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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Focus / July 2004Just found this great oil!
I heard about this stuff for a little while but had that mental block about changing oil every 3,000 miles.Heres the link to the website http://64.17.132.131/ or go to synfullube.com The site was was ok but the product is incredible. I saw results right off the bat so I'm going to put all of their products in my truck. Just thought everyone out there would want to at least check this stuff out. Yawn. Another "miracle" oil scam. > I heard about this stuff for a little while but had that mental block about > changing oil every 3,000 miles.Heres the link to the website > http://64.17.132.131/ or go to synfullube.com ... 7,500 miles - Bah! Read about 2 years - 18,000 miles oil change intervals here: http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/EUXXENPVLMOMobilSHCFormulaLD_0W-30.asp /per > I heard about this stuff for a little while but had that mental block about > changing oil every 3,000 miles.Heres the link to the website > http://64.17.132.131/ or go to synfullube.com The site was was ok but the > product is incredible. I saw results right off the bat so I'm going to put all > of their products in my truck. Just thought everyone out there would want to at > least check this stuff out. > 7,500 miles - Bah! > Read about 2 years - 18,000 miles oil change intervals here: Don't do it. The enemy is dirt. Synthetic oil gets just as dirty as regular oil. The longest one should go is maybe 6000 miles (10000km). >> 7,500 miles - Bah! >> Read about 2 years - 18,000 miles oil change intervals here: > >Don't do it. The enemy is dirt. Synthetic oil gets just as dirty as regular >oil. Doesn't the Focus have an oil filter?  SignatureAlan mailto:news2me_a_2003@amacleod.clara.co.uk > Doesn't the Focus have an oil filter? Of course it does, but filters only remove particles down to a certain size. If they removed smaller ones, they couldn't pass oil. The problem is not so much the abrasive action of particles, as the contaminants they contain. What most people don't realize is just how extreme the environment is inside an automobile engine, and how violent the life of engine oil really is. That's why it needs to be changed so often (and why things like the lubricant inside a manual transmission or differential need changing far less, if at all.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message In alt.autos.ford.focus Dave Gower <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> suggested: >> Doesn't the Focus have an oil filter? > Of course it does, but filters only remove particles down to a certain size. > If they removed smaller ones, they couldn't pass oil. The problem is not so > much the abrasive action of particles, as the contaminants they contain. > What most people don't realize is just how extreme the environment is inside > an automobile engine, and how violent the life of engine oil really is. > That's why it needs to be changed so often (and why things like the [..] With normal usage, I simply stick with the Ford recommended change interval (oil + filter), once a year or every 20.000 km whatever comes first. (at least over here) Never any problems, my prior Ford (Diesel) had an recommended interval (oil + filter) of 10.000 km or once a year, times I exchanged it with my Focus, the engine was still running like new, after >230.000 km.;) Wouldn't trust those magic extra filters, that should run your oil for ages, pur FUD. Anyway, from driving Ford since decades, the cars do usually fall apart from rust long before any real problem with the engine. SignatureMichael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94) mail: echo zvpunry@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/' > With normal usage, I simply stick with the Ford recommended > change interval (oil + filter), once a year or every 20.000 km > whatever comes first. (at least over here) 20,000 km is way too long. I understand that these have been set by commercial, rather than engineering, considerations. About 20 years ago the North American manufacturers started making the same mistake, competing for long service intervals. When engines started to fail prematurely they came to their senses and stopped that nonsense. Wonder how long it will take in Europe? >> With normal usage, I simply stick with the Ford recommended >> change interval (oil + filter), once a year or every 20.000 km >> whatever comes first. (at least over here) > >20,000 km is way too long. I understand that these have been set by >commercial, rather than engineering, considerations. What a load of Rot The main reason oil change intervals have increased is due to the ability of engine manufacturers to build to tighter spec/tolerances. and the improvements in oil technologies How would increasing oil change intervals be of commercial interest to the Manufacturers? Most car makers give at least a 3 year/100k warranty My last Focus went back to the lease company after 3 years and 90k miles of hard driving, running as well if not better than when it was new with all servicing done at the recommended 12.5k mile intervals. The only people to benefit from shorter oil change intervals are the people who sell oil and the garages who charge rediculous prices to do services. >About 20 years ago the North American manufacturers started making the same >mistake, competing for long service intervals. When engines started to fail >prematurely they came to their senses and stopped that nonsense. Wonder how >long it will take in Europe? Where does all this dirt come from? if filters are changed regularly oil/air then dirt ingress is minimal. Oil turns dark because of combustion products not because of dirt in the oil. The main reason for oil been changed is because its lubrication properties tend to breakdown over time and as oil companies improve this the ability for longer change intervals increases. Regards Andy Lee SignatureIt matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose. >...How would > increasing oil change intervals be of commercial interest to the > Manufacturers? Most car makers give at least a 3 year/100k warranty It makes a good selling point. And the consequences don't come home until after the warranty expires. And if you check these extended service blurbs, either from the car manufacturer or oil company you'll see lots of caveats i.e. not stop-and-go driving, not in extreme climates, avoiding dusty areas etc. Like I said, we've been through it on this side of the pond. And yes, engines and oils have improved, but don't take that too far. >Like I said, we've been through it on this side of the pond. And yes, >engines and oils have improved, but don't take that too far. Longer oil change intervals often come with very specific oil requirements (as opposed to just generic API or ACEA ratings). Given the tendency of people and mechanics (even dealer mechanics) in North America to not pay attention to the oil requirements (or second guess what is specified in the manual), manufacturers may be hesitant to recommend longer oil change intervals, since the very specific oil requirements may be ignored in too many cases, resulting in problems. Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. >>Like I said, we've been through it on this side of the pond. And yes, >>engines and oils have improved, but don't take that too far. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >intervals, since the very specific oil requirements may be ignored in >too many cases, resulting in problems. Well if people are too stupid to follow the service recommendations then they deserve all the problems they get. Ford specify a certain oil for the Forcus for various reason including fuel economy/emmissions as well as engine longevity Again if people choose to ignore the manual then there should be no comeback on the manufacturer. >>...How would >> increasing oil change intervals be of commercial interest to the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >i.e. not stop-and-go driving, not in extreme climates, avoiding dusty areas >etc. So there are caveats I wouldn't expect there not to be! most people know that stop start motoring causes premature wear that's why the service intervals say X miles or X months to cover such eventualities Same with dusty conditions. The fact is most people do average miles with a mixture of conditions and journey lengths. >Like I said, we've been through it on this side of the pond. And yes, >engines and oils have improved, but don't take that too far. Well if Ford etc feel some much less confident about extended service intervals in the States why institute them here in Europe I'm pretty sure the same issues will arise over here as in the US. IIRC the Japanese wre the first in Europe to increase the service intervals with all the other manufacturers playing catchup. One thing about Jap cars is the engines generally do go on forever. >> With normal usage, I simply stick with the Ford recommended >> change interval (oil + filter), once a year or every 20.000 km >> whatever comes first. (at least over here) > > 20,000 km is way too long. I understand that these have been set by > commercial, rather than engineering, considerations. Engine reliability is a far better commercial thing than long service intervals. It's OK to do oil change as recommended! SignatureKjell Harnesk, Sweden -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message In alt.autos.ford.focus Dave Gower <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> suggested: >> With normal usage, I simply stick with the Ford recommended >> change interval (oil + filter), once a year or every 20.000 km >> whatever comes first. (at least over here) > 20,000 km is way too long. I understand that these have been set by > commercial, rather than engineering, considerations. Unsure about that, do you have any data (URL) to back up this statement? Anyway, the trick behind it is probably, that most if not all people over here don't drive that much a year with their petrol car, they'd have a diesel if the would and those have AFAIK shorter oil change intervals. The few that might drive that much with a petrol car in a year, probably mostly drive long trips on some highway, which are far less "stress" for the whole car. Every cold start is the worst that can happen to an engine, AFAIR the manual says that a shorter oil change is recommended, if you use your car mainly for very short distances. [..] SignatureMichael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94) mail: echo zvpunry@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/' > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > petrol car, they'd have a diesel if the would and those have > AFAIK shorter oil change intervals. Not really, the link from Mobil Oil I provided earlier in this thread stated: Up to 18,000 miles/30,000 kilometres in gasoline engine cars Up to 30,000 miles/50,000 kilometres in diesel engine cars /per -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message In alt.autos.ford.focus per <nospam@nospam.com> suggested: > "Michael Heiming" <michael+USENET@www.heiming.de> wrote in [..] >> petrol car, they'd have a diesel if the would and those have >> AFAIK shorter oil change intervals. > Not really, the link from Mobil Oil I provided earlier in this thread > stated: Yep, but you left out the important information above: "Fully synthetic formulation provides extended oil drain capability in VW-Audi cars using the long service schedule (WIV)" ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Up to 18,000 miles/30,000 kilometres in gasoline engine cars > Up to 30,000 miles/50,000 kilometres in diesel engine cars Looks like you used the wrong ng? SignatureMichael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94) mail: echo zvpunry@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/' > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Looks like you used the wrong ng? > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Looks like you used the wrong ng? My first entry was a response to the original posting in this thread, containing eg: "mental block about changing oil every 3,000 miles" and also the obvious Amsoil dealer spamming, them too probably in the wrong ng! /per >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >petrol car, they'd have a diesel if the would and those have >AFAIK shorter oil change intervals. hi Micheal That used to be true. My current Focus TDCi actually has the same Service interval as the Petrol variants i.e. 12.5k miles at least here in the UK. >The few that might drive that much with a petrol car in a year, >probably mostly drive long trips on some highway, which are far >less "stress" for the whole car. Every cold start is the worst >that can happen to an engine, AFAIR the manual says that a >shorter oil change is recommended, if you use your car mainly for >very short distances. Agreed short journeys are far more damaging on the engine. I think this is why Ford say 12.5k miles or every 12 months I know of a couple of Cars in my Family that only do around 1k miles per year and I imagine the engine wear is probably greater than on my diesel >[..] I find it amazing that you are all talking in terms of 10,000 km plus where here in Canada the change interval is 5,000 km under severe conditions (short trips, around town) and 10,000 km as a maximium. Very strange since it is the same 2 liter, gas engine that was sold in Europe in 2003. Maybe the oil producers have better connections with Ford here in Canada. BTW, does anyone know if there is any real advantage to using the 5w20 oil that is called for rather than 10w30? Certainly it might help mileage, but what about protection? I live near Vancouver where it never really gets cold. Lately it has been over 30 celsius quite a bit. Seems that 10w30 would be a better idea to me. Also, about the only place I find the 5w20 is at Ford, and it is twice the price of discounted 10w30. It adds up quick when you need to change it every 5,000 km. >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>Hash: SHA1 [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >>[..] > BTW, does anyone know if there is any real advantage to using > the 5w20 oil that is called for rather than 10w30? 5w20 is definitely a winter oil, 10w30 for summer. 5w30 (available at most retail locations) is an all-season oil, covering both ends of the spectrum. In places like Vancouver, where it never gets really cold or hot, that will do perfectly. Most of the high-volume brands are quite adequate to protect a car used in normal driving. >...do you have any data (URL) to back up this statement? There's lots and I really haven't the inclination to go on a search now. But if you're interested, I suggest you start with a Google Usenet search. The best place is non-brand-specific technical newsgroups. Rec.autos.tech has some really impressive people participating in it, and they have had some excellent threads on this topic in the past few years. I'm not an automotive professional, and that's where I go to meet my gurus. There are of course many websites, but a danger here is that many have commercial or other agendas. There's lots of money to be made in automotive maintenance. Cheers -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message In alt.autos.ford.focus Dave Gower <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> suggested: >>...do you have any data (URL) to back up this statement? > There's lots and I really haven't the inclination to go on a search now. But In short, you don't. > if you're interested, I suggest you start with a Google Usenet search. The Why? Never had any problems with the Ford recommended intervals. There's not a single reason for me to change anything about it. > best place is non-brand-specific technical newsgroups. Rec.autos.tech has > some really impressive people participating in it, and they have had some > excellent threads on this topic in the past few years. I'm not an automotive > professional, and that's where I go to meet my gurus. The fun thing about it, I have been an automotive professional mechanic long ago, can't remember a single problem due to following the vendor recommend intervals. > There are of course many websites, but a danger here is that many have > commercial or other agendas. There's lots of money to be made in automotive > maintenance. Yep, by changing oil more often then it is really needed. As stated before in this thread: Driving Ford since decades, the cars do usually fall apart from rust long before any real problem with the engine. SignatureMichael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94) mail: echo zvpunry@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/' > In short, you don't. Don't accuse someone unless you have proof. This is a huge topic and takes quite a bit of work to sort through the material available. I have a life. > > if you're interested, I suggest you start with a Google Usenet search. The > > Why? Because you asked me for references. If you don't want an answer, don't ask. > The fun thing about it, I have been an automotive professional > mechanic long ago, can't remember a single problem due to > following the vendor recommend intervals. I presume from the extension on your email that you worked in europe. If you read my post with attention, you would have seen that I said that the problems with long oil change intervals were in North America two decades or so ago, so of course you would not have experienced them. I think that Europeans today will learn differently. > Yep, by changing oil more often then it is really needed. > Driving Ford since decades, the cars do usually fall apart from > rust long before any real problem with the engine. No argument with either of these statements. Indeed, there is some discussion here in North America that current manufacturer's recommendations (3000 miles or 5000km) are too short, except in heavy-duty situations. >>In short, you don't. > > Don't accuse someone unless you have proof. Of which, you have shown us none. > This is a huge topic and takes > quite a bit of work to sort through the material available. I have a life. If you can't take the time to back up what you post, then maybe you should live your life, and not make a fool of yourself here? Signaturee-mail address fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my address in order to reply. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message In alt.autos.ford.focus Dave Gower <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> suggested: >> In short, you don't. > Don't accuse someone unless you have proof. This is a huge topic and takes > quite a bit of work to sort through the material available. I have a life. LOL...You claimed something strange about oil change interval, asked for an URL to backup your statement, you don't have any which seems to be obvious since you didn't post any and now I accuse you? SignatureMichael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94) mail: echo zvpunry@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/' >>if you're interested, I suggest you start with a Google Usenet search. The > > Why? Never had any problems with the Ford recommended intervals. > There's not a single reason for me to change anything about it. Not to mention, you have to be VERY worried if someone is citing usenet as their "authoritative source." Where's the actual scientific data? I could say the sky is green with pink polka-dots. Just because I post it on usenet and someone could cite it through a google search doesn't mean it's true. Signaturee-mail address fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my address in order to reply. > Not to mention, you have to be VERY worried if someone is citing usenet > as their "authoritative source." Where's the actual scientific data? Please read my posts more carefully before replying so foolishly. If you followed my recommendation you would find what I have found - that there are some people on certain newsgroups who do know their material very well. This can be determined by following their posts over a number of threads on topics with which one is familiar. Usenet is not a "source" of anything - individual posters are. Sheesh. >>Not to mention, you have to be VERY worried if someone is citing usenet >>as their "authoritative source." Where's the actual scientific data? > > Please read my posts more carefully before replying so foolishly. I would ask the same of you. > If you > followed my recommendation you would find what I have found - ... that you are making statements and yet are always "too busy" to back them up with so much as a URL? > that there are > some people on certain newsgroups who do know their material very well. This > can be determined by following their posts over a number of threads on > topics with which one is familiar. Oh, I research who I correspond with on usenet. You should probably stick to your world war II history and political discussions. > Usenet is not a "source" of anything - So what you're saying is, when you posted this: http://tinyurl.com/6onqh You were wrong? Signaturee-mail address fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my address in order to reply. >About 20 years ago the North American manufacturers started making the same >mistake, competing for long service intervals I'm sure in the last 20 years there have been at least some major improvements in oil technology or are the oil companies lying in their advertising? SignatureAlan mailto:news2me_a_2003@amacleod.clara.co.uk > I'm sure in the last 20 years there have been at least some major > improvements in oil technology or are the oil companies lying in their > advertising? They have. But the oil still gets dirty, no matter how its chemistry is altered. See link below for some empirical data on this subject. http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html > 7,500 miles - Bah! > Read about 2 years - 18,000 miles oil change intervals here: http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/EUXXENPVLMOMobilSHCFormulaLD_0W-30.asp > /per > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to at > > least check this stuff out.
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