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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / November 2004The Good, The Bad And The Ugly From Shelby
First the bad news. It looks like Shelby's first new high-performance Ford will be a sport... I'm sorry, performance utility vehicle (PUV). The 550-horsepower vehicle will be based on a Ford Expedition, but will have the motor from the Ford GT supercar, 22-inch wheels, upgraded brakes/exhaust, a 5-speed automatic and a bunch of electronic gear. Okay, now here's the good. Looks like a F-150 version may follow. Which is good since Ford recently shelved the next generation Lightning pickup. (Hmmm...maybe this is why.) More good news. Shelby IS reportedly working on a new Shelby Mustang. Shelby says that a track version will be built first and will kick a bunch of a.s on the race track. Then a street version will follow. Cool, huh? Ready for the ugly? The high-performance Expedition will carry a price tag of... please sit down so you won't hurt yourself when you fall over... $110,000. <pass the smelling salts> So what does that mean for the Shelby F-150? I don't know, but more than 80 grand sounds like a possiblity. And the price tag on a new Shelby Mustang? Let's just say if you have to ask you probably won't be able to afford it. And if that ends up being the case, I hope everyone built rots away on a showroom floor. (Note to Shelby. High price supercars are understandable, but Mustangs are supposed to be afFORDable. So PLEASE price your version so that it's at least reachable for the common Joe.) Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD "Patrick" <NoOption5L@aol.com> wrote *snipped* | (Note to Shelby. High price supercars are understandable, but | Mustangs are supposed to be afFORDable. So PLEASE price your version [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | '93 Cobra | '83 LTD Yea... what he said. $110k for an Expedition... I think I'm gonna throw up. Kate well don't throw up in it. It will cost $25k to clean it up. lol ex cobra boy 97 convert deceased > "Patrick" <NoOption5L@aol.com> wrote > *snipped* [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Kate LOL!!! Yep, you're right! | well don't throw up in it. It will cost $25k to clean it up. lol | ex cobra boy 97 convert deceased [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] | > | > Kate > First the bad news. It looks like Shelby's first new high-performance > Ford will be a sport... I'm sorry, performance utility vehicle (PUV). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Which is good since Ford recently shelved the next generation > Lightning pickup. (Hmmm...maybe this is why.) It's probably part of the reason. I know someone who participated in an SVT briefing at SEMA and the story on the Lightning right now is that they are in the position of having to certifiy a different transmission for the power output they were looking for. The current auto tranny, according to this breifing, cannot reliably handle their test output. Whatever that may mean, whether or not that is just a smoke screen, Ford is said to have used it as a "final straw" to kill the Lightning. I suspect that between simple pulley swaps, towing heavy things, and smooth shifting, someone decided the 4R100 and/or 5R110 wouldn't take it long enough. I believe those are pretty damn stout trannys so that sounds like someone needed a reason and made one up but maybe those trannys aren't as strong as I thought. Anyway, add that information to this information, and I can see a bean counter nodding to let a higher priced, new unit take over the Lightning market for the moment. > More good news. Shelby IS reportedly working on a new Shelby Mustang. > Shelby says that a track version will be built first and will kick a > bunch of a.s on the race track. Then a street version will follow. > Cool, huh? This is great news. > Ready for the ugly? The high-performance Expedition will carry a > price tag of... please sit down so you won't hurt yourself when you [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Mustangs are supposed to be afFORDable. So PLEASE price your version > so that it's at least reachable for the common Joe.) The S197 based SVT Cobra is still on track and at this briefing it was stated quite clearly that it will have the 5.4L, twin screw, 3 valve, VVT motor from the Lightning project. The number announced was $5k over current MSRP for the SVT Cobra. That's still pretty pricey, less than the Shelby and Saleen stuff, but still pricey. On the other hand, SEMA had several S197 Mustang GTs sporting Whipple superchargers and Saleen is putting one on their S281 S/C. That means that we'll probably see high powered Mustang GTs on the street within a year. The Whipple kit for the '03 SVT Cobra is about $3K, add a couple of $K for additional tuning and fuel system parts and that's pretty affordable power, especially since this new motor seems to just love boost :). My point is, even if Shelby decides to be high, high end rather than affordable, there will still be plenty of low budget (relatively) alternatives in the main line. Also, FRPP is now selling the Whipple as an "upgrade" for '03/'04 SVT Cobras. It isn't a stretch that a version for the new 3V motor is right around the corner.  SignatureDan 2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things NoOption5L@aol.com (Patrick) wrote > First the bad news. It looks like Shelby's first new high-performance > Ford will be a sport... I'm sorry, performance utility vehicle (PUV). Pronounced "poof"? I certainly hope so. > The 550-horsepower vehicle will be based on a Ford Expedition, but > will have the motor from the Ford GT supercar, 22-inch wheels, > upgraded brakes/exhaust, a 5-speed automatic and a bunch of electronic > gear. 550 hp? Big fat hairy deal. Isn't there a Dodge pickup out there right now with about the same hp and better torque? > Okay, now here's the good. Looks like a F-150 version may follow. > Which is good since Ford recently shelved the next generation > Lightning pickup. (Hmmm...maybe this is why.) Who cares? > More good news. Shelby IS reportedly working on a new Shelby Mustang. > Shelby says that a track version will be built first and will kick a > bunch of a.s on the race track. Who's a.s? I seriously doubt that it'll run with the Viper, Vette, and 911 factory racers already out there. Then a street version will follow. > Cool, huh? > > Ready for the ugly? The high-performance Expedition will carry a > price tag of... please sit down so you won't hurt yourself when you > fall over... $110,000. <pass the smelling salts> Rappers, pimps and pushers, the line forms on the right. So what does that > mean for the Shelby F-150? I don't know, but more than 80 grand > sounds like a possiblity. Who cares? And the price tag on a new Shelby Mustang? > Let's just say if you have to ask you probably won't be able to afford > it. And if that ends up being the case, I hope everyone built rots > away on a showroom floor. It can't go for more than a standard Corvette or M3. Who would buy one? What a joke that would be. > (Note to Shelby. High price supercars are understandable, but > Mustangs are supposed to be afFORDable. So PLEASE price your version > so that it's at least reachable for the common Joe.) And what would that be? I'd say $35,000 tops. 180 Out TS 28 > And the price tag on a new Shelby Mustang? > > Let's just say if you have to ask you probably won't be able to afford > > it. And if that ends up being the case, I hope everyone built rots > > away on a showroom floor. > It can't go for more than a standard Corvette or M3. Who would buy > one? What a joke that would be. > > (Note to Shelby. High price supercars are understandable, but > > Mustangs are supposed to be afFORDable. So PLEASE price your version > > so that it's at least reachable for the common Joe.) > And what would that be? I'd say $35,000 tops. 180 Out, So then where would Ford's Cobra Mustang fit into the lineup? I say the next generation Cobra will likely fall into the $35K price range and the Shelby Mustang will be deep into the 40s or low 50s. Track versions will probably run in the 60s. And they'll sell everyone they make...watch. Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD >>And the price tag on a new Shelby Mustang? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>It can't go for more than a standard Corvette or M3. Who would buy >>one? What a joke that would be. I would. Standard Covettes or M3s... bor-ing. Standard is right. I don't care how you dress it up, Corvettes from 1984-present have been stylistic crap, and crap in other ways as well. An M3 is for the golf course crowd, again. > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > versions will probably run in the 60s. And they'll sell everyone they > make...watch. Exclusivity and "collectibility". Cool factor. Shelby will not live forever. Return on investment. Stick a blower in a Mustang if you want bang-for-buck. No production vehicle matched the 0-100-0 of the 427 Cobra for over 20 years. And no one yet has matched its intangibles. Hot feet at wrong angle, cramped cabin, weird gauges, backwards shifter, who cares? It's a freaking 427 COBRA. Shelby American never made "Mustangs", it made models of "GT" or "Cobra". No Dodge or Pickup or SUV ever deserved that name. The idea of a Shelby SUV makes me want to vomit. Porsche did it, and I did. Cayenne? What the hell is that hideous hunk of crap? No stupid K-car did, either, but they got it, sadly. WHY, why did he ever do that... but then again, those weren't Shelby American models. It was Carroll unfortunately him whoring himself out to the manufacturers to make a buck. The so-called 1984 GT-350 Mustang was a sad rip off, which ironically became collectible itself. > Patrick > '93 Cobra > '83 LTD > >>And the price tag on a new Shelby Mustang? > >>>Let's just say if you have to ask you probably won't be able to afford > >>>it. And if that ends up being the case, I hope everyone built rots > >>>away on a showroom floor. > >>It can't go for more than a standard Corvette or M3. Who would buy > >>one? What a joke that would be. > I would. Ahh, you're the reason we had $35K '95 Rs and nearly $50K 2000 Rs. > Standard Covettes or M3s... bor-ing. Standard is right. I > don't care how you dress it up, Corvettes from 1984-present have been > stylistic crap, and crap in other ways as well. Have you driven a 'Vette, lately? > M3 is for the golf course crowd, again. Hah...that's a laugh! Again, have you driven one, lately? > >>>(Note to Shelby. High price supercars are understandable, but > >>>Mustangs are supposed to be afFORDable. So PLEASE price your version > >>>so that it's at least reachable for the common Joe.) > >>And what would that be? I'd say $35,000 tops. > > 180 Out, > > So then where would Ford's Cobra Mustang fit into the lineup? I say > > the next generation Cobra will likely fall into the $35K price range > > and the Shelby Mustang will be deep into the 40s or low 50s. Track > > versions will probably run in the 60s. And they'll sell everyone they > > make...watch. > Exclusivity and "collectibility". Cool factor. And insanity. > Shelby will not live forever. Return on investment. No one average will be able to afford one. Anyone close to average will likely be around 50 years old. And by the time these folks see a return on their "investment", they'll have been dead for about 5 years. > Stick a blower in a Mustang if you want bang-for-buck. > No production vehicle matched the 0-100-0 of the 427 Cobra for over 20 > years. And no one yet has matched its intangibles. Hot feet at wrong > angle, cramped cabin, weird gauges, backwards shifter, who cares? It's > a freaking 427 COBRA. No doubt cool, but I'd bet if you gave 100 auto enthusiasts a 427 Cobra and told them to drive it every day, day in and day out, that within a year over 95 of them would be cursing the car and wanting to give it back for something different. > Shelby American never made "Mustangs", it made models of "GT" or "Cobra". That's right, they never made Mustangs they just tweaked 'em. > No Dodge or Pickup or SUV ever deserved that name. The idea of a Shelby > SUV makes me want to vomit. Porsche did it, and I did. Cayenne? What > the hell is that hideous hunk of crap? > No stupid K-car did, either, but they got it, sadly. WHY, why did he > ever do that... but then again, those weren't Shelby American models. And really, neither were the Shelby Mustangs built after '66. Ford's influence was all over the '67 and up models. > It was Carroll unfortunately him whoring himself out to the > manufacturers to make a buck. In hindsight yes, but back then they were pretty exciting. The little Shelbys always held their own against the Mustangs and Camaros. > The so-called 1984 GT-350 Mustang was a sad rip off, which ironically > became collectible itself. A low-volume car with a story always seems to be collectible. Just ask a Edsel owner... Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD >> Stick a blower in a Mustang if you want bang-for-buck. >> No production vehicle matched the 0-100-0 of the 427 Cobra for over 20 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > within a year over 95 of them would be cursing the car and wanting to > give it back for something different. It wouldn't take a year, here in the Northeast. The first rainy day... Do I HAVE to drive it every day? Couldn't it be my "garage queen", while TFrog takes the inclement weather? dwight > >> Stick a blower in a Mustang if you want bang-for-buck. > >> No production vehicle matched the 0-100-0 of the 427 Cobra for over 20 > >> years. And no one yet has matched its intangibles. Hot feet at wrong > >> angle, cramped cabin, weird gauges, backwards shifter, who cares? It's > >> a freaking 427 COBRA. > > No doubt cool, but I'd bet if you gave 100 auto enthusiasts a 427 > > Cobra and told them to drive it every day, day in and day out, that > > within a year over 95 of them would be cursing the car and wanting to > > give it back for something different. > It wouldn't take a year, here in the Northeast. The first rainy day... > Do I HAVE to drive it every day? Couldn't it be my "garage queen", while > TFrog takes the inclement weather? dwight, For a garage queen, a kit-car Cobra would almost be the ultimate... a T-bucket roadster would still edge it out because they're easier to work on. Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD >> For a garage queen, a kit-car Cobra would almost be the ultimate... a > T-bucket roadster would still edge it out because they're easier to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > '93 Cobra > '83 LTD Would you drive a T bucket from San Diego to Monterrey to see the Historic Races? Would you seek out all the best twisty roads on your route? I know a bunch of Cobra owners who would and do. Erich garage queens are not cars, they are art. Drive it like you stole it > >> For a garage queen, a kit-car Cobra would almost be the ultimate... a > > T-bucket roadster would still edge it out because they're easier to > > work on. > Would you drive a T bucket from San Diego to Monterrey to see the Historic > Races? Would you seek out all the best twisty roads on your route? > I know a bunch of Cobra owners who would and do. Erich, This is a very good point, and one I thought about before my post. Corner carving vs, even ligher weight and wrenchability. It's a tough call, a coin-flip decision. But for me, the coin landed on the T-bucket side two times out of three. So I'd be off to cruise night with a T-bucket... Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD >>>>Stick a blower in a Mustang if you want bang-for-buck. >>>>No production vehicle matched the 0-100-0 of the 427 Cobra for over 20 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>>within a year over 95 of them would be cursing the car and wanting to >>>give it back for something different. It's more than just cool. And if it doesn't have 18 cup holders, GPS or some other whiz-bang useless option these days, well, it doesn't seem to make the cut. My dad, the old hot rodder, forgets to lock my manual doors. He's only owned cars with power locks for -maybe- 10 years out of the 58 he's been driving. I wish Detroit could make ONE cool new performance car that didn't have to come with a trim level. I'd like a new GT, without traction control, etc. etc. ... just give me a stick, air conditioning, and a tach. A mechanically remote driver's side mirror is nice, but not necessary. I can read a map and don't need to have a latte everywhere I go. You performance drive with two hands. This is why Germans didn't understand, at first, all the accoutrements American cars had. "You don't drive with two hands?" To them, driving is an activity in and of itself, not just something you do whilst talking on the phone, emailing, eating, putting on your makeup, shaving or all of the above (depending upon what sort of day or night you're planning to have). I don't get it. I never will. It's forced me to buy older vehicles not so be-porked with all the gizmo crap. My brother-in-law has an SS Camaro. It's fast. Every single power accessory has failed him. The t-tops leak. All those buttons are creaky and broken, and all those electric motors have stopped working. You couldn't buy an SS without all that crap. Why? Marketing, bundling, bullshit creature comforts. Have we all gotten that soft? >>It wouldn't take a year, here in the Northeast. The first rainy day... I grew up in the Northeast, in CT in fact. I knew a guy who drove his 427 S/C as frequenty as he possibly could, bad knees and all. Oh, yes, out in the world, where bird crap and stray rocks and even bad drivers lurk. >>Do I HAVE to drive it every day? Couldn't it be my "garage queen", while >>TFrog takes the inclement weather? Garage queens are wastes of money unless they truly are in museums > dwight, > > For a garage queen, a kit-car Cobra would almost be the ultimate... a > T-bucket roadster would still edge it out because they're easier to > work on. Would you drive a T bucket from San Diego to Monterrey to see the Historic Races? Would you seek out all the best twisty roads on your route? I know a bunch of Cobra owners who would and do. THERE YOU GO! Erich garage queens are not cars, they are art. Drive it like you stole it Exactly. Thank you, Erich. > Patrick > '93 Cobra > '83 LTD >>>Do I HAVE to drive it every day? Couldn't it be my "garage queen", while >>>TFrog takes the inclement weather? > > Garage queens are wastes of money unless they truly are in museums Garage queen, only on rainy, sloppy days. There's no stinkin' way a Cobra would sit in my garage on a sunny day. Especially in the winter. dwight |
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