C-max review criticism spreads

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per - 21 Apr 2004 20:30 GMT

ARD TV in Germany has now interviewed Robert Collin who wrote the first
critical article about the C-max excessive sliding, even with electronic
slide control. They state that Robert Collin has one of the sharpest pens in
Europe and they are interested to see what Ford will make of it when it
reaches Germany.
See a web-tv with a swedish presentation, containing movies from excessive
sliding just from letting the gas pedal up a in the beginning of the curve,
and barely managing to control the return slides following.
Find the web-tv movie at:
http://wwwb.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,466418,00.html
press "web-tv" and chose a relevant viewer and connection speed.
/per

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Michael Heiming - 21 Apr 2004 22:43 GMT

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> ARD TV in Germany has now interviewed Robert Collin who wrote the first
> critical article about the C-max excessive sliding, even with electronic
> slide control. They state that Robert Collin has one of the sharpest pens in

Just a matter of physics, the C-max has a much higher center of
gravity, then a usual car, like many vans or even more off-road
cars. You can't expect a roadholding like a race car, with those
cars. Did felt uncomfortable with my Focus at higher speeds on
the motorway in curves. Put a "Sachs performance" kit in the
chassis, roadholding has improved dramatically. It's 35 mm lowered
and perhaps a bit hard on bad roads, but advantages outweigh (for
me) disadvantages you have to live with.

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Michael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)

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per - 22 Apr 2004 06:47 GMT

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> and perhaps a bit hard on bad roads, but advantages outweigh (for
> me) disadvantages you have to live with.

Yes, but there are lots of mini suv's that don't have such extreme
behaviour, Renault Scenic eg.
/per

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Michael Heiming - 22 Apr 2004 07:03 GMT

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> "Michael Heiming" <michael+USENET@www.heiming.de> wrote in
> > > ARD TV in Germany has now interviewed Robert Collin who wrote the first
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> > gravity, then a usual car, like many vans or even more off-road
> > cars. You can't expect a roadholding like a race car, with those

[..]

> Yes, but there are lots of mini suv's that don't have such extreme
> behaviour, Renault Scenic eg.

The questions is, if those have been tested in such a way?
Couldn't find the stream, from your URL, do you have a direct
link?

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Michael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)

Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
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per - 22 Apr 2004 18:09 GMT

> Couldn't find the stream, from your URL, do you have a direct
> link?

No, a direct link does not work, maybe it's some Java code that handles it.
Just find the following text on the page and left click on it:

webb-tv H?r sladdar
Ford Focus C-Max
okontrollerat

/per

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Stephen F. - 22 Apr 2004 07:35 GMT

> ARD TV in Germany has now interviewed Robert Collin who wrote the first
> critical article about the C-max excessive sliding, even with electronic
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> press "web-tv" and chose a relevant viewer and connection speed.
> /per

Ahh.... good objective journalism, as usual. Where is the control case?
Where is the VW Touran driven into the corner in the same fashion? What
exactly did he expect? He came into the corner hotter than Petter Solberg
on a bumpy, rutted, snow-covered road. I thought it actually did quite
well. I've driven BWWs and Mazdas with DSC through similar conditions, and
even in a low CofG car you can get it pretty out of shape, as Mr. Newton put
some limits on what is achievable.

Stephen

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Janne A - 03 May 2004 13:43 GMT

> Ahh.... good objective journalism, as usual. Where is the control case?
> Where is the VW Touran driven into the corner in the same fashion? What
> exactly did he expect?

Did he lift the throttle? Did he apply hand brake? We don't know. All
we have is the opinion of Mr. Collin, who has never been known for
impartial and objective journalism. He doesn't even write to car
magazine, Aftonbladet is a yellow paper. I haven't read any claims
about C-MAX's dangerous nature in any Swedish or Finnish car magazine
and I'm sure they have all tested the car again after reading Collin's
first reports.

I have a C-MAX (without ESP) and after reading Collin's first story I
went out to try how it handles on an icy road when provoked by lifting
the throttle in the middle of a curve. The result: at speeds where my
previous car (Opel Vectra -99) would have lost its rear end grip, the
C-MAX remained stable. I didn't notice any tendency towards
dangerously strong oversteering during last winter, not on icy, snowy
and windy small roads or on motorways.

Collin's story is also a bit inconsistent. First he reports C-MAX's
dangerous oversteering. Then he writes a column about how he couldn't
shake an old taxi-Volvo off his tail on a slippery road because of
C-MAX's heavy understeering. The comes the story about Ford's test
drivers coming to Sweden to test the car with him. Surprise, surprise:
neither the test drivers nor Collin could find anything wrong with
C-MAX on a winter test track. So Collin takes the car on a normal road
(I guess this is where the videos are from) where the test drivers are
not allowed to test, and once again the C-MAX is dangerous.
Explanation: the test track was too smooth.

The latest addition is the case of Hans, 77 years old. Hans had
reached for an apple on the co-driver's seat, his C-MAX went off the
tarmac on a motor way and the correction attempt resulted in a few
spins between the railings. Aftonbladet's conclusion: a typical
example of how C-MAX's dangerously designed chassis behaves. Yeah,
sure.

I'm not concerned about my family's safety until a see confirmations
about C-MAX's dangerous nature from other journalists.

Regards,

Janne

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c-max - 16 May 2004 18:45 GMT

I purchased here in Majorca a C-max Ghia 2.0 6 speed and apart from the
various problems I am still pleased with the car. I am at present waiting
for a recall to my dealer here the more common problem is semi cutting out
and the fuel level indicator which insisits we are empty on filling the
tank. Also I have already had the computer replaced after 3 days of
delivery my car used to do 700km per full tank now I only get 500 kms. I
also have a squealy rear wheel which is only there when crawling in
traffic. My brother in law purchased exactly the same car but in February
and he has identical problems. The solution here we have been told is the
computer fault and possible change of a module . Also the electric
handbrake is a pain at times especially on a hill start, this doesn't go
down very well being a "lady driver". Have you suffered with any problems
like this would love to here from anyone out there.!!!

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Shooting Star - 23 Apr 2004 19:39 GMT

I saw that movie and wondered how the "old" focus would handle under the
same circumstances.

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