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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Falcon / June 2004Territory ordered!
TX RWD Silver (metallic paint) Body colour bumpers Cruise Control Alloys 3rd Row Seat. Prestige Sound System. Would have preferred the TS but it won't be launched until much later this year and probably would have just been out of my $$ range. Hope the alloys are the same as the Ghia - but the other type look OK... First complete order at Southside Ford - they have many incomplete ie people waiting to see the options... The dealer went to the launch and said they drove the entire Territory range, the Adventra, Kluger and Prado. He was very impressed - gob smacked in fact as to how much more competent the Territory was on the road. In his words the others were just "plastic toys" inside. Off road it held well against the others too. Kluger./Prado would have been considered if they were more suitable in price and gave the 7seat option. I think I still would have preffered the Territory... I'm ready for the insults about the first of a series and all, and would have liked the luxury of being able to wait, but we just don't have that amount of time and let's face it - as far as seven seaters go, there just aint any better on the market at the moment not in its price range anyway, but even when your talking X5 sorta $$$ this has got to be a consideration - I know of one Ford dealer in Bris who has a lady trading an X5 for a Territory Ghia - and she has owned BMW's all of her life! Besides my XR6 was a pretty early build number and was pretty much problem free, whereas I had an AU2 Forte - late build (just before AU3) and it had a lot of problems - so the theory is only a guide in my opinion. Simon. Sounds great, I've just been looking at the brochure myself. The alloys are shown at http://www.ford.com.au/configurator/configurator.asp?vehicle=36&model=187 under exterior. Well done. > TX RWD > Silver (metallic paint) [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Simon. > TX RWD > Silver (metallic paint) [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > price and gave the 7seat option. I think I still would have preffered the > Territory... Never mind that the extra 2 seats are a joke. > > Kluger./Prado would have been considered if they were more suitable in > > price and gave the 7seat option. I think I still would have preffered the > > Territory... > > Never mind that the extra 2 seats are a joke. I guess nothing competes with a CRV picnic table, eh? Brett > TX RWD > Silver (metallic paint) [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > competent the Territory was on the road. In his words the others were > just "plastic toys" inside. Off road it held well against the others too. like the Dealer would ever say otherwise lol. Well despite the conflict of interest he would have told me in a less enthusiastic manner if he wasn't so keen - he is also a mate. SL > > The dealer went to the launch and said they drove the entire > > Territory range, the Adventra, Kluger and Prado. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > like the Dealer would ever say otherwise lol. > TX RWD > Silver (metallic paint) [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Simon. Hope you enjoy it. Getting a new car is great. Fraser > TX RWD > Silver (metallic paint) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Would have preferred the TS but it won't be launched until much > later this year and probably would have just been out of my $$ range. I can't see the point of the thing in 2WD, may as well have bought a Falcon wagon. BTW I don't believe that they are any easier to get in and out of, either for adults or small children. I hope its as good as all the reports. Daryl "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message > I can't see the point of the thing in 2WD, may as well have bought a > Falcon wagon. I can see some advantages, but I generally agree. > BTW I don't believe that they are any easier to get in and out of, > either for adults or small children. I do :) For mine, I've found that the easiest vehicle to get in and out of is one were the seat base is high enough for me to simply slide my arse onto without having to bend in any way, and it's the same when lifting kids into their seats. With higher vehicles, you lift them up and into their seats, as opposed to up and *down* and into their seats. It really is much easier on the back. > I hope its as good as all the reports. I hope so too, and I would have waited a while myself considering all the people currently pissing their pants about the Territory are the *same* people who voted the problematic BA to be Car of the Year :) Regards, Noddy. >"D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message > >> I can't see the point of the thing in 2WD, may as well have bought a >> Falcon wagon. > >I can see some advantages, but I generally agree. Agree too, but I would bet the Territory has a better ride than the Falcon wagon. The key though is it has he high driving position and 4wd look. >> BTW I don't believe that they are any easier to get in and out of, >> either for adults or small children. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >It really is much easier on the back. Iv'e tried the Territory and they are much easier to get in/out of than a sedan, >> I hope its as good as all the reports. > >I hope so too, and I would have waited a while myself considering all the >people currently pissing their pants about the Territory are the *same* >people who voted the problematic BA to be Car of the Year :) Bullshit. You reckon the 4WD mags voted in COTY too? Your just going to have to accept the BA is a damm good car one day Noddy, and its not just the Aussie journos saying this neither :) Just read another mixed feelings test of the Adventra too, biggest complaint was again fuel economy and surprise surprise, interior trim which was described as shocking, piss poor considering its not a new model inside :) "Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Agree too, but I would bet the Territory has a better ride than the > Falcon wagon. The key though is it has he high driving position and > 4wd look. Indeed. "Pose value" is extremely important to most people, for both cars and mobile phones :) > Bullshit. You reckon the 4WD mags voted in COTY too? I have no idea to be honest Kieron, as I don't read them. > Your just going to have to accept the BA is a damm good car one day > Noddy, and its not just the Aussie journos saying this neither :) I don't have to do any such thing! Jesus Christ :) I've already made my mind up about the BA Kieron, and it's highly unlikely to get better as it becomes an older and even *more* problematic car... I'm very much looking forward to seeing what the series two looks like, and listening to Ford explain what they changed. I imagine it'll be lots... > Just read another mixed feelings test of the Adventra too, biggest > complaint was again fuel economy and surprise surprise, interior trim > which was described as shocking, piss poor considering its not a new > model inside :) Haven't seen inside one, but it's the same as the standard VY isn't it? To be honest it's the fist complaint I've heard about *quality*. As far as economy goes, it's a 5.7 litre engine in a heavy car. Yet *another* f.cking rocket scientist motoring writer... Duh.. :) Regards, Noddy. st Kieron, as I don't read them. >> Your just going to have to accept the BA is a damm good car one day >> Noddy, and its not just the Aussie journos saying this neither :) > >I don't have to do any such thing! Jesus Christ :) Fair enough. But your views are at odds with many :) >I've already made my mind up about the BA Kieron, and it's highly unlikely >to get better as it becomes an older and even *more* problematic car... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Haven't seen inside one, but it's the same as the standard VY isn't it? To >be honest it's the fist complaint I've heard about *quality*. Same as VY which in itself is an updated VT interior. The first test done by Wheels broke a shock and popped a C pillar panel off although Holden did redesign the C pillat panel. >As far as economy goes, it's a 5.7 litre engine in a heavy car. Yet >*another* f.cking rocket scientist motoring writer... Thats not the jurnos point though, its the range and if people will accept that economy, like I said elsewhere, Holden should have used the V6 lathough I can understand them holding off with the new engine coming. "Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Fair enough. But your views are at odds with many :) No, my views are largely at odds with fanatics like you, who can't deal with people not loving their favourite car the same way they do :) > Same as VY which in itself is an updated VT interior. So how come they complain about the Adventra interior and not the VY's? > The first test done by Wheels broke a shock and popped a C pillar > panel off although Holden did redesign the C pillat panel. Must have been some f.cking test :) > Thats not the jurnos point though, its the range and if people will > accept that economy, like I said elsewhere, Holden should have used > the V6 lathough I can understand them holding off with the new engine > coming. I think the concept wouldn't have worked as well (assuming it's working now, of course), if it had of been just a 6 cylinder wagon with awd. My theory anyway... Regards, Noddy. >"Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >> Fair enough. But your views are at odds with many :) > >No, my views are largely at odds with fanatics like you, who can't deal with >people not loving their favourite car the same way they do :) I couldn't give a f.ck if you love the BA or not, I just don't rate your opinion at all. Still, what I say is quite true, your views are at odds with the majority of people who have objectively compared the competitors. f.ck, even the new head of Holden after driving the BA for a while was impressed with it, I rest my case. >> Same as VY which in itself is an updated VT interior. > >So how come they complain about the Adventra interior and not the VY's? How would you know if they didn't complain about the VY, you don't read the mags :) >> The first test done by Wheels broke a shock and popped a C pillar >> panel off although Holden did redesign the C pillat panel. > >Must have been some f.cking test :) Actually, it wasn't a full test, more a drive familiarity with Holden techs. >> Thats not the jurnos point though, its the range and if people will >> accept that economy, like I said elsewhere, Holden should have used [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I think the concept wouldn't have worked as well (assuming it's working now, >of course), if it had of been just a 6 cylinder wagon with awd. >My theory anyway... Fair enough, the V8 + all the Adventra fruit prices outside the mass soft roader market in my view :) "Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I couldn't give a f.ck if you love the BA or not, I just don't rate > your opinion at all. Still, what I say is quite true, your views are > at odds with the majority of people who have objectively compared the > competitors. f.ck, even the new head of Holden after driving the BA > for a while was impressed with it, I rest my case. Wow. He'd probably say the same thing if he drove just about anything else, too. It's called "decorum"... > How would you know if they didn't complain about the VY, you don't > read the mags :) I don't., but if there had been any criticisms of the VY's dash in the motoring media previously, I'm sure you would have fallen over yourself to let me know about it :) > Actually, it wasn't a full test, more a drive familiarity with Holden > techs. Yeah? What were they getting familiar with? Live anti-tank rounds? :) > Fair enough, the V8 + all the Adventra fruit prices outside the mass > soft roader market in my view :) Indeed, but that's not the market they're aiming at I expect. Anyone who's interested in a Escape/Rav/X-Trail is probably not going to be interested in a V8 Holden station wagon to be honest. I think Holden is trying to create their own small niche market by combining the "favourable" aspects of each existing one into the one vehicle. By that I mean the Adventra tows as well as a dedicated 4wd, has the off-road ability of most of the other soft roaders yet retains most of the driving comfort and agility of a regular car. I think Ford has done a very good job with the Territory, as much of it as I've seen anyway, but they've elected to "play it safe" by slotting it straight into the dedicated "soft road" category, against a field of relatively "soft" competitors (pardon the pun). I'm not criticising them for that, or saying that the Adventra is a better vehicle or visa versa. Given Ford's investment in the all new Territory compared to Holden's "modified wagon" Adventra, I can't say I'd do things any differently myself. Regards, Noddy. >"Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Wow. He'd probably say the same thing if he drove just about anything else, >too. It's called "decorum"... ROFL, you've got a half baked answer for everything Nod :) he didn't have to drive it and he didn't have to comment on it, but he chose too. >> How would you know if they didn't complain about the VY, you don't >> read the mags :) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >What were they getting familiar with? Live anti-tank rounds? :) Sure yep, and what your alluding to is the Adventra is bulletproof wheras the turbo BA that had a shutdown due to computer problems in an early test isn't. >> Fair enough, the V8 + all the Adventra fruit prices outside the mass >> soft roader market in my view :) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >straight into the dedicated "soft road" category, against a field of >relatively "soft" competitors (pardon the pun). True, Ford have had to play it very safe over the last few years, wheras Holden can afford to experiment. >I'm not criticising them for that, or saying that the Adventra is a better >vehicle or visa versa. Given Ford's investment in the all new Territory >compared to Holden's "modified wagon" Adventra, I can't say I'd do things >any differently myself. I believe Holdens long term plans might be to introduce AWD to the garden variety Commodore, if this is the case i'm not sure they are barking up the right tree here, we really don't need AWD in Australia. If I where Holden, I would have done a Territory, after all, the old GM saying is we are in business the make money not cars :) we really don't need AWD in Australia. We dont? I think we need AWD more than FWD. :-p Jesus there is some places I wouldn't even dare to take a 2wd vehicle. -- All the best Dan. ... and tonight on the Jerry Springer show "farmers who abuse their hoes" "Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > ROFL, you've got a half baked answer for everything Nod :) he didn't > have to drive it and he didn't have to comment on it, but he chose > too. It may be half baked to you Kieron, but you seem to only want to apply this type of reasoning when it suits you. I can recall more than one CEO of Ford Australia commenting favourably on the Commodore, but that didn't automatically mean it was a good car.... > Sure yep, and what your alluding to is the Adventra is bulletproof > wheras the turbo BA that had a shutdown due to computer problems in an > early test isn't. For f.ck's sake... :) I never said or implied that the Adventra is a bulletproof car Kieron, and you know that. I was simply curious as to how they managed to break a shocker and pop off a welded panel. That's sh.t you normally don't do just simply driving up a dirt road, and it's just a *tad* different than a car that shuts it's engine down because it's management computer doesn't want to play any more... > I believe Holdens long term plans might be to introduce AWD to the > garden variety Commodore, if this is the case i'm not sure they are > barking up the right tree here, we really don't need AWD in Australia. It's not a matter of "needs", but "wants"... We don't "need" traction control, anti-lock brakes, etc, etc. However, we are constantly bombarded with "experts" like Wheels, Motor and whoever the f.ck else telling the average pleb that these things 0are *cool*, and that it'd be downright nifty to have them in our average bread & butter family sedans. It makes something like a Falcon or Commodore more "exotic", and the man in the street can associate with things like Audi and Subaru. > If I where Holden, I would have done a Territory, after all, the old > GM saying is we are in business the make money not cars :) I've never heard that saying attributed to General Motors before, but it wouldn't surprise me it it was. They are involved in much more than simple car building, unlike Ford... Regards, Noddy. >"Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I can recall more than one CEO of Ford Australia commenting favourably on >the Commodore, but that didn't automatically mean it was a good car.... Take it in isolation it doesn't no. But when the majority say it, your going to have to at least think they are right, unless your heads so far stuck up your arse that you can't see and only talk out of it :) >> Sure yep, and what your alluding to is the Adventra is bulletproof >> wheras the turbo BA that had a shutdown due to computer problems in an [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >you know that. I was simply curious as to how they managed to break a >shocker and pop off a welded panel. The panel was flexing at high speeds on the road. Granted they shock broke offroad, but FFS it was built to go offroad!! >That's sh.t you normally don't do just simply driving up a dirt road, and >it's just a *tad* different than a car that shuts it's engine down because >it's management computer doesn't want to play any more... The turbo shut down after a hammering by Motor mag, ie whilst doing what it was built to do, the fault was the computer detecting an oil overtemp when it wasn't. The Adventra broke a shock while doing what it was built to do. Absolutely no difference. >> I believe Holdens long term plans might be to introduce AWD to the >> garden variety Commodore, if this is the case i'm not sure they are [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >It makes something like a Falcon or Commodore more "exotic", and the man in >the street can associate with things like Audi and Subaru. I'd agree with you there Nod. >> If I where Holden, I would have done a Territory, after all, the old >> GM saying is we are in business the make money not cars :) > >I've never heard that saying attributed to General Motors before, but it >wouldn't surprise me it it was. They are involved in much more than simple >car building, unlike Ford... It was a General Motors heavy back in the 60's or early 70's who said it IIRC. your last comment is wrong too :) "Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Take it in isolation it doesn't no. But when the majority say it, your > going to have to at least think they are right, unless your heads so > far stuck up your arse that you can't see and only talk out of it :) Kieron, you need to put things into context here, and stop being so general. The majority may very well say that the thing is a "good car" in terms of it drives nice, has a smooth engine, is finished reasonably well and is good value for money, and on those points I'd certainly agree. I think it *does* have a smooth engine that is certainly capable of propelling the somewhat obese car along at an impressive rate, it *does* handle well, it has excellent brakes, and the paint and panel finish on the ones I've had anything to do with has been the best I've seen from a locally built car, and by a long way. However, what is largely ignored not only by the mass mototring media but by people such as yourself is that the car has a fairly unflattering history of bugs, faults and recalls for *piddling* quality control issues that are not only an embarrassment to both the car and Ford, but draw attention to the fact that either Ford is not capable of making a product better than this, or they don't give a f.ck and this is all they want to do. To me, that *certainly* is not car of the year material, and the attitude of yourself and others of finding such sh.t aceptable "first model" behaviour is ridiculous if you ask me.... > The panel was flexing at high speeds on the road. Granted they shock > broke offroad, but FFS it was built to go offroad!! with respects Kieron, the thing looks like it was built for beach sand :) > The turbo shut down after a hammering by Motor mag, ie whilst doing > what it was built to do, the fault was the computer detecting an oil [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Absolutely no difference. Complete crap and you know it. The fault with the Falcon was a "bug" that forced it into failsafe mode. The problem with the Adventra was a catastrophic failure of a major component. As to *why* it failed I can't tell you, other than to say being used "off road" is a little to general to know. > It was a General Motors heavy back in the 60's or early 70's who said > it IIRC. your last comment is wrong too :) But of course :) It would be more accurate to suggest that General Motors has a greater diversity in non automotive areas than Ford... Regards, Noddy. >"Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >drives nice, has a smooth engine, is finished reasonably well and is good >value for money, and on those points I'd certainly agree. Which is where I have been coming from all along. >I think it *does* have a smooth engine that is certainly capable of >propelling the somewhat obese car along at an impressive rate, it *does* >handle well, it has excellent brakes, and the paint and panel finish on the >ones I've had anything to do with has been the best I've seen from a locally >built car, and by a long way. ditto >However, what is largely ignored not only by the mass mototring media but by >people such as yourself is that the car has a fairly unflattering history of >bugs, faults and recalls for *piddling* quality control issues that are not >only an embarrassment to both the car and Ford, but draw attention to the >fact that either Ford is not capable of making a product better than this, >or they don't give a f.ck and this is all they want to do. Which is where you have been coming from. >To me, that *certainly* is not car of the year material, and the attitude of >yourself and others of finding such sh.t aceptable "first model" behaviour >is ridiculous if you ask me.... Firstly COTY can't and does not take into account those types of problems. Secondly, don't get me wrong, I don't like to have to become a free test driver for anyone,(i'm definately not the first to jump for 'bleeding edge' technology in IT. What I do understand is we are a small market, designing/building a $$ intensive product exclusively for this market is always going to result in a compromise somewhere and its usually testing and I like to support a good Aussie product rather than some import, but like I have always said, as long as it gets fixed. >> The panel was flexing at high speeds on the road. Granted they shock >> broke offroad, but FFS it was built to go offroad!! > >with respects Kieron, the thing looks like it was built for beach sand :) Corrugated roads at the very least too :) >> The turbo shut down after a hammering by Motor mag, ie whilst doing >> what it was built to do, the fault was the computer detecting an oil [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Complete crap and you know it. Don't put words into my mouth. Its a f.cking identical situation. >The fault with the Falcon was a "bug" that forced it into failsafe mode. The >problem with the Adventra was a catastrophic failure of a major component. > >As to *why* it failed I can't tell you, other than to say being used "off >road" is a little to general to know. As it was with Holden techs, I doub't they where bouncing it off the side of the Bungles Bungles. The article is in the latest Wheels, havn't got it in front of me though. Good thing is, like Ford with the oil temp sensor problem, it was looked at immediatly, Holden rightly passed the dud shock back to the supplier. > > It was a General Motors heavy back in the 60's or early 70's who said >> it IIRC. your last comment is wrong too :) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >It would be more accurate to suggest that General Motors has a greater >diversity in non automotive areas than Ford... I wouldn't doubt that, i'm unsure of the other areas GM are involved in. Ford Aerospace was sold off some time ago, and as far as I know only have Hertz and a finance arm outside of vehicle manufacture. "Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Which is where you have been coming from. Indeed, and it's a part of the neighbourhood that you don't like hanging out in :) > Firstly COTY can't and does not take into account those types of > problems. You're partly right here in saying that they don't. The "can't" side is complete bullshit. There have been cars in the past that have been awarded the (in)famous COTY award, and their problems have been aparent from the day dot. The P-76 and JB Camira are the two most obvious examples. In other cases, the award has been handed to models for nothing other than to reckognise a company's perserverence with a problematic design. The XP Falcon being the best example there. The point being that the COTY award as handed out by Wheels magazine is *not* given to the best car, but rather the best concept, break from tradition or improvement over a previous model. The fact that the car is or isn't an unreliable heap of sh.t at the time the award is handed out is completely beside the point.... > Secondly, don't get me wrong, I don't like to have to become a free > test driver for anyone,(i'm definately not the first to jump for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rather than some import, but like I have always said, as long as it > gets fixed. That all sounds sweet and patriotic, but it doesn't justify anyone who makes cars in 2004 to have the kinds of problems Ford is having with such *basic* components as brake rotors, tailshafts and driveline backlash. That kind of sh.t was "leading edge technology" in 1949.... > Don't put words into my mouth. Its a f.cking identical situation. Only in your mind Kieron :) > As it was with Holden techs, I doub't they where bouncing it off the > side of the Bungles Bungles. The article is in the latest Wheels, > havn't got it in front of me though. Good thing is, like Ford with the > oil temp sensor problem, it was looked at immediatly, Holden rightly > passed the dud shock back to the supplier. Breaking a shocker is generally a difficult task. Regards, Noddy. <| Noddy |> did write on 21May2004 at 2:48:22 PM >> As it was with Holden techs, I doub't they where bouncing it off the >> side of the Bungles Bungles. The article is in the latest Wheels, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. Not if it's a Koni.  SignatureToby quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur Warning: All posts to be treated with a grain of salt. By Order K.K. "Toby Ponsenby" <toby@privacy.net> wrote in message > Not if it's a Koni. Ooh, nasty :) Regards, Noddy. >"Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >> Which is where you have been coming from. > >Indeed, and it's a part of the neighbourhood that you don't like hanging out >in :) I've spent a bit of time in it and you'd be stupid to say you do like to hang in it :) >> Firstly COTY can't and does not take into account those types of >> problems. > >You're partly right here in saying that they don't. The "can't" side is >complete bullshit. Of course they f.cking can't, its COTY which stands for Car of The Year, the key word being YEAR, lets say a car it released in Nov, Dec/Jan is COTY time but problems don't surface for 3 months >There have been cars in the past that have been awarded the (in)famous COTY >award, and their problems have been aparent from the day dot. The P-76 and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >The fact that the car is or isn't an unreliable heap of sh.t at the time the >award is handed out is completely beside the point.... Exactly. >> Secondly, don't get me wrong, I don't like to have to become a free >> test driver for anyone,(i'm definately not the first to jump for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >cars in 2004 to have the kinds of problems Ford is having with such *basic* >components as brake rotors, tailshafts and driveline backlash. Look in other car markets, same sh.t happens but we are to a degree insulated from it as those markets iron out the bugs before the vehicle gets to us. >That kind of sh.t was "leading edge technology" in 1949.... > >> Don't put words into my mouth. Its a f.cking identical situation. > >Only in your mind Kieron :) If you fail to comprehend what I have said then your mind is more closed than I initially thought :) >> As it was with Holden techs, I doub't they where bouncing it off the >> side of the Bungles Bungles. The article is in the latest Wheels, >> havn't got it in front of me though. Good thing is, like Ford with the >> oil temp sensor problem, it was looked at immediatly, Holden rightly >> passed the dud shock back to the supplier. > "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. > "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > without having to bend in any way, and it's the same when lifting kids into > their seats. Maybe if you find a car with a seat about the same height as your arse:-) I don't recall having any problem lifting kids in and out of cars and its such a short term thing that I wouldn't base a car buying decision on the height of the seats. My Fairlane is a lot easier to get in and out of than the Landcruiser. It only seems like yesterday my kids were babies yet my 21 yr old moved out yesterday and the 18yr old is at Uni. Daryl "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message > Maybe if you find a car with a seat about the same height as your > arse:-) Yeah, I've been looking for an MG for a while :) Regards, Noddy. > I can't see the point of the thing in 2WD, may as well have bought a > Falcon wagon. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Daryl For me the point is that I cannot afford the extra $4K for 4wd and hill descent. I need a large versatile vehicle that meet my demands of quality, safety and refinement, as well as decent handling. I can tell you for less than the price of a Futura Wagon, you have a higher level of comfort and quality interior, a better looking vehicle, that handles and rides better too. Too bad the fuel economy won't be as good though... For me 4wd was a side issue - something to keep me amused, but not of importance to the rest of the family. Now let's pretend for a minute that a Toyota Avensis or Mazda MPV were comparible on price or a Kia Carnival was comparable on any level except seating. Think for half a second which vehicle you would choose in a frontal impact. Let's pretend that the other vehicles are not FWD, they still handle like a bus. Yeah I would have liked to tick the 4wd box, especially since I have lost an XR6 for this thing - but we are purchasing this thing for function. As for the height thing - they are not super jacked up off road behemoth's they are sensibly taller than a standard sedan/wagon - and allow six footer's like myself and my wife to slide in easily. It will also allow us to load the twins without having to bend too much. SL > For me the point is that I cannot afford the extra $4K for 4wd and hill > descent. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > handles and rides better too. Too bad the fuel economy won't be as good > though... Being cheaper than the Falcon wagon is good enough reason to buy it. I just can't see the point of making an AWD vehicle then deleting the front drive, maybe if they were all AWD then the economies of scale would make the AWD version cheaper. I'm disappointed that Ford didn't complete the task and make a proper 4WD, we don't need any more soft roaders, there are too many of the useless things already. If I was in the market for a 4WD a Territory wouldn't be on my list and most people would consider me a "Ford man". Daryl I'm sure the Exploder, err Explorer wouldn't be on your list either? > If I was in the market for a 4WD a Territory wouldn't be on my list and > most people would consider me a "Ford man". > > Daryl > I'm sure the Exploder, err Explorer wouldn't be on your list either? Correct, I'd either buy a real 4WD or none at all. Landcruiser, Patrol or LR Discovery. Daryl >Being cheaper than the Falcon wagon is good enough reason to buy it. >I just can't see the point of making an AWD vehicle then deleting the >front drive, maybe if they were all AWD then the economies of scale >would make the AWD version cheaper. I think the reason is many people are buying these things for the pose value as Noddy pointed out. >I'm disappointed that Ford didn't complete the task and make a proper >4WD, we don't need any more soft roaders, there are too many of the >useless things already. The public are wanting this sort of thing though. In the past they have been buying chassis based 4WD's which are a compromise. For instance, I've heard plenty of women complain about having to drive/park these things and this is where the likes of the Territory/Kluger come in. >If I was in the market for a 4WD a Territory wouldn't be on my list and >most people would consider me a "Ford man". If I where in the market for a 4wd, the Territory would be on the list if it where a daily driver and I wanted to do a little offroading every now and again. If I were into offroading like Pat, it would be Prado or something of that ilk. > >Being cheaper than the Falcon wagon is good enough reason to buy it. > >I just can't see the point of making an AWD vehicle then deleting the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think the reason is many people are buying these things for the pose > value as Noddy pointed out. Sad isn't it, we are surrounded by w.nkers. > >I'm disappointed that Ford didn't complete the task and make a proper > >4WD, we don't need any more soft roaders, there are too many of the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > drive/park these things and this is where the likes of the > Territory/Kluger come in. The drive system doesn't make them any different to park, my Fairlane is a lot more difficult to park than the SWB Landcruiser because its longer and wider, about the same size as a Falcon wagon. A lot of women find a Barina difficult to park, most should never be allowed to get a license. Daryl > Sad isn't it, we are surrounded by w.nkers. > A lot of women find a Barina difficult to park, most should never be > allowed to get a license. > > Daryl Pot. Kettle. Black. w.nker... Maybe if the holden driver in front, would give her room to move, she could be able to park. Even males have trouble parking. Peter > > Sad isn't it, we are surrounded by w.nkers. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Pot. Kettle. Black. > w.nker... "TheTaipan" <blah@blah.com> wrote in message news:40a1cb9c$0$13706 > He was very impressed - gob smacked in fact as to how much more > competent the Territory was on the road. In his words the others were > just "plastic toys" inside. Off road it held well against the others too. No offence, but would you expect the dealer to say otherwise? I haven't even seen the Territory yet, apart from TV and newspaper adds, but I'd be more than a little surprised if it was *half* as good as either a Prado or a Kluger off road :) I'm not at all knocking the Territory, and I may even by one myself. However, it looks to me to be exactly what it is: A large urban wagon. The other two are off road vehicles.... Regards, Noddy. > "TheTaipan" <blah@blah.com> wrote in message news:40a1cb9c$0$13706 > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > The other two are off road vehicles.... Im sure one of our local 4x4 crazies will rip that last comment hard Noddy :) Kluger is a jacked up camry. "Martin Hogan" <marty@REMOVE-MEvr4.kicks-a.s.net> wrote in message news:40a2a724$0 > Im sure one of our local 4x4 crazies will rip that last comment hard Noddy > :) They probably will :) > Kluger is a jacked up camry. And the Prado? Regards, Noddy. <| Noddy |> did write on 13May2004 at 9:38:27 AM > "Martin Hogan" <marty@REMOVE-MEvr4.kicks-a.s.net> wrote in message > news:40a2a724$0 [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. A deflated Cruiser........ SignatureToby quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur Warning: All posts to be treated with a grain of salt. By Order K.K. > "Martin Hogan" <marty@REMOVE-MEvr4.kicks-a.s.net> wrote in message > news:40a2a724$0 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And the Prado? Full chassis and transfer case with low gearing make it a "proper" 4WD. Daryl I think you will find the Kluger is not designed with the same off-road parameters as the Prado. It is an AWD vehicle with light off-road intentions - and due to slightly better approach/exit angles and mm higher ground clearance - may get around some places where a Territory/Adventra may not. But Territory is the only one of these three with a hill descent control. Prado is built on separate ladder chassis and handles like a truck - but is a well deserved off road champ. The design intentions of Kluger and Territory don't have that kind of off-road work in mind. Should be equal to Kluger in most off road applications - with a big advantage in hill descent as neither have low-range gears. I have no intention of exploring the off-road capabilities of this vehicle. I would have considered the Kluger much more closely if it were around $10K cheaper. The Kluger is also a "large urban wagon" based loosely on the Camry. > "TheTaipan" <blah@blah.com> wrote in message news:40a1cb9c$0$13706 > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. > I think you will find the Kluger is not designed with the same off-road > parameters as the Prado. Then why did Ford have a Prado on the testing choice for its dealers? They have different uses,the real reason is price,the Prado is right in the price range,bust vastly superior off-road,and the top of the range Grande Prado with air-suspenison would be in the ride level of the Terry if not better > It is an AWD vehicle with light off-road intentions - and due to slightly > better > approach/exit angles and mm higher ground clearance - may get around some > places where a Territory/Adventra may not. But Territory is the only one of > these three with a hill descent control. HDC is a croc. , it is nothing more than a automatic application of the brakes that applies the ABS,whats so smart about that?,every ABS equipped vehicle has that,just slame your foot on the brake pedal and it is on ! > Prado is built on separate ladder chassis This newish edition will be the last,she is going "all in one" body too and handles like a truck No they dont,go drive one, the new model is excellant,but ok not like a Kluger [Freddy] or Terry CDIHL - > I think you will find the Kluger is not designed with the same off-road > parameters as the Prado. I know. I was actually thinking of something else, but it doesn't matter. Regards, Noddy. >"TheTaipan" <blah@blah.com> wrote in message news:40a1cb9c$0$13706 > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I'd be more than a little surprised if it was *half* as good as either a >Prado or a Kluger off road :) Bloody hell, judging it from your arse already Nod :) Why in hell would you be surprised and how are you judging it to the others? Its already been tested by a few mags including 4WD ones, and is superior to these, needless to say its superior to the Adventra too! I reckon you need a 4wd Nod, have they got a beach you could take it too at Fishermans Bend? :) > I reckon you need a 4wd Nod, have they got a beach you could take it > too at Fishermans Bend? :) No beachs @ FishermansBend,best you can do is the Yarra River,bit deep though even for a snorkel equipped 4x4 When it is all said and done Ford do need a pat on the back for the excellant job done on this new Terry,still wonder why the excellant factory Tickford/Prodrive developed LPG system is not offered [yet] ? With fuel @$1/1000ml she is screaming for it, and no other AWD offers it,lost chance really to offer something that no other 4WD/AWD has, and already prob. 85% engineering work to fit has been done Be the end of Falcon Wagons,Explorer and COTY to boot i would say... CDIHL On Thu, 13 May 2004 12:25:04 +1000, "TerracottaWarrior®" <hatzolah@hotmail.com®> wrote: >> I reckon you need a 4wd Nod, have they got a beach you could take it >> too at Fishermans Bend? :) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >excellant job done on this new Terry,still wonder why the excellant factory >Tickford/Prodrive developed LPG system is not offered [yet] ? Ford have answered this. With the Falcon, most gas purchasers where fleet companies. Since the Terry won't really be bought by fleet companies, they did not see it worth the investment to put it in. > >When it is all said and done Ford do need a pat on the back for the > >excellant job done on this new Terry,still wonder why the excellant factory > >Tickford/Prodrive developed LPG system is not offered [yet] ? > Ford have answered this. With the Falcon, most gas purchasers where fleet > companies. Since the Terry won't really be bought by fleet companies, they > did not see it worth the investment to put it in. I have heard a strong-rumor [remember my posts of the Turbo 6,DedicatedLPG,Typhoon where the first posted here]that a dedicated LPG Terry is in the works. LPG systems are going into a major electronic revamp for 01/01/05 [new EPA compliance] both from Holden and Ford, so expect it out around at that time or latter,how much latter is not know yet .Perhaps Holden will have the new system out in the HFV6 VZ October? The reason for non fitting at this time is the huge drop in Kw from 182 down to 157 ,Ford felt the drop is too large and considering the weight,the performance suffered together with the small range.The new system "alleged" uses only 5% more than ULP instead of the current 25% more,this would equal a extra 20% range on current tank size fitted to old LPG Dedicated systems They have no option but to develop it as fleets are going to buy 2WD Terrys as they have around the same room yet are better value and features ,suspension,and resale than a wagon can offer all for $2k more.I would say the wagon days are numbered,prob. the real reason for offering a 2WD edition. Like it or not the SUV/AWD is the fastest growing segment on the planet,every brand HAS to be part of it,one would think that Holden after having a good hard look at iteself will have to have another go at developing something along the lines of the Terry,the Adventura is a overpriced underdone joke and the Jackaroo is on its last legs Isuzu are giving it the axe,seeing the effort from them is piss poor perhaps they should import Hummers ? CDIHL > > >When it is all said and done Ford do need a pat on the back for the > developing something along the lines of the Terry,the Adventura is a > overpriced underdone joke and the Jackaroo is on its last legs Isuzu are > giving it the axe,seeing the effort from them is piss poor perhaps they > should import Hummers ? I think holden want to import a version of the Chevy Equinox. http://www.chevrolet.com/equinox/gallery.htm Even the Cadillac SRX http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/models/gallery.jsp?model=srx# BOth models come as RWD or AWD and can be had with the 3.6L v6 With current tax rates though it makes no sense to import 2wd and 4wd of any vehicle as 4wd have tax exemptions on imports - therefore you'd end up getting the 4wd cheaper than 2wd on the road... That's why 2wd Territory is such a great market for a local manufacturer to take advantage of. > > > >When it is all said and done Ford do need a pat on the back for the > > developing something along the lines of the Terry,the Adventura is a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > BOth models come as RWD or AWD and can be had with the 3.6L v6 > With current tax rates though it makes no sense to import 2wd and 4wd of > any vehicle as 4wd have tax exemptions on imports - therefore you'd end up > getting the > 4wd cheaper than 2wd on the road... Current duty? Never said anything about TODAY :) You are looking at a couple of years n the future when duty rates for cars will be similar to the 4wd vehicles. Richard > >"TheTaipan" <blah@blah.com> wrote in message news:40a1cb9c$0$13706 > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Bloody hell, judging it from your arse already Nod :) Why in hell > would you be surprised and how are you judging it to the others? considering the amount of drugs he is taking for pain , well I cant be arsed either as Im certain after recent experience Node is totally wrong and being very subjective > Its already been tested by a few mags including 4WD ones, and is > superior to these, needless to say its superior to the Adventra too! > > I reckon you need a 4wd Nod, have they got a beach you could take it > too at Fishermans Bend? :) that would be admitting defeat , and as you know attack is the best defense when wrong . "Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Bloody hell, judging it from your arse already Nod :) Why in hell > would you be surprised and how are you judging it to the others? I'd be surprised if it was as good as a Prado off road, as the thing looks like it has about as much ground clearance as a regular Falcon wagon. I'd happily wager any money you like a prado would leave it for dead in the rough stuff, and that's all I said.... > Its already been tested by a few mags including 4WD ones, and is > superior to these, needless to say its superior to the Adventra too! You believe every single thing you read in the press, don't you Kieron? :) > I reckon you need a 4wd Nod, have they got a beach you could take it > too at Fishermans Bend? :) Kieron, no offence mate, but you're very rapidly looking like a one-eyed Ford apologist to me.... Regards, Noddy. >"Kieron" <kieronm302@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I'd be surprised if it was as good as a Prado off road, as the thing looks >like it has about as much ground clearance as a regular Falcon wagon. I must apologies here, I didn't read your original sentence correctly, I missed the off road bit. I agree the Prado will sh.t on the Terri offroad. >I'd happily wager any money you like a prado would leave it for dead in the >rough stuff, and that's all I said.... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >You believe every single thing you read in the press, don't you Kieron? :) No, but unlike you I at least accept what others have to say, especially when it comes from people whos job it is to compare vehicles. If many tests repeatidly say the Adventra was superior, i'd accept that >> I reckon you need a 4wd Nod, have they got a beach you could take it >> too at Fishermans Bend? :) > >Kieron, no offence mate, but you're very rapidly looking like a one-eyed >Ford apologist to me.... No offence taken, you can think what you like., I have never made it a secret about being one eyed. Some of the things I say are fishing for a bite from you, just as you do to me :) You attack the sh.t out of the BA, I come back at you its all in good fun Nod. > "TheTaipan" <blah@blah.com> wrote in message news:40a1cb9c$0$13706 > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > The other two are off road vehicles.... The Prado yes, Kluger is just another soft roader which is the Territories direct competitor. Daryl "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message > The Prado yes, Kluger is just another soft roader which is the > Territories direct competitor. I know. For some reason I was thinking of a forerunner when the Klugher was mentioned. I went to a swap meet in Geelong today, and sat along side a Kluger for quite a while on the highway, and came to the conclusion that the Territory has absolutely snotted it in the looks department at least. Build quality would be a big challenge I expect though... Regards, Noddy. > "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message >>The Prado yes, Kluger is just another soft roader which is the >>Territories direct competitor. > For some reason I was thinking of a forerunner when the Klugher was > mentioned. There is a step missed in there too. The Prado and 4Runner became a different family in Aus when a skydiver landed on the roof of a Prado at the launch here in Sydney around 1996 (I was there at the time, the Prado was air lifted in by chopper minus it's engine in a big media event). It left with foot print sized dents in the roof - I expected the dents to be larger. The 4Runner went on to become Tacoma/Hilux based in the US, and we ended up with Prado. Strange as that might seem. > > "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > The 4Runner went on to become Tacoma/Hilux based in the US, and > we ended up with Prado. They get the Prado in the States - it is sold there as the Lexus GX470, with a 4.7L V8. > TX RWD > Silver (metallic paint) [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > competent the Territory was on the road. In his words the others were > just "plastic toys" inside. Off road it held well against the others too. Funny that,Ford obvs. designed a Terry friendly track to show it up better off-road.Calling a Kluger a plastic-toy,he has got to be joking the quality of the material and assy. of the Toyota would be a level Ford can never reach.... The simple fact is a Prado wound destroy it off road thanks to higher ground clear., low range box, suspension travel etc etc Ford have a proper heavy-duty 4x4 it is under the name F250 and they are great... Having said that i took our X Trail S1 up and over the AlcoaPowerLine track @ Anglesea State Forest and it was very very impressive,esp when you consider i have in the past driven hard core 4x4's such as a L/Crusier and HiLux Most of these "soft" 4x4/AWD are prob. what 95% of the people would ever want or require. You forgot to tell us the most important things : 1/How much did it cost ya ? 2/How long before delivery? I am sure Ford will do its best to make sure very little difference between early build and latter build,i see heaps of Terrys on the road,heaps of pilot and dealer samples have been built. What you need to worry about [not that you can do anything] is running-changes that are made,sometimes done so assy. is easier but it ould because a fault or problem has been found Good luck,well done and keep us informed CDIHL > Kluger./Prado would have been considered if they were more suitable in > price and gave the 7seat option. I think I still would have preffered the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Simon. >The simple fact is a Prado wound destroy it off road thanks to higher ground >clear., low range box, suspension travel etc etc It certainly would, but Ford never designed the Territory to compete with the likes of the Prado offroad, its a ground up soft roader, and will steal sales off the likes of the Prado which you would could say is becoming an outmoded chassis style 4wd only suited to those serious offroaders and i'd say that market is shrinking with the advent of large softroaders such as the Terri and Kluger and possibl Adventra when a V6 comes online. Ford would have included it in the dealer drives to point out what the differences are in the competition >I'm ready for the insults about the first of a series and all, and would >have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >she >has owned BMW's all of her life! Good to here Simon. I look forward to following your experience with it. >Besides my XR6 was a pretty early build number and was pretty much problem >free, whereas I had an AU2 Forte - late build (just before AU3) and it had a >lot >of problems - so the theory is only a guide in my opinion. I tend to agree, you can get a goody or a baddy but I think a first model is more prone to the problems. You would expect the Territory to be fairly well screwed together as Ford will have learnt from the BA at least in regard to the engine and brakes. |
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