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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / November 20042005 Butt-Ugly Mustang
Ford really helped GM by bringing out this ugly Mustang. The new Pontiac GTO greatly outclasses the retro Mustang. One Who Knows > Ford really helped GM by bringing out this ugly Mustang. The new Pontiac GTO greatly outclasses the retro Mustang. > > One Who Knows Come back at the end of the year when the year end sales figures are out, and tell us that again! I'd be willing to bet the Mustang out sells the GTO, just like it out sold the butt ugly Camaro. At least Ford stayed with the Mustang body lines, and not re-badge some other piece of crap to help sell them. Gary > Ford really helped GM by bringing out this ugly Mustang. The new Pontiac > GTO greatly outclasses the retro Mustang. > > One Who Knows troll... go back to alt.lifeless.f.cks lmao -- A happy kid behind the wheel of a 98 Mustang GT Cold air intake FRPP 3.73 gears Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter Full Boar turbo mufflers Hi-speed fan switch 255/60R-15 rear tires Subframe connectors > > Ford really helped GM by bringing out this ugly Mustang. The new Pontiac > > GTO greatly outclasses the retro Mustang. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > go back to alt.lifeless.f.cks Trolling? >Ford really helped GM by bringing out this ugly Mustang. The new Pontiac GTO greatly outclasses the retro Mustang. > >One Who Knows One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. > Ford really helped GM by bringing out this ugly Mustang. The new Pontiac GTO greatly outclasses the retro Mustang. > > One Who Knows One who just bought the WRONG make and model and is taking it out on the make and model they should have bought!!!! >One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new >Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. > >> Ford really helped GM by bringing out this ugly Mustang. The new Pontiac GTO greatly outclasses the retro Mustang. >> >> One Who Knows Entering into the unknown, V'ger seeks information used to maintain his Vintage Burgundy 1965 Ford Mustang 2+2 w/289 ci 4v oem A Code V8, C4 Trans, 16x8" Vintage 40 wheels, with BF Goodrich gForce T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang" Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; ) More likely. I think my comparison is silly. I should have thought of better examples. Oh well, I'm too apathetic to be very clever. I don't know about you, but I'm getting damned tired of all these "05 Mustang styling" threads. OK, we get it; some like it, some don't. Another loser tries to start a flame war. What fun. Hardware excluded, I still look at that silver GTO every single day when I pass that house, and think, "I hope they make it more EXCITING" next year. > One who just bought the WRONG make and model and is taking it out on > the make and model they should have bought!!!! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > T/A 225/50ZR16 tires, American Racing "Mustang" > Centercaps, and a whole lot of other stuff; ) >One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new >Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. No Way, Jose - I find 400HP way more exciting than 300HP. ;)  Signature"I believe that forgiving [terrorists] is God's function. Our job is to arrange the meeting." - Norman Schwartzkopf So then you've driven an 03 Cobra? That's not what we're talking about. And it's 390, anyway. Scott en Aztlán wrote: >>One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new >>Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. > > No Way, Jose - > > I find 400HP way more exciting than 300HP. ;) >>>One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new >>>Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. >> >> No Way, Jose - >> >> I find 400HP way more exciting than 300HP. ;) >So then you've driven an 03 Cobra? Um, yeah. ;) But you're confused - I'm not talking about the Cobra. >That's not what we're talking about. That's not what I'm talking about, either. > And it's 390, anyway. The 2005 GTO will have the new LS2 engine (same as the 2005 Corvette). It's rated at 400HP. I wonder if there's any correlation between your confusion over the topic and your top-posting... ;) Signature"I believe that forgiving [terrorists] is God's function. Our job is to arrange the meeting." - Norman Schwartzkopf Scott en Aztlán wrote: >>>>One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new >>>>Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > That's not what I'm talking about, either. I know. I'm being a sh.t. >> And it's 390, anyway. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I wonder if there's any correlation between your confusion over the > topic and your top-posting... ;) Naw. I've seen 350 hp for the GTO. New engine for new model year, I suppose. I post in-text, top and bottom, depending upon what I see first. >>>So then you've driven an 03 Cobra? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >I know. I'm being a sh.t. To what end? Signature"I believe that forgiving [terrorists] is God's function. Our job is to arrange the meeting." - Norman Schwartzkopf cott en Aztlán wrote: >>>>So then you've driven an 03 Cobra? >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > To what end? None in particular, and none personal. I was bored with the GTO vs. Mustang threads so I just decided to see where the repeated 400hp claim came from in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. You answered the question, so thanks. I'd be interested to see what 50 more hp will do for the Goat, because the 300-hp Mustang edges it in acceleration, both to 60 and 1/4-mole, and more than edges it in price and style IMO. I want to see it spiced up a bit stylistically before I get very excited. I've seen some protoypes with -some- promised, although they're typical "chop it/scoop it" Pontiac, so in some ways, the current GTO looks better. They can't very well go half-retro, and do something like get a hood tach and a wing and call it a Judge, so I dunno... they are cars aimed at the same market, but not quite the same set of tastes. > cott en Aztlán wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > more hp will do for the Goat, because the 300-hp Mustang edges it in > acceleration, both to 60 and 1/4-mole, QUARTER-MOLE! That was suppose to be MILE :) and more than edges it in price > and style IMO. I want to see it spiced up a bit stylistically before I > get very excited. I've seen some protoypes with -some- promised, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > tach and a wing and call it a Judge, so I dunno... they are cars aimed > at the same market, but not quite the same set of tastes. <snip> > QUARTER-MOLE! That was suppose to be MILE :) <snip> J, did you just finish watching Caddyshack or something? Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > J, did you just finish watching Caddyshack or something? No, I'd just seen Cindy Crawford somewhere. Got a friend whose name is in the (musical) credits of that movie! He still gets checks. > Joe > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies > Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC ;) Scott en Aztlán wrote: >>One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new >>Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. > > No Way, Jose - > > I find 400HP way more exciting than 300HP. ;) > One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new > Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. You rang? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone could prefer an '05 Mustang to a 400 hp, IRS Goat. Oh Mandy, you came and you gave without taking, but I sent you away. Oh, Mandy, you kissed me and stopped me from shaking, and I need you today. Oh, Mandy! 180 Out TS 28 I would. You couldn't give me a GTO, well I'd accept and then sell it. I'd take a 300 horse Mustang over a 400 horse "Grand Am" any day. It's not all about the horsepower, style has allot to do with my purchase decisions. I wouldn't even own a Corvette nor a Viper, neither one does a thing for me visually. On the other hand, I already own a 400 horse Mustang so a 400 horse GTO means nothing to me. SignatureMike Silver 10th Anniversary Cobra Coupe --- >> One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new >> Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. > > You rang? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone could prefer > an '05 Mustang to a 400 hp, IRS Goat. >>One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new >>Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. > > You rang? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone could prefer > an '05 Mustang to a 400 hp, IRS Goat. Well 180, I guess it just has to be a function of advancing age that makes you think that way. It must be more accepted as a "mature" ride at the club (golf, not dance). An independent rear suspension must be easier on the ol' back, and the bigger seats must be better for the widening posterior. ;) And where is the 400hp coming from? I thought it had 350, from the next-gen LS1... I don't doubt you, I've just always seen 350. http://www.pontiac.com/specs/specs_content_files/specs_overview.jsp?brand=gto&pa gename=home I saw the C&D Mustang GT road test today, and the 300-hp Mustang beats the GTO 0-60 and 1/4-mile. I'm not the stat geek type but the recent discussion came to mind as I waited for a haircut today. Yeah, that's just one thing it does better, but for all the hype... it disappointed me. The GTO should, IMO, beat the Mustang, especially considering the premium in price. The six-speed stick actually costs $700 MORE than the auto? What a rip, man!!! I know Tremecs aren't cheap (I have a TR-3550) but come ON!!! When did that ever happen? Read - "the auto is taxicab crap, and you have to pay guzzler tax, so you're screwed either way". Nice typical GM job there... > Oh Mandy, > you came and you gave without taking, > but I sent you away. > Oh, Mandy, > you kissed me and stopped me from shaking, > and I need you today. Oh, Mandy! You just couldn't resist, could you... NOR CAN I Her name is Lola, she was a showgirl But that was thirty years ago, when they used to have a show Now it's a disco, but not for Lola Still in the dress she used to wear, faded feathers in her hair She sits there so refined, and drinks herself half-blind She lost her youth and she lost her Tony Now she's lost her mind! At the Copa, Copacabana The hottest spot north of Havana At the Copa, Copacabana Music and passion were always the fashion At the Copa .... don't fall in love With the GTO... > 180 Out > TS 28 J, the GTO sports the LS2 for this year. Speaking of the LS2, it also found a new home in the SSR. Patrick, are you paying attention? Go read the mini-reviews in my SFIAS (South Florida International Auto Show) post. BTW, the car to buy is the Cadillac CTS-V. It's basically a 4-door Corvette. 1/10 of a second behind a Z06 in the 1/4 mile. 6-speed only. Rock on. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>>One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new >>>Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >> 180 Out >> TS 28 > J, the GTO sports the LS2 for this year. Speaking of the LS2, it also > found a new home in the SSR. Patrick, are you paying attention? Go > read the mini-reviews in my SFIAS (South Florida International Auto > Show) post. Yeah, I got Google-challenged there I guess. Thanks. > BTW, the car to buy is the Cadillac CTS-V. It's basically a 4-door > Corvette. 1/10 of a second behind a Z06 in the 1/4 mile. 6-speed > only. Rock on. WOO-HOO. Now THAT'S cool. 180? Thoughts? -I- can dig it. > Joe > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >>>180 Out >>>TS 28 > > J, the GTO sports the LS2 for this year. Speaking of the LS2, it also > > found a new home in the SSR. Patrick, are you paying attention? Go [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > WOO-HOO. Now THAT'S cool. 180? Thoughts? -I- can dig it. *gag*. I'm sorry, but here's an example of a butt-ugly body and with no style that a good marketing program and a good chassis and motor seem to be able sell. I see these slab-sided, fat-assed, angular nosed things all the time now and I still don't see what anyone likes. It's a flattened Aztek with no cladding! Here's to Caddy for being able sell an ugly vehicle when Pontiac can't :). I know, deep down, that it's a great car though. The CTS-V did really, really well in the Grand Am Cup Street Stock Series. There's a lot of good car in there with a ton of potential. But it's so gruesome I'll never even consider it. While the new GTO may be less unique looking across the GM platforms it's at least an aesthetic style :). [snippage] >> > J, the GTO sports the LS2 for this year. Speaking of the LS2, it >> > also found a new home in the SSR. Patrick, are you paying [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > [snippage] Dan, have you ever sat in one? Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>> > J, the GTO sports the LS2 for this year. Speaking of the LS2, it >>> > also found a new home in the SSR. Patrick, are you paying [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Dan, have you ever sat in one? Yes, I've driven one. As I said, there is a great car in there. The interior, other than lack of driver instrumentation, is very nice and the car was fun to drive. And then, just as I would every time I do with every car I own, I got out, took a few steps, turned around....and...blech. There's this really ugly, unstylish car sitting there. Honestly, Lingenfelter can't even make this car attractive and he puts a 510 bhp 427 in it. Fast, yes. Fun to drive, certainly. But a car is more than a power plant and chassis. Otherwise we'd all be driving raw sheet metal banged over the lightest tubular frame we could. They are important but it's also more than the interior. Other pople have to see the car on the road and the owner has to see it parked in the garage or on the car port. There are other cars out there with everything the CTS has *PLUS* better looks and style. Why waste a moment on this fast but ugly car? SignatureDan 2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things > J, the GTO sports the LS2 for this year. Speaking of the LS2, it also > found a new home in the SSR. Patrick, are you paying attention? GTOs, Mustangs, Caddy CTS-Vs...yeah, I'm paying attention. SSR has 390 horses this year, but with the tonnage it's pulling around it still needs about 100 more. > Go > read the mini-reviews in my SFIAS (South Florida International Auto > Show) post. > BTW, the car to buy is the Cadillac CTS-V. It's basically a 4-door > Corvette. 1/10 of a second behind a Z06 in the 1/4 mile. 6-speed > only. Rock on. Joe, The V is cool! But it's not that fast, Joe. After all, it's no where near as light as a Z06. The V runs around 13's at about 105 or so. The Z06 is knocking down low 12's at 1 high teens. > >>>One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new > >>>Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. Korn? Geeze... isn't that stuff about 10 years old? Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD >> J, the GTO sports the LS2 for this year. Speaking of the LS2, it >> also found a new home in the SSR. Patrick, are you paying [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > SSR has 390 horses this year, but with the tonnage it's pulling > around it still needs about 100 more. Anything needs about 100 more, but at least the SSR has what it should've had all along. I'm surprised that there was no fanfare - just product. But at least we can stop asking "Where's the beef?" >> Go >> read the mini-reviews in my SFIAS (South Florida International Auto [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > where near as light as a Z06. The V runs around 13's at about 105 > or so. The Z06 is knocking down low 12's at 1 high teens. Don't shoot the messgenger - I'm just reporting what I saw and heard at the show. Everything I've seen on the web says the CTS-V sports the LS6, but the one I saw at the show had the 6.0 LS2. Don't know what that's all about, but several people swore up and down that the V on the floor would run low-to-mid 12s. >> >>>One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the >> >>>new Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > '93 Cobra > '83 LTD At any rate, there's plenty of good ol' V8 power by all the makers to get excited about. And yes, an LS2 is definitely more exiting than a 4.6. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC Joe <avoidingspam@nospam.com> wrote in news:2vip5gF2kq5kiU1@uni- berlin.de: >>> J, the GTO sports the LS2 for this year. Speaking of the LS2, it >>> also found a new home in the SSR. Patrick, are you paying [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > what that's all about, but several people swore up and down that the V > on the floor would run low-to-mid 12s. OK, after some more research, here's the _real_ scoop on the CTS-V: It's got the LS6 motor (the sales droid _lied_!) and it'll run low 13s in the 1/4 mile. That's just a tick behind a "regular" 'Vette. Apologies for the misinformation. What I'd like to know now is how the new SSR stacks up against the Lightning. That should be interesting. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > Joe <avoidingspam@nospam.com> wrote in news:2vip5gF2kq5kiU1@uni- > berlin.de: [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > in the 1/4 mile. That's just a tick behind a "regular" 'Vette. > Apologies for the misinformation. Just some data for y'all. Cadillac was actually third in manufacturer points in the GS class of the Grand Am Cup Street Stock Series up until the final race (Lexus/California 250). This was being done by a three CTS-V's. They were third behind Porsche (mostly 996's) and Nissan (all 350Z's) ; Ford (SVT Cobra's - '95 and '00) was fourth. They lost the last race to Ford and wound up switching positions with Ford. The point is that the chassis may be heavy but the power plant, suspension, and balance are all right in there. They spent a lot of time up in front of the pack, in heads up road racing, hanging with some of the best performance cars on the market. It's where the SLP Firehawks and Camaros were a few years ago in this same series. Too bad it's too ugly to own. SignatureDan 2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things [little snip] > > SSR has 390 horses this year, but with the tonnage it's pulling > > around it still needs about 100 more. > Anything needs about 100 more, but at least the SSR has what it > should've had all along. I'm surprised that there was no fanfare - > just product. But at least we can stop asking "Where's the beef?" True enough. > >> BTW, the car to buy is the Cadillac CTS-V. It's basically a 4-door > >> Corvette. 1/10 of a second behind a Z06 in the 1/4 mile. 6-speed > >> only. Rock on. > > The V is cool! But it's not that fast, Joe. After all, it's no > > where near as light as a Z06. The V runs around 13's at about 105 > > or so. The Z06 is knocking down low 12's at 1 high teens. > Don't shoot the messgenger - I'm just reporting what I saw and heard > at the show. Everything I've seen on the web says the CTS-V sports > the LS6, but the one I saw at the show had the 6.0 LS2. Makes sense for them to switch the CTS-V to LS2 power. > Don't know > what that's all about, but several people swore up and down that the V > on the floor would run low-to-mid 12s. Next time ask them how a car that weighs a half ton more is going to run just as fast. > At any rate, there's plenty of good ol' V8 power by all the makers to > get excited about. And yes, an LS2 is definitely more exiting than a > 4.6. Agreed. And so is the Hemi. Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Once a GM executive called the original Mustang a "Hamtramck Falcon" ( which was not a compliment BTW) Needless to say, he wasn't laughing very long was he? If you don't like the styling then bully for you. It is purely subjective, like you arguing about what my favourite colour is. Regardless of whether you like it or not, it will still be my favourite colour now won't it? I for one am glad it isn't just another melted bar of soap like so many other "sport coupes". It actually looks like a Mustang. Just about any Japanese car's styling puts me to sleep. If I have one criticism to level at the new Mustang's styling is that they didn't put a "coke bottle" bulge on the rear fender. I like cars to have a delineation there to give them a broader shouldered look. Well Ford will need to do things in future years to "update(?)" the looks so maybe I'll get my wish. As for the GTO. Best Grand Am I've ever seen. Too bad no secretaries will buy one to keep the sales figures healthy. Maybe Pontiac can slag some tacky body cladding on it. Yawn. StuK > Ford really helped GM by bringing out this ugly Mustang. The new Pontiac GTO greatly outclasses the retro Mustang. > > One Who Knows Are you comparing apples to apples as far as year/model? I assume, like Road & Track in July, you would compare the top-performing Mustang with Pontiac's top performer: 2004 Mustang Cobra: 390 hp, 390 lbs torque, 3664 lbs 2004 Pontiac GTO: 350 hp, 365 lbs torque, 3725 lbs So... using the figures above, it is easy to see why Road & Track found the Mustang Cobra to be the better performer. Now, to compare next-gen cars, yeah, we can compare Fords' best, Mustang GT, to the GTO, or we can compare what we think the next Cobra will do. What's cool is the new GT is not far off on the 0-60 and 1/4 mile compared to last years' Cobra. Note: the 2005 GTO is not available until December/January. 2005 Mustang GT: 300hp,320lbs torque, 3483 lbs 2005 Pontiac GTO: 400hp, 400 lbs torque, 3765 lbs <-- projected numbers 2006 Mustang Cobra: 400 hp, 400 lbs torque, 3720 lbs <-- projected numbers So... if any of you have more accurate numbers, please share. It looks like these two top muscle cars from Ford & Pontiac will continue to have very similar performance. I, for one, feel like my 96 Mustang GT Convertible is ALREADY a pig as far as weight goes and geez these new cars are even HEAVIER! Latest rumor on the to be '07 SVT Cobra is it will use the 5.4L with the Whipple twin screw developed for the shelved next gen Lightning rated at 450 to 500 horses, YeeHaw! SignatureMike Silver 10th Anniversary Cobra Coupe --- > Are you comparing apples to apples as far as year/model? > I assume, like Road & Track in July, you would compare the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > 96 Mustang GT Convertible is ALREADY a pig as far as weight goes and > geez these new cars are even HEAVIER! >Latest rumor on the to be '07 SVT Cobra is it will use the 5.4L with the >Whipple twin screw developed for the shelved next gen Lightning rated at 450 >to 500 horses, YeeHaw! Assuming SVT survives until 2007... Signature"I believe that forgiving [terrorists] is God's function. Our job is to arrange the meeting." - Norman Schwartzkopf >>Latest rumor on the to be '07 SVT Cobra is it will use the 5.4L with the >>Whipple twin screw developed for the shelved next gen Lightning rated at >>450 >>to 500 horses, YeeHaw! > > Assuming SVT survives until 2007... Ford representation at SEMA seems to think they are still building a Cobra for 2006/7 even though Colletti is now running FRPP and the Ford GT program. The drvietrain is still not 100% set but the rest of the car is done. The FRPP representation is convinced it will be the the 24 valve, 5.4L, VVT, Whipple supercharged version. Given the talk of Ford wanting to consolidate motors across the top of line performance models, their clear statement that it won't be a V10, and the fact that the Lightning motor is ready to go, it sounds like this will be the one :). SignatureDan 2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things |
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