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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Falcon / May 2005NC Fairlane heating problem
Hello all. I have a strange problem. Prior to a front end prang my 94' NC Fairlane would over heat only when towing a heavy trailer on a hot day. After the accident and with a new radiator the car now runs too cool. So cool in fact that I no longer have a heater in winter. I have replaced the thermostat twice and double checked that they were working fine. I replaced the water temp sensor. I disconnected the heater hoses going through the fire wall and checked for blockages, but water runs freely through the heater. I tried the heater on a 40 plus degrees day and I did get some heat coming through. So the heater seems ok. Things I have not checked out are the fan viscous clutch and the water pump, but ruled them out as I reckoned that if they were faulty I would be over heating not under heating. Besides I'm sure the fan clutch is ok as it seems to stop turning once I've got speed up and it turns freely when I turn it by hand. Any further things I should check out anyone? Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers No Spam Please rogdon2004@NOSPAM.hotmail.com Remove the obvious spamtrap not likely anything to do with what you've done, it has climate control right? blend door linkage is probably broken - its plastic and requires entire dash removal to repair. This applies to NF/L fairlanes but im sure its probably to same for you > Hello all. > I have a strange problem. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Remove the obvious spamtrap > not likely anything to do with what you've done, it has climate control > right? > > blend door linkage is probably broken - its plastic and requires entire dash > removal to repair. This applies to NF/L fairlanes but im sure its probably > to same for you True, when those climatic control gadgets are working, they are great, but get a small fault in them and they are the worst things in the world to try and fix, I have an NA with problems it won't heat mush, get it to about 25? and that's about it, so in the winter, you freeze your nuts off, so instead of tearing out my hair and the complete dash, I installed a 12volt camp fan heater, not entirely 100%, but its better than reaching your destination as a pseudo ice-block. I was looking around for an old Smiths type heater that I used to have in the Commer years ago, but they are as scarce as hens teeth, both the fan and the Commer. > > Hello all. > > I have a strange problem. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > > > Remove the obvious spamtrap >not likely anything to do with what you've done, it has climate control >right? Correct. The A.C. cooling is perfect, just not the heating. >blend door linkage is probably broken - its plastic and requires entire dash >removal to repair. This applies to NF/L fairlanes but im sure its probably >to same for you Where is this linkage located and what does it look like? Thanks for your help Ziggy. >> Hello all. >> I have a strange problem. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >> Remove the obvious spamtrap Cheers No Spam Please rogdon2004@NOSPAM.hotmail.com Remove the obvious spamtrap > Where is this linkage located and what does it look like? > Thanks for your help Ziggy. On the Nc, I dont know for sure - i suggest you purchase one of those books that shows such proceedures step by step if your going to do home maintenence, they are around $30. >> Where is this linkage located and what does it look like? >> Thanks for your help Ziggy. > >On the Nc, I dont know for sure - i suggest you purchase one of those books >that shows such proceedures step by step if your going to do home >maintenence, they are around $30. I have manuals. Would this blend motor also effect the engine temp guage in the instrument panel? Because this guage doesn't come off cool except if I rev it hard on a really hot day and that is when I can feel some hot air coming from the heater. I'm reluctant to go to the trouble of accessing the blend motor unless I'm absolutely sure that is the culprit. Cheers No Spam Please rogdon2004@NOSPAM.hotmail.com Remove the obvious spamtrap > I have manuals. > Would this blend motor also effect the engine temp guage in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > accessing the blend motor unless I'm absolutely sure that is the > culprit. No, it won't affect the temp gauge. It sounds as if the engine isn't getting to the right temperature, and this will not only make the heater perform poorly, but it's not healthy for the engine as well. Engine wear increases exponentially with every degree below optimum operating temperature, and running an engine 10 to 15 degrees below where it should be is as harmful as over heating it. Before you go to the trouble of pulling the dash apart, check your cooling system, and in particular your thermostat. Most taxi fleets ran a 92 degree thermostat in their cars to keep them constantly "on the boil" which prolonged engine life, and this will certainly help you *provided* your cooling system is in good order. -- Regards, Noddy. >> I have manuals. >> Would this blend motor also effect the engine temp guage in the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >optimum operating temperature, and running an engine 10 to 15 degrees below >where it should be is as harmful as over heating it. Yes I agree with everything you say and that's why I'm concerned. Over heating problems are obvious, but under heating is new to me. >Before you go to the trouble of pulling the dash apart, check your cooling >system, and in particular your thermostat. Most taxi fleets ran a 92 degree >thermostat in their cars to keep them constantly "on the boil" which >prolonged engine life, and this will certainly help you *provided* your >cooling system is in good order. The radiator is brand new and I flushed the engine block before installing. I tried 2 new thermostats. I tested them both in a pot on the stove with a thermometer and both worked ok. One was a couple of degrees hotter so I put that back in, but still no improvement. Changed the engine block temp sender unit too :-( Cheers No Spam Please rogdon2004@NOSPAM.hotmail.com Remove the obvious spamtrap Thanks everyone for your help. I'll check out the blend motor and the fresh/recycle door. Still don't understand why the temp guage reads cool though. Happy New Year to ALL :-) Cheers. >>> Where is this linkage located and what does it look like? >>> Thanks for your help Ziggy. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Remove the obvious spamtrap Cheers No Spam Please rogdon2004@NOSPAM.hotmail.com Remove the obvious spamtrap >>not likely anything to do with what you've done, it has climate control >>right? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Where is this linkage located and what does it look like? >Thanks for your help Ziggy. The blend door motor or linkage is the culprit. Its in a bastard of a place, requiring the dashboard to be removed - big $$ fix. There is also a plastic linkage on the fresh/recirc door which is almost ceretainly broken, not that it effects the heater that much though. > There is also a plastic linkage on the fresh/recirc door which is > almost ceretainly broken, not that it effects the heater that much > though. I had this break on my EL Ghia and the result was a car full of other car's fumes all the time as the door was stuck in 'fresh' mode. It had no effect on the heating side of things, as you have pointed out. There were two ways of fixing it, remove a lot of stuff and replace the broken linkage (a rather expensive path to take I was told) or move the door to closed (recirc) and screw it into place (which is what I ended up having done). The biggest surprise out of this is that when it happened, I did a yellow pages search and found the nearest air con fixer-upperer, explained the problem, he said he knew exactly what was wrong (surprise number 1) and to bring the vehicle down. I did just that and he fixed it for free (BIG surprise number 2). I couldn't believe it. I had never been there or called there before, and not only did he diagnose the problem over the phone (more or less), he fixed it for nix and it's been perfect ever since (about 5 years ago now). It's nice and somewhat unusual to run into people and businesses like this these days. I doubt that I'll ever experience anything like that again :) Jason. > The blend door motor or linkage is the culprit. Its in a bastard of > a place, requiring the dashboard to be removed - big $$ fix. The Fairlanes had auto climate control, and the blend door is operated by an electric control unit directly on top of the heater box, almost right behind the centre dash air outlets. It's not exatcly the same fault as the blend door linkage on regular Falcons, but it's still a bitch to replace if it needs to be, and requires the entire dash to be removed. However, the fault can sometimes be due to the door motor being out of calibration, and the climate control has a "reset" procedure that *might* rectify it. The procedure is initiated as follows: Warm the engine to normal operating temperatue (this is critical. Drive at least 5 km's first). When done, turn the ignition on, and while holding the "Floor" button on the climate control, press the "Off" button and then release both. This will put the climate control unit into diagnostic mode, and will also calibrate the blend door motor assembly. You'll know if you've done it right as the led's on the climate control will turn on, and the temperature reading will show "88.8" degrees for around 30 seconds. When the test/recalibration is completed, the system will display "Off" if it was successful. If not, it will give a series of two digit error codes reporting whatever faults it finds. There are 7 error codes ranging from E1 to E7, and all but two relate to sensors in the system. E2 is the Blend door servo code, and if it lists this as a fault you either have an obsturction preventing the blend door from closing properly (which requires the dash out to fix the problem), or the servo motor needs to be replaced (which *also* requires the dash out to fix the problem). Hopefully the recalibration takes care of it, but it's not known to be a 100% reliable fix. > There is also a plastic linkage on the fresh/recirc door which is > almost ceretainly broken, not that it effects the heater that much > though. It's almost certainly broken, as I've yet to come across a 10 year old Falcon/Fairlane that isn't :) It affects the heater to a degree, as this flap controls fresh air in and makes "recirc" impossible, making it all that much harder for the heater to warm the cold incoming air. Sadly, the heaters have been one of the absolute *worst* aspects of Ford's for years, and a lot of repairers have made a shitload of money on them. -- Regards, Noddy. >> The blend door motor or linkage is the culprit. Its in a bastard of >> a place, requiring the dashboard to be removed - big $$ fix. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >Hopefully the recalibration takes care of it, but it's not known to be a >100% reliable fix. Thanks very much Noddy. I was reading about the reset feature in my manual last night and was going to try it today, but my manual wasn't as detailed as your description. I'll let you know how I get on. Something else I didn't think of but should have mentioned was that in my prang the bonnet flew up and smashed the windscreen. So perhaps there is broken glass blocking the blend door and the recycle/fresh door too. >> There is also a plastic linkage on the fresh/recirc door which is >> almost ceretainly broken, not that it effects the heater that much >> though. > >It's almost certainly broken, as I've yet to come across a 10 year old >Falcon/Fairlane that isn't :) Perhaps if it IS broken I can screw it shut as someone here suggested. Sounds like I'm gunna have to take the dash out though :-( Thanks again. >It affects the heater to a degree, as this flap controls fresh air in and >makes "recirc" impossible, making it all that much harder for the heater to >warm the cold incoming air. > >Sadly, the heaters have been one of the absolute *worst* aspects of Ford's >for years, and a lot of repairers have made a shitload of money on them. Cheers No Spam Please rogdon2004@NOSPAM.hotmail.com Remove the obvious spamtrap > Something else I didn't think of but should have mentioned was that in > my prang the bonnet flew up and smashed the windscreen. So perhaps > there is broken glass blocking the blend door and the recycle/fresh > door too. That's a very real possibility. Both the fresh air flap (which is operated by a vacuum motor) and the blend door are easily obstructed by foreign objects that can prevent them from operating properly, such as leaves or other wind blown objects that find their way through the wiper scuttle and into the heater unit. The frsh air vent flap is the most problematic in this regard as it deals with the air coming in directly, whereas the blend door is behind the heater core which tends to act somewhat like a filter. Broken glass can cause problems, and you may find that the blend motor is fine but the heater core itself is blocked by all kinds of crap, preventing adequate air flow. > Perhaps if it IS broken I can screw it shut as someone here suggested. I've seen it done a few times, and it's the easiest fix. The problem stems from the vacuum motor pulling too hard on the flimsy plastic lever attacthed to the flap, and over time it tends to simply snap the lever off. Replacing it with an intact original is a waste of time, as it'll suffer the same fate before very long. I usually make a replica lever from a stronger material, such as alluminium, but screwing the flap closed works well too. > Sounds like I'm gunna have to take the dash out though :-( Possibly. Be prepared for an interesting day :) > Thanks again. You're welcome. Good luck, and happy new year. -- Regards, Noddy. >>It's almost certainly broken, as I've yet to come across a 10 year old >>Falcon/Fairlane that isn't :) >> >Perhaps if it IS broken I can screw it shut as someone here suggested. This one is no big deal. It defaults to fresh when broken which is preferable, if you want to switch to recirc you can reach up inside the intake plenum in the passenger footwell and flip the door by hand, it will stay in recirc until the fan goes off usually. > This one is no big deal. It defaults to fresh when broken which is > preferable, if you want to switch to recirc you can reach up inside > the intake plenum in the passenger footwell and flip the door by hand, > it will stay in recirc until the fan goes off usually. The only problem with leaving it in "fresh" is that it lets in all the outside air all the time, and you can't shut it off unless you manually close all the "face" vents. That also means it lets in all the outside smells, and there's nothing worse than a car full of diesel smoke when you're driving in traffic. -- Regards, Noddy. >> This one is no big deal. It defaults to fresh when broken which is >> preferable, if you want to switch to recirc you can reach up inside [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >That also means it lets in all the outside smells, and there's nothing worse >than a car full of diesel smoke when you're driving in traffic. Bloody 4wd's :) True though, but better than permanent recirc which is nosier and will eventually be sucking in stale air. I ran the climate control reset procedure and it did indeed come up with error code E2 which is the blend motor. I'm hoping now that it is just clogged with broken glass as the climate control was working perfectly before the prang. A big job. Thanks everyone for your help. Cheers. >> The blend door motor or linkage is the culprit. Its in a bastard of >> a place, requiring the dashboard to be removed - big $$ fix. [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >Sadly, the heaters have been one of the absolute *worst* aspects of Ford's >for years, and a lot of repairers have made a shitload of money on them. Cheers No Spam Please rogdon2004@NOSPAM.hotmail.com Remove the obvious spamtrap >Hello all. >I have a strange problem. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >clutch is ok as it seems to stop turning once I've got speed up and it >turns freely when I turn it by hand. Well here is an update to the above problem and what I found out and how I fixed it. The blend door error E2 had displayed in the diagnostic mode, so I removed the dash and what I discovered was that the bled door motor was in perfect working order BUT the blend door itself was binding ever so slightly on the closed section, just enough so the little motor couldn't move it. I worked the door back and forth for awhile to try and free it but couldn't. I decided to remove the motor arm from the splined shaft and moved it just one spline towards the open direction and tried it on the door. It worked perfectly for the hour or so that I tested it just to make sure. Wasn't going to put the dash back in until I was absolutely sure the problem was resolved. Double checked the fresh/recycle door and vac actuator too and gave it a spray of silicon lube and it was working perfectly. Installed the dash and ran diagnostics and no errors. However still no warm air from the heater. So I removed the thermostat housing and before I removed the thermostat I looked inside the housing and I could see that the thermostat was stuck open. As I said in my original post I had tried 2 new thermostats but now I could see what the problem was. I had bought the thermostats from a Auto One shop and both times he had given me a 6 cylinder one instead of what I had asked for, an 8 cylinder one. The 6 cylinder ones have a spring loaded valve that closes the bypass when the thermostat opens fully. The V8 thermostats don't have this. So the thermostats I had been sold were opening ok a couple of times but then at some stage the bypass valve jammed itself against the bend of the housing and locked itself in the open position. I could see scratch marks on the housing where this valve had been scrapping a few times till it eventually jammed. Now with a new correct thermostat and the blend door motor adjustment I now have an engine running at normal temps and the climate control is working perfectly as well. So 2 separate problems with very simple solutions but a lot of work involved. I now don't trust parts suppliers but ask them to double check they are giving me the correct parts before I pay for them. Thanks for everyone help and advice. Cheers. Cheers No Spam Please rogdon2004@NOSPAM.hotmail.com Remove the obvious spamtrap >Now with a new correct thermostat and the blend door motor adjustment >I now have an engine running at normal temps and the climate control [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Thanks for everyone help and advice. Good to hear, well done mate.
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