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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Explorer / February 2004Transmision problem
I have a 1994 with 200,000 miles and an automatic trans. I had the trans flushed about 2 months ago. Not a fluid change but the power flush system. In the past two weeks the first time I put in reverse it has taken 10 seconds or so to go into gear. After driving it for a little while the problem goes away and it shifts into reverse normally. The trans works fine in dive, shifts crisply with no delay. The torque converter locker works great. It's only in reverse and only when you first drive the truck after it has sat for a day or so. Any ideas at to what is causing this is it something I can fix? Thanks Kevin You're problem sounds vaguely like a torque convertor drainback valve concern... I say vaguely since I am assuming that the problem occurs only because you back out of your driveway after about a 12 hour "cold soak" and you haven't tried to reproduce it in a forward gear position. Check the fluid level in the trans before you start it in the AM..... note the level on the dipstick..... start the motor and recheck the fluid level after 2 or 3 minutes of idling..... note the level on the dipstick. If the dipstick shows overfull on the first check and normal on the second, the convertor is draining back into the pan.... likely some crap caught in the valve. Since the transmission has 200,000 miles on it, if it were mine, I would likely shy away from a stop gap repair. With this kind of mileage, the transmission has served you well and there are (more than likely) other issues that could raise their ugly heads during the repair process. HTH. Jim Warman mechanic@telusplanet.net > I have a 1994 with 200,000 miles and an automatic trans. > I had the trans flushed about 2 months ago. Not a fluid change but the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks > Kevin > You're problem sounds vaguely like a torque convertor drainback valve > concern... I say vaguely since I am assuming that the problem occurs only [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > shows overfull on the first check and normal on the second, the convertor is > draining back into the pan.... likely some crap caught in the valve. Jim Is the anti-drainback valve a Ford only item? I'm not familiar with this in my experience (GM's mostly, I'm afraid). Dave > Since the transmission has 200,000 miles on it, if it were mine, I would > likely shy away from a stop gap repair. With this kind of mileage, the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Thanks > > Kevin Dave, all automatic transmissions are equipped with some sort of torque convertor anti drainback feature. The fluid level in the torque convertor is much higher tha the fluid level in the pan.... without some sort of control, the fluid level in the convertor and the fluid level in the transmission. would equalize. Since the convertor is a fluid coupling in the purest sense of the word, no fluid means no drive - at least until the convertor fills again. Jim Warman mechanic@telusplanet.net > Jim > Is the anti-drainback valve a Ford only item? I'm not familiar with this in > my experience (GM's mostly, I'm afraid). > Dave > You're problem sounds vaguely like a torque convertor drainback valve > concern... > HTH. > > Jim Warman > mechanic@telusplanet.net Jim, That sounds about right. The truck is parked on an incline in our driveway. At work it's parked level but the result is the same. I've never noticed a delay when the trans is put into drive after a cold soak. I'll run the dipstick test today and see what I get. Even with the high mileage I've taken good care of it and it runs and drives great so if there's a problem as you describe I'll look into replacing the trans. One other little thing. Is the steering gear box in these things adjustable like they were years ago? I have all new parts in the front end, ball joints, links, etc... Do I unlock the socket head screw on the top of the gear box and turn it in until snug? Thanks again  SignatureKevin. 1981 Shovelhead Customizing it again www.rileyhome.net/bike A place for Shovel riders www.shovelhead.us Go to the forum Jim, Fluid level is fine and it when I put it into drive after 12 hours (last night at 28deg) it goes into gear with no delay. Still delays with reverse. I'm warming the truck up to see what happens. SignatureKevin. 1981 Shovelhead Customizing it again www.rileyhome.net/bike A place for Shovel riders www.shovelhead.us Go to the forum This puzzles me immensely... my tranny dipstick *always* reads much higher than normal... in every automatic I've ever owned! I have a 94 XLT; the stick always reads much higher than normal, until you start it. In fact, the owner's manual for the 94 explorer says you have to check the tranny *after* running to warm it up. Doesn't the dipstick read incorrectly before that? I'm very confused by your answer. You seem to suggest that the tranny dipstick should read at the normal level before starting the engine...? > You're problem sounds vaguely like a torque convertor drainback valve > concern... I say vaguely since I am assuming that the problem occurs only [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Thanks > > Kevin Still no comment? I'm still very puzzled by your response, Jim... > This puzzles me immensely... my tranny dipstick *always* reads much higher > than normal... in every automatic I've ever owned! I have a 94 XLT; the [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > > Thanks > > > Kevin >Still no comment? I'm still very puzzled by your response, Jim... The tranny fluid level needs to be checked with the engine idling, after running for a few minutes to circulate the fluid and let it warm up a little, and in neutral or park. SignatureBill Funk replace "g" with "a" I got my info from the EXPLORER OWNER'S MANUAL. It says read the dipstick AFTER driving 20 miles! It says it has to get up to "operating temperature" - which it certainly doesn't after just idling for a few minutes. There's even a cold-check procedure in the manual, which the manual says can only be used ABOVE 50 DEGREES (which it most certainly is NOT right now!)... you idle, and put the tranny in each gear (letting it engage)... then put it in Park and read the level BETWEEN THE TWO HOLES on the dipstick - NOT in the hashed area! Obviously, idling at -20 degrees for a few minutes is NOT going to give me an accurate reading! And, the reading after idling is obviously NOT going to be the same as after warming up the tranny - or it wouldn't be necessary to read it at a different point on the dipstick. Worse, the manual says a whole lot about being LEVEL when reading the dipstick - and I can tell you from experience that it varies A LOT when not level, even on a very slight incline... All of this made Jim's answer very puzzling to me... it seems to contradict everything the Explorer Owner's Manual says... and his statement about reading it before starting the engine was even more odd - I've never seen a tranny that could be checked with the engine OFF... Odd, because Jim is usually a pretty good source of information. I just went back and read the original post: "Check the fluid level in the trans before you start it in the AM..... note the level on the dipstick..... start the motor and recheck the fluid level after 2 or 3 minutes of idling..... note the level on the dipstick. If the dipstick shows overfull on the first check and normal on the second, the convertor is draining back into the pan.... likely some crap caught in the valve." Very strange... Now, if all of this is a FORD-ism... > >Still no comment? I'm still very puzzled by your response, Jim... > > The tranny fluid level needs to be checked with the engine idling, > after running for a few minutes to circulate the fluid and let it warm > up a little, and in neutral or park. Jim's recommendation makes clear that he is doing a troubleshooting procedure looking for a defective check valve which would allow the fluid in the converter to drain back into the pan. To check for that, he looks at the fluid level after the vehicle has been parked for a while and then looks again after running the engine. I assume that, if the fluid is draining out of the converter when parked, then the transmission would not work properly until fluid is pumped back into the converter. >I got my info from the EXPLORER OWNER'S MANUAL. > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >> after running for a few minutes to circulate the fluid and let it warm >> up a little, and in neutral or park. I understood that just fine... what he said to do still makes NO SENSE to me. As I said, MY dipstick ALWAYS reads overfull until started - then reads WAY LOW until the tranny is warmed up. Always has. Perhaps it already had a bad check valve when I bought it? Oddly, I've never had the slow engagement problem described in the original post... > Jim's recommendation makes clear that he is doing a troubleshooting > procedure looking for a defective check valve which would allow the [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > >> after running for a few minutes to circulate the fluid and let it warm > >> up a little, and in neutral or park. All auto trans will read overfull when not running. I doubt that you can determine the "degree" to which it is over full in order to determine a drainback of the converter. And a converter will only drain halfway down at best and fill back up quite rapidly. If the problem is noticeable in going from reverse into drive, the converter had already filled and was not at issue. Yes, overfilling can cause the fluid to foam and indeed affect application times. If this is the problem you should see the fluid foamed on the stick. Steve > Jim's recommendation makes clear that he is doing a troubleshooting > procedure looking for a defective check valve which would allow the [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > >> after running for a few minutes to circulate the fluid and let it warm > >> up a little, and in neutral or park. AH... now that makes a lot more sense to me. The stick has always read high not running in every automatic I've ever owned... I had the "foaming" problem with my 85 Buick... The shop that did the fluid replacement after repairing a cracked hose to the tranny cooler put too much fluid in... > All auto trans will read overfull when not running. I doubt that you can > determine the "degree" to which it is over full in order to determine a [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > >> after running for a few minutes to circulate the fluid and let it warm > > >> up a little, and in neutral or park. Anyway, Ford had a better idea and eliminated the transmission dipstick on the new models. No more high or low readings to worry about! >AH... now that makes a lot more sense to me. The stick has always read >high not running in every automatic I've ever owned... [quoted text clipped - 89 lines] >warm >> > >> up a little, and in neutral or park. no dipstick? how do you know there's fluid in there? it's always ticked me off that there's no temp gauge or fluid level gauge for the tranny. If it's so important (and it is) and so prone to damage if the fluid level or temperature aren't right - then why aren't there gauges (or at least idiot lights) to warn you? The only warning you get now is the failure... :( > Anyway, Ford had a better idea and eliminated the transmission > dipstick on the new models. No more high or low readings to worry [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > >warm > >> > >> up a little, and in neutral or park. I had the same problem develop about 3 months after I bought a new 1999 Explorer. Cold start when you first put it into reverse, the transmission would slip, engine rev up o 3,000-4,000 RPM but the car would crawl slowly back. Putting the trans into forward, there was no problem and it would solve the reverse problem. The dealer finally replaced the trans after several trips back to the dealer (No trouble found each time. But it was a reproducible problem) and that solved the problem. >You're problem sounds vaguely like a torque convertor drainback valve >concern... I say vaguely since I am assuming that the problem occurs only >because you back out of your driveway after about a 12 hour "cold soak" and >you haven't tried to reproduce it in a forward gear position. [snip] >HTH. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>seconds or so to go into gear. After driving it for a little while the >>problem goes away and it shifts into reverse normally. [snip] |
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