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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Focus / September 2004Ford dealer used normal engine oil on my ZX3
They (Ford dealer service center) had $26.95 oil change coupon. I asked whether they use Synthetic blend since that is what is specified in my manual. They said "Yeah, I think you mean 5W 20, right? We use whatever is specified by the factory". So I naively believed they would use synthetic blend. The reasons I believed so were (1) Some other local Ford dealers had $25~$30 oil change and they also said they use synthetic blend. (2) 5W20 weight was not popular on the shelf of Schucks auto parts shop and I saw synthetic one only in one occasion, so I again naively thought that 5W20 usually comes in either synthetic blend or synthetic. After the service, I noticed that they did not specifiy the oil type on the receipt, so asked and found that they used normal 5W20. In a sense they lied to me when they said they would use the factory specified oil type. The service advisor would not redo or refund me. Any suggestion to resolve this wisely? This is a Ford dealer, so I hope I have many options. Thank you in advance!  Signaturedlkim I believe the Motorcraft 5w 20 is a synthetic, maybe not FULL synthetic though. It is what is factory filled and probably what they used. It's common to not specify exactly what is used if it comes from a bulk tank. Bulk oil usually gets treated as shop supplies similar to dispensable items like washer fluid and silicon sealant. Now if you were to use something like Mobile 1 where they would have to go through the parts counter for the oil it would (should) have been itemized on the workorder. > They (Ford dealer service center) had $26.95 oil change coupon. > I asked whether they use Synthetic blend since that is what is [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Thank you in advance! > I believe the Motorcraft 5w 20 is a synthetic, maybe not FULL synthetic > though. It is what is factory filled and probably what they used. It's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Mobile 1 where they would have to go through the parts counter for the oil > it would (should) have been itemized on the workorder. Well, they put Castrol oil change reminder sticker on my windshield, and also told me that synthetic blend would cost me a lot more. So it was not synthetic blend... Thank you, Dlkim >They (Ford dealer service center) had $26.95 oil change coupon. >I asked whether they use Synthetic blend since that is what is [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >redo or refund me. Any suggestion to resolve this wisely? This >is a Ford dealer, so I hope I have many options. You would THINK that the dealer would put in factory recommended oil wouldn't you? I asked my dealer why they marked down 5w30 oil on the receipt instead of 5w20. They said it doesn't matter what they write down, the only use factory approved oil and that they used 5w20. Another time I inquired and was told that using any kind of synthetic oil would invalidate the warranty! How the F*** can the factory recommend the 5w20 synthetic blend if that was possible? Another time I specifically demanded 5w20 synthetic blend oil and got it but then they added a surcharge for the extra cost. The bottom line is - unless you DEMAND the factory recommended 5w20 synthetic blend oil, you are going to get the shaft! This is ironic considering that if you don't follow the "factory recommended" intervals you are invalidating your warranty! SIDE BAR - I remember seeing a web site that was set up by someone who designed oils for a living. He mentioned that today's synthetics could actually last 100,000 miles with filter changes and top ups. He suggested that the reason vehicle manufactures keep with the old intervals is that they are in cahoots with the oil manufacturers. Even today's non-synthetic oils could last longer than the recommended intervals. In reality, unless you live in a very dusty or moisture condensing environment you shouldn't need to stay with those intervals. >SIDE BAR - I remember seeing a web site that was set up by someone who >designed oils for a living. He mentioned that today's synthetics could [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >you live in a very dusty or moisture condensing environment you shouldn't >need to stay with those intervals. This is all well and good if service intervals were just about oil and filter changes. Would you really want to drive a car who's brakes and other associated stuff had not being checked for 100 k miles. Remember a lot of people don't have any sort of idea about this sort of stuff and rely completely on the Dealer service to tell them when work needs doing. Regards Andy Lee SignatureIt matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose. >This is all well and good if service intervals were just about oil and >filter changes. Would you really want to drive a car who's brakes and >other associated stuff had not being checked for 100 k miles. Remember >a lot of people don't have any sort of idea about this sort of stuff >and rely completely on the Dealer service to tell them when work needs >doing. In the UK most people rely on getting the annual MOT certificate to allow them to use the car on the road. In reality so few people with cars that are not brand new ever see a dealer or even their local back street garage unless something breaks - or unless they are forced to by the car failing the MOT test.. For overseas readers MOT= Ministry of Transport. On a car's third anniversary and every year after that it has to be tested. The tests included rolling road brake tests, emissions, condition of wheel bearings, shocks, steering, gaiters, CV joints - correct headlight light alignment and general road safety issues. While this in no way substitutes for regular services I guess it was introduced because a large number of the population were not servicing their cars for 100k miles :( SignatureAlan mailto:news2me_a_2003@amacleod.clara.co.uk >>SIDE BAR - I remember seeing a web site that was set up by someone who >>designed oils for a living. He mentioned that today's synthetics could [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >and rely completely on the Dealer service to tell them when work needs >doing. You raise an interesting point - except that I said that the 100,000 includes filter changes/top ups which means the vehicle is brought in for some sort of periodic servicing. I think manufacturer's could think up a better or easier way to have owners bring vehicles in then rather than snow-jobbing them with the idea that they NEED oil changes every 4000 miles. I think it was a Toyota mini-van that once touted extremely long intervals for the oil - and to ensure that they made getting to the oil filter and spark plugs so incredibly difficult that you had to PULL THE ENGINE to do this simple maintenance. I don't know if they still have this beast on the road anymore. (or perhaps Toyota was doing it's bit to kill of the 10-min lube shops!) >>This is all well and good if service intervals were just about oil and >>filter changes. Would you really want to drive a car who's brakes and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >includes filter changes/top ups which means the vehicle is brought in for >some sort of periodic servicing. Indeed the vehicle could still be brought in at a more regular interval but if you look at the cost of a service by far the greatest part of the cost is the hourly rate of the mechanics time to do the job (unless of course there are major parts needing replacement) The cost of the oil is not really that big a deal. > I think manufacturer's could think up a >better or easier way to have owners bring vehicles in then rather than >snow-jobbing them with the idea that they NEED oil changes every 4000 >miles. This argument has been on here before and I firmly fall into the 4000 miles is not long enough camp but you will also find people who will defend it. I think the middle ground of it depends on the type of driving dictates things like oil change frequency. >I think it was a Toyota mini-van that once touted extremely long intervals >for the oil - and to ensure that they made getting to the oil filter and >spark plugs so incredibly difficult that you had to PULL THE ENGINE to do >this simple maintenance. I don't know if they still have this beast on the >road anymore. (or perhaps Toyota was doing it's bit to kill of the 10-min >lube shops!) BMW and Mercedes have service computers in most of their cars. These give service alerts to the driver based on various inputs inc records of cold and hot starts, time elapsed since last service, oil pressure etc etc. These are fairly sophisticated systems but obviously add to the cost of the vehicle and I don't see Ford or similar adding it to their lower cost machines. > In reality, unless you live in a very dusty or moisture condensing > environment you shouldn't need to stay with those intervals. It will depend on the user's driving pattern too. A lot of cold starts and short journeys (where the fuel mixture is rich and the temperatures low) will degrade the oil more rapidly. Reps running 200 miles a day on motorways won't degrade the oil so much. SignatureChris Game Calm down -- it's only ones and zeroes > SIDE BAR - I remember seeing a web site that was set up by someone who > designed oils for a living. He mentioned that today's synthetics could > actually last 100,000 miles with filter changes and top ups. I'd have to reject the idea this this guy knows every vehicle application out there and can say in one blanket statement that for all cases, all engines, all environments, a 100,000 mile oil service life, even if it is synth oil, is appropriate. > He suggested > that the reason vehicle manufactures keep with the old intervals is that > they are in cahoots with the oil manufacturers. No, they say this not to conspire with anyone, but more to cover their a.ses. I think of it this way: if the oil manufacturers didn't want people to know (shhh!!) that oils really last 100k miles, then why did they go through the trouble to research and design an oil that COULD allegedly last 100k miles? We would have been just as happy - and they would have made more money- by not doing the research and manufacturing the same old oil they've been making since the early 1900s, which really would break down at 3,000 miles. It is true that in *some* and perhaps many cases, oil will last longer than 3,000 miles before it's time to change it (certainly not 100,000 miles though... maybe 5,000 or 7,500, but not 100,000). But the 3,000 miles schedule is still being pushed because in the worst case scenarios, under the most boneheaded and wasteful and abusive of driving conditions, the oil could be pretty foul after 3,000 miles, and require a change. Since most drivers out there don't want to analyze their drivings habits and make judgments, they're simply told to change it at 3k, no matter how you drive. The only way to truly know how long you should wait between oil changes is to have your oil regularly analyzed for contaminants and wear. Once those contaminants reach a certain threshold and the oil has begun to break down to the point where it no longer offers enough protection, it's time to change it. However, there are a lot of cases where the cost of sending your oil to a lab for repeated analysis is more expensive than just changing the oil out at 3k and being done with it. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. > No, they say this not to conspire with anyone, but more to cover their > a.ses. I think of it this way: if the oil manufacturers didn't want [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > drivings habits and make judgments, they're simply told to change it at > 3k, no matter how you drive. Hi in Germany we have one company that is producing a special oil filter that needs to be mounted in addition to the original oil filter. With this filter you don´t need to change your oil. You only need to change the filter cartridge every 30 000 Km and fill up about 0,7 liters of additive when doing so. There are many taxi drivers that use this filter for over 150 000 Km and in Hamburg there are about five busses that have this filters fo about 500 000 Km with no problems. The TV-magazin telemotor bought one VW Golf GTI in 1990 and provided it with this special filter. After two years and 125 000 Km they gave it to an special institute called DEKRA to make a studie about wearing of the engine and they could not find any bad aspekt of faster wearing on any part of the engine. It was just as fine as it should be after that ammount of Km. But the oil industrie wants to sell oil and the manufacturers of cars want you to come by to the service station every year, so they are not interested in such filter technics. And so there is only one little manufacturer for that filters that is struggling for a living. bye Jupp > Hi > in Germany we have one company that is producing a special oil filter [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > bye > Jupp here is a link to this item: http://www.uni-filter.de/eng/index.htm bye Jupp FORD OIL SUCKS BIG TIME!!! USE A AFTERMARKET SYNTHETIC -- LIKE AMSOIL OR MOBIL ONE OR REDLINE. ALSO CHANGE YOUR TRANNY FLUID AS WELL. AUTO OR MANUAL, USE A GOOD SYNTHETIC. FORD MAKES THAT OIL DESTROY YOUR AUTO TRANNY FAST. WE TESTED IT AND IT FAILED AT 24,000 MILES. NOT GOOD. ALSO, REPACK ALL WHEEL BEARINGS -- WITH A SYNTHETIC GREASE -- IT CAN BE DONE IN THE REARS AS WELL. J23. > They (Ford dealer service center) had $26.95 oil change coupon. > I asked whether they use Synthetic blend since that is what is [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > -- > dlkim > FORD OIL SUCKS BIG TIME!!! Screamer! SignatureBezit en wijsheid zijn illusies Ford (Motorcraft) Brand oil is made by Esso. You can only buy the 5W/20 Esso oil as branded Ford thru a Ford dealer or thru an Esso bulk dealer ( a lot less money than Ford). You can also buy Motorcraft 5W20 Synthetic Blend at most Wal-Marts. Decent price for a synthetic blend. JPH > Ford (Motorcraft) Brand oil is made by Esso. You can only buy the 5W/20 Esso > oil as branded Ford thru a Ford dealer or thru an Esso bulk dealer ( a lot > less money than Ford). Maybe you can in the U.S. but not in Canada. Walmart sell Penzoil 5W/20 in Canada. You can also buy Motorcraft 5W20 Synthetic Blend at most Wal-Marts. Decent price for a synthetic blend. JPH Henri wrote: > Ford (Motorcraft) Brand oil is made by Esso. You can only buy the 5W/20 Esso > oil as branded Ford thru a Ford dealer or thru an Esso bulk dealer ( a lot > less money than Ford). |
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