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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / May 2008Chrysler sells all 6400 Dodge Challenger muscle cars
A much-needed $260 million shot in the arm for Chrysler Canada. 6.1 litres, 425hp, mileage like a Durango SUV. But do you know why this is no threat to the environment? Because none of the buyers of these cars are going to use it as a daily driver. They will see weekend use in the summer, like most muscle cars. Which begs the question, why do they charge a $1200 gas-guzzler tax on it in Canada? If you think about it, the guy who opts to drive a 200hp 6-cylinder as their daily driver is burning more fuel than a guy with the Challenger who drives a 4-cylinder to work. Environmental laws need "adjusting." Canada would tax you for wiping your own a.s if they could and they probably do in some form or fashion so don't expect the gas guzzler tax to go away any time soon. Chrysler had better get to work and develop some new cars because they can't live off the 300C forever. They need to sell cars by the hundreds of thousands and not 6,400 at a time. If Chrysler was smart they would be offering a plug in hybrid that seats four comfortably and gets 100-150 miles on a charge. They couldn't make them fast enough to meet the demand, IMO. > A much-needed $260 million shot in the arm for Chrysler Canada. > 6.1 litres, 425hp, mileage like a Durango SUV. But do you know why [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > with the Challenger who drives a 4-cylinder to work. > Environmental laws need "adjusting." On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: > A much-needed $260 million shot in the arm for Chrysler Canada. > 6.1 litres, 425hp, mileage like a Durango SUV. But do you know why [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > with the Challenger who drives a 4-cylinder to work. > Environmental laws need "adjusting." How do you really know when and how far such cars will be driven? SUVs with shitty mileage are widely used for commuting, even with $4/gallon gas. You still hear non-conscientious people saying "I can afford the gas" - as if it's only about money. That obsession with taxes shows the disconnect between physical resources and dollar wealth. Money is not a true resource, just a measure of what people _think_ something ought to be worth; to other people, not the planet, which ought to be the benchmark for wealth. Money has taken too long to reflect physical resource depletion. Few cared to listen when these things were predicted long ago. They assumed all they had to do was get a paycheck and resources would materialize from Heaven. E.A. http://enough_already.tripod.com/money.htm Nature can't hear your excu$e$. > On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > How do you really know when and how far such cars will be driven? Because I know how people use muscle cars and they don't drive them daily, except in rare circumstances. Wear and tear being a good reason not to. >> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > daily, except in rare circumstances. Wear and tear being a good > reason not to. 6400 cars = chump change >>> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > 6400 cars = chump change ..... and it sure as hell won't keep Chrysler in the black. >> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > daily, except in rare circumstances. Wear and tear being a good > reason not to. Well, You're wrong there.  Signature"I've also noted that a couple of my regular spammers have pretty much switched over to phishing and 419s from pecker pills and sawdust tablets." - Bar0 "If it's from BRNIC, it's GOT to be blocked" - Buss Error > On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" > <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > gas. You still hear non-conscientious people saying "I can afford the > gas" - as if it's only about money.\ Look at how many drivers are trying to dump their SUVs and look at the sales figures for low mileage cars and trucks for your answer. All that matters is how far the daily commute is and if the batteries can get them to work and back with an errand or two thrown in for good measure. Then they charge the car overnight for a $1.50 and do all over again the next day. If they have to take a trip then use gas and get 45+ mpg. > That obsession with taxes shows the disconnect between physical > resources and dollar wealth. Money is not a true resource, just a > measure of what people _think_ something ought to be worth; to other > people, not the planet, which ought to be the benchmark for wealth. You want to save the planet? Then make it economical to do so. If people can get 300 miles for a $3.00 charge then electric cars will happen and fast. People aren't going to live like paupers to satisfy a bunch of limousine liberals that burn more fuel in a month than most people will in their lifetime. > Money has taken too long to reflect physical resource depletion. Few > cared to listen when these things were predicted long ago. They > assumed all they had to do was get a paycheck and resources would > materialize from Heaven. What has been depleted? There is basically just as much iron, copper, aluminum, carbon, water etc. on the planet as there was ten million years ago. All we do is move it around from one place to the other. In 100 million years God knows where it will be. > http://enough_already.tripod.com/money.htm > > Nature can't hear your excu$e$. Nature doesn't give a sh.t about mankind. We are nothing more than a slight itch on her backside. Life on Earth has taken hits far worse than anything mankind can dish out (comet hits, massive volcanic eruptions, total global ice coverage etc.) and has rebounded every time with even more diversity of life than before. Mankind is one arrogant life form to think he is the best the Earth can produce. Mankind is just the latest organism to affect the planet. Where do you think all this oxygen we breath came from which makes life as we know it possible? It came from another organism that run a muck for about a billion years. Our impact on the planet is infinitesimal compared to it. These environmentalists act like we are going to be around for a billion years and the Earth should never change during that time. When it comes to the planet Earth, the more things change the more they stay the same. If we are going to survive we had better get good at adapting and overcoming changes instead of thinking we can change the entire planet to our liking. What's next on our list of improvements for the planet? Stopping plate tectonics? > > On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" > > <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > to our liking. What's next on our list of improvements for the planet? > Stopping plate tectonics? +1 If you really believe that man-made greenhouse gasses are warming the climate there is one thing that should become an international priority, and that is to manage fresh water. We need to make sure that the use of all runoff and underground resources are optimized. That would be worth multiple trillions of dollars, it is somethng we can actually do, and it would yield benefits regardless of climate change. These endless debates about whether and how to manage man-made greenhouse gas production are completely pointless. The West could park every car, close off every gas pipeline, and shut down every fossil fuel powerplant tomorrow and it would not reduce the current 325 ppm concentration of CO2 for 100 years. It would not even stop the increase. At the same time, such a measure -- or even the 20 to 80% aspirational goals the alarmists bandy about -- would condemn the entire world to economic collapse. Also at the same time, the "consensus" scientists predict that the current 325 ppm concentration of CO2 is already sufficient to guarantee catastrophic climate change. Therefore a program of adaptaion is the only reasonable response. Where are the alarmists on the issue of adaptation? I'll tell you where: in denial. It's not nearly as much fun to do something constructive in the real world, somethng that doesn't include the huge measure of the self-righteous, quasi-theological posturing and state control that the Greenies invariably favor. That's what Greenism is after all, a religion. It's not about achieving results in the real world. It's about doing "God's work," living a virtuous life, with the only reward a spiritual one. Also, the right to heap scorn on your sinful neighbors. 180 Out >>> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >>> <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > can actually do, and it would yield benefits regardless of climate > change. Even with water there are many areas where supply is more than adequate. I live in Virginia and we have water running out of our ears. If we need more then we build another dam. The real problem when it comes to water is too many people want to live in places where it is scarce. For some reason we think living by the millions in Phoenix, Las Vegas, Southern California etc. is the way nature intended. I hear these people complaining about water shortages and I just scratch my head and want to scream "You live in a f***ing desert, what do you expect?!?!" The same goes for many other parts of the world. > These endless debates about whether and how to manage man-made > greenhouse gas production are completely pointless. The West could [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "consensus" scientists predict that the current 325 ppm concentration > of CO2 is already sufficient to guarantee catastrophic climate change. To quote Rev. Wright, the chickens are coming home to roost for the global warming idiots. Average temperatures haven't increased since 1998 and they are declining. All these hi-tech computer models got it wrong when it comes to CO2's effect on climate. Last month was the 29th coolest in the past 115 years. Do you notice now the term global warming is being replaced with climate change? Why do you think that is occurring? It is because global warming is no longer happening and they need a new term to shove down our throats and mislead the public. > Therefore a program of adaptaion is the only reasonable response. > Where are the alarmists on the issue of adaptation? I'll tell you [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the only reward a spiritual one. Also, the right to heap scorn on > your sinful neighbors. All one has to do it look at climate change over the course of human's time here on Earth to see that change IS the natural process. These environmental idiots think they can predict climate 100 years from now with 10-20 years of data. Hell, they can't tell me if it will rain tomorrow. These environmental wackos are lead around by people like Al Gore who only cares about making millions playing the fear card. How many "doomsday" scenarios have these people played on us over the past 50 years? More than I can remember. I think the "cry wolf" syndrome has finally sunk in to most of us regarding these people. I wonder what the next eminent global disaster will be according to the enviro-nazi? We are finding out that it isn't global warming or climate change. Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote: > Even with water there are many areas where supply is more than adequate. > I live in Virginia and we have water running out of our ears. If we [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > want to scream "You live in a f***ing desert, what do you expect?!?!" > The same goes for many other parts of the world. Of all the states that have access to the great lakes, only Indiana wants to sup up as much as they can and not return what they used back into the watershed. That's because only a tiny tip of the state is attached to the lakes while the rest resides on land that has lowered their water table through use of wells to a point where they are predicted to be screwed dry in 20 more years. The agreement in place about using water from the great lakes is an international treaty between Canada and the USA that mandates two way flow of water. If it's taken in, it's got to be put back in. > Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote: >> Even with water there are many areas where supply is more than adequate. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > through use of wells to a point where they are predicted to be screwed dry in > 20 more years. I grew up in Indiana and have all my relatives still living there. They have plenty of water. Besides, there is a great way to collect water. It is called a dam. Indiana uses 303 mgd of ground water or 110,595 mgy (million gallons per year). Indiana is comprised of 36,291 square miles. Do the math and you will find the that the 110,595 mgy used is 3.28% of the State's annual rainfall volume of 3,369,077 mgy. Much of Indiana's ground cover is natural which promotes high saturation of rainfall into the soil. Typical runoff coefficients for natural, flat land areas is about 0.25-0.35 which means the majority of rainfall soaks into the soil. I doubt Indiana's water table levels are in much jeopardy overall. I did a quick Google search regarding falling water tables in Indiana and didn't find any huge issues regarding a dwindling ground water supply in the state. > The agreement in place about using water from the great lakes is an > international treaty between Canada and the USA that mandates two way flow of > water. If it's taken in, it's got to be put back in. Do you know why the level of the Great Lakes are dropping? It is because the Earth's crust is rebounding due to the weight of the glaciers being removed from the retreat of the last ice age. Here's a link: http://tinyurl.com/4szlt4 Trying to control the level of the Great Lakes is like trying to stop a volcano from exploding. >>>> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >>>> <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > want to scream "You live in a f***ing desert, what do you expect?!?!" > The same goes for many other parts of the world. I live in Las Vegas. Yes, it is a desert. BTW, we aren't complaining, but we are concerned. Pretty much ANY place on this planet has problems of one sort or another. Virginia is no great place either -- I know, I lived there. It all comes down to resource management -- in a cooperative and sharing way that isn't bound by arbitrary societal boundaries. >>>>> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >>>>> <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > It all comes down to resource management -- in a cooperative and sharing > way that isn't bound by arbitrary societal boundaries. At least I don't have to water my grass in Virginia except for a few weeks in August. IMO, every area of the country has its own brand of beauty and my comments never said desert areas are ugly. My point is they are not optimal for large scale human habitation. I'm not saying that people shouldn't have a choice to live in desert areas but many of these environmentalists use the Southwest, in general, to try and scare the rest of the country into thinking they too have a water shortage. This just isn't true. If it weren't for colossal civil engineering projects (BTW, I am a civil engineer) controlling stormwater runoff, very few people would occupy the Southwest. There will come a point, IMO, where the number of people living in this part of the country will be restricted as there is a limited amount of water that they can utilize to support a given population level. >>>>>> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >>>>>> <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] > the rest of the country into thinking they too have a water shortage. > This just isn't true. Ok, then name a place that IS optimal for large scale human habitation. > If it weren't for colossal civil engineering projects (BTW, I am a civil > engineer) controlling stormwater runoff, very few people would occupy > the Southwest. There will come a point, IMO, where the number of people > living in this part of the country will be restricted as there is a > limited amount of water that they can utilize to support a given > population level. I look at it this way: thanks to the ingenuity of man, we have areas that are much more habitable. >>>>>>> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >>>>>>> <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 122 lines] > > Ok, then name a place that IS optimal for large scale human habitation. Well, Virginia is a good start. The Eastern half of the United States has water, wood, tillable soil as the very basics to support large population and it does as a large portion of the country's population lives there. >> If it weren't for colossal civil engineering projects (BTW, I am a >> civil engineer) controlling stormwater runoff, very few people would [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I look at it this way: thanks to the ingenuity of man, we have areas > that are much more habitable. No doubt. It makes me proud to be a civil engineer. It also makes us, as a whole, very vulnerable to anything that disrupts the functioning of our technology to a large extent. >>>>>>> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >>>>>>> <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ok, then name a place that IS optimal for large scale human habitation. Al Gores house?.............efficient living for large scale, enough FOOD in the refrigerator for the masses. Teddy Kennedy's Car?.........save gas, carpool he needs new passengers at every bridge, it's a large scale *rehabitation* operation. ANWR?...............It's getting warmer, move in today NO MONEY DOWN...SUB PRIME government backed loans, own your own 5 acre caribou ranch. Neverland Ranch?.........Micheal Jackson has empty rooms, a large scale number of young boys are welcome to begin habitation. Myanmar?........Suddenly has new openings for large scale habitation. <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > >>>>>>> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" > >>>>>>> <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Al Gores house?.............efficient living for large scale, enough > FOOD in the refrigerator for the masses. Oh fer f.ck sakes! His place is massive and he's fixed it. He's also (still) got an office full of Secret Agents BECAUSE that is what happens to you when you are a former VP. Ask that stupid f.ck Dan Quayle, he's got the same! It is not the average house. John Harding <johnharding3492@yahoo.com> wrote: > <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> On May 9, 7:38 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > It is not the average house. I'm Canadian, but what I like the most to do with American things, is that the proper way to refer to Bush, Clinton and Carter is "Mister President" And Dan Quayle or Dick? "Mister Vice President" That is like when you meet The Queen, and you say "Your Majesty" John Harding <johnharding3492@yahoo.com> wrote: > John Harding <johnharding3492@yahoo.com> wrote: > > <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > That is like when you meet The Queen, and you say "Your Majesty" Every former Prime Minister in Canada or the UK is properly addressed as "Your honour" > John Harding <johnharding3492@yahoo.com> wrote: >> John Harding <johnharding3492@yahoo.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Every former Prime Minister in Canada or the UK is properly addressed as > "Your honour" Only if I respect them and their office.... You earn respect in America, it's not bestowed upon you by the King. I use Sir and your Honour when they earn it. <snip> >I live in Las Vegas. Yes, it is a desert. BTW, we aren't complaining, >but we are concerned. When I was there in March ya`all sure as hell where. >Pretty much ANY place on this planet has problems of one sort or >another. Virginia is no great place either -- I know, I lived there. Of course every place will have one problem or another, but picking a place to live that isn't able to naturally support its population isn't all that wise. >It all comes down to resource management -- in a cooperative and sharing >way that isn't bound by arbitrary societal boundaries. Sounds like Communism, that didn't work where tried either. We will always be constrained by societal boundaries, arbitrary or not. Signature"Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli >> It all comes down to resource management -- in a cooperative and sharing >> way that isn't bound by arbitrary societal boundaries. If you need this much micro managing and regiment in your daily life, you're needing to find a country that can offer it..... The USA was never designed to have society ruled from the TOP DOWN. > Sounds like Communism, that didn't work where tried either. We will > always be constrained by societal boundaries, arbitrary or not. <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > >> It all comes down to resource management -- in a cooperative and sharing > >> way that isn't bound by arbitrary societal boundaries. > > If you need this much micro managing and regiment in your daily life, > you're needing to find a country that can offer it..... The USA was > never designed to have society ruled from the TOP DOWN. What ever happened to the good old days 30 years-ago in California, during when someone pissed you off in a bumper-to-bumper on a free way, you just pulled out a hand gun and straigtened things out by shooting a few rounds off? Thems was the times! > <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thems was the times! You mean the time before ROAD RAGE was common place... Now people just keep an extra gallon of diesel in the car and a disposable lighter to straighten out lousy drivers. Life sure gets better with more liberal laws doesn't it. Tire irons, baseball bats, chains.... We need a few more laws about our cars and some more taxes to make life better so a few more people will go over the edge from all the stress and aggravation. <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > > <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > You mean the time before ROAD RAGE was common place... Boy, that was during the deep and heady days of line ups for petrol, when a Ford Pinto was a family car, not a grenade! Ah! But I did own a 5 litre Gremlin 5 speed. Next to the 327 ci small block Chevy Malibu I drove in high school, it ruled! Those were the days! > <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: >>> <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Boy, that was during the deep and heady days of line ups for petrol, when a > Ford Pinto was a family car, not a grenade! Been there knew someone that had one, he was the definition of road rage.... he even had a new engine put in it after he blew up the first engine. Truly a portable weapon was the Pinto. I alway got out of their way. > Ah! But I did own a 5 litre Gremlin 5 speed. I'm sorry! > Next to the 327 ci small block Chevy Malibu I drove in high school, it ruled! I drove a 950cc Austin Healey Sprite and a Kawasaki 90cc.... they were the smallest things in the parking lot. I could barely fit the gun under the seat. The added weight slowed me down by 2mph.... So I got a P/U truck and a gun rack and intimidated the hell out of all the Grimlin's and Malibu's > Those were the days! <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > I drove a 950cc Austin Healey Sprite and a Kawasaki 90cc.... they were > the smallest things in the parking lot. > > I could barely fit the gun under the seat. The added weight slowed me > down by 2mph.... So I got a P/U truck and a gun rack and intimidated the > hell out of all the Grimlin's and Malibu's I still own a 1982 Honda CF900 Super Sport. It's over 95 horsepower! What a classic. I'm with you bud! <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > I could barely fit the gun under the seat. The added weight slowed me > down by 2mph.... So I got a P/U truck and a gun rack and intimidated the > hell out of all the Grimlin's and Malibu's Can you say "Easy Rider Rifle Rack"? LOL! That comes from the Dennis Hopper / Peter Fonda movie from '69. I'm no kid. > <snip> >> I live in Las Vegas. Yes, it is a desert. BTW, we aren't complaining, >> but we are concerned. >> > When I was there in March ya`all sure as hell where. Really? What is meant by "ya`all"? >> Pretty much ANY place on this planet has problems of one sort or >> another. Virginia is no great place either -- I know, I lived there. >> > Of course every place will have one problem or another, but picking a > place to live that isn't able to naturally support its population > isn't all that wise. Name any place that is naturally able to support its population. >> It all comes down to resource management -- in a cooperative and sharing >> way that isn't bound by arbitrary societal boundaries. >> > Sounds like Communism, that didn't work where tried either. We will > always be constrained by societal boundaries, arbitrary or not. I said cooperation. Our chance at success is limited by arbitrary boundaries. <Zomby-Woof@cox.net> wrote: > Sounds like Communism, that didn't work where tried either. We will > always be constrained by societal boundaries, arbitrary or not. Everything sounds like Communism when you watch The O'Reilly Factor. Don't eat cheese! Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote: > We are finding out that it isn't global warming or climate change. That's true, if you rely on newspaper opinion pieces, bloggers and shills from the carbon emitting industries for your science and wear a tinfoil beanie while ranting paranoically about it being a big socialist conspiracy engineered by Al Gore. There hasn't been a single peer reviewed paper published that refutes the fact that global warming is happening. Most of the "scientists" have not worked in the field for over a decade or haven't the qualifications to know anything about it. Relying on their opinions is tantamount to relying on your dentist's opinion about cancer treatment. Just because he's a doctor doesn't mean he's an expert. You obviously don't know that. > I wonder what the next eminent global disaster will be according to the enviro-nazi? >We are finding out that it isn't global warming or climate change. Maybe it is just the "Change of Life". Perhaps old Ma`Nature is going Menopausal. Signature"Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli <Zomby-Woof@cox.net> wrote: > > I wonder what the next eminent global disaster will be according to the enviro-nazi? > >We are finding out that it isn't global warming or climate change. > > > Maybe it is just the "Change of Life". Perhaps old Ma`Nature is going > Menopausal. \ More species died after the big one that took out the dinosaurs millions of years ago, and man didn't even exist. The Planet Earth will always exist. But will we be like the dinos or not? >> I wonder what the next eminent global disaster will be according to the enviro-nazi? >> We are finding out that it isn't global warming or climate change. >> > Maybe it is just the "Change of Life". Perhaps old Ma`Nature is going > Menopausal. Nah, Mother Nature is chugging right along and barely notices us humans. We have occupied just a fraction of a tick on her clock and she doesn't care about us. One thing you can count on is that some of us humans will come up with the next environmental disaster du jour and try to scare the hell out of us over nothing once again. One day they just might have a legitimate cause to promote and we won't believe them because they cried wolf too many times. Michael Johnson <cds@erols.com> wrote: > These environmentalists act like we are going to be around for a billion > years and the Earth should never change during that time. It's not about saving the planet. The planet doesn't give a f.ck. The planet survived the demise of more species than exist today. And people who support the polluters say that change is natural, even when it's accelerated by the polluters. Just be sure that we keep getting our energy from the same people who fly jetliners into our skyscrapers and control OPEC and things will be fine. Don't you worry Jerry Buck. Hell! Even NASCAR's gone environmental and stopped using leaded fuel and Bush, McCain and just about everybody else except for a few fringe nutters say that global warming is for real. Looks like Bush and McCain are followers of the diabolical Al Gore! Frank Jones <frankjones@hotmail.com> wrote: > Don't you worry Jerry Buck. Hell! Even NASCAR's gone environmental and > stopped using leaded fuel and Bush, McCain and just about everybody else > except for a few fringe nutters say that global warming is for real. Don't ge me started on those jackasses in NASCAR. They still use carburettors and push rods, and that technology hasn't been seen in a North American automobile showroom since 1988. Nice to see that they aren't using leaded gasoline though. That was banned in the mid 1980's for road cars. They even allowed open face driver helmets up until Earhardt died in 2001. I guess at this rate, they'll be up to today's standards for "stock" cars by 2020. Yee Haw! Go Jethro! On Fri, 9 May 2008 07:38:32 -0700 (PDT), "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : > If you think about it, the guy who opts to drive a >200hp 6-cylinder as their daily driver is burning more fuel than a guy >with the Challenger who drives a 4-cylinder to work. >Environmental laws need "adjusting." put the tax on gasoline. Burning gas is what causes the damage. Now that demand is growing faster than supply, the prices are going to skyrocket anyway. The money might as well go to the government as Exxon. At least then there is some home of tax relief elsewhere. SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com > On Fri, 9 May 2008 07:38:32 -0700 (PDT), "$27 TRILLION to pay for > Kyoto" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > skyrocket anyway. The money might as well go to the government as > Exxon. At least then there is some home of tax relief elsewhere. The money goes to stock holders and they are IRA/401K retirement accounts(the Little Guy), you Liberals are so stupid that you pilfer Social Security and now you want to pilfer the *Private retirement* accounts, all in the name of getting another tax so Government can grow even more. Taking money off the top of corporate earnings, hurts the working people. Once again Liberalism attacks the hard working people and wants to give our money to *Government* and freeloaders who *contribute zero* to the *economic health* of the NATION. <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > Taking money off the top of corporate earnings, hurts the working > people. Once again Liberalism attacks the hard working people and wants > to give our money to *Government* and freeloaders who *contribute zero* > to the *economic health* of the NATION. Yeah, and GM, Ford, Toyota and Honda in Canada do better assembling automobiles in Canada due to "national health care". GM, America's biggest corporation, is sucking because they pay for the sh.t. Meanwhile, GM Canada does a lot better because Canada has single payer. Sorry man, I was just in Spartansburg all last week. The only reason BMW does well there is due to "low wages". Toyota and Honda in Canada? They're not UAW or CAW union, but are payed the same. More than Yanks. America's answer to globalism is to be paid as if they were bare footed chinks in a factory in China. And they're making BMW's. > <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: >> Taking money off the top of corporate earnings, hurts the working [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > America's answer to globalism is to be paid as if they were bare footed > chinks in a factory in China. And they're making BMW's. I agree, but the cause is.... Carter's tax and regulate. Reagan granting amnesty to Illegals instead of fixing the problem. Bush 1 with his new world order. Globalizing and sending our Production off shore.Raising Taxes. Clinton not keeping his promise to VETO NAFTA. Not fixing the Illegals, And Raising taxes. This Bush with his Social Spending, and non enforcement of the Immigration. The US Workers watch a loaf of bread and gas and everything go up 6 times their costs in 20 years and the pay is about the same for low to mid level skilled jobs. But then I'm not going to buy new cars from Canada or a new BMW from the USA..... until they show some respect for American workers.... I try to buy from companies that treat people descent. I'm seeing companies go belly up here in the US... real estate companies and builders and car lots..... it's not surprising since the government has been bleeding the population dry with it's lack of concern for immigration and loss of manufacturing and insatiable appetite for new spending and taxes. <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > I'm seeing companies go belly up here in the US... real estate companies > and builders and car lots..... it's not surprising since the > government has been bleeding the population dry with it's lack of > concern for immigration and loss of manufacturing and insatiable > appetite for new spending and taxes. Funny, without immigration, our Social Security would be busted. The world says that Canada's immigration wll help us in the end. I know too many friends who are from religious sides, none of the Muslims want to pull out a Koran and kill me! They eat, they drink. They're like you and I. It's hard to be a bigot when you respect people. > <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: >> I'm seeing companies go belly up here in the US... real estate companies >> and builders and car lots..... it's not surprising since the >> government has been bleeding the population dry with it's lack of >> concern for immigration and loss of manufacturing and insatiable >> appetite for new spending and taxes. > Funny, without immigration, our Social Security would be busted. It's a pyramid scheme... that's why it needs new people to keep it a float. > The world says that Canada's immigration wll help us in the end. Great, enjoy it. > I know too many friends who are from religious sides, none of the Muslims > want to pull out a Koran and kill me! Lucky you. > They eat, they drink. They're like you and I. Not quite... but prepare to be assimilated. > It's hard to be a bigot when you respect people. You must be getting this from a different post, the above quoted text can't be construed as Bigoted, even using twisted politically correct Liberal standards of thought control. Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting equality* that require us to be the same? <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting > equality* that require us to be the same? Yes, I fundamentally promote "Diversity" and "multiculturalism" I'm also a somewhat wealthy person who decides on my vote in the means, and not by political partisan notions. And your problem is? > <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: >> Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And your problem is? People that think I owe them something because they're breathing. <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > > <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: > >> Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > People that think I owe them something because they're breathing. That is your interpretation. I don't see it as being bigoted. People have a right to be who they are, as long as they don't threaten me. I am an agnostic, but I respect the cultures and opinions of people, just as long as they do not intrude. > <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: >>> <Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I am an agnostic, but I respect the cultures and opinions of people, just as > long as they do not intrude. I didn't say I hate anyone, I don't know where you pulled that from... but if you're talking about Islam.... then half the world is Islamic and they stand by while a hand full soil their religion..... or maybe they believe in what the terrorist are doing, but they sure haven't risen up to condemn and stop child killing in the name of Islam, *why is that* ? If someone says their killing children on my behalf, I'd have something to say about it. >> Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting >> equality* that require us to be the same? >> > Yes, I fundamentally promote "Diversity" and "multiculturalism" Do you think everyone should? Or is there room for those who disagree? >>> Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting >>> equality* that require us to be the same? >>> >> Yes, I fundamentally promote "Diversity" and "multiculturalism" > >Do you think everyone should? Or is there room for those who disagree? If one truly supports "Diversity", then that would have to include Diverse Opinions, since diversity simply means different. To me, the absolute greatest thing about "Diversity" and "Multiculturalism" is the food. The rest of it is simply Liberal Bullshit to legitimize discrimination against another group of people (namely Straight White Males nowadays). Signature"Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli >>> Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting >>> equality* that require us to be the same? >>> >> Yes, I fundamentally promote "Diversity" and "multiculturalism" > > Do you think everyone should? Or is there room for those who disagree? Liberals preach diversity and try to promote it by passing wide sweeping laws that seek to make us all the same(equal)..... as with most Liberal actions it's based in nonsense and hypocrisy. >>>> Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting >>>> equality* that require us to be the same? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >laws that seek to make us all the same(equal)..... as with most Liberal >actions it's based in nonsense and hypocrisy. Pushing certain groups of people down does not in & off itself mean you are actually lifting other people up. There is a somewhat interesting short story about the creation of the Government Handicapping Office where smart people have chips implanted to bring their IQ down to the acceptable level and those able to jump higher then others have weights tied to their feet. It just might be another case of written Science Fiction becoming Science Fact. Signature"Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli >>>>> Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting >>>>> equality* that require us to be the same? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > It just might be another case of written Science Fiction becoming > Science Fact. It sounds like the Bible that Public schools already use to structure how they TEACH KIDS. They teach them diversity, and in order to do it, they attempt to make them all the same in the classroom so that they learn it equally. We have a dress code at school to help them learn, and promote diversity. We don't allow students to say anything or learn anything that might offend anyone else, because that diversity of language or knowledge might emphasize someone else's diversity. Smart kids are slowed down so they can all be alike; no child left behind, that way the NON diversity in the classroom makes the slower kids FEEL BETTER and respect diversity. Liberals love Diversity We make all the kids winners when we hand out trophies, because diversity is a good thing and we want to teach and respect it. On May 14, 9:57 am, Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n- Dog.com> wrote: > Zomby-W...@cox.net wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > They teach them diversity, and in order to do it, they attempt to make > them all the same in the classroom so that they learn it equally. What a pity that you were such a failure in school and ended up like you are today, an igorant fool spewing gibberish on Usenet 24/7. None of your posts demonstrate the slightest bit of intelligence whatsoever. >>>>>> Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting >>>>>> equality* that require us to be the same? [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >behind, that way the NON diversity in the classroom makes the slower >kids FEEL BETTER and respect diversity. Liberals love Diversity The only way they can keep their power base is to create more & more stupid people. It isn't "No Child Left Behind", it is every child kept behind. >We make all the kids winners when we hand out trophies, because >diversity is a good thing and we want to teach and respect it. Ahh yes, Soccer Participation Trophy's. Even the fat kids can be winners. Signature"Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli >>>>>>> Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting >>>>>>> equality* that require us to be the same? [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Ahh yes, Soccer Participation Trophy's. Even the fat kids can be > winners. AAAhhhh WeedHopper, when you can snatch the pebble.... >>>>>> Are you *promoting Diversity* , or planning more laws *promoting >>>>>> equality* that require us to be the same? [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >We make all the kids winners when we hand out trophies, because >diversity is a good thing and we want to teach and respect it. And once again science fiction predicts the future long before it comes to pass.... > A much-needed $260 million shot in the arm for Chrysler Canada. > 6.1 litres, 425hp, mileage like a Durango SUV. But do you know why [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > with the Challenger who drives a 4-cylinder to work. > Environmental laws need "adjusting." They already tax fuel. The more you use, the more revenue they get. Ought to be enough for them. Koyto has nothing to do about climate change. It has everything to do with global wealth redistribution. It is a communist wet dream come true. If all Koyto protocols were to be adopted buy all countries, including China and India, (who are exempt)the total impact would be 1/4 of 1 percent of the carbon in the atmosphere. Pissing on a forest fire comes to mind. The tax is simply a method of making you pay homage to their pagan gods. And a carbon credit is simply the way to transfer wealth from those who are productive to those who are not. Vote wisely people. A government which promises you everything you need (according to them) will cost you all that you have. >> A much-needed $260 million shot in the arm for Chrysler Canada. >> 6.1 litres, 425hp, mileage like a Durango SUV. But do you know why [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > promises you everything you need (according to them) will cost you all > that you have. Finally someone with an intelligent response! Right on columbotrek. :) >>> A much-needed $260 million shot in the arm for Chrysler Canada. >>> 6.1 litres, 425hp, mileage like a Durango SUV. But do you know [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Finally someone with an intelligent response! Right on > columbotrek. :) Of course a little piss in the right place at the right time can make a world of difference. Ask Carroll Shelby. SignatureFrank ess > >>> A much-needed $260 million shot in the arm for Chrysler Canada. > >>> 6.1 litres, 425hp, mileage like a Durango SUV. But do you know [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > -- > Frank ess A quote from an interview posted with The Skeptical Environmentalist, Bjorn Lomborg, posted May 14 on National Review Online: Lomborg: Kyoto burned a lot of political capital to create a response to climate change that costs a fortune but achieves very little. The climate models show that the Kyoto protocol would have postponed the effects of global warming by seven days by the end of the century. Even if the U.S. and Australia had signed on and everyone stuck to Kyoto for this entire century, we would postpone the effects of global warming by only five years — at a cost of $180 billion each year. Lopez: What could the planet do instead of Kyoto? Lomborg: We need to make carbon-emissions cuts much easier. The typical cost of cutting a ton of CO2 is about $20 right now — but we know that the damage from a ton of carbon in the atmosphere is about $2. We need to reduce the cost of cutting emissions from $20 to somewhere nearer $2. We can achieve this by spending dramatically more researching and developing low-carbon energy. Ideally, every nation should commit to spending 0.05 percent of its gross domestic production exploring non- carbon-emitting energy technologies — be they wind, wave, or solar power — or capturing CO2 emissions from power plants. This spending could add up to about $25 billion a year, but it would still be seven times cheaper than the Kyoto protocol, yet increase global research and development tenfold. All nations would be involved, but the richer ones would pay the larger share. Today, solar panels are ten times more inefficient than the cheapest fossil fuels. Only the very wealthy can afford them. Many “green” approaches, right now, do little more than make rich people feel like they are helping the planet. We can’t solve climate change by just forcing more inefficient solar panels onto people’s rooftops. The solution is to dramatically increase R&D so that solar panels become cheaper than fossil fuels sooner. Imagine if solar panels became cheaper than fossil fuels by 2050 — we would have solved global warming then, because switching to the environmentally friendly option wouldn’t be the preserve of rich Westerners. ************************************' 180 Out
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