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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / November 2009In Ontario, texting retards are going away
Now the new law has passed. In the U.S. the other week, woman (texting) pulls out into the street. Bike comes along doing 85mph, ends up with the bike IN the car. Kills all three people involved. Sure, the bike was speeding, but he wouldn't have been able to stop if he'd been going 1/2 the speed. But the stupid car driver could have avoided it altogether. Cellphone-addicted MORONS need to be taught a strong lesson. > Now the new law has passed. In the U.S. the other week, woman > (texting) pulls out into the street. Bike comes along doing 85mph, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > avoided it altogether. Cellphone-addicted MORONS need to be taught a > strong lesson. WTF was the bike doing 85MPH?? Add another moron to the list. reckless motorcycle riders need lessoning too. 85 mph? Good riddance. > Now the new law has passed. In the U.S. the other week, woman > (texting) pulls out into the street. Bike comes along doing 85mph, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > avoided it altogether. Cellphone-addicted MORONS need to be taught a > strong lesson. Rich,,, it could only be someone like you that would try to make a speeder look like an innocent bystander... I drive a motorcycle as often as our weather will allow.... instead of trying to drive 85 mph, I drive like I would like to be around next week. Speed addicted morons need to be taught a strong lesson.... and it would be nice if they didn't take sell phone idiots and innocent passengers with them... You are one fine piece of work... > Now the new law has passed. In the U.S. the other week, woman > (texting) pulls out into the street. Bike comes along doing 85mph, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > avoided it altogether. Cellphone-addicted MORONS need to be taught a > strong lesson. > Rich,,, it could only be someone like you that would try to make a speeder > look like an innocent bystander... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You are one fine piece of work... I really find that those who excuse violations of the rules of right of way because the person with the right of way was exceeding some arbitrary speed value to be the pieces of work. 85mph was probably stupid fast for whatever road it was, but we don't know that for sure. However, without a right of way violation there is no collision. The right of way violation is what puts two vehicles in conflict, not their respective speeds. It is the cause, not speed. I've been yelled at by people who pulled right out in front of me that I was 'going too fast' on my _BICYCLE_. How dare I travel at 25mph or even 15mph! (and that's without exceeding the number on the sign) They couldn't be bothered to pay attention, so they just pull right out. If they can't notice bicyclists at 25mph, then there is something very wrong with their driving. While driving I've had people run stop signs (as in not even stopping) in front of me and then claim I was going 'too fast' even with my speed under the arbitrary number set by the government. Why? because I should be going slower to compensate for their rude and stupid behavior that's why! Someone was killed very close to where I live when a driver pulled their mercury sedan out in front of his motorcycle. He was apparently obeying the posted speed limit at the time (on a bright sunny day). Should he have been going slower? Some people want a traffic light there now. why? So people don't have to work at the task of driving. Making 'speed' the focus means ignoring the real problem. People don't want to be bothered doing the work of driving so they figure they can just consider it someone else's duty to avoid them. Just make everyone else drive slower. (not them of course, everyone else) >> Now the new law has passed. In the U.S. the other week, woman >> (texting) pulls out into the street. Bike comes along doing 85mph, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> avoided it altogether. Cellphone-addicted MORONS need to be taught a >> strong lesson. That's a pretty weak argument on it's own.. as an avid motorcyclist, I have had many near misses cause by someone elses right of way violation... I have avoided them all - thus far... by using MY head, by observing the rules of the road and maintaining a high level of situational awareness... Defensive driving... the human condition is frail and fraught with errors in judgement, lapses of attention and moments of utter idiocy... It isn't enough to simply point a scooter in a line and throw caution to the wind. Keeping a watchful eye for someone elses mistake (and observing a few rules of the road himself) might have delivered a different outcome for any and all involved. Had he been observing the speed limit... had he been situationally aware... had he been driving in a rational manner... he would most likely be alive to tell us he did everything in his power to be a safe driver... In this accident BOTH drivers were in the wrong.... and since they are both dead, it doesn't matter how much blame is assigned to which driver... And, since you seem to have missed my point... I wasn't excusing anyones violation... if EITHER driver had exercised any common sense, tragedy could have been avoided.. >> Rich,,, it could only be someone like you that would try to make a >> speeder [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >>> avoided it altogether. Cellphone-addicted MORONS need to be taught a >>> strong lesson. > That's a pretty weak argument on it's own.. as an avid motorcyclist, I have > had many near misses cause by someone elses right of way violation... I have > avoided them all - thus far... by using MY head, by observing the rules of > the road and maintaining a high level of situational awareness... No, it's not a weak argument. The USA is all sorts of unsafe because it encourages stupidity while demanding everyone drive slowly. It's a lot like top posting. It's a system where everyone else is expected to adapt to the rudest people on the road. It's a transfer of responsibility of the task of driving on to others instead of dealing with it. Don't you get tired of dealing with all the rude and selfish behavior out there? And eventually someone will do something so astoundingly stupid that you won't be able to compensate for them. I've driven where the driving model is centered on people not interfering with each other instead of control freakishness on speed. It was wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. People kept right, people used signals, people paid attention, people accelerated when the light turned green, people didn't block, I could go on and on with all the behaviors I didn't have to deal with there. > Defensive driving... the human condition is frail and fraught with errors in > judgement, lapses of attention and moments of utter idiocy... It isn't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > most likely be alive to tell us he did everything in his power to be a safe > driver... Great. Works fine in 1930s Nebraska or some other place with little traffic and limited population. It simply doesn't scale. People don't have infinite tolerance. Everybody has a limit. The idea that we're all supposed to 'just take it' simply encourages rudeness. When there's a lot of people around, a good number take advantage of this a.s-backwards system and behave very rudely ON PURPOSE. Others just don't care about what their actions do to others. They don't know you, they are unlikely to see you again so they don't care. Their phone call is more important than your life. You're supposed to drive 20mph or less to compensate for their stupidity and selfishness. Except when one of them is behind you. > And, since you seem to have missed my point... I wasn't excusing anyones > violation... if EITHER driver had exercised any common sense, tragedy could > have been avoided.. No, you quite clearly jumped down the OP's throat. Jumped down the OPs throat? I guess you haven't watched Rich before.... Rich believes that everyone should street race.... you don't need a gas pedal... An <ON/OFF> switch would do just as well... As for safety.... If you depend on anyone else other than yourself for your own safety... you are a fool. But that's OK... because you might soon be relieved of the title... unfortunately "deceased" isn't an improvement. You have someone going 85 miles per hour..... is he concerned with anyones safety? His own? Yours? Mine? Anyones? You have someone "preoccupied". Were they concerned with anyones safety? Yours? Mine? Some w.nker going 85 miles per hour? Rich has a vendetta... you are becoming a willing subscriber. None of us will be safe until every one of us participates..... But... logic isn't required when it flies in the face of "having fun". Top posting assures that you wont have to scroll down through line after line of stuff you already perused just to be sure I didn't say "me too". Being contrary for the sake of being contrary is counterproductive and indicates a subliminal wish that you hadn't endured that piercing or body art when you should have been out becoming a statistic.... FWIW.... I spent many years on our local fire department.... Amongst other titles and duties, I am certified as a rescue technician.... scraping people like you up off the road .... scraping your victims up off the road... is something I tried not taking home.... I can see where your attitude can take you.... Too bad you can't. If you are truly looking out for number one... you have to look out for every idiot out there.... If you worry about top posting - block me now..... >> That's a pretty weak argument on it's own.. as an avid motorcyclist, I >> have [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > No, you quite clearly jumped down the OP's throat. > Jumped down the OPs throat? I guess you haven't watched Rich before.... Rich > believes that everyone should street race.... you don't need a gas pedal... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > own safety... you are a fool. But that's OK... because you might soon be > relieved of the title... unfortunately "deceased" isn't an improvement. The system is designed such that the burden is shifted on 'everyone else'. Problem with such systems is that eventually the people who are responsible become very very very few. > You have someone going 85 miles per hour..... is he concerned with anyones > safety? His own? Yours? Mine? Anyones? You don't know what sort of road this was. You're making huge assumptions. I've had people pull out in front of me and CROSS interstates. > You have someone "preoccupied". Were they concerned with anyones safety? > Yours? Mine? Some w.nker going 85 miles per hour? What's magic about 85? Because that's all you know. > Rich has a vendetta... you are becoming a willing subscriber. Not at all. I just don't believe in your go slow idiot encouraging religion. > None of us will be safe until every one of us participates..... You and those like you have had 70+ years with your slow everyone down to compensate for rudeness and idiotcy. How has it worked? It's established a highwayman revenue collection for government. It's brought about a general disrespect for the vehicle code. It's brought lower saftety than what would be otherwise. It's created endless frustration and congestion. But what's the response? More enforcement of course... We now have checkpoints. Remember when the USA was better than the USSR and one of the reasons was there weren't checkpoints here? > But... logic isn't required when it flies in the face of "having fun". Having fun... like this cop: http://blip.tv/file/2741456 > Top posting assures that you wont have to scroll down through line after > line of stuff you already perused just to be sure I didn't say "me too". Top posting is 'I don't give a damn what you wrote, I'm not going to address the points made and just write another essay' > Being contrary for the sake of being contrary is counterproductive and > indicates a subliminal wish that you hadn't endured that piercing or body > art when you should have been out becoming a statistic.... WTF ? > FWIW.... I spent many years on our local fire department.... Amongst other > titles and duties, I am certified as a rescue technician.... scraping people > like you up off the road .... scraping your victims up off the road... is > something I tried not taking home.... I can see where your attitude can take > you.... Too bad you can't. BLOOD ON THE HIGHWAY FLIMS! EMOTIONAL APPEALS. Sorry, your idea makes things WORSE. But here you go saying 'I'll be scraped off the road' the only way I'm getting scrapped off the road is if one of the poorly skilled drivers that the system you argue for created hits me when I'm bicycling. Or maybe you'll find a way to say I was 'going too fast' and blame me for it. > If you are truly looking out for number one... you have to look out for > every idiot out there.... And your idea of road safety breeds more idiots. > If you worry about top posting - block me now..... You're the one who appears rude and refusing to address the points made. Not to mention lazy and shoving the editing work on other people to clean up the quoted material. Oh wait, that's your whole point, enabling rude and lazy people by restricting and burdening responsible and courteous people. What, in Gods name, is your problem? From your statements, you feel that you do not need to be involved in your own safety.... and you even go as far as to call me down for considering my own safety.... Almost amusing..... you are indicating that you have never... not ever... not once.... made an error in judgement while driving ( isn't exceeding the speed limit an error in judgement?). I applaud you.... after all these years, I find moments where I wish I had done something different - een though nobody died and no metal got bent. At the same time, you are depending on absolute strangers doing the "right thing" so that you will be safe.... Whats magic about 85? Wasn't that the MPH noted in the original post? Forgive ME if I am mistaken.... but - oh well.... you will try to twist it... You are a most amazing young man.... you feel that you should be allowed to disregard the rules because the rest of us should be observing them.... You should be allowed to do 85 in a land where 85 isn't acceptable.... Nah... you aren't worth the effort... looking at your posts, I think you are twins.... There is no way on earth that one person could be that stupid.... You will obey the rules or you wont.... if you don't - shut the f.ck up.... >> Jumped down the OPs throat? I guess you haven't watched Rich before.... >> Rich [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > rude and lazy people by restricting and burdening responsible and > courteous people. > What, in Gods name, is your problem? What's yours? > From your statements, you feel that you do not need to be involved in your > own safety.... and you even go as far as to call me down for considering my > own safety.... I stated no such thing. That's your strawman. But top-posting helps you get away with such nonsense since your replies are disconnected from what I actually wrote. I stated that restricting the greater population to compensate for the stupid and rude only encourages stupid and rude behavior. When you tell people they have to go slow and yield 'for safety' to people doing stupid and dangerous things, some people begin to think they can do those stupid and dangerous moves and that the other people have to stop for them. Your teachings just make things worse, not better. > Almost amusing..... you are indicating that you have never... not ever... > not once.... made an error in judgement while driving ( isn't exceeding the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > depending on absolute strangers doing the "right thing" so that you will be > safe.... the vast majority of what I see on the road are not errors of judgement because someone just had that rare brain fart. They are the result of people who are too unconcerned to be bothered with what they are doing to other road users and intentional acts. Mere 'errors' are rather rare. Most are from a general disregard of other people on the road, an apparent belief that those others should compensate for them. The rest are people doing things outright intentionally. When someone revs up their vehicle's engine and cuts you off without even a turn signal, that wasn't an error. When you sound a horn when someone is moving into your lane, they hesitate, then jerk the wheel to move into your lane rapidly, that's not an error. When someone conga-lines a left turn through an intersection and then gives you the finger when you stop on a green not to hit them, that's not an error. When someone is going 25 in a 45 and you finally get a chance to pass and they are talking on a cell phone and then accelerate to block the pass, that is not an error. When someone just misses a light turning green, he'll accelerate well on a horn beep and maybe even apologize. When someone is operating with disregard to other road users he sits there longer and maybe flips off the people behind him. When someone just doesn't see a vehicle in lane he's moving into, upon hearing a horn backs off and aborts the lane change. The person who is doing it on purpose or has a disregard for other people (whom he expects to get out of his way) will continue the lane change. > Whats magic about 85? Wasn't that the MPH noted in the original post? > Forgive ME if I am mistaken.... but - oh well.... you will try to twist > it... You're the one acting like it's shocking and we have no idea what sort of road it was. > You are a most amazing young man.... you feel that you should be allowed to > disregard the rules because the rest of us should be observing them.... You > should be allowed to do 85 in a land where 85 isn't acceptable.... Look at all the things you assign me, then chastise me for. Here's a hint. I follow more rules than anyone I know of. WHy? Because I am one of those people whom, if I make the slightest error, I get punished for it. You know, those slight errors that are supposed to be forgive because they are honest mistakes? > Nah... you aren't worth the effort... looking at your posts, I think you are > twins.... There is no way on earth that one person could be that stupid.... Since you can't address my points, you resort to insults. > You will obey the rules or you wont.... if you don't - shut the f.ck up.... It would help if you could read and comprehend something above a childhood 'do as your told' mentality. I'm sorry that my questioning of the way things are is above and beyond your mental abilities. Sometimes you need to think for yourself, investigate for yourself, instead of believing what authority tells you without question. Furthermore, you need to control the knee-jerk to characterize anyone who questions the way those authorities do to avoid difficult questions and thoughts. Here ya go... is this top posted or bottom posted? If you (or anyone for that matter) is replying to a post, they should have spent the time to read the thread. Enclosing line after line of something we should have previously perused is nothing less than a waste of bandwidth and server storage. You have read my statements - I have read yours..... do we really need an echo? Does "I really find that those who excuse violations of the rules of right of way because the person with the right of way was exceeding some arbitrary speed value to be the pieces of work" look familiar? You were defending the motorcyclists "right" to exceed the speed limit because he should expect that everyone else is obeying the law to a "T". As previously stated.... Rich has an ulterior motive... he should be allowed to drive as fast as his car will go and the rest of us better get the f.ck out of his way.... You, young sir, are starting to sound like Rich... "They are the result of people who are too unconcerned to be bothered with what they are doing to other road users and intentional acts." Like travelling at 85 miles per hour on a road that has intersections? The idea behind rules of the road is that if we all follow them, we should have nearly zero fatalities.... in this case (and I'm sure we can agree on this) both drivers were involved in unsafe practices... If the driver that was supposedly texting (there were no survivors, remember?) had been paying close attention.... she/he may have seen the motorcycle... Had the motorcyclist been paying attention, he would have seen an intersection ahead and thought "Here is a place a car can pull out"... I only have about 6 months of scooter weather a year... when I ride, I am always aware of the fact that I can be hard to see.... I ride accordingly... Us old guys generally ride "two covering".... that means two fingers over the front brake lever. It's the "sensible" thing to do... So.... let's reduce this to it's basic formula.... I am wrong - yet I am alive.... The other biker was within his rights - and he isn't.... Way to go, Einstein... > Here ya go... is this top posted or bottom posted? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > server storage. You have read my statements - I have read yours..... do we > really need an echo? Your text indicates you either didn't or prefer to substitute your own for mine. I don't see you cleaning up the quoted material, like most top posters you leave it at the bottom for others to clean up, so you're wasting the bandwidth. I'm doing all the cleaning work. Oddly this goes along with the idea of passing driving burdens along to someone else. > Does "I really find that those who excuse violations of the rules of right > of > way because the person with the right of way was exceeding some > arbitrary speed value to be the pieces of work" look familiar? You were > defending the motorcyclists "right" to exceed the speed limit because he > should expect that everyone else is obeying the law to a "T". That's your strawman. What I wrote is that there is no speed slow enough to satisify that point of view. I went on to discuss how I've been told I was 'going to fast' when someone violated the rules of right of way when I was BICYCLING. > As previously stated.... Rich has an ulterior motive... he should be allowed > to drive as fast as his car will go and the rest of us better get the f.ck > out of his way.... > You, young sir, are starting to sound like Rich... No, you just can't deal with my actual argument so you want to deal with a different one. > The idea behind rules of the road is that if we all follow them, we should > have nearly zero fatalities.... in this case And speed would not matter because nobody would be trying to occupy the same space at the same time. > So.... let's reduce this to it's basic formula.... I am wrong - yet I am > alive.... The other biker was within his rights - and he isn't.... > Way to go, Einstein... I'm sorry your mind cannot comprehend anything beyond the level of blood on the highway films and authority telling you what to do. >> Here ya go... is this top posted or bottom posted? >> [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > I'm sorry your mind cannot comprehend anything beyond the level of blood > on the highway films and authority telling you what to do. Perhaps this will satisfy you? Whether the superfluous text is at the top or at the bottom or totally missing, you appear to be agitated... You also appear to have a preoccupation with "blood on the highway"... I simply made a statement to (hopefully) qualify my stance... I have scraped all manner of people up off the roads.... none of them, I believe, really wanted to be in that predicament though their actions placed them there. Another of your preoccupations involves "speed".... or, in references to me, LACK of speed. I do travel in excess of the posted limit at times... but I use my f.cking head when I do it. I don't recall saying we should creep along the highways and byways of our land (care to paste a quote?)... but using a healthy dose of common sense wouldn't hurt... My mind can comprehend many things.... that's one of the ways we have so that we can "get old". If the dead motorcyclist had been going at a reasonable rate of speed, he would have been able to comment on this thread... what part of dead are you underestimating? We are done....Please don't take any nice people with you when you realize that two wrongs don't make a right. > You also appear to have a preoccupation with "blood on the highway"... I > simply made a statement to (hopefully) qualify my stance... I have scraped > all manner of people up off the roads.... none of them, I believe, really > wanted to be in that predicament though their actions placed them there. Because you're using blood to justify 'go slow' emotionally instead of dealing with facts or logic because the facts point to right of way. You brought scraping people off the pavement into this thread, not me. > Another of your preoccupations involves "speed".... or, in references to me, > LACK of speed. I do travel in excess of the posted limit at times... but I > use my f.cking head when I do it. I don't recall saying we should creep > along the highways and byways of our land (care to paste a quote?)... but > using a healthy dose of common sense wouldn't hurt... You've practically accused me of street racing because I put the weight on right of way rules instead of speed limit signs. Speed limits that exist almost entirely for revenue purposes. > My mind can comprehend many things.... that's one of the ways we have so > that we can "get old". If the dead motorcyclist had been going at a > reasonable rate of speed, he would have been able to comment on this > thread... what part of dead are you underestimating? What part of dead are you underestimating to the motorcyclist that was killed near me who was going a reasonable speed? Someone pulled their car out right in front of him. I get to see the road side memorial every day on my way home from work. You could get offed in the same way going a nice reasonable speed because some driver did it close enough to you that you couldn't scrub off enough speed to live. Dead is dead. Unless you want to start crawling around at very very low speeds everywhere so that all resulting crashes are survivable and accept the overbearing enforcement that it will take to make it happen it's not going to work. Or alternatively accept a right of way model that aims to reduce crashing instead of severity of crashes. > We are done....Please don't take any nice people with you when you realize > that two wrongs don't make a right. Since I didn't argue any such thing, you might want to put your imgination in check. This whole thing is been about you deciding I was some crazy street racer to be put in his place or some other nonsense as you created and assigned to me one view after another in some emotional knee-jerk response. I am practically the slowest driver on the road in terms of speed. Acceleration is another story. PS. as expected you still left all the clean up work for me to do. > You've practically accused me of street racing because I put the weight > on right of way rules instead of speed limit signs. Speed limits that > exist almost entirely for revenue purposes. Fact: IF he was going 85, He probably totally screwed up his right of way because the person with *average* common sense figured there was plenty of room/time which if he'd been going 45, would have been totally accurate. >> You've practically accused me of street racing because I put the weight >> on right of way rules instead of speed limit signs. Speed limits that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > plenty of room/time which if he'd been going 45, would have been totally > accurate. assuming speed of other vehicles instead of estimating it is poor driving. BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". >>> You've practically accused me of street racing because I put the weight >>> on right of way rules instead of speed limit signs. Speed limits that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > assuming speed of other vehicles instead of estimating it is poor > driving. No it's not, driving 85 in a 45 in traffic is what's stupid. > BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be > dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". Cops are people, open to stupidity just like anyone else. >>>> You've practically accused me of street racing because I put the weight >>>> on right of way rules instead of speed limit signs. Speed limits that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > No it's not, Yes it is. Assuming another person's speed is a good way to get dead. > driving 85 in a 45 in traffic is what's stupid. I didn't say it wasn't. But it depends on what sort of 45 zone you're talking about. There are interstates and other limited acccess highways around here with 45mph speed limits. >> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be >> dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". > Cops are people, open to stupidity just like anyone else. but can get away with it. Assume that cop was going 45 and be hit by him and he'll make it your fault. >> driving 85 in a 45 in traffic is what's stupid. > > I didn't say it wasn't. But it depends on what sort of 45 zone you're > talking about. There are interstates and other limited acccess highways > around here with 45mph speed limits. Yeah, I've seen you. The guy that flipped over and rolled down the embankment because he lost control weaving in and out of traffic. If you're that much in a hurry to get there, why didn't you leave 5 minutes earlier? >>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd >>> be dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > but can get away with it. Assume that cop was going 45 and be hit by him > and he'll make it your fault. If you pull out into someone's path, it IS your fault if they have the right of way, no matter how fast they are going. >>> driving 85 in a 45 in traffic is what's stupid. >> >> I didn't say it wasn't. But it depends on what sort of 45 zone you're >> talking about. There are interstates and other limited acccess highways >> around here with 45mph speed limits. > Yeah, I've seen you. The guy that flipped over and rolled down the > embankment because he lost control weaving in and out of traffic. If > you're that much in a hurry to get there, why didn't you leave 5 minutes > earlier? *sigh* do you have an actual argument to make? It's really nice that you can come up with so many creative insults. BTW, I'm the guy you're tailgating because I'm only going the posted speed limit when the speed of traffic is 5-20mph faster. I've had drivers right on my rear bumper, very angry, as I've driven right past cops running radar. Cops do anything? of course not. The last extremely angry tailgater I had to deal with was a woman who was pissed off I was doing 35 in a 35 in the right lane in front of a police station. The reason I argue for properly set speed limits isn't because I want to go faster than you and what most people drive, it's just that I'd like to go as fast as 'everyone else' already does. Being tailgated practically every time I'm on the road isn't much fun. Simply put, there's nothing wrong with 85mph on most limited access highways in most modern passenger cars or motorcycles. >>>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd >>>> be dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> but can get away with it. Assume that cop was going 45 and be hit by him >> and he'll make it your fault. > If you pull out into someone's path, it IS your fault if they have the > right of way, no matter how fast they are going. Gee, that's what I've been arguing. So what's with the 'flipped over in the ditch' crap above? However I didn't say anything about a right of way violation to get hit by the cop. I wrote that one is hit by one, he'll make it your fault. You could have a green signal and he blew through the red at 85mph. You could get rear-ended while doing the posted speed limit in the right lane. Any number of ways. > If you pull out into someone's path, it IS your fault if they have the > right of way, no matter how fast they are going. Bullshit. Technically by the letter of the law that may be true, but if you are doing 85 in traffic where someone may pull out, you are equally stupid. No excuse.  Signature. Well, it was important enough for several folks to comment on. Fortunately, they were not burdened by Microsoft shitware which fails to properly implement a decade-old standard. - Sam >>>>> You've practically accused me of street racing because I put the weight >>>>> on right of way rules instead of speed limit signs. Speed limits that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Yes it is. Assuming another person's speed is a good way to get dead. No dumbass, that's how you decide when to go and when not to go. WTF would expect the idiot on the motorcycle to be going 85?? I might, some might but most people won't. Do not sit there and try to blame the moron at the stop sign for pulling out in from of an a.shole on a motorcycle who was driving WAY too fast. >> driving 85 in a 45 in traffic is what's stupid. > > I didn't say it wasn't. But it depends on what sort of 45 zone you're > talking about. There are interstates and other limited acccess > highways around here with 45mph speed limits. I've never seen an interstate with a 45MPH limit and it does not matter where he was he was going way over the limit. >>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be >>> dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > but can get away with it. Assume that cop was going 45 and be hit by him > and he'll make it your fault. Whatever, another cop hater in favor of motorcycle riders doing 85 with impunity..... Signature. Well, it was important enough for several folks to comment on. Fortunately, they were not burdened by Microsoft shitware which fails to properly implement a decade-old standard. - Sam >>>>>> You've practically accused me of street racing because I put the weight >>>>>> on right of way rules instead of speed limit signs. Speed limits that [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > moron at the stop sign for pulling out in from of an a.shole on a > motorcycle who was driving WAY too fast. Where was a stop sign mentioned? The OP wrote 'pulled out in front of'. For all we know this was off the shoulder of a rural interstate. Unlike you I am not making dumbass assumptions, so kindly apply your name calling to yourself. If you want to go around assuming everyone 'drives like you' you're going to end up dead in the USA. Oh, and as I stated earlier, I've had people scream at me that I was 'going WAY too fast' when I've been bicycling at or even well below the speed limit. When some moron doesn't see you or decides to run a stop sign, or whatever, his first reaction will not be to admit his error but to blame the other person. The knee-jerk in the 'speed kills' USA is to blame the other driver's speed. >>> driving 85 in a 45 in traffic is what's stupid. >> >> I didn't say it wasn't. But it depends on what sort of 45 zone you're >> talking about. There are interstates and other limited acccess >> highways around here with 45mph speed limits. > I've never seen an interstate with a 45MPH limit and it does not > matter where he was he was going way over the limit. Lucky you. Here's one: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=60606&sll=37.0625,-9 5.677068&sspn=41.089062,50.097656&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Chicago,+Cook,+Illinois+6060 6&ll=41.863125,-87.644409&spn=0.002281,0.003058&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.863002, -87.644405&panoid=yUMDueF-TobRX9-TpjVMeg&cbp=12,190.64,,1,4.45 http://tinyurl.com/ydd349p Now you have. >>>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be >>>> dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Whatever, another cop hater in favor of motorcycle riders doing 85 > with impunity..... I'm sorry you cannot grasp thought beyond such a childish and simplistic level. >>>>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be >>>>> dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I'm sorry you cannot grasp thought beyond such a childish and simplistic > level. Nice try. The looser was speeding. WAY to fast. He is as much at fault as the other person and no matter what you say nothing will absolve the speeders liability for driving at 85 MPH. Signature. Well, it was important enough for several folks to comment on. Fortunately, they were not burdened by Microsoft shitware which fails to properly implement a decade-old standard. - Sam >>>>>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be >>>>>> dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > fault as the other person and no matter what you say nothing will > absolve the speeders liability for driving at 85 MPH. I'm sorry, I don't have the psychic abilities you must have to be able to know all the details, including the 'stop sign'. Would you mind sharing a url to actual news story since you must have at least enough info to find one. My guess is you don't know any more than I do. You just see 85mph and knee-jerk. There's nothing magical about 85mph. It's just another speed. I've gone considerably faster than that on public roads, with and open to traffic, and LEGALLY*. It was the safest driving I've done in my life because the drivers I was sharing those roads (limited access highways) were competent. *Outside the USA, if you didn't figure it out. >>>>>>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be >>>>>>> dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > sharing a url to actual news story since you must have at least enough > info to find one. IDGAFRA about any details other than "he was going 85 MPH." He knew what he was doing and he got the prize. You play stupid games and sometimes you win stupid prizes. it was a motorcycle, they get not seen ALL the time, he was going 85, that did aggravated the not seen part. DING! We have a winner. >>>>>>>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be >>>>>>>> dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > ALL the time, he was going 85, that did aggravated the not seen part. > DING! We have a winner. So you do think 85mph is magically dangerous. This sort of sad, stupid, and dangerous american attitude needlessly kills people every year. A little reading material: http://www.amazon.com/American-Autobahn-Mark-Rask/dp/0966913604 >>>>>>>>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be >>>>>>>>> dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > A little reading material: > http://www.amazon.com/American-Autobahn-Mark-Rask/dp/0966913604 Obviously you are either a super god or a moron. 85MPH in traffic on a motorcycle is dangerous. If you don't believe me, ask the moron that did it. Oh yeah, he won the stupid award, you can't ask. DING! It's unanimous, 85 on a bike in traffic is dangerous.... Signature. Well, it was important enough for several folks to comment on. Fortunately, they were not burdened by Microsoft shitware which fails to properly implement a decade-old standard. - Sam >>>>>>>>>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. I'd be >>>>>>>>>> dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > did it. Oh yeah, he won the stupid award, you can't ask. DING! It's > unanimous, 85 on a bike in traffic is dangerous.... It's your idea that 85mph is stupid regardless of what sort of road it is or what the traffic conditions are (and probably vehicle) that is a display of ignorance. Maybe some day you'll get to experience roads not populated by morons and then be able to understand. Try traveling to Germany. You'll get to explain to them how their normal cruising speed (~90mph) on the rural autobahn is "stupid" with their lower fatality rate than the US interstates. Maybe you can do the american thing there and sit in the left lane to slow everyone else down... well until a cop comes along anyway. >> Obviously you are either a super god or a moron. 85MPH in traffic on >> a motorcycle is dangerous. If you don't believe me, ask the moron that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it is or what the traffic conditions are (and probably vehicle) that is > a display of ignorance. Give up. You've lost, you're wrong and you just keep digging. I think the dip that pulled out in front of the moron going 85 proves US Interstates would not be safer with no speed limits. >>> Obviously you are either a super god or a moron. 85MPH in traffic on >>> a motorcycle is dangerous. If you don't believe me, ask the moron that >>> did it. Oh yeah, he won the stupid award, you can't ask. DING! It's >>> unanimous, 85 on a bike in traffic is dangerous.... >> It's your idea that 85mph is stupid regardless of what sort of road >> it is or what the traffic conditions are (and probably vehicle) that is >> a display of ignorance. > > Give up. You've lost, you're wrong and you just keep digging. Translation: You have no real argument to present. This ought to make you soil your pants: http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/23/2356.asp http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/29/2941.asp > I > think the dip that pulled out in front of the moron going 85 proves US > Interstates would not be safer with no speed limits. Unlike you apparently, I don't believe americans to be genetically stupid, it's an educational issue. One that seems to fix itself once the speed limits are set correctly or removed as the case may be. http://www.motorists.org/pressreleases/home/montana-no-speed-limit-safety-paradox/ >>>> Obviously you are either a super god or a moron. 85MPH in traffic on >>>> a motorcycle is dangerous. If you don't believe me, ask the moron that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Translation: You have no real argument to present. No, the translation is "You just don't get it and never will." >>>>> Obviously you are either a super god or a moron. 85MPH in traffic on >>>>> a motorcycle is dangerous. If you don't believe me, ask the moron that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > No, the translation is "You just don't get it and never will." I've driven well over 85mph safely and legally on public roads so your typical american HS blood on the highway BS just won't work in the face of actual knowledge. US roads are full of control freaks and a-holes who endorse and often exist because of this stupid backwards system that sorta-kinda worked in the 1930s but has had absolutely no ability to scale. A system so screwed up that more and more micromanagement of people with the use of force and punishment is needed just to keep it from grinding to a halt. Driving should be enjoyed for what it is but instead it's got to be turned into a nightmare. People get so bored they start texting and doing other things. The other night I had to wake someone up with the horn that the light had turned green. What were they doing? Watching the television on top of the dashboard! Bottom lines.... "where" you drive "what" speed makes a difference... You state you have driven 85 mph 'legally'... that wont happen in Alberta... it probably wasn't happening where Riches drivel started... People are dead because of multiple mistakes... all of them preventable... I'm sure the dead motorcyclist is extremely happy that the other driver was doing something wrong TOO... Most days, I can't go far without having to adjust for someone elses error... I have to take defensive action because they pushed a light... or they didn't notice a signal... or they didn't stop when they should have... or they were going too fast for the conditions (going too fast for the conditions)... I said it once... I'll say it again... if people didn't make mistakes, there would be no accidents... If only one person makes a mistake and the other people that may be involved in this persons mistake are vigilant... problems can possibly be averted... This is one of those cases... Your logic is flawed... like Rich.. all you want to do is justify going too fast for existing conditions... have fun with it.... Hopefully, everyone else will be vigilant and will avoid compounding your mistake..... or, at least, you wont find a psychotic relative of one of your victims willing to cut your heart out and feed it to you.... Mistakes are there to be made... missing a sign, not seeing an oncoming (believe me.. a motorcyclist is often lost in "background clutter"), mistakes we all make every day and not only while driving.... Texting while driving... exceeding posted speed limits... exceeding logical speed limits (and this isn't just limited to weather conditions) are PLANNED.... You have some sort of devotion to "fast is good"..... Why? >>>>>> Obviously you are either a super god or a moron. 85MPH in traffic >>>>>> on [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > had turned green. What were they doing? Watching the television on top > of the dashboard! > I said it once... I'll say it again... if people didn't make mistakes, there > would be no accidents... If only one person makes a mistake and the other > people that may be involved in this persons mistake are vigilant... problems > can possibly be averted... This is one of those cases... You can either treat the cause or you can treat the symptoms. The north american way of ever more restriction, enforcement, and penalty to decrease the results, the symptoms of stupidity has been a failure. It continues to be a failure. All it does is create violators and a general disrespect of the rules of the road as a whole. > Your logic is flawed... like Rich.. all you want to do is justify going too > fast for existing conditions... have fun with it.... Um No. It's sad that you think that and can't think beyond that, but not surprising given the level of north american education and propoganda. > Hopefully, everyone > else will be vigilant and will avoid compounding your mistake..... or, at > least, you wont find a psychotic relative of one of your victims willing to > cut your heart out and feed it to you.... It seems that the only argument you and others have to make is one of trying to personally paint me as some speed racer killer. Sorry. I'm the slow poke you average drivers are pissed off at and tailgating. Why? Because of the enforcement and penalties you endorse, I'm driving that stupidly low speed limit while you average types drive speed limit +5 or 10 or 15 or whatever the cops generally allow typical average people most of the time on a given road. > Mistakes are there to be made... missing a sign, not seeing an oncoming > (believe me.. a motorcyclist is often lost in "background clutter"), > mistakes we all make every day and not only while driving.... Texting while > driving... exceeding posted speed limits... exceeding logical speed limits > (and this isn't just limited to weather conditions) are PLANNED.... Again, you can address the symptoms with laws, enforcement, and punishment and have anywhere from zero to negative results for safety but great profits and power for government or you can address the causes. You can keep dumbing things down and getting dumber drivers as a result. You can treat people like children and get a 'what-I-can-get-away-with' mentality, or you can treat them as adults and get a responsible mentality. Study after study proves the view I have is correct. I should I say I have the view that I have because study after study after study shows it to be the path to safety. There's a reason why Autobahn is safer than the interstates. There's a reason why interstates with increased speed limits (closer to the 85th percentile) see fewer collisions. In the end I have best engineering practice,studies, and data. You have insults, emotional appeals, and gore. > You have some sort of devotion to "fast is good"..... Why? No, that's your simplistic view you assign me because you can't comprehend anything more complicated. Why don't you start reading about 85th percentile method and get back to me. I'll repeat, I just want to go the same speed as 'everyone else' does. I'm tired of choosing between my safety and being ticketed. I'm tired of driving so slowly that my risk of collision is much higher than the minimum. But driving a speed that minimumizes risk is subject to fines and other penalties. http://www.bhspi.org/documents/55decade_chart-bhspi.gif http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html Your method has been tried for something like 80 years. It has failed. Better methods have been known for most if not all that time. Where they have been tried they've worked. Even in the USA. http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/a-montge.html My God..... didn't you read what you wrote? You can treat the cause or you can treat the symptom.... WOW - what a nugget of insight... Stupidity is the human way.... distractions... brain farts.... poor judgement.... inability to process multiple inputs in the required time allotment (read that as that split second before someones says "oh, f.ck").... These are the building blocks of humanity.... you imagine yourself as perfect.... you are human, therefore you are much less than perfect.... all of us are.... How would you treat this cause? Declare open season on speed limits and allow attrition to decide the winners and losers? At one point you state that you only want to go the same speed as everyone else.... We aren't talking about you (as mch as you might desire us to talk about you) - we are talking about some dead shmuck that used to ride a motorcycle at 85 MPH.... was he going the same speed as everyone else? I'm gonna top post this because it clouds your judgement.... >> I said it once... I'll say it again... if people didn't make mistakes, >> there [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > Where they have been tried they've worked. Even in the USA. > http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/a-montge.html > My God..... didn't you read what you wrote? You can treat the cause or you > can treat the symptom.... WOW - what a nugget of insight... You want everyone to go slow so the crashes don't hurt as much. I want to prevent the crashes. > Stupidity is the human way.... distractions... brain farts.... poor > judgement.... inability to process multiple inputs in the required time > allotment (read that as that split second before someones says "oh, > f.ck").... These are the building blocks of humanity.... you imagine > yourself as perfect.... you are human, therefore you are much less than > perfect.... all of us are.... When you dumb down the system you just get build better idiots. What's happened by using your system for decades? Have things improved? No, we get greater and greater idiotcy that results in more and more laws and more and more government management of our lives. Where's it going to stop? Viewscreens in our homes for our 'safety'? At what point do we stop expecting government to take care of us through the use of force on us? Of course there are 'mistakes', but if we are going to drive to tolerate all sorts of brain farts that might happen, you better want to drive at or below bicycling speeds at all times. Anyway, the data supports a view of more freedom and less overbearing control leads to greater safety. Experiments have even been done to remove traffic all control devices in some locations of great complexity and safety increased and congestion decreased. I don't believe that extreme will work everywhere, but the experiment does prove that the self-ordering works better than trying to control everything from central command. The more force that is applied the more out of control we can expect the roads to become. The worse safety will be. The more crashes there will be. I know you're not interested in reading any cites so I won't bother digging out any more. After 80 years or so, the speed-kills-control model is a failure. Problem is, that's been known on some level for like 60 years. > How would you treat this cause? Declare open season on speed limits and > allow attrition to decide the winners and losers? I see you still have no real argument to present. All speed limits could disappear tomorrow and actual road speeds will remain nearly unchanged. I'll speed up to the mean or slightly above it where maximum safety is so will other slow drivers. That's about all that would happen. A speeding ticket never discouraged someone who was actually reckless. > At one point you state that you only want to go the same speed as everyone > else.... We aren't talking about you (as mch as you might desire us to talk > about you) - we are talking about some dead shmuck that used to ride a > motorcycle at 85 MPH.... was he going the same speed as everyone else? Do I need to quote you? You were quite obvious. It's below. As to the 85mph motorcyclist mentioned by the OP. WE DO NOT KNOW if he was going the speed of traffic or not. But some people knee jerk when they hear '85mph'. Without the exact circumstances it's meaningless by itself. 55mph is more than enough to have killed him. If the driver pulled out 3 feet in front of him he's as good as dead at 40mph. > I'm gonna top post this because it clouds your judgement.... No, you're going to top post because you're lazy (want me to clean up the quoted material and you want what I wrote to be ignored and your version inserted in its place. >>> I said it once... I'll say it again... if people didn't make mistakes, >>> there [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] >> Where they have been tried they've worked. Even in the USA. >> http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/a-montge.html OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and attrition will decide who the good drivers are or aren't.... Unfortunately, the bad drivers are going to take some good drivers with them - right? But you don't need to worry because there's no way it can happen to you.... I have deleted all other text... because, by the time you get here, you should already know what all the other text is about... Top posting is "lazy".... that's a bit of a stretch, ain't it? > OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and attrition > will decide who the good drivers are or aren't.... I see you're totally incapable of rational discussion. Take a trip to Germany some time. Expand your horizons. Learn something. This isn't Germany... we do not have any European attitudes/background/upbringing... Most of all, automobile ownership per capita is highest in north America.... Here, almost everyone owns a vehicle... often, it is in less than ideal condition.... In Europe, not everyone owns a car... it is much more of a luxury to them than it is to us... additionally, vehicle maintenance is much more of an issue in Europe. I am honestly trying to rationalize your position... but you haven't offered an alternative... you haven't demonstrated a benefit... Many years ago, I met an old "finishing" carpenter.... older than dirt, this guy owned no power tools.... everything he did was by hand.... He would tell us that he made his mistakes 'slowly'... that way he could stop them before they happened.... With power tools, his mistakes happened far too fast... by the time he realize the mistake was happening, it was over and done... You aren't trying to justify safety.. you are trying to justify your desire to go faster than necessary.... his is why God built race tracks.... whoops... what was that about driveshaft loops and safety and all that other useless crap???? I'm not the guy with tetra ethyl lead in my e-mail address.... >> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and >> attrition [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Take a trip to Germany some time. Expand your horizons. Learn > something. > This isn't Germany... we do not have any European > attitudes/background/upbringing... Us stupid americans can't handle it? Is that what you're trying to say? > Most of all, automobile ownership per capita is highest in north America.... > Here, almost everyone owns a vehicle... often, it is in less than ideal > condition.... And you think that if the speed limit were set properly those people who own those POS cars would start doing 90mph because they are stupid americans? Setting everything to the lowest common demonator as has been done in the USA is clearly a failure. Ever growing disrespect for all rules of the road, crushing congestion, rudeness, frustration, danger, abuses of government power, and so on. For what? A stupid and pointless attempt to make people drive as slow as few think they should. It's failed. People choose their speed rather well as it turns out and that's why the 85th percentile method of setting a speed limit works over and over and over again for decades. > In Europe, not everyone owns a car... it is much more of a luxury to them > than it is to us... Dated view. > additionally, vehicle maintenance is much more of an issue in Europe. Heaven forbid people keep their vehicles in decent shape. > I am honestly trying to rationalize your position... but you haven't offered > an alternative... you haven't demonstrated a benefit... I have. I'm the one here who has presented data, references, etc. You choose to ignore it. Again, here's a book to read: http://www.amazon.com/American-Autobahn-Mark-Rask/dp/0966913604 Study after study shows that setting speed limits at the 85th percentile works. Here's a recent one: http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/29/2941.asp > Many years ago, I met an old "finishing" carpenter.... older than dirt, this > guy owned no power tools.... everything he did was by hand.... He would tell > us that he made his mistakes 'slowly'... that way he could stop them before > they happened.... With power tools, his mistakes happened far too fast... by > the time he realize the mistake was happening, it was over and done... That's nice. Maybe we should all go bicycle speeds? BTW, how do you treat bicyclists you catch up to? You change lanes? Wait behind them patiently? > You aren't trying to justify safety.. you are trying to justify your desire > to go faster than necessary.... his is why God built race tracks.... > whoops... what was that about driveshaft loops and safety and all that other > useless crap???? Sigh here you go again. In absence of any argument you decide once again to attack me personally. I'm the slow one on the road. I'm the guy drivers like you end up tailgating because I'm not doing 5-15 over like practically everyone else. I just want to go the speed of traffic legally. I want speed limits set to the engineering proven 85th percentile so that I don't have to choose between safety and legality. http://blog.motorists.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/85th-percentile-speed-limits.jpg I'm a bit tired of having to try and balance the risk of a ticket vs. the risk of a collision because a bunch of go slow religion types empower the government's desire for revenue. Something happened to me the other night. Mercedes driver passes me but does so with lots of room. The cop chasing him gets a little close. Here, you can see the video: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24179772@N05/4096360873/ Although the part of the cop getting close is off camera. but you can see me reacting to give him more space. Makes me feel nice and safe that cops put me at risk to fine someone who didn't even bother me. > I'm not the guy with tetra ethyl lead in my e-mail address.... What's a poisonous fuel additive have to do with speed? You're reaching. It's a bit of a self deprecating humor, but I don't expect you have the intelligence to get the joke. If you have such a bad view of anything remotely connected to an image of speed, maybe you should consider an old pinto instead of a mustang. >>> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and >>> attrition [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Take a trip to Germany some time. Expand your horizons. Learn >> something. So... just what is this "85th percentile"? is this the magic number for removing the human factor? >> This isn't Germany... we do not have any European >> attitudes/background/upbringing... [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] >>> Take a trip to Germany some time. Expand your horizons. Learn >>> something. > So... just what is this "85th percentile"? > > is this the magic number for removing the human factor? I've explained it a few times in this thread alone. Here's a paper on the topic of changing/setting speed limits: http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html TXDOT seems to have a decent layman's description of the 85th percentile method: http://onlinemanuals.txdot.gov/txdotmanuals/szn/determining_the_85th_percentile_ speed.htm >>> This isn't Germany... we do not have any European >>> attitudes/background/upbringing... [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] >>>> Take a trip to Germany some time. Expand your horizons. Learn >>>> something. > OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and attrition > will decide who the good drivers are or aren't.... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Top posting is "lazy".... that's a bit of a stretch, ain't it? Not lazy since even a POS like OE will start below the quoted text automatically, it's more "wrong, rude and inconsiderate" than anything else. It's also very inconvenient if you have to follow a long thread. >> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and >> attrition will decide who the good drivers are or aren't.... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > automatically, it's more "wrong, rude and inconsiderate" than anything > else. It's also very inconvenient if you have to follow a long thread. Nothing wrong with OE for text based newsgroups. That is just MS bashing. I do use Agent for binary groups as OE is crap for that purpose. I would prefer top posting when some a.s quotes a 10k line message then says some two word response at the bottom. Snipping is fundamental! >>> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and >>> attrition will decide who the good drivers are or aren't.... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > prefer top posting when some a.s quotes a 10k line message then says some > two word response at the bottom. Snipping is fundamental! Someone should not be making quotes that big. The server I use will not allow it, and OE is probably the biggest POS I can think of at the moment... I really, really like this kind of "discussion". As is true with most of us, I look at the "facts", understand them in my frame of reference, and draw a conclusion. If someone disagrees, it's OK: I reckon they have a different frame, and the chances are there aren't enough "facts" available to make a firm judgement, anyway; however, in this case ... >>>>>> You've practically accused me of street racing because I put >>>>>> the weight on right of way rules instead of speed limit signs. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>>>> figured there was plenty of room/time which if he'd been going >>>>> 45, would have been totally accurate. Here we have "Fact:" succeeded by "probably". Doesn't seem right to me, somehow. Maybe if it said, "It's a Fact that I think IF he was going 85 ... might have been totally accurate". If you are going to argue about particulars, be particularly careful to say what you mean. Otherwise, someone can come along and drag red herrings and straw men across your path and leave you bewildered and bemused. >>>> assuming speed of other vehicles instead of estimating it is poor >>>> driving. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to blame the moron at the stop sign for pulling out in from of an > a.shole on a motorcycle who was driving WAY too fast. Yes, there is dumbass, well distributed throughout the population. It isn't of much help to point it out in a "discussion" because most everyone knows who is and who isn't carrying a load of it, and the carriers are immune to correction, as they have been desensitized by myriad such pointings-out; a waste of bandwidth in any case. >>> driving 85 in a 45 in traffic is what's stupid. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I've never seen an interstate with a 45MPH limit and it does not > matter where he was he was going way over the limit. I traveled several miles on an interstate where the limit was 35, just a few weeks ago. Construction zone on I-10 south of Phoenix. I know that wasn't the kind of limit we're talking about, but there it was. If someone had been exceeding that limit by 40 MPH, no doubt s/he would be showing an aptitude for stupidity-induced behavior. >>>> BTW: I've seen cops do 90mph in a 45 zone. No lights. No sirens. >>>> I'd be dead if I assumed their speed with "average common sense". >> >>> Cops are people, open to stupidity just like anyone else. And without more information about the circumstances, I'd be likely to trust their judgement more readily than I'd trust any random motorcycle rider who might happen along. When I was a lad, there was a concept of "Last clear chance" when determining responsibility for any given accident. I believe the Lawyer Nation has overwhelmed the basic honesty and usefulness of the idea that the person who had the last clear chance to avoid the crash should be held to account for it. Looks to me as if the traffic-enterer was it, in this case: the motor-dumbass was committed well before the static driver moved the car. That's not to say the motor-dumbass had /no/ responsibility, but I believe the majority lay elsewhere: the basic rule is that if you aren't certain you can complete a maneuver safely, you shouldn't initiate it. If I were on a jury, had the motor-dumbass survived, I'd vote to convict him of some degree of murder. >> but can get away with it. Assume that cop was going 45 and be hit >> by him and he'll make it your fault. > > Whatever, another cop hater in favor of motorcycle riders doing > 85 with impunity..... I heard they took that stuff off the market. Never got to use any, myself. I did a dumbass thing in Texas a few weeks ago: drove my plain old 2008 GT/CS Mustang convertible automatic Overdrive car 4200 RPM in Overdrive. It was a less-than-totally dumbass act, as the road was cleared and there was a 20-or-so-car caravan (twenty seconds apart) and a couple of "sweep" vehicles, including one with linked-in radio communication. There are degrees of dumbass. It's way too easy in modern vehicles to get going very fast very quickly. Failure to make appropriate adjustments for conditions will winnow out the failures. Nobody said Darwin's dangerous idea wouldn't have costly consequences. Cheers! SignatureFrank ess On clarity: "What one conceives well can be stated with clarity and the words to say it come easily. We should all have that framed and displayed on our desks." -- the English High Court >Now the new law has passed. In the U.S. the other week, woman >(texting) pulls out into the street. Bike comes along doing 85mph, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >avoided it altogether. Cellphone-addicted MORONS need to be taught a >strong lesson. You can also add anyone using a car stereo, the ash tray or lighter, adjusting the rearview mirror, conversing with passengers, yelling at the kids in the back seat, watching for street names, checking out garage sales along the street, and the list goes on and on. Any of these things could result in an accident. Notice that I said could. A vehicle, be it 2 wheel or more (I have not seen a unicycle yet that can break the speed limits) doing 85mph where access to the roadway is not limited, is bound to be involved in an accident. In your cited case, the woman would likely have had sufficient time to cross or meld without incident had the MC not been covering so much distance in what? 1/4th or 1/3 the time a normal driver would have expected? Indeed, at 85mph, the other driver might not have seen the MC where the sound indicated it was. Think about that the next time you hear a siren coming. Anything which interferes with a drivers attention to driving is a liability, but excessive speed is stupidity looking for a place to crash. |
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