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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / September 2004

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Putting car away for Winter

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Nick - 23 Sep 2004 13:00 GMT
Hi all,

I am putting my car away for Winter this weekend.  I was wondering if
there is anything that I should do to the car before I put it away.  It
is a 99 Mustang Convertable GT if that helps any.  I want to make sure
it is cared for and won't have many problems when I go to start it up
next March.

Any help is greatly apprciated.

Thanks,
Nick
SVTKate - 23 Sep 2004 14:36 GMT
That's depressing.
Where do you live Nick?

Kate
98 Cobra Drop Top

| Hi all,
|
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
| Thanks,
| Nick
Snow - 23 Sep 2004 14:38 GMT
Here is a list of things some of the classic car people do.
1) Completely wash the vehicle (don't forget the underside)
2) Visit your favorite "rust proofing" place rust check or ziebart
(optional)
3) Apply a coat of quality wax (some will even apply a second coat of wax
and let it haze, buff off in the spring)
4) Ensure fuel tank and other fluids are full, including a oil change
5) Some will use a fuel stabilizer (optional again)
6) Some use a engine storage fogging spray (optional item again)
7) Some will use jack stands, axle stands or blocks to raise the vehicle
just off the ground, I believe they do this so their tires don't go "square"
through the winter, completely optional.
8) Depending on where your storing your vehicle you may want to either place
a small container of mothballs or use a few cedar branches on the floor to
keep pests and possible rodents out. ( cedar branches work great to keep
mice out of couches and beds when closing the cottage for the winter)
9) Disconnect the battery or even completely remove it (remember don't store
a battery on a cement floor, the charge will drain out and the battery will
be pouched)
10) Finally cover vehicle with a cover (a made to fit cover or even some old
clean blankets will work)

There are probably a few other things you could do and probably most of
these I listed will be over kill but several classic gearheads I know follow
these steps more closely then they follow the news.

Snow...

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Thanks,
> Nick
67RMOD - 23 Sep 2004 17:15 GMT
> Here is a list of things some of the classic car people do.
> 1) Completely wash the vehicle (don't forget the underside)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> and let it haze, buff off in the spring)
> 4) Ensure fuel tank and other fluids are full, including a oil change

I usually leave it at about 1/3 tank, will tell you in a minute why

> 5) Some will use a fuel stabilizer (optional again)
> 6) Some use a engine storage fogging spray (optional item again)
> 7) Some will use jack stands, axle stands or blocks to raise the vehicle
> just off the ground, I believe they do this so their tires don't go "square"
> through the winter, completely optional.

Or, you can roll it back and forth 1/4 or 1/2 revolution once / week.
They can get out-of-round.  "Thup-thup-thup-thup", "aw, crap".

> 8) Depending on where your storing your vehicle you may want to either place
> a small container of mothballs or use a few cedar branches on the floor to
> keep pests and possible rodents out. ( cedar branches work great to keep
> mice out of couches and beds when closing the cottage for the winter)

I'll have to remember that.  Had a mouse family in my heater plenum.  I
turned on the heater, and got a faceful of mousie-smelling mousie nest.
 Ugh.  Pppptt.  Wonder what vermin just flew out of my vents and in my
face.

> 9) Disconnect the battery or even completely remove it (remember don't store
> a battery on a cement floor, the charge will drain out and the battery will
> be pouched)
> 10) Finally cover vehicle with a cover (a made to fit cover or even some old
> clean blankets will work)

11) If at all possible, start it and at least warm it up a bit once
every two weeks.  Does it have a mechanical oil pump?  If so, crank the
engine 5-10 sec beforehand.  This builds up a little oil pressure first
so it doesn't dry start.  Rev it a little bit after it's warm, up to
3000 or so and down several times, not just "stabbing" the gas, but
bringing it up and letting it down.  Doing all of this keeps everything
in better shape, the seals, belts, lines, the engine itself, and the
accessory pumps, electrical system, really, it does.  Run the a/c while
you're at it, so the compressor shaft seal doesn't dry up and fail,
requiring a new (usually expensive) compressor.  Cheapest maintenance
there is.
As my old shop teacher said, "the worst abuse is disuse."  If you must
store it, like I must store mine, firing and warming it with the above
steps will do it good.

I leave about 1/3 tank in mine so when I fire and warm it, I burn most
of this fuel off.  The gas will collect moisture and start to ... what,
I don't know the chemical process, get old and go bad after a while.  If
I run it out or almost out, before the season's over, I get my can and
put a few more gallons in it.  If not, I drive it straight to the
station, fill it and put a can of carb cleaner in it.  Then I spend the
next couple days putting miles on the car, paying attention to gauges,
seeing how it drives, making sure nothing's leaking and flexing things out.

It's a bummer when you park the car for the winter.  I do so at the
first threat of freeze (salt).  I bring it out only after a couple good
March rains have washed away all the salt and other hygroscopic stuff
they put on the roads.

> There are probably a few other things you could do and probably most of
> these I listed will be over kill but several classic gearheads I know follow
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>>Thanks,
>>Nick
Garth Almgren - 23 Sep 2004 19:10 GMT
> 11) If at all possible, start it and at least warm it up a bit once
> every two weeks.  Does it have a mechanical oil pump?  If so, crank the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> store it, like I must store mine, firing and warming it with the above
> steps will do it good.

No, no, no. According to Bill S. and many other car collectors, one of
the worst things for a stored car is to be started every so often if it
isn't warmed up *fully* by being driven.

An example of one of the most obvious problems that can arise:
condensation in the warm-but-not-hot exhaust will cause it to rust out
abnormally quickly.

If you're not going to drive it around for 10-15 miles and get it good
and hot, don't even bother. Just let her nap in peace.

Signature

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67RMOD - 23 Sep 2004 20:48 GMT
>> 11) If at all possible, start it and at least warm it up a bit once
>> every two weeks.  
>
> No, no, no. According to Bill S. and many other car collectors, one of
> the worst things for a stored car is to be started every so often if it
> isn't warmed up *fully* by being driven.

Really?  So it needs to get to operating temperature for this to be good
for it?

> An example of one of the most obvious problems that can arise:
> condensation in the warm-but-not-hot exhaust will cause it to rust out
> abnormally quickly.

Huh...

> If you're not going to drive it around for 10-15 miles and get it good
> and hot, don't even bother. Just let her nap in peace.

I always worried about the engine locking up or something, and the seals
and belts getting brittle and causing problems.

I stand corrected.  My dad owned a couple 66 Mustangs, and swears he
knows best on lots of stuff like this.  He's was an engineer by trade.
I listen to him, the old hot-rodder he is... but he was a hobbyist, like
me.  I just recall his being very insistent on this point when I got my
first 67, and I've heard it from others (like that shop teacher).  Well,
any recommendations for "pre-lubing" the motor before you crank it?
Maybe drain some oil and replace, or do an oil change before you take it
out?  Is that necessary?  Just wondering...
Snow - 24 Sep 2004 14:48 GMT
> > No, no, no. According to Bill S. and many other car collectors, one of
> > the worst things for a stored car is to be started every so often if it
> > isn't warmed up *fully* by being driven.
>
> Really?  So it needs to get to operating temperature for this to be good
> for it?

Yep, if all your going to do is turn the engine over, you may as well leave
it be.  You should always ensure the engine gets up to temperature before
turning it off.

> > An example of one of the most obvious problems that can arise:
> > condensation in the warm-but-not-hot exhaust will cause it to rust out
> > abnormally quickly.
>
> Huh...

If the exhaust (muffler) doesn't get hot/warm enough water vapour will form
and eventually prematurely rust it out, not something you really want
happening.

Snow...
Dana Myers - 26 Sep 2004 13:57 GMT
>>> 11) If at all possible, start it and at least warm it up a bit once
>>> every two weeks.  
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Really?  So it needs to get to operating temperature for this to be good
> for it?

Absolutely.  This is important to reduce the amount
of water that accumulates in the oil sump, as well.

Dana
Rein - 27 Sep 2004 00:06 GMT
>>> 11) If at all possible, start it and at least warm it up a bit once
>>> every two weeks.  
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Really?  So it needs to get to operating temperature for this to be good
>for it?

yes ! And operating temperature is not the same as the water
temperature gauge indicating warm. The oil takes longer to heat up and
not all (none?) mustangs have an oil-temp gauge.

>> An example of one of the most obvious problems that can arise:
>> condensation in the warm-but-not-hot exhaust will cause it to rust out
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>Maybe drain some oil and replace, or do an oil change before you take it
>out?  Is that necessary?  Just wondering...

nah, just replace the oil, take it out for a nice trip to heat it up
fully, then park it. Do not start it until you are actually going to
use it again.

Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying
Nick - 24 Sep 2004 15:35 GMT
> No, no, no. According to Bill S. and many other car collectors, one of
> the worst things for a stored car is to be started every so often if it
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> condensation in the warm-but-not-hot exhaust will cause it to rust out
> abnormally quickly.

I have never looked under my car, how far back does the stainless steel
exhaust pipes go?

> If you're not going to drive it around for 10-15 miles and get it good
> and hot, don't even bother. Just let her nap in peace.
SVTKate - 25 Sep 2004 16:31 GMT
It should go full length..
Unless it has been modified.

| > No, no, no. According to Bill S. and many other car collectors, one of
| > the worst things for a stored car is to be started every so often if it
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
| > If you're not going to drive it around for 10-15 miles and get it good
| > and hot, don't even bother. Just let her nap in peace.
B2723m - 23 Sep 2004 17:28 GMT
Trickle carge the disconnected battery.  Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer should be
added and run through the entire fuel system.  Fogging the engine only applies
to non mass air engines as it can damage the sensor.

I'm not a big fan of storing a car on jack stands.  Rather drive it onto a
couple of 1X6s to get the tires off the concrete.  Rolling the car forward and
backward a couple of times a month will help prevent flat spots.  The tires
should also be kept a max air pressure.  Use an outdoor car cover.

Most of the above comes from someone who put his early XKE in storage every
year and 'till it was sold after his death always came out of storage with out
problems.  Add this to what Snow said and there shouldn't be any problems come
Spring.

bradtx
V'ger - 23 Sep 2004 18:58 GMT
Instead of just a trickle charge, I would suggest using a "battery
manager"... which will not overcharge the battery. Not expensive. Even
have one which is "permanently" installed on the car battery, and has
a small plug (like headphone jack for a walkman, which plugs into the
unit. So anytime you put the car away, even for the night, the manager
keeps the battery in tip top shape.

"caramelize" is what it's called when it happens in a lawn mower....

>Trickle carge the disconnected battery.  Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer should be
>added and run through the entire fuel system.  Fogging the engine only applies
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>bradtx

Entering into the unknown, V'ger seeks information
used to maintain his Vintage Burgundy 1965 Ford
Mustang 2+2 w/289 ci 4v oem A Code V8, C4 Trans,
16x8" Vintage 40 wheels, with BF Goodrich gForce
T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )
Garth Almgren - 23 Sep 2004 19:14 GMT
> Instead of just a trickle charge, I would suggest using a "battery
> manager"... which will not overcharge the battery. Not expensive. Even
> have one which is "permanently" installed on the car battery, and has
> a small plug (like headphone jack for a walkman, which plugs into the
> unit. So anytime you put the car away, even for the night, the manager
> keeps the battery in tip top shape.

This is the one I got for my boat battery:
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=DEL-022-0150-DL

Works great, and BatteryMart is a great source for battery related stuff.

Signature

/     Garth - '83 GL V6stang Hatch <Former MW #7>     \

|      My V6stang: http://www.v6stang.com/v6stang     |
|  RAMFM Merchandise: http://www.cafeshops.com/ramfm  |
\  Mail pgp@v6stang.com for secure reply information  /
Rein - 27 Sep 2004 00:08 GMT
>> Instead of just a trickle charge, I would suggest using a "battery
>> manager"... which will not overcharge the battery. Not expensive. Even
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Works great, and BatteryMart is a great source for battery related stuff.

yup, I use a battery minder (same shop) for my motorcycle. Works
great.

Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying
67RMOD - 23 Sep 2004 20:40 GMT
> Instead of just a trickle charge, I would suggest using a "battery
> manager"... which will not overcharge the battery. Not expensive. Even
> have one which is "permanently" installed on the car battery, and has
> a small plug (like headphone jack for a walkman, which plugs into the
> unit. So anytime you put the car away, even for the night, the manager
> keeps the battery in tip top shape.

Good recommendation.  I actually forgot, I do put a two-amp charge on it
every now and then.  Hasn't hurt it yet, but I'll look into this too...

> "caramelize" is what it's called when it happens in a lawn mower....

Weird.  I think "onions" when I hear that word.
SVTKate - 24 Sep 2004 03:33 GMT
*snip**

| > "caramelize" is what it's called when it happens in a lawn mower....
|
| Weird.  I think "onions" when I hear that word.

LMAO! So do I !!

Kate
67RMOD - 24 Sep 2004 03:54 GMT
Never thought of another use for that word.  Why just lawn mowers?  Now
my curiosity is piqued

> *snip**
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Kate
V'ger - 24 Sep 2004 04:51 GMT
'cause lawnmower guys don't get the glory of car guys so they have to
use fancy words.... kinda like the air force.... Strategic Air Command
was missiles and bombers... nukers... pity the poor SAC guys who only
got to drive those oversized flying gas stations... where's the glory
of being able to wipe out countries when you just pump gas....

So, here's to all the lawn mower guys... 15 minutes of fame.....
LOL ; )

>Never thought of another use for that word.  Why just lawn mowers?  Now
>my curiosity is piqued
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>
>> Kate

Entering into the unknown, V'ger seeks information
used to maintain his Vintage Burgundy 1965 Ford
Mustang 2+2 w/289 ci 4v oem A Code V8, C4 Trans,
16x8" Vintage 40 wheels, with BF Goodrich gForce
T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )
Brad and Mia - 24 Sep 2004 09:20 GMT
> Here is a list of things some of the classic car people do.
> 1) Completely wash the vehicle (don't forget the underside)
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Snow...

Wow.  What a list.  I've been doing this for almost 20 years.  If you're
like me, you'll rip everything apart in the spring (wires, plugs, belts,
oils) and start anew.  Thus, I put a trickle charger on the battery
(sometimes) and leave it.  Period.  Don't touch it, don't start it, don't
f.ck with it.  Just leave it. 11 years now of cold storage on my GT and
many, many more on my old 67, and every spring they start like new and run
hard all summer long.

Brad

>> Hi all,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> Thanks,
>> Nick
67RMOD - 24 Sep 2004 17:32 GMT
>>Here is a list of things some of the classic car people do.
>>1) Completely wash the vehicle (don't forget the underside)
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> many, many more on my old 67, and every spring they start like new and run
> hard all summer long.

Seems to be a theme I'm hearing from experienced collectors here
I am (thankfully) changing my storage regimen.  I do that stuff every
Spring anyway.

> Brad
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>>Thanks,
>>>Nick
Rein - 27 Sep 2004 00:04 GMT
I want to add to that list;
-Do not start the engine once in a while to 'warm it up'
It won't warm up unless you let it run looooong and it's not needed at
all. You will only introduce moisture (condensation) inside the
exhaust and other parts of the engine. Just make sure to park it after
a nice long ride that fully warmed up the engine/exhaust. (10 miles or
more)
Just charge the battery once in a while or hook it up to a battery
minder or battery tender to keep it topped off.

>Here is a list of things some of the classic car people do.
>1) Completely wash the vehicle (don't forget the underside)
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>> Thanks,
>> Nick

Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying
pete - 25 Sep 2004 00:53 GMT
I like everything I've read but I fill the tank up and add stabil at the gas
station that way I can smell it before I get home. I just fill up the tires
newer radials don't have the same problem of flat spots as non-radials. I
also start it up every once in a while like when I'm clearing snow that way
I know it's nice and warm before I shut it off. Mine is an '01 so I leave
the battery in and hook up a battery minder to it.

A little off topic but I keep a bottle of stabil around so that every time I
get gas for the lawn equipment I just put some in the can. Don't have to do
it when I change from summer to winter or back.
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Thanks,
> Nick
V'ger - 25 Sep 2004 19:21 GMT
This subject is one of the reasons I am so glad to beliving in
California. I've lived in the northeas  have seen what that weather
can do to a  car. It's great to be able to enjoy mine year round.

>Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Thanks,
>Nick

Entering into the unknown, V'ger seeks information
used to maintain his Vintage Burgundy 1965 Ford
Mustang 2+2 w/289 ci 4v oem A Code V8, C4 Trans,
16x8" Vintage 40 wheels, with BF Goodrich gForce
T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )
SVTKate - 26 Sep 2004 13:39 GMT
Enjoying it at body shop ... for the last year?
*wink*

Kate

| This subject is one of the reasons I am so glad to beliving in
| California. I've lived in the northeas  have seen what that weather
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
| T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
| Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )
V'ger - 26 Sep 2004 19:38 GMT
This one, yes. But I sold my 66 Fastback last May. HA!

>Enjoying it at body shop ... for the last year?
>*wink*
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>| T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
>| Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )

Entering into the unknown, V'ger seeks information
used to maintain his Vintage Burgundy 1965 Ford
Mustang 2+2 w/289 ci 4v oem A Code V8, C4 Trans,
16x8" Vintage 40 wheels, with BF Goodrich gForce
T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )
dwight - 26 Sep 2004 13:45 GMT
> This subject is one of the reasons I am so glad to beliving in
> California. I've lived in the northeas  have seen what that weather
> can do to a  car. It's great to be able to enjoy mine year round.

Too true. Here's a look at what 11 years of winters can do to a car:
http://www.tfrog93.com/TFrog_11.jpg

dwight
V'ger - 26 Sep 2004 19:43 GMT
If it's been stored..... or it's made of plastic.....

Having lived in Maine, on Cape Cod, upstate NY, Minn, Alaska, Indiana,
just to name a few, I know what winters have done to my cars in those
areas. And that doesn't count the accidents when some nut case thinks
they can go just as fast on snow and ice as they can on clean dry....

>> This subject is one of the reasons I am so glad to beliving in
>> California. I've lived in the northeas  have seen what that weather
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>dwight

Entering into the unknown, V'ger seeks information
used to maintain his Vintage Burgundy 1965 Ford
Mustang 2+2 w/289 ci 4v oem A Code V8, C4 Trans,
16x8" Vintage 40 wheels, with BF Goodrich gForce
T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )
memyself&I - 27 Sep 2004 01:38 GMT
OK, I have stored my car (or shall I say that my dad did until he gave me
the car) as mentioned originally. The only difference, is that when I was
about to store it, I would change the tires and put back the old ones. that
way, I do not have to start it and let it warm up completely and move it
frwds or back. just let it sit with the old tires. so what if they get
square, in the spring, I take them off, put the good tires and voila!! As
for winter, I live in Quebec, Canada.... we get badly hit with snow, ice and
whatever else mother nature can think of!

> If it's been stored..... or it's made of plastic.....
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
> Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )
JS - 28 Sep 2004 03:58 GMT
I don't think that Dwight's stored his car one Philadelphia winter yet....
have 'ya Dwight?

Still not a risk I'm willing to take with my Cobra though... the salt on the
non-undercoated car and the idiots that you mention keep my snake locked
away when the snow flies...

JS

> If it's been stored..... or it's made of plastic.....
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
> Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )
dwight - 28 Sep 2004 12:29 GMT
>I don't think that Dwight's stored his car one Philadelphia winter yet....
>have 'ya Dwight?

Philly doesn't get the harsh winters. Just enough snow to make things
interesting and/or annoying. No, TFrog is getting ready for its 12th winter
right now. Just got another coat of Mother's pure carnuba.

> Still not a risk I'm willing to take with my Cobra though... the salt on
> the non-undercoated car and the idiots that you mention keep my snake
> locked away when the snow flies...

Shame. The cold air is the best time of year for an engine. The watchword of
the day is the same as always - separation. Keep plenty of distance between
cars and enjoy the extra friskiness of a cold winter's day.

dwight

>> If it's been stored..... or it's made of plastic.....
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>> T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
>> Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )
JS - 28 Sep 2004 23:12 GMT
> Philly doesn't get the harsh winters. Just enough snow to make things
> interesting and/or annoying. No, TFrog is getting ready for its 12th
> winter right now. Just got another coat of Mother's pure carnuba.

We (Pittsburgh) usually don't either, but it's the salt and the other idiots
that make the 30+ mile journey to work just a little too hairy for me to
take my snake through.

> Shame. The cold air is the best time of year for an engine. The watchword
> of the day is the same as always - separation. Keep plenty of distance
> between cars and enjoy the extra friskiness of a cold winter's day.

I run the Cobra well into the cold air... it's seen 30 degree days... but
few and far between.  I usually end up parking it near late October.. late
enough to have some fun cold nights and soon enough to keep the salt trucks
away.  I think I ran over the salt once.

I have driven 5.0 Mustangs in the winter, and this year should be ok as
well, as I just picked up a beater AWD Turbo Eclipse.  Won't slide around
quite like a Mustang, but is plenty frisky in its own right, and will do
just fine with thet added oxygen that comes with the cold air.  I'm looking
forward to an AWD drift in a snowy parking lot... just to see what it feels
like.

JS
Rein - 29 Sep 2004 00:43 GMT
>>I don't think that Dwight's stored his car one Philadelphia winter yet....
>>have 'ya Dwight?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>the day is the same as always - separation. Keep plenty of distance between
>cars and enjoy the extra friskiness of a cold winter's day.

the best ? extreme cold starts are the worst and it is where the
engine wears the most. And if your cooling system is kept up well it
won't make a difference in driving. I sold a 95GT with 92K on it that
had seen only az winters and summers (many many100+ days) The engine
was still in great shape. No oil use (no more than  a new one) no
smoke.. ran great.

Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying
JS - 29 Sep 2004 01:35 GMT
>>Shame. The cold air is the best time of year for an engine. The watchword
>>of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> was still in great shape. No oil use (no more than  a new one) no
> smoke.. ran great.

Extreme cold starts are definately harder on an engine, I agree.  However,
regardless of the cooling system, it's a fact that colder air is more dense,
thus having more oxygen.  The computer takes this into consideration and
adds more fuel, thus having more power.

Drag racers can back me up on this - the same car running two different
days, or even day into night, will turn different times just because of the
temperature - provided they can drive the car relatively consistantly.

JS
Rein - 30 Sep 2004 05:26 GMT
>>>Shame. The cold air is the best time of year for an engine. The watchword
>>>of
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>days, or even day into night, will turn different times just because of the
>temperature - provided they can drive the car relatively consistantly.

uh, weren't we talking about wear ? That's not the same as performance
is it ? I'm confused now.
Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying
Trebuchet - 30 Sep 2004 07:55 GMT
>>>>Shame. The cold air is the best time of year for an engine. The watchword
>>>>of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>>was still in great shape. No oil use (no more than  a new one) no
>>>smoke.. ran great.

I believe that 72F, 54% RH are the ideal operating conditions for a
gasoline engine.

>>Extreme cold starts are definately harder on an engine, I agree.  However,
>>regardless of the cooling system, it's a fact that colder air is more dense,
>>thus having more oxygen.  The computer takes this into consideration and
>>adds more fuel, thus having more power.

I run a carbutetor.  You have to adjust the mixture.  It takes some
knowledge to do this.  Colder air more dense, but not necessarily better
in terms of performance due to sub-optimal operating temperatures.  On
paper you have a point.  Otherwise, it's just not really ture...

>>Drag racers can back me up on this - the same car running two different
>>days, or even day into night, will turn different times just because of the
>>temperature - provided they can drive the car relatively consistantly.

Drag racers run in extremes, on the hot end, so 20 deg. will mean a lot
of HP to them, where it means very little to your computer-mixed SB.

> uh, weren't we talking about wear ? That's not the same as performance
> is it ? I'm confused now.

The two are related, but he was trying to tell you colder air provides
some sort of natural hyper-aspiration to a street vehicle.  The air is
more dense, but the engine does not run more efficiently.  Efficiency =
power.  You are getting half the story correct.  Lately, in the dry,
70-degree weather, my old Mustang is producing a few more HP than in the
heat or in the cold.  Like I said, (ceteris paribus), 72 deg., 54%
humidity.  There is slop in every number, but this has been proven
empirically.

> Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

Signature

Trebuchet

"Put her in that bucket."

http://web.grinnell.edu/techstudies/vick/treb.html

'67 Coupe, restored & modified

V'ger - 30 Sep 2004 20:32 GMT
You failed to include the parameters for altitude and UV.....

>>>>>Shame. The cold air is the best time of year for an engine. The watchword
>>>>>of
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
>> Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

Entering into the unknown, V'ger seeks information
used to maintain his Vintage Burgundy 1965 Ford
Mustang 2+2 w/289 ci 4v oem A Code V8, C4 Trans,
16x8" Vintage 40 wheels, with BF Goodrich gForce
T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang"
Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; )
 
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