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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Falcon / April 2004

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cooling system weaknesses

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Rob & Shel - 05 Apr 2004 22:58 GMT
A friend reckons, "until the AU2 series, Fords are notorious for
losing/using coolant".
Is there is any truth in this, & what are the common problems?

Mine is a 98 EL, & only I ever feel concerned with the temp gauge
indications when driving in hot slow traffic....but the gauge is only 3/4
towards the red.  It's only ever had slight seepage at top hose connection.

thanks
Noddy - 05 Apr 2004 23:07 GMT
> A friend reckons, "until the AU2 series, Fords are notorious for
> losing/using coolant".
> Is there is any truth in this, & what are the common problems?

There is no truth to this whatsoever, and the cooling systems of most
Falcons (aside from the EA) are perfectly adequate for the task without any
inherent problems.

However, like any, they will cause problems if neglected....

Regards,
Noddy.
Rob & Shel - 05 Apr 2004 23:54 GMT
thanks :)

yeah, regular maintenance with & tlc is the go.

rob

> > A friend reckons, "until the AU2 series, Fords are notorious for
> > losing/using coolant".
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Regards,
> Noddy.
Dave T. - 06 Apr 2004 00:05 GMT
driving them properly, respectfully and keeping it well maintained and it
will not leak.

however, ive never done any of the above - except the maintenance part, and
ive never owned one that didn't leak.

> thanks :)
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> > Regards,
> > Noddy.
Noddy - 06 Apr 2004 00:59 GMT
"Dave T." <417ci-ohc-v8@Perth.com.au> wrote in message news:4071e61b$0$16584

> however, ive never done any of the above - except the maintenance part, and
> ive never owned one that didn't leak.

With respects, if you've never owned one that didn't leak, then your
maintenance wasn't up to scratch :)

I've serviced hundreds of them over the years as part of my business (Holden
& Falcon fleet clients were my specialty), and I'm sorry to say that most of
the rumours about coolant problems, leaks, and head gasket issues with late
model Falcons are little more than urban myth and old wife's tails
perpetuated by unscrupulous repairers.

The reason why I'm sorry is that if any of it had been even *remotely* true,
I would have made a shitload more money and retired a few years earlier :)

Regards,
Noddy.
Dave T. - 06 Apr 2004 05:30 GMT
I don't treat my fords nice at all, maintenance is done to the km with
10,000k servicing.

I'd love to know though, how the f&^k to stop hoses leaking at there joints,
ive tried using some loctite that's designed for it, but it just gets forced
out by the coolant. what's the best thing to use?

> "Dave T." <417ci-ohc-v8@Perth.com.au> wrote in message news:4071e61b$0$16584
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Regards,
> Noddy.
Noddy - 06 Apr 2004 06:38 GMT
> I'd love to know though, how the f&^k to stop hoses leaking at there joints,
> ive tried using some loctite that's designed for it, but it just gets forced
> out by the coolant. what's the best thing to use?

There's a couple of water sealing compunds available that work very well in
this regard, but the product I've had the greatest success with is a sealing
compound called "Stag".

It's a reddish brown coloured paste that stinks to the high heaven and is
terrible sh.t to try to get off your fingers, but an application of it to
clean hoses and hose connections can see you driving around with the hose
clamps removed once it's cured, and no leaks in sight.

Regards,
Noddy.
Dave T. - 06 Apr 2004 10:26 GMT
sounds like exactly what ive been searching for my whole life.

what company manufactures this "stag"? I will commence hunting for it
immediately.

> > I'd love to know though, how the f&^k to stop hoses leaking at there
> joints,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Regards,
> Noddy.
Noddy - 06 Apr 2004 10:49 GMT
"Dave T." <417ci-ohc-v8@Perth.com.au> wrote in message news:4072779f$0$16576

> what company manufactures this "stag"? I will commence hunting for it
> immediately.

Not sure who actually makes it, but I think it's made in England.

It's usually sold through most Repco or Burson's outlets.

Regards,
Noddy.
Jason James - 07 Apr 2004 00:46 GMT
> "Dave T." <417ci-ohc-v8@Perth.com.au> wrote in message news:4072779f$0$16576
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Regards,
> Noddy.

Been round since Jesus was a boy. Used to be a plumbers friend back when
rope-fibre was used to seal water-pipes.

My reconned clevo uses water,....cant see where it goes, about litre a
month. Got the treatment at the time including a new heater.
aussieblu - 07 Apr 2004 14:16 GMT
Have to ask: Did you work in a real Aussie State like WA, NT or
Qld where we get real summers or Vic or Tas with pretend summers
that don't really test cooling systems?  :-)

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Regards
Blue

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Noddy - 07 Apr 2004 16:03 GMT
> Have to ask: Did you work in a real Aussie State like WA, NT or
> Qld where we get real summers or Vic or Tas with pretend summers
> that don't really test cooling systems?  :-)

Who are you asking?

Regards,
Noddy.
aussieblu - 08 Apr 2004 13:34 GMT
You. re  "I've serviced hundreds of them over the years as part
of my business (Holden
& Falcon fleet clients were my specialty), and I'm sorry to say
that most of
the rumours about coolant problems, leaks, and head gasket
issues with late
model Falcons are little more than urban myth and old wife's
tails
perpetuated by unscrupulous repairers."

Give your handle I was tempted to suggest Toyland. :-)

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Regards
Blue

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Noddy - 08 Apr 2004 14:20 GMT
> You.

Oh, okay.

Sometimes it helps to quote some of the message you're replying to, so
people know who it is, in fact, you're talking to.

> Give your handle I was tempted to suggest Toyland. :-)

I often used to think so, given some of the stupid requests I'd get from
clients who thought they knew everything, but had to bring their cars in to
me when things got difficult :)

Regards,
Noddy.
Brenden Will - 08 Apr 2004 02:25 GMT
hahaha. Vic not getting real summers. Is 40+ deg c hot enough? Yes we've had
quite a few in the just past summer.

One of the day I was out there digging my burried tap for my new home.
Bloddy bluiders!! Another time I can remember I had my XB out there running
and it didn't even get hot. I'd forgotten to replug the thermo fans back in.
The alloy heads to an excellent job releasing heat.

Brenden

> Have to ask: Did you work in a real Aussie State like WA, NT or
> Qld where we get real summers or Vic or Tas with pretend summers
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Remove Z from email address to reply directly.
aussieblu - 08 Apr 2004 13:34 GMT
40c doesn't rate a mention in Marble Bar.

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Regards
Blue

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aussieblu - 08 Apr 2004 13:40 GMT
PS  OK after looking here:
http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/tempmaps.cgi?page=map&variable=tmaxhigh&pe
riod=3month&area=aus

I agree you have had some hot ones lately. But how come whenever
I go to Melbourne it's cold and wet?
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Regards
Blue

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Noddy - 08 Apr 2004 14:21 GMT
> 40c doesn't rate a mention in Marble Bar.

Funny, 'cause Marble Bar doesn't rate much of a mention down here, either :)

Regards,
Noddy.
Brenden Will - 07 Apr 2004 11:19 GMT
Ford never seems to maintain their own vehicles very well anyway.

My EL's head hasket went @ 140,000 and again @ 190,000. The 140,000k one was
repaired and serviced @ Ford till 150,000k's.

I  got sick of getting the car back running worse than it was before I sent
it in. I recieved the car back with numerous issues on various occasions. I
used to mark my parts and ask for my old parts back. That's where they came
unstuck. As the parts handed back were unmarked (from someone elses car) and
the marked parts were still on my car. I had various refunds ranging from
spark plugs/leads/rotor caps/rotor buttons etc. I've even repaired their
errors in the Ford dealers/service dept driveway myself. They got pretty
upset about it.

I had a ripper of a time with the dealer. They'll never see the car ever
again.

I've repaired the head gasket myself this time (190,000) as I found @ the
140,000k head gasket replament. Ford re-used my old head bolts! They'd not
replace/check various parts and neglected to clean the radiator which I
replaced 2000k's later.

I've found I am loosing about 1lt of coolant every four months. I've since
found one leak which I rectified. The 5/16th hose running to the thermostat
housing was leaking. Still can't find the other leak but I will. Even though
I think 1lt every 4mths of 2/10ths of f'all.

Although I've had not a single issue with my Hyundai's cooling system. I
just flushed it out recently and worked  out the last time I checked the
coolant/water in that car was 3 years ago. Yet it's never shown any signs of
coolant lose or wear and tear.

In regards to the Falcon I reckon I got a lemon. It's had a knocking in the
front end from almost the start which I am sure is the steering rack or
tierod ends. Ford never said a word about it during their servicing as it
would have cost them warranty $$$$.

I've left it a further 3 years as I've seen plenty just the same and they
never got any louder or had uneven tyre wear.

One day I'll get around to letting a workshop near the car as I really can't
be stuffed fixing the run about cars. I just do whatever it takes to keep
them on the road. My main priority is a car that I drag race. That gets my
undivided time/$ and attention.

Brenden

> > A friend reckons, "until the AU2 series, Fords are notorious for
> > losing/using coolant".
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Regards,
> Noddy.
Kittbagg - 06 Apr 2004 03:30 GMT
> A friend reckons, "until the AU2 series, Fords are notorious for
> losing/using coolant".
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> thanks

The head gasket has a tendency to give away around the 105,000 km mark (EF
&EL models) - that is usually attributed to using the incorrect coolant
though. So still a maintenance problem I suppose (even if Ford was using the
incorrect stuff initially too). This has happened to one person that I was
working with and Ford claimed that he had the wrong coolant in (even though
it had only been serviced by Ford).

Had an EB with around 150,000 on it when I sold it and the only problem I
had was a small ampunt of corrosion on the top radiator hose where it
connected to the water pump (IIRC) but that was a 5 minute job to clean up
myself.

Had an o-ring die in the water pump of my AU2 XR6 Ute - that was picked up
and repaired at the service. I had nmoticed that I had to fill up the header
with about a litre or so just before the service (and in a blonde moment
forgot to mention it when booking the car in - thankfully they did pick it
up during the service)

Kittbagg
Raven - 06 Apr 2004 11:26 GMT
Hi folks;
             My EA has a braided type hose bottom and top, with threaded
connections that havent failed me yet. Much more expensive than the normal
clamps and hoses, but i breezed across the Nullabor with no hassles. Also if
one keeps a eye on things on a regular basis, to home in on probs before
they get too far gone, then water or cooling probs coullld be solved before
big bucks are parted with.

Peter
> A friend reckons, "until the AU2 series, Fords are notorious for
> losing/using coolant".
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> thanks
aussieblu - 06 Apr 2004 15:30 GMT
Well the 6's do often have a problem with casting sand blocking
the radiator, they need to be air bled correctly when refilling
with coolant and the older ones  need the correct dual acting
thermostat fitted.

And  while I am a bit of a Ford fan,  as the owner of two
Fairlanes (a NB six and NC 8) and one 1980 Mitsubishi  LC Lancer
with 300,000km on the clock that has never had any cooling
system problems or had the head removed, I reluctantly have to
rate the 6 cylinder Ford cooling system as  less reliable and
more finicky than most of the cars I have owned in the last 30
plus years (the 1970 mini was worse as it used to blow by pass
hoses regularly but after all that was a UK design). However,
while I say the cooling system is a weaker part of the car I
wouldn't say it is so bad that it should deter anyone from
buying one.

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Regards
Blue

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Jason James - 07 Apr 2004 00:48 GMT
> Well the 6's do often have a problem with casting sand blocking
> the radiator, they need to be air bled correctly when refilling
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Regards
> Blue

That bypass hose was a prick of a thing. Had to sort of concetina the hose
to get it to pop in.

Jason
aussieblu - 07 Apr 2004 14:13 GMT
Yes I remember two RAC roadside repair who thought they new how
going through both their shifts without getting the hose on.

Actually I eventually found the concertina hoses failed too
frequently and the reinforced straight ones lasted much, much
longer. The trick was to grease the inside of each end of the
straight hose fold it in the middle so half of each end went on
the pipes at each end  at the same time and then it slipped on
so it was then a one minute job.

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Blue

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Rob & Shel - 08 Apr 2004 22:22 GMT
Thanks for the much appreciated varied feedback.

The sealant I used on my hoses was some old Loctite gasket seal that was
kicking around.

My 98 EL has 110k on the clock with no real apparent mechanical  "Ford
problems" yet (touch wood etc).

The only probs I'd had was:
At the time of initial sale from new, the dealer decided it's "ok" to sell a
new car with 3/4 of the left side with pooped up panel damage.....the paint
showed bubbles after 3 months which drew my attention to the overall panel
finish: sh.t!  Since then I'd been in & out of assorted dealers (as I'd
since moved interstate) with them trying to get the car looking
"un-repaired" to no avail.
Ford Motor Company & the selling dealer were total a.sholes over this issue.
Legal advice told me it'd cost me more $$$ to get the damage fixed by taking
them to court.

Dodgy wiring from an LPG conversion done @ about 20k.....inline fuse &
connections were just dangling in the engine bay so that over the years
they've gotten very slack & have failing connections.

@ about 100k one of the plug leads was arcing on the rocker box.....a new
set with extra zip ties to stop any vibration chafing.

Recently replaced most of the exhaust as it rusted away from the outside....
hot seaside humidity killed it.

Wagon tailgate lock failure.  Probably poor design at fault.
But like anything if it's parked exposed to the elements then something's
gotta give.....one of these centuries I'll have a garage :)

A recommended local mech seems fair dinkum & interested in "seeing the car
right" to the probs I can't fix myself..
I'd never entrust my car to a mech again without numerous personal
recommendations.
I certainly wont ever bother with any dealership again!

That friend who spoke of the cooling system weaknesses did also mention
something about "the wrong coolant from manufacturer" etc etc.
I did note back in 98 that it did appear that the coolant had already been
changed as there were orange coolant stains in the coolant reservoir even
tho the coolant I was looking at was green.

cheers

> A friend reckons, "until the AU2 series, Fords are notorious for
> losing/using coolant".
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> thanks
Dave T. - 09 Apr 2004 00:09 GMT
When we picked up my brothers new AU and did the inspection, I found 9 run's
& orange peeled paint on the roof, it was galaxy blue, so it wasn't all that
hard to spot. upon showing them to the dealer, he suggested its a mass
produced car and this is to be expected. They attempted a fix on the orange
peel, needless to say what ever they did was bodgy since that area is down
to primer today.

> That friend who spoke of the cooling system weaknesses did also mention
> something about "the wrong coolant from manufacturer" etc etc.
> I did note back in 98 that it did appear that the coolant had already been
> changed as there were orange coolant stains in the coolant reservoir even
> tho the coolant I was looking at was green.

The handful of times ive used the overpriced rip-off ford coolant, the green
stuff does infact dry red.

Next coolant change ill be using valvoline G05 coolant, its what's rebottled
into "genuine Mercedes" coolant bottles and is what all the current mercs
leave the factory with. If its good enough for the maybach, its good enough
for my heap of sh.t.
Rob & Shel - 09 Apr 2004 00:43 GMT
There was some talk back in '98 (maybe from one of the numerous repair
dealerships) that the red coolant shouldn't be used.
Anyways it's a good call to use good coolant together with demin water, & to
change it when as per service schedule  :)

Is the 4-year concentrate coolant from Supercheap Autos any good you reckon?
think it was about $24 per large bottle (not sure of the size).

Hope ur having a good Easter break, btw.

cheers

> When we picked up my brothers new AU and did the inspection, I found 9 run's
> & orange peeled paint on the roof, it was galaxy blue, so it wasn't all that
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> leave the factory with. If its good enough for the maybach, its good enough
> for my heap of sh.t.
Jason James - 12 Apr 2004 16:29 GMT
> There was some talk back in '98 (maybe from one of the numerous repair
> dealerships) that the red coolant shouldn't be used.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> cheers

That 4 year stuff has a comensurate amount of ethyl-whatever in it. Or in
other words, you pay for what %  additive you get.

Jason
Dave T. - 13 Apr 2004 00:33 GMT
i wouldnt mess with incorrect coolants with the i6, you dont want to corrode
the head gasket.

as for the v8, who gives a toss, any monkey that can hold a spanner can
change their head gaskets :)

> > There was some talk back in '98 (maybe from one of the numerous repair
> > dealerships) that the red coolant shouldn't be used.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Jason
Kieron - 13 Apr 2004 02:11 GMT
>There was some talk back in '98 (maybe from one of the numerous repair
>dealerships) that the red coolant shouldn't be used.

I always used the red Ford coolant in my EF XR6, sold it at 154,000
with no head gasket problems

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