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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Focus / June 2005Careful what you wish for ('05 Focus)
Note: Europe exclusive post follows. Having taken my '03 Focus TDCi Estate in for a service, I am driving around in an '05 Focus 5-door as a replacement for the day. So far, it has simply reinforced my impression that I made the best choice in the Golf class when I bought my car two years ago, and also that progress is not necessarily a good thing. Certainly from the outside it looks a little more upscale, although as a mini-Mondeo it has lost the feline appeal of the original front end, and the interior design may look higher quality to some due to its absolutely conservative layout, but to me the materials look no better and I anyway liked the "new edge" funkiness of the old Focus and its more organic curves. Certain ergonomic details are better now (finally you can aim the vents from the AC system to blow on the driver...) but others are a step back (the radio cluster is harder to read, the gauges have more glare in direct sunlight, the steering wheel feels horrible with its cheesy faux-aluminum inserts, the armrest is useless and obtrusive). What really annoys me is the industry-wide trend towards bloated cars. The new Focus is 14cm wider than the old one. This is substantial, and completely changes the character of the car. It may be a mini-Mondeo in concept, but I wouldn't be surprised if the two come out within cms of each other under the tape measure. Those 14cm are felt on narrow, twisty B-roads. Where I could toss my car into curves and place it perfectly on the road, with the new Focus I was all too aware of the shrubbery whizzing by a hair-breadth from my offside mirror. Sharing the B-roads with opposing traffic, especially trucks, is a bit dodgy now. Okay, it's not a Mercedes S-class, but it has lost its playful character due to its newly found corpulence. I'm sure the extra size pays dividends for back-seat passengers, although my subjective opinion is that you wouldn't really notice in a back-to-back comparison unless you measured. To me, it's just extra flab which has diluted the quality of the quintessential hot hatch. This steady evolution from cars the size of the old 205 GTi to the current Golf GTI is disturbing for the few like me who value a quick, compact back-road tool, but it's what the market wishes. Oh, and it didn't fit in my garage at home. The other immediate killer for me is the feel of the controls. Ford has followed the industry trend towards lighter and lighter controls. The clutch has no resistance and engages high off the floor, while the brakes are over-boosted and grabby. The shifter is lighter, but lacks the positive engagement of the old box and is placed quite low relative to the steering wheel. The Focus maintains its great steering, and ultimate grip is superb, but the rest of the control interfaces are a let-down and detract from the driving experience (for me). It's actually a pleasant change to not be yearning for the newest model. Can't wait to get my old faithful back from service. > This steady evolution from cars the size of the old 205 GTi to the current > Golf GTI is disturbing for the few like me who value a quick, compact > back-road tool, but it's what the market wishes. Fiesta? > Oh, and it didn't fit in my garage at home. Blimey, I thought the '03 model was pretty wide! It's the mirrors - I've scraped mine on the garage entrance, unfortunately I can't fold them back and then see to reverse properly! Interesting post, thanks!  SignatureChris Game "Deleted code has fewer bugs." -- Xibo >> This steady evolution from cars the size of the old 205 GTi to the >> current >> Golf GTI is disturbing for the few like me who value a quick, compact >> back-road tool, but it's what the market wishes. > > Fiesta? Funny the way the Fiesta has grown to the size (almost) of the old Escort/Focus, the Polo is now the size of the old Golf etc. The new ST is interesting, but it's sad how such a lot of motor still creates underwhelming performance. >> Oh, and it didn't fit in my garage at home. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Interesting post, thanks! Physically it would fit, but getting into my garage involves backing up while turning a sharp corner. It's threading the needle at the best with the '03 car, and I can barely squeeze my skinny a.s out of the car after I've parked. I would probably have to come out the back hatch with the new one! The mirrors on the new Focus, by the way, are crap. Small, and it's not possible to adjust them far enough outwards to properly eliminate the blind spot. Car manufacturers seem to think we want to see the side of the car in the mirrors for comfort... > Having taken my '03 Focus TDCi Estate in for a service, I am driving > around in an '05 Focus 5-door as a replacement for the day. So far, it > has simply reinforced my impression that I made the best choice in the > Golf class when I bought my car two years ago, and also that progress is > not necessarily a good thing. Thanks for the comments, Stephen, but I remind our North American readers that this is not the same car that we buy here. I'm not sure where he lives (is "ch" China?), but he evidently has the new European 2005 Focus, which is closer to the new Mazda3, whereas ours is just a slightly modified version of the 2000-2004 models. From everything I've read (including this post), I'm glad that Ford made this decision. >> Having taken my '03 Focus TDCi Estate in for a service, I am driving >> around in an '05 Focus 5-door as a replacement for the day. So far, it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > modified version of the 2000-2004 models. From everything I've read > (including this post), I'm glad that Ford made this decision. Hence the "Europe exclusive post" disclaimer at the start. :-) CH is Switzerland. The size itself would certainly not be a problem anywhere in North America, even on the twistiest roads. It's a shame the newer North Amercian cars have also lost their edgy styling, but this is what most consumers want. > CH is Switzerland. Can't seem to wake up this morning. If I had I would have noticed that the University of Bern is not in China :<) >Thanks for the comments, Stephen, but I remind our North American readers >that this is not the same car that we buy here. I'm not sure where he lives >(is "ch" China?), but he evidently has the new European 2005 Focus, which is >closer to the new Mazda3, whereas ours is just a slightly modified version >of the 2000-2004 models. From everything I've read (including this post), >I'm glad that Ford made this decision. .ch is Switzerland. BTW, the new Focus is wider but it's all a matter of getting used to it. I own one for a month now and I had no problem with it being wider than my old Opel Astra. -Nick >(is "ch" China?), .ch = Confederation Helvetica (Switzerland) .cn = China Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. > Note: Europe exclusive post follows. > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > It's actually a pleasant change to not be yearning for the newest model. > Can't wait to get my old faithful back from service. Did you read my comments on Focus II in our local forum pages??? :)) You almost told in english what I have been saying in turkish for the last three months. :)) I am sharing your thoughts and opinions. I have to add that the interior finish of Focus II is not better than the previous model if not worse. I want to copy and paste your comments to our local forum pages if you allow me to do so. > Did you read my comments on Focus II in our local forum pages??? :)) > You almost told in english what I have been saying in turkish for the last > three months. :)) What were saying in Turkish? Ahmet '01 Focus Wagon Turkey >> Did you read my comments on Focus II in our local forum pages??? :)) >> You almost told in english what I have been saying in turkish for the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Turkey If you want you can sign up with our forums and read and contribute on this and other simlar topics. www.focusum.com > Did you read my comments on Focus II in our local forum pages??? :)) > You almost told in english what I have been saying in turkish for the last [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I want to copy and paste your comments to our local forum pages if you > allow me to do so. Feel free to copy my comments if you like. cheers Stephen > Having taken my '03 Focus TDCi Estate in for a service, I am driving > around in an '05 Focus 5-door as a replacement for the day. Hi Stephen. Was the '05 you got for the day a TDCi, and if so what did you think of it compared to your own? Gary. >> Having taken my '03 Focus TDCi Estate in for a service, I am driving >> around in an '05 Focus 5-door as a replacement for the day. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Was the '05 you got for the day a TDCi, and if so what did you think of it > compared to your own? Unfortunately it was a 1600 petrol, or "The Lame Duck" as my girlfriend called it after a day with it. It was nasty. Loud, gutless, and slow. As soon as I got back in my TDCi I felt like I was in a rocketship, and it's not exactly a road-burner. On the motorway, our TDCi with bike racks on the roof is quieter than the new Focus with the 1600, which is geared very short. I'm sure if you really flogged it and held it to redline in each gear you would match the performance of the TDCi... maybe. The tax incentives would have to be huge to make me buy that combination. >>> Having taken my '03 Focus TDCi Estate in for a service, I am driving >>> around in an '05 Focus 5-door as a replacement for the day. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >gear you would match the performance of the TDCi... maybe. The tax >incentives would have to be huge to make me buy that combination. Facts (from the ford.co.uk website): 1.6 Duratec Petrol: 100 PS power, 150 Nm torque, 0-62 mph in 11.9 secs (5-door) 1.6 Duratec Ti-VCT Petrol: 115 PS power, 155 Nm torque, 0-62 mph in 10.8 secs (5-door) 1.6 Duratorq TDCi Diesel Euro IV: 90 PS power, 215 Nm torque, 0-62 mph in 12.9 secs (5-door estate) 1.6 Duratorq TDCi Diesel Euro III: 109 PS power, 240 Nm torque, 0-62 mph in 11.1 secs (5-door estate) 1.8 Duratorq TDCi Diesel: 115 PS power, 280 Nm torque, 0-62 mph in 10.9 secs (5-door estate) Assuming you're comparing the 1.6 Petrol with the 1.6 Diesel (otherwise the comparison is irrelevant) the Ti-VCT is at least as fast as the 1.6 Diesel, not to say faster. In fact the Ti-VCT can be even compared with the 1.8 Diesel. The only explanation is that your replacement car was one with the old 100 PS 1.6 engine. The fact that it's geared very short is actually one of the features I like very much about the new Focus, but I guess that's a matter of personal taste. -Nick > Assuming you're comparing the 1.6 Petrol with the 1.6 Diesel > (otherwise the comparison is irrelevant) the Ti-VCT is at least as [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -Nick On paper, running it through the gears, it's true it will keep up with the 1.8 diesel. In the real world, the wall of torque of the 1.8 leaves even the newest 1.6 for dead. The in-gear acceleration figures are key for me, not what it will do in a standing start sprint. Put your foot down in the 1.8 TDCi in 5th on the motorway, and it moves out in an impressive fashion. Do that in the 1.6 and you're dead, even though it is spinning at 3500 rpm or more at 120kph. Even a downshift to 4th didn't help much. Perhaps it was the 100ps, but I actually found the "old" 1.6 Zetec SE engine quite nice. Don't get me wrong, I loved my old short-geared Corolla GT-S and I wind my MX-5 out to the redline on every shift. But... the Corolla could actually move in 5th gear with some authority if needed, and the MX-5 is meant for spirited driving and not much else. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age (37) but I see also the value of a car which can quietly and quickly get on with its business without me having to behave like a hooligan just to keep ahead of traffic. I stand by my (and my girlfriend's) observation: the 1.6 was a dog in real-world driving. Stephen >On paper, running it through the gears, it's true it will keep up with the >1.8 diesel. In the real world, the wall of torque of the 1.8 leaves even [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >or more at 120kph. Even a downshift to 4th didn't help much. Perhaps it was >the 100ps, but I actually found the "old" 1.6 Zetec SE engine quite nice. Well, we all know diesel engines are superior where torque is an issue (especially in low revs). Diesel cars have their advantages and their disadvantages and choosing between the two is a matter of many factors. Anyway, you're comparing a 1.6 petrol engine -that probably hadn't even reached its full potential- with a 1.8 diesel engine. It'd be interesting to compare the in-gear accelerations, although I can't seem to find the ones for the TDCi (diesel engines are prohibited in Athens, so there is not much material I can find). >Don't get me wrong, I loved my old short-geared Corolla GT-S and I wind my >MX-5 out to the redline on every shift. But... the Corolla could actually [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I stand by my (and my girlfriend's) observation: the 1.6 was a dog in >real-world driving. All 1.6 petrol cars are dogs then. And forgive me, but real-world driving is not speeding above 120 kph with 5th gear in highways (it's illegal anyway), it's also driving every day in a traffic jammed city like Athens. -Nick > Anyway, you're comparing a 1.6 petrol engine -that probably hadn't > even reached its full potential- with a 1.8 diesel engine. It had 12'000 km on the clock. > It'd be > interesting to compare the in-gear accelerations, although I can't > seem to find the ones for the TDCi (diesel engines are prohibited in > Athens, so there is not much material I can find). 80 - 120kph in fifth takes about 11 seconds in the TDCi, and about 17 seconds in the 1.6, if I remember the last AutoBild test correctly. The same relative difference holds for 50 - 80 in lower gears. That's serious when you are pulling out to pass. > All 1.6 petrol cars are dogs then. > And forgive me, but real-world driving is not speeding above 120 kph > with 5th gear in highways (it's illegal anyway) It is in Italy, Switzerland, France, Germany, UK etc. etc. > it's also driving > every day in a traffic jammed city like Athens. Agreed, and it is also passing trucks on a narrow two-lane uphill... Stephen [snip] >80 - 120kph in fifth takes about 11 seconds in the TDCi, and about 17 >seconds in the 1.6, if I remember the last AutoBild test correctly. The >same relative difference holds for 50 - 80 in lower gears. That's serious >when you are pulling out to pass. Noone would go for 80-120 with 5th gear on a petrol car :-) You have to compare relevant things. >> All 1.6 petrol cars are dogs then. >> And forgive me, but real-world driving is not speeding above 120 kph [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Agreed, and it is also passing trucks on a narrow two-lane uphill... I think I've done that once in 13 years. Which proves that things like that are purely subjective. -Nick The in-gear acceleration times for the 5D New Focus Ti-VCT are as follows: 3rd gear 30-50 4.0 50-80 5.8 80-110 6.4 4th gear 40-60 5.6 80-110 8.0 120-140 7.0 5th gear 50-70 7.1 80-110 11.8 120-140 10.4 and that makes it faster than the New Opel Astra 1.6, the Golf 1.6 Fsi and as fast as the C4 1.6. -Nick >What really annoys me is the industry-wide trend towards bloated cars. The >new Focus is 14cm wider than the old one. This is substantial, and ... >Oh, and it didn't fit in my garage at home. Out of curiosity, just how big do they make garages in Switzerland? Obviously we in NA are just used to large vehicles (the Focus is considered to a small or compact car). Even the smallest of garages in Canada can accommodate a NA Focus and most any other car. Min. garage door size is 6'x7' high (1.8m X 2.1m) ie a double wide man door although that is extremely rare and the more typical is an 8' or 9' wide x 7' high door and single garages are 10'-16' wide. A lot of people have 9'x8' high doors for their SUVS and 3/4 ton pickups, and 2 and 3 car garages are not uncommon. <snip> > A lot of people have 9'x8' high doors for their SUVS and 3/4 ton > pickups, and 2 and 3 car garages are not uncommon. In Europe, people sometimes *live* in that amount of space! :-) Chris SignaturePosted using XanaNews version 1.17.4.1 Remove prejudice to reply >> A lot of people have 9'x8' high doors for their SUVS and 3/4 ton >> pickups, and 2 and 3 car garages are not uncommon. > > In Europe, people sometimes *live* in that amount of space! :-) Sheer Luxury! When I were a lad... SignatureChris Game "If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it." -- Albert Einstein [] >> In Europe, people sometimes *live* in that amount of space! :-) > >Sheer Luxury! When I were a lad... Nice one Chris - LOL. I wonder how many non English got that one! SignatureDonald Gray Putting ODCOMBE on the Global Village Map! www.odcombe.demon.co.uk You do not have to email me, but if you wish to... Please remove the SafetyPin from my email address first Thanks > [] >>> In Europe, people sometimes *live* in that amount of space! :-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > -- ============= Well I'm in Canada and I lived in a shoe box <VBG> Geoff.> >Well I'm in Canada and I lived in a shoe box <VBG> Next you will be telling us that you cut down trees wear high heels, suspenders and a bra <G> And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you. SignatureAlan mailto:news2me_a_2003@amacleod.clara.co.uk >>Well I'm in Canada and I lived in a shoe box <VBG> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't > believe you. === And I walked uphill both ways when going to and coming from school. Geoff. > And I walked uphill both ways when going to and coming from school. You kids had it soft. We had to climb mountains to do school. Barefoot, in the snow. And we liked it. >> And I walked uphill both ways when going to and coming from school. > >You kids had it soft. We had to climb mountains to do school. >Barefoot, in the snow. > >And we liked it. Was that before or after your 4 hours of chores you had to do every morning? And the 4 hours of chores you did before hitting the floor of the barn for some zzzzzz. >>What really annoys me is the industry-wide trend towards bloated cars. >>The [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > A lot of people have 9'x8' high doors for their SUVS and 3/4 ton pickups, > and 2 and 3 car garages are not uncommon. I'd have to measure it to be sure, but the clearance on either side of the mirrors is a few inches when backing past the concrete pillars (it's an underground garage). Once past the pillars, there is a little more wiggle room to get out of the car. Our friends have to fold the mirrors on their Volvo V70 to park reliably. I know what you mean about NA garages. My parents live in a modest 1960s split-level near Toronto, and the garage accomodated (barely) a 1974 Plymouth Gran Fury coupe. My father's Passat looks somewhat lost in it now, and my old '78 Fiesta looked like it would have fit sideways. >>>What really annoys me is the industry-wide trend towards bloated cars. >>>The [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >Plymouth Gran Fury coupe. My father's Passat looks somewhat lost in it now, >and my old '78 Fiesta looked like it would have fit sideways. Well then, the Smart Car definitely could. Those things are remarkably small.... |
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