procedures in TSB 07-5-8. All modern automobiles have several micro processors in their electrical system that will draw small amounts of electrical current when the vehicle key is off. Normal current draw is between 20-30 milliamps (workshop manual specification is up to 50 milliamps 0.050 amps). The more discharged a battery becomes, the more susceptible it is to permanent damage. This is more likely in low temperatures (below 32 °F (0 °C). Batteries will discharge while the vehicle is in storage due to normal current draw loads. Over a period of time (30 days or more), vehicles in storage will have shallow to deeply discharged batteries as a result of lack of use or normal current draw. NOTE:ELECTRICAL OR ELECTRONIC ACCESSORIES OR COMPONENTS ADDED TO THE VEHICLE BY THE DEALER OR BY THE OWNER WILL INCREASE THE CURRENT DRAW LOADS AND ADVERSELY AFFECT BATTERY PERFORMANCE AND DURABILITY. The vehicle's charging system is designed to supply the vehicle's electrical power needs and maintain the battery to near full charge during normal vehicle use. The charging system is not capable of bringing a deeply discharged battery back to near full charge in a short amount of time such as allowing the vehicle to idle for 15 minutes to "recharge the battery" or from short drive cycles. Short drive cycles will only provide a small surface charge to the battery. To fully recharge a battery that is fully discharged requires operating the vehicle for approximately two (2) hours with engine speed above 1500 RPM. Vehicles that are stored for extended periods or are driven infrequently for short distances may need to use an auxiliary battery maintainer/charger that is expressly designed to maintain the battery state of charge during storage. These maintainers/chargers are available in the automotive aftermarket and should be used according to their manufacturer's direction. > The only Service Bulletin that would seem to apply is TSB 07-5-13: <snip> The dealer printed something off that looked similar to that but different enough that I'll try to post it tomorrow. Also, this vehicle was never parked longer than 10-12 hours. I have seen no TSBs, SSMs nor broadcast messages relating directly to remote starts (and I have to say that, in our area, it is odd to see any vehicle without a remote start). If your dealer has replaced the battery and this hasn't fixed the concern, my best guess is that they haven't diagnosed the concern correctly. Althought the parasitic draw test is quite simple to perform (and is outlined in both web based training material as well as the workshop manual), it still seems to confuse many techs. The vehicle must be prepared for the test before hand and sufficient time allowed for all the modules to "go to sleep". Ford spec for allowable parasitic draw is 50 mA (milliamps) but the typical reading is 20 mA. While it is possible for the remote start to be the cause of excessive parasitic draw, there might also be some "Ford" concern that could be the cause. If the battery tests "good" and the charging system tests "good"... a parasitic draw test might be required.... Words of caution.... Somewhere around 06~07, the charging system was changed over to computer control (the PCM controls virtually all charging system functions). It becomes imperative that the technician refer to the workshop manual in order to perform correct charging system diagnosis... > My dealership is claiming that there is a brand new memo that came out > stating that remote starters kill the battery for in 2006-2007 Explorers. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > do with the remote start, now the battery is dead again and they are > stating there is a new memo. Thanks. >I have seen no TSBs, SSMs nor broadcast messages relating directly to >remote starts (and I have to say that, in our area, it is odd to see any >vehicle without a remote start). I'll post the memo that they printed for me tomorrow. Neither my wife or I has had a a vehicle without a remote starter in nearly ten years. > If your dealer has replaced the battery and this hasn't fixed the concern, > my best guess is that they haven't diagnosed the concern correctly. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> nothing to do with the remote start, now the battery is dead again and >> they are stating there is a new memo. Thanks. FWIW... in the last nearly 15 years, I can count on one hand the vehicles I've had without remote start - and that's only because I haven't had the time to integrate one into the Mustang.... Can they be the cause of a concern? Yep.... But they can also be innocent.... I get the feeling that your dealer doesn't have a good electrical tech... >>I have seen no TSBs, SSMs nor broadcast messages relating directly to >>remote starts (and I have to say that, in our area, it is odd to see any [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >>> said it had nothing to do with the remote start, now the battery is dead >>> again and they are stating there is a new memo. Thanks. > FWIW... in the last nearly 15 years, I can count on one hand the vehicles > I've had without remote start - and that's only because I haven't had the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I get the feeling that your dealer doesn't have a good electrical tech... Jim here again, I'd like to blame the electrical tech but they made this diagnosis before the vehicle was even brought in. That was what bothered me, like I said, two weeks ago it went in under the same circumstances and I was told there was an internal failure in the battery and they replaced it. I even asked if the remote starter could have needed replacing and they said no. This time, as soon as my wife called they they asked right off the bat if there was a remote starter and they never backed down from blaming it. We picked it up today as well as a $95 invoice... Two hours work with only one hour being picked up by the warrantee. >>>I have seen no TSBs, SSMs nor broadcast messages relating directly to >>>remote starts (and I have to say that, in our area, it is odd to see any [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >>>> said it had nothing to do with the remote start, now the battery is >>>> dead again and they are stating there is a new memo. Thanks. >I have seen no TSBs, SSMs nor broadcast messages relating directly to >remote starts (and I have to say that, in our area, it is odd to see any >vehicle without a remote start). Here is the service message they provided: OASIS SPECIAL SERVICE MESSAGE NUMBER: 19292 MESSAGE TITLE: 2006-2007 EXPLORER 4DR/MOUNTAINEER/2007 EXPLORER SPORT TRAC - BATTERY DRAIN OVERA SHORT PERIOD OF TIME - SERVICE TIP APPLICABLE VEHICLES: 2006-2007 TRUCK : 00070 MOUNTAINEER 00134 EXPLORER 4DR 2007 TRUCK: 00110 EXPLORER OASIS MESSAGE: SOME 2006-2007 EXPLORER 4DR, MOUNTAINEER, AND 2007 EXPLORER SPORT TRAC VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT BATTERY DRAIN OVER A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME WITH THE ENGINE OFF. PRIOR TO FOLLOWING NORMAL DIAGNOSTICS, CHECK TO SEE IF THE VEHICLE IS WITH AN AFTERMARKET REMOTE STARTER AND/OR ALARM SYSTEM. IF THE VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH AN IMPROPERLY INSTALLED SYSTEM THAT MAY BE THE CAUSE OF THE DRAIN. TO VERIFY IF THE AFTERMARKET EQUIPMENT IS THE SOURCE OF THE DRAIN FOLLOW WORKSHOP MANUAL SECTION 414-00 TO CHECK FOR EXCESSIVE AMPERAGE DRAW (50 MA/0.050 AMP OR MORE IN SLEEP MODE) BEFORE AND AFTER DISCONNECTING THE SYSTEM. NOTE: ENGINEERING HAS CONFIRMED THAT FORD ACCESSORY SYSTEMS WHEN PROPERLY INSTALLED, WILL NOT CAUSE A BATTERY DRAIN. IF THE DRAIN IS FOUND TO BE CAUSED BY AN IMPROPERLY INSTALLED OR DESIGNED AFTERMARKET SYSTEM, REPAIR IS NOT WARRANTABLE. I had my installer contact the dealer for further info since it wasn't an improper install. What he was told was that it is actually 2005-2007 and the problem is that there is a gem module and prior to '05 this module would 'go to sleep' when the vehicle is off. This gem module is always awake and sees the wiring connection and is always searching for what to do next, that causes the drain. It isn't the starter that is the issue, it is having the locks hooked up to the remote. He's disconnected the locks so now I will have to keep to remotes on the key chains to operate the doors and the starter. I wish I knew this sooner because there is a remote starter that is cheaper and only operates the starter. > If your dealer has replaced the battery and this hasn't fixed the concern, > my best guess is that they haven't diagnosed the concern correctly. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> nothing to do with the remote start, now the battery is dead again and >> they are stating there is a new memo. Thanks. Sadly, SSMs (Special Service Messages) aren't as readily searchable as are TSBs... so I plead ignorance for missing one (or more <insert sheepish grin here>). The SSM they gave you is, quite naturally, going to pump up the Ford branded remote start and give the feeling that other brands just aren't any good... Also, pay close attention to " an improperly installed system that MAY be the cause of the drain ". Too many techs hang their hats on TSBs and such... if the TSB doesn't fix it - nothing will.... I say PIFFLE!!!! For several years now, Ford hasn't connected the door lock switches directly to the door lock actuators.... Instead, the switches command a module to power the actuators one way or the other... On your 07, the power locks are controlled by the SPDJB (Smart Power Distribution Jucntion Box). To have everything function correctly, it will be necessary to wire a pair of relays into the door switch wiring. Older systems would have the door switches reverse polarity to the lock actuators... These newer systems don't do that... To lock the doors, a pulse is sent to the module down one wire... to unlock, a pulse is sent down the other. Your installer should be able to contact the manufacture of the remote start to get the required diagram... >>I have seen no TSBs, SSMs nor broadcast messages relating directly to >>remote starts (and I have to say that, in our area, it is odd to see any [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >>> said it had nothing to do with the remote start, now the battery is dead >>> again and they are stating there is a new memo. Thanks. > I had my installer contact the dealer for further info since it > wasn't an improper install. What he was told was that it is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the starter. I wish I knew this sooner because there is a remote > starter that is cheaper and only operates the starter. There is a fix. You just need to have diodes installed in the lines connected to the lock circuits. An expert installer should know this. Ed
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