Since new, my 2002 has a starting problem every couple of weeks. It can
happen in freezing cold, or hot weather, or first thing in the morning or
after driving for a while and stopping for gas or groceries. One turns the
key and nothing happens - just silence. However, the lights, radio, etc, are
still working. After 5 to 20 minutes of attempts, it starts like nothing had
ever happened. The dealer "cleaned the ignition switch contacts" to no
avail. Of course, it starts fine at their shop. After several visits, they
said they do not know what is wrong and I will have to wait until it will
not start permanently so they can diagnose it and, perhaps, replace the
starter. (Meanwile the warantee is over - sound familiar?). Love the car but
my wife now refuses to drive it for fear of being stranded if she ever stops
on the way home.
I would be grateful for any ideas or tales of similar problems!
Mark Olson - 26 Feb 2005 17:18 GMT
> Since new, my 2002 has a starting problem every couple of weeks. It can
> happen in freezing cold, or hot weather, or first thing in the morning or
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> on the way home.
> I would be grateful for any ideas or tales of similar problems!
Sounds like what happens when you try to start the car with an
unprogrammed PATS key. As an experiment, I tried to start my 2000
Focus with a new key after it had been duplicated on the key cutter,
but before it had been programmed. I expected the starter motor to
turn but the computer to withold sparks, but what happened was
exactly nothing, the starter motor would not even crank.
I suspect either the chip in your PATS key may be interrmittently failing,
or there may be a loose connection to the telemetry coil surrounding the
ignition switch cylinder. You might try using the 2nd key for a while
and see if the problem goes away, if so, you could be pretty sure it
was the key itself.
Tony Wesley - 26 Feb 2005 17:31 GMT
> > Since new, my 2002 has a starting problem every couple of weeks. It can
> > happen in freezing cold, or hot weather, or first thing in the morning or
> > after driving for a while and stopping for gas or groceries. One turns the
> > key and nothing happens - just silence. However, the lights, radio, etc, are
> > still working. [snip]
> Sounds like what happens when you try to start the car with an
> unprogrammed PATS key.
I agree. Once in a while, mine does that too. But only very briefly.
I've always attributed it to interference caused by my Mobil Speed Pass
on my keyring. I think I read somewhere (how's that for a reliable
source? <grin>) that Ford said not to keep the Speed Pass on the
keyring due to potential problems.
Do you have anything on your keyring that might possibly interfere?
Michael Heiming - 26 Feb 2005 17:52 GMT
In alt.autos.ford.focus Tony Wesley <tonywesley@gmail.com>:
>> > Since new, my 2002 has a starting problem every couple of weeks. It
> can
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> etc, are
>> > still working. [snip]
>> Sounds like what happens when you try to start the car with an
>> unprogrammed PATS key.
> I agree. Once in a while, mine does that too. But only very briefly.
> I've always attributed it to interference caused by my Mobil Speed Pass
> on my keyring. I think I read somewhere (how's that for a reliable
> source? <grin>) that Ford said not to keep the Speed Pass on the
> keyring due to potential problems.
Needed to check what "Speed Pass" is about, never heard.;)
> Do you have anything on your keyring that might possibly interfere?
This happens to me perhaps once/twice a year, but as it starts
as usual on the second try, didn't really cared about it. The
only thing curious about it, rethinking it always happened at the
same place. A few meters next to a large river.

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Tony Wesley - 27 Feb 2005 20:03 GMT
> In alt.autos.ford.focus Tony Wesley <tonywesley@gmail.com>:
> > I've always attributed it to interference caused by my Mobil Speed Pass
> > on my keyring.
> Needed to check what "Speed Pass" is about, never heard.;)
http://www.speedpass.com/
An RFID chip in a little wand that lets me buy gas by waving the wand
by a Speedpass reader in the gas pump. The purcahse is charged to my
Mobil credit card.
Michael Heiming - 27 Feb 2005 21:55 GMT
In alt.autos.ford.focus Tony Wesley <tonywesley@gmail.com>:
>> In alt.autos.ford.focus Tony Wesley <tonywesley@gmail.com>:
>> > I've always attributed it to interference caused by my Mobil Speed
[..]
>> Needed to check what "Speed Pass" is about, never heard.;)
> http://www.speedpass.com/
> An RFID chip in a little wand that lets me buy gas by waving the wand
> by a Speedpass reader in the gas pump. The purcahse is charged to my
> Mobil credit card.
Yep, found it asking google about the thing. Quite nice, but
found out, I'm much more comfortable paying directly, don't see
this way how often you need to fill it up unlike credit cards/etc
show you later exactly.;(

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a55Trucker - 10 Mar 2005 16:53 GMT
> In alt.autos.ford.focus Tony Wesley <tonywesley@gmail.com>:
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> cards/etc
> show you later exactly.;(
The dealer replaced the starter, yet the problem continues. I replaced
the starter relay. No luck either. I am now about to replace the
neutral safety switch. Does anyone know where I can find this thing?
Thanks for your help!
DAVID HARRIS - 30 Apr 2005 19:33 GMT
> Since new, my 2002 has a starting problem every couple of weeks. It can
> happen in freezing cold, or hot weather, or first thing in the morning or
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> on the way home.
> I would be grateful for any ideas or tales of similar problems!
It sounds like there are some issues in common with my posting:
I turned onto the on-ramp to get on the highway and the engine died
instantly. There was no coughing or hesitation, it just stopped.
I tried to restart it repeatedly, but didn't even get a click. It was
like trying to start with it in gear.
There were some other symptoms. ALL of the panel lights normally
come on when you first turn on the ignition, but most of them go off
after 1-2 second. In this case they all stayed on and the odometer
changed to "- - - - - " and nothing else seemed to work.
I pushed the car well off the road and started fiddling to try to start
it. It started immediately.
Since that was a dangerous situation, I took it in to the dealer. It
(of course ;>) didn't act up while in the shop, but they did the fuel pump
recall at no charge.
In the week since, it has stalled twice. I was inching forward to back into
a parking stall when it died last night. I tried several times to start it.
By the time I pushed it into the stall, it was back to normal again and
started repeatedly.
I was a bit dubious about the "fuel pump module" recall because of the
anomalies in the instrument panel displays.
I had an ignition switch problem about six months ago and ended up
having to replace the steering column. Since that time (whether or not
these are connected)
I have had several other "instrument cluster incidents" which did not result
in stalling. The glitches were associated with the radio suddenly going
dead. That hardly qualifies as "life threatening", but again the problem
soon "fixed itself". There was also an issue with the transponder keys
not working intermittently.
Any ideas as to what the common factor is in all of these symptoms?
PS If you have other RFID or transponder chips on your key ring,
they will BOTH be talking back at the time and can interfere with
each other. It seems that this would affect starting, but not stalling.
I wrapped my key in aluminum foil to disable it to see if that
duplicated the symptoms. It refused to start of course, but the
display remained normal. I should try wraping the key AFTER
starting just to see if they periodically interrogate it.
woof@nbnet.nb.ca - 05 May 2005 18:57 GMT
The group seems to have solved my 2002's starting problem: When I took all
the trinkets (some metal) off the keychain, the problem never recurred. I
presume they were interfering with the microchip in the key. (It is
disappointing that the big dealership never thought of this, despite several
visits)