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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / August 2004Replace PCM module?? Help!!
Well to catch anyone up on my problem, here goes. Got in my car a few weeks ago, totally dead. Go to jump it, hear a whirring sound as soon as the jumper cables are connected, its my air pump. Ok, air pump stayed on for some reason, drained the battery. Couldnt jump the car cause other cars battery terminals were corroded. Try another car the next day, same thing, air pump started up immediately. Car wouldnt start up so tried reconnecting the cables. Air pump stopped, now the car wont start at all. Just cranks and cranks and wont turn over. So I take it to the Ford dealer. Has it for a day, cant find anything. Calls me, says they want to charge me $300 to go all through the electrical system. Ok. Calls me back today, didnt find anything. Not getting any codes, so they want to replace the PCM module for $800 and *see* if that does it. Told him i'd call him back. $800 is a damn big gamble in my poor little world. So basically arent they doing this only hoping to get codes, not fix the problem for something that probably isnt even the problem? I havent had this car very long so im not very knowledgable on it. If this happened to the old 5.0 ida fixed it in 2 hours. So what should I do? Any suggestions? Thanks, -Franklin '96 Cobra > Well to catch anyone up on my problem, here goes. Got in my car a few weeks > ago, totally dead. Go to jump it, hear a whirring sound as soon as the jumper [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > fixed it in 2 hours. So what should I do? Any suggestions? > Thanks, Wow. Was the service dude offering to lube you up with K&Y himself, 'cause for that price he should at least provide that service :). Replacement Ford PCM's, from Ford, for the '03 Cobra are $288 + $100 core charge and they can be cheaper from online discount Ford dealers. I can't imagine that the '96 PCM costs more, it should probably cost the same or less. You can swap it out yourself with hand tools and 10 minutes, and then the only thing they have to do is set up the PATS and that's electronic. About $500 in labor for this sounds like rape to me ;). For about $400 to $600 you can get a complete performance PCM replacement from Granatelli or Anderson Motorsports. However, I'm also fairly certain that there is very little difference between the SOHC PCM and the DOHC PCM. I know several guys who have done 2V to 4V swaps and they just re-tune the SOHC PCM. So, get the dealer to just find one that they can swap in for a test. All you want to know if the PCM is bad and you shouldn't be required to purchase one just to do the test. If you had to you could probably borrow one from another shop, or maybe even a salvage yard. Sorry about the issues, dude. Good luck :).  SignatureDan 2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things > > Well to catch anyone up on my problem, here goes. Got in my car a few > weeks [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Sorry about the issues, dude. Good luck :). Some can be... I used to work in the EEC/PCM rebuild dept. at a Ford plant. Some of the older ones had enough problems that they couldn't salvage them all. Some are hard to get a hold of and some are send in rebuild send back no cores available... I know someone right now getting one replaced in a F-350 diesel and he was quoted $1,200.00 for it by Ford. I think you need to find a different Ford store...... it doesn't take much to find out if we have spark fuel and correct valve actuation. Tell them to stop right now and ask your friends/relatives where they get good service. > Well to catch anyone up on my problem, here goes. Got in my car a few weeks > ago, totally dead. Go to jump it, hear a whirring sound as soon as the jumper [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > -Franklin > '96 Cobra >I think you need to find a different Ford store...... it doesn't take much >to find out if we have spark fuel and correct valve actuation. Tell them to >stop right now and ask your friends/relatives where they get good service. Thats the thing, I have no clue where to take this. I figured its some sort of electrical problem, that a Ford dealer would no best. Figured Joe's Garage down the street would be much more clueless. Basically it sounds like he's telling me the computer should be throwing a code and isnt. I have a feeling id pay $800 for this new computer and it's not the problem. Dammit.. dont know what to do. Im gonna call tomorrow and see if I can work something out.. pay for the labor on a computer swap to try it out. I'll gladly pay the money if it fixes the problem, but cant afford to throw $800 at something that "might" be the problem. -Franklin '96 Cobra I can "feel" your pain...... You need to know that there are many, many conditions on your '96 that wont generate codes.... nada, zip, nil simply because the PDM doesn't monitor these things. With no starts it is important to check the basics. Even if the problem is "no communication". it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine the problem..... WITHOUT "trying" a PCM. The tools for a car this old are readily available to independant shops and there is a very real chance that "Joes Place" can fix your problem. (Sorry, I have a real dim view of the 'Murican' version of free enterprise). Ford has dealers that they aren't proud of but it gives them market presence..... you may have one of those - their techs certainly make me embarassed (I've seen a lot of people that must be twins because one person couldn't be that stupid without help). Bottom line.... the PCM might be the root cause of your trouble BUT they should be able to figure this out WITHOUT shotgun diagnostics. Guys that operate like this are in over their heads......... There's a lot of difference between a guy with a toolbox and a technician. > >I think you need to find a different Ford store...... it doesn't take much > >to find out if we have spark fuel and correct valve actuation. Tell them to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -Franklin > '96 Cobra >From: "Jim Warman" > it doesn't take a rocket scientist to >determine the problem..... WITHOUT >"trying" a PCM. Apparantly we think alike, you rocket scientist analogy is the EXACT same thing I was thinking when I read Franklins problem. Whats next............ Mr. Franklin, if you purchase a new 04, we are pretty sure it will cure your problem ? :-) TIM -aka- MUSTTANGUY "at" AOL "dot" COM http://www.PonyPerformance.com Ok, just talked to the Tech thats workin on my car. He said when they checked the whole electrical system, the proper voltage isnt coming out of the computer, and its very hot to the touch. He says its definitely bad, not just a "we cant find the problem so were gonna replace the computer." Now he said its possible that one of the transistors that works the air pump may of damaged the computer or vice versa, but they wont find out until they get a fresh computer in there. I feel much better now. -Franklin '96 Cobra This may sound like a stupid suggestion, but have you tried push/pull starting it? Another thing, again may sound really stupid, but it happened to me. A few months ago my car suddenly would not start. Went out one morning after not driving her for a couple of months and turned the key (I joked "I wonder if she'll start") Well, she didn't. I was shocked, this car had never given me a moments worry. First we tried jumping her, it didn't help. She turned over very slowly it seemed. So $58 later a new Motorcraft battery was installed. Still, it sounded like the starter was dragging... $180 (if I remember correctly) later, some really skinned up knuckles and a half day wasted a new starter was installed. Turned the key, nothing. It was still dragging. Called the Ford dealership and made arrangements to bring her in. Called a tow truck, had her hauled 120 miles to the dealership piggyback They got her in while we were gone to lunch... ready for this? The reason she was not starting was both my stupidity and electronic failure. My stupidity was, each time I had turned the key on, out of habit, I clicked it on and waited till the fuel pump stopped. After this being done several times, the damn thing was flooded. Electrical was the initial reason it failed. The module in the steering column that is integrated with the PATS had a bad wire in it. There is a technical service bulletin on it. This part was replaced. There was a code identifying the part. While they were in there I had them replace the turn signal switch that had started acting up. Now, this is only MY experience but... after having been down the road with another dealership in California playing the guessing game with MY pocketbook, (Heritage Ford in Modesto, never ever take your car there) I would definitely not go by this guy's guessing game. I know it is frustrating but there has to be a way for you for get this figured out without having to break the bank. That's why I suggested push (pull or whatever) starting your car. It could be something as stupid as what happened to me... it flooded. Tt's hard to tell with these cars, they don't give the same signals .. like being the parent of an infant, they just don't tell you where it hurts. Best of luck, sorry this is so long. Kate | >I think you need to find a different Ford store...... it doesn't take much | >to find out if we have spark fuel and correct valve actuation. Tell them to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] | -Franklin | '96 Cobra "> > Basically it sounds like he's telling me the computer should be throwing a code > and isnt. I have a feeling id pay $800 for this new computer and it's not the > problem. Dammit.. dont know what to do. Im gonna call tomorrow and see if I > can work something out.. pay for the labor on a computer swap to try it out. > I'll gladly pay the money if it fixes the problem, but cant afford to throw > $800 at something that "might" be the problem. Hmm, this is very unusual for the PCM to go like that, did you jump someone or do any electrical work to the car? >Hmm, this is very unusual for the PCM to go like that, did you jump someone >or do any electrical work to the car? I tried to jump the car when it wouldnt start. No, no electrical work done. This all started with the air pump sucking the battery dry. Would the computer cause that? They are asking me to throw $800 just to find the real problem. Dammit.. this is bullshit. -Franklin '96 Cobra >I think you need to find a different Ford store...... it doesn't take much >to find out if we have spark fuel and correct valve actuation. Tell them to >stop right now and ask your friends/relatives where they get good service. Thats the thing, I have no clue where to take this. I figured its some sort of electrical problem, that a Ford dealer would know best. Figured Joe's Garage down the street would be much more clueless. Basically he's telling me the computer should be throwing a code and isnt. I have a feeling id pay $800 for this new computer and it's not the problem. Dammit.. dont know what to do. Im gonna call tomorrow and see if I can work something out.. pay for the labor on a computer swap to try it out. I'll gladly pay the money if it fixes the problem, but cant afford to throw $800 at something that "might" be the problem. -Franklin '96 Cobra >>I think you need to find a different Ford store...... it doesn't >>take much to find out if we have spark fuel and correct valve [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > -Franklin > '96 Cobra Franklin, you might try Plantation Ford on 441. They've done me right in the past; I think they're at least fair. Whatever you do, stay away from Sawgrass Ford. I've had more than one bad experience there. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >From: "Jim Warman" >I think you need to find a different Ford >store...... it doesn't take much >to find out if we have spark fuel and >correct valve actuation. I am with Jim 100% I couldn't ....scratch that ...... I would NOT ask my customer to purchase a part especially @ $800 that "may" fix the problem. To me that is a F-A-I-L-U-R-E at doing a reasonable job at diagnosing the problem. Does your car have the PATS system ? this was introduced in 96 so it may/may not have it, if it does this would be a possibility of your problem. Can the fuel pump be heard when the ignition is first turned on ? are they not getting spark ? Find someone who can diagnose the problem instead of throwing $800 parts at it in hopes of having it cure itself. TIM -aka- MUSTTANGUY "at" AOL "dot" COM http://www.PonyPerformance.com "> So I take it to the Ford dealer. Has it for a day, cant find anything. Calls > me, says they want to charge me $300 to go all through the electrical system. > Ok. Calls me back today, didnt find anything. Not getting any codes, so they [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > long so im not very knowledgable on it. If this happened to the old 5.0 ida > fixed it in 2 hours. So what should I do? Any suggestions? If the service tech is not getting any codes your ECM is fried! You have a couple of choices and depending on the model and availability of the part this will dictate price. You can pull out your ECM AKA PCM and send it to a shop that specializes in rebuilds and they will test the unit and rebuild new leads. This usually costs between $150 to $300 depending on how many leads are burned out. Or you can check with demo yards and see if any vehicles that match your year and model match. Be sure that it is identical, Ford has been known to change ECM specs during production years. Or have the dealer replace it. >If the service tech is not getting any codes your ECM is fried! See this is what I dont understand. Granted I dont know alot about this car yet, but isnt it possible to have a problem that might not be causing a code? Or should it always send some sort of "code?" -Franklin '96 Cobra Ok, just talked to the Tech thats workin on my car. He said when they checked the whole electrical system, the proper voltage isnt coming out of the computer, and its very hot to the touch. He says its definitely bad, not just a "we cant find the problem so were gonna replace the computer." Now he said its possible that one of the transistors that works the air pump may of damaged the computer or vice versa, but they wont find out until they get a fresh computer in there. I feel much better now. -Franklin '96 Cobra The ECM controls all engine functions from emission control to idle based on feedback from the various sensors. I'm worried about what you wrote just now in that the air pump transistor may have burned it out! If you install a new ECM and crank the key is he guaranteeing that the new ECM won't get damaged again? ECM's are designed to give feedback by sending codes to the tester. > >If the service tech is not getting any codes your ECM is fried! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -Franklin > '96 Cobra >If you install a new ECM and crank the key is he guaranteeing that the new >ECM won't get damaged again? He said I won't be charged again if it fries the new one. If it does happen, they will know why. -Franklin '96 Cobra How about a used one? Would it work? Kate | "> So I take it to the Ford dealer. Has it for a day, cant find anything. | Calls [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] | and model match. Be sure that it is identical, Ford has been known to change | ECM specs during production years. Or have the dealer replace it. |
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