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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / March 2005SVT for 2005
OK, so here's the official stuff for 2005: http://www.svt.ford.com/newsSvtSleeves.asp Out of the whole page, the only hard product SVT is apparently offering for 2005 is a calendar. Or did I miss something? Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC That's correct. SVT will have no "product" in '05. In fact, it won't have a "product" through most of '06 either. This was made clear by Ford/SVT in several different venues :). The '07 Mustang SVT Cobra will be revealed at the NY Auto Show that starts on March 25th, 2005, although there is supposed to be a press day on the 23rd, I believe. Target Job 1 is mid '06 for MY '07. dwtalso@nuail.com wrote in news:1110383378.429253.26280 @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: > That's correct. SVT will have no "product" in '05. In fact, it won't > have a "product" through most of '06 either. This was made clear by > Ford/SVT in several different venues :). The '07 Mustang SVT Cobra will > be revealed at the NY Auto Show that starts on March 25th, 2005, > although there is supposed to be a press day on the 23rd, I believe. > Target Job 1 is mid '06 for MY '07. What a shame. Why in the world is Ford holding up the show until MY '07? Are they that crippled that they couldn't get it in showrooms for '06? And there's not one single sentence about it on their web site. Sounds to me like Ford doesn't want to commit to anything regarding the Cobra. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >dwtalso@nuail.com wrote in news:1110383378.429253.26280 >@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >site. Sounds to me like Ford doesn't want to commit to anything >regarding the Cobra. What I don't understand is why no new Lightening based on the new F-150 either. Doesn't make much sense to leave that area to Roush as well.  Signature"Maybe worshiping the cross and the painful death rather than the well lived life really has distorted our sense of who we are and what life is about." -- Author unkown >From what I have heard... they were not expecting the new F150 platform to weigh as much as it does... now with the RAM SRT10 out... Ford does not want a half-assed performance truck on the market. >>From what I have heard... they were not expecting the new F150 platform >to weigh as much as it does... now with the RAM SRT10 out... Ford does >not want a half-assed performance truck on the market. Well they don't have to have a half-assed performance truck on the market if they do it right. I just bought an `05 F-150 SXT regular cab with flareside bed and I am here to tell ya they did a wonderful job on this new generation of truck. It is the smoothest riding and quietest pickup I've ever owned, and I've always owned a Truck of one type or another for that past 3 decades. Hell they dam near got the empty bed bunny-hop out of it on concrete roads with expansion joints, which we unfortunately have a lot of in my area. I've started creating my own SVT (Steve Vehicles Team) out of it. I'm working from the outside in (appearance then performance) which is backwards from my normal approach, but it is a Harley Hauler so poser points are important :) Mostly using Roush parts & equipment from the Tejon model they built. Signature"Maybe worshiping the cross and the painful death rather than the well lived life really has distorted our sense of who we are and what life is about." -- Author unkown Well, the very first sentence on that site is: "As the Ford Special Vehicle Team closes the door on 2004 model-year sales, it now turns its full attention to the work of bringing to market an all-new generation of high-performance Ford vehicles, beginning with the next SVT Mustang Cobra." :). Granted, it's not details. However, I just got my SVT Enthusiast and Hua Thai-Tang provides an editorial that will pretty much make him a liar if an S197 SVT Mustang doesn't make it to market. Furthermore, the magazine explicitly states it will provide full coverage of the SVT Mustang Cobra reveal in NY in it's next issue. Ford is monolithic enough to stomp on their best marketing and make their own mouth-pieces look foolish, no doubt. I dunno, though, I am optomistic :). As for crippled, yeah, that might be kind of fair in some lights. Here's what I know. The Ford GT project was a monster. A real nasty one. At about the same time that it was creating GT, SVT was putting together the SVT Focus, the SVT Lightning on the new F-150 chassis, plus the S197 SVT Mustang. They got behind mainly because of the effort involved in Job 1 on the GT and the Focus PLUS pushing the federal certification of the modified F-150 and Mustang chassis. Added to that the F-150 tranny they planned to use wasn't holding up to the desired specific output and, while they do have options for that, they were in the position of having to re-cert the system late in the process. For the Mustang, the test mules have been on the road for more than two years. But there were at least three, and maybe four, different possible configurations for the power plant and there was a lot of effort in finding a replacement IRS. The new system is more complicated and I know that the powertrain control guys had a ton to do to get it all working with certain configurations (Note: at the last SEMA there were five supercharger options for the '05 Mustang GT, and I know for a fact that not one kit was actually ready for market because at that time tuning was still a problem :) ). It appears to me, as well, that Ford wanted mules with several hundred thousand miles on them to back up some of the decisions. They still didn't decide on the power plant until last December (2004). My opinion, pure speculation based on conversations with knowledgable folks and no real data, is that Ford bit off a huge chunk with the GT that was far, far bigger than they really want to admit. But it was mandated that it succeed so it did...and everything else got slipped to do it. dwtalso@nuail.com wrote in news:1110473667.724232.18340 @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > Well, the very first sentence on that site is: "As the Ford Special > Vehicle Team closes the door on 2004 model-year sales, it now turns its > full attention to the work of bringing to market an all-new generation > of high-performance Ford vehicles, beginning with the next SVT Mustang > Cobra." :). Right. But that's all they say. It's obvious that they haven't even updated the page for months. > Granted, it's not details. However, I just got my SVT Enthusiast and > Hua Thai-Tang provides an editorial that will pretty much make him a > liar if an S197 SVT Mustang doesn't make it to market. Does it say when it'll actually get there? > Furthermore, the > magazine explicitly states it will provide full coverage of the SVT > Mustang Cobra reveal in NY in it's next issue. OK, so somebody will do a photo shoot at the show and write up an article. It'll be interesting to see what's in it. > Ford is monolithic enough to stomp on their best marketing and make > their own mouth-pieces look foolish, no doubt. I dunno, though, I am > optomistic :). I try, but it's hard when Ford's cried wolf as much as they have. First, it was the Cobra's missing horsepower. Then the Lightning got yanked. Now no Cobra for several years. > As for crippled, yeah, that might be kind of fair in some lights. > Here's what I know. The Ford GT project was a monster. A real nasty [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > up some of the decisions. They still didn't decide on the power plant > until last December (2004). All in all, it adds up to poor planning and execution. Other makers, notably DC, have done more with less. > My opinion, pure speculation based on conversations with knowledgable > folks and no real data, is that Ford bit off a huge chunk with the GT > that was far, far bigger than they really want to admit. But it was > mandated that it succeed so it did...and everything else got slipped to > do it. I agree with you, but that's what's disappointing. Ford could be putting out some great vehicles if they'd get their in-house act together more. But based on their track record, they've got a lot to do. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > Does it say when it'll actually get there? I bet Ford is delaying the release of the Cobra for two years to give Mustang sales a boost just as interest in the car starts to fade some. This is what they did with the release of the Bullit, Mach etc. Since the car has received good press and sales are strong there is really no reason to release another model that would steal some of the thunder from the GT. In a couple years they will need the Cobra to give the Mustang lineup an injection of adrenaline. >> Does it say when it'll actually get there? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > need the Cobra to give the Mustang lineup an injection of > adrenaline. Could be, but (a) I don't think the Mustang will need any help with sales, and (b) I think the Cobra will sell regardless, as it's got its own hardcore audience. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see what transpires down the road apiece... Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>> Does it say when it'll actually get there? >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >own hardcore audience. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see >what transpires down the road apiece... Could be anybodies guess unless some here works for Ford in the strategic arena. Now my guess is that they will continue on in the vein of other cars within the Mustang linage. Will the Cobra come back? Yeah without a doubt. Whether or not it will follow previous incarnations is anybodies guess, but for some reason I doubt it. Maybe they will bring out a new niche model like the Mach 1 or maybe they will pick another specialty version of the Mustang. Perhaps a Boss or maybe a GT-350 using the 5.4 instead of the 4.6. I really do think they will look to the first generation of Mustangs for their inspiration given the current body style has gone retro. I really do think a GT-350 would fit right in with the current body style. Signature"Maybe worshiping the cross and the painful death rather than the well lived life really has distorted our sense of who we are and what life is about." -- Author unkown >>>> Does it say when it'll actually get there? >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > inspiration given the current body style has gone retro. I really do > think a GT-350 would fit right in with the current body style. Let's hope so. A re-chipped '05 with a few extra surprises would be very cool. In the meantime, I'm waiting to see the convertibles on the street. I'll bet some show up down here within days after they're released. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>>Does it say when it'll actually get there? >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > own hardcore audience. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see > what transpires down the road apiece... I'm just guessing as to Ford's thinking on the Cobra. Most auto makers delay the hot rod versions of their cars by several months to a few years. DC is doing it with the 300C, Chevy with the Z06 (damn I love that car!), Ford with the Cobra etc. I think it's driven more by marketing than a result of production issues. The Cobra enthusiasts will always be there and ready to buy. My guess is Ford is looking to get press from the Cobra and lure some potential buyers into the dealership that then opt for the less expensive GT or base model. I'm just glad they are still making noise about a new Cobra considering Ford's financial situation. :) >>>>Does it say when it'll actually get there? >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I love that car!), Ford with the Cobra etc. I think it's driven > more by marketing than a result of production issues. Agreed, except that Ford's the only maker that doesn't have a release date. > The Cobra enthusiasts will always be there and ready to buy. My > guess is Ford is looking to get press from the Cobra and lure some > potential buyers into the dealership that then opt for the less > expensive GT or base model. I'm just glad they are still making > noise about a new Cobra considering Ford's financial situation. :) I don't see that Ford's making the noise - it's coming from other sources. Ford's not "officially" pushing the new Cobra nearly enough, which leads me to believe that they're reserving their commitment to it. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>>>>Does it say when it'll actually get there? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > which leads me to believe that they're reserving their commitment to > it. I think they are too. The sad fact is that even though Ford has given us some very nice performing cars/trucks via SVT's efforts it really hasn't done anything to improve the companies overall bottom line. I just hope the bean counters don't start to get a toe hold in product development and take them back to mediocre performance cars like the pre '99 SN95 Mustangs. > Joe > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies > Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > I think they are too. The sad fact is that even though Ford has given > us some very nice performing cars/trucks via SVT's efforts it really > hasn't done anything to improve the companies overall bottom line. Because they don't build these cars to demand. They build them as collectables. And unless they can get many times what it cost them to build, they won't even be a blip on ford's bottom line. The cars are more or less advertising when built and sold like this, and not much more. If a cobra isn't going sell a large number of 6 cylinder base cars then ford will drop it IMO. If ford built these cars to demand maybe they could add to the bottom line. I don't really want to bid for a cobra, which is nothing more than the top level mustang configuration to satisify some dealer's greed. It's not some supercar that they can hand build only 12 a year. It's a somewhat improved version of a MASS PRODUCED CAR. 30 years from now we'll know if it's a collectable or not, I'm not buying a car to put in shrink wrap for 30 years anyway. >>I think they are too. The sad fact is that even though Ford has given >>us some very nice performing cars/trucks via SVT's efforts it really [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > CAR. 30 years from now we'll know if it's a collectable or not, I'm not > buying a car to put in shrink wrap for 30 years anyway. I think we are both saying the same thing. Unfortunately the SVT vehicles have not helped Ford sell cars. IMO, this gives more strength to the bean counters argument (assuming there is one) to ax the entire SVT concept (and the Cobra along with it). If that happens then Ford's performance cars will suffer, IMHO, of course. The existence of SVT and its influence on the DEW Mustang design team is likely the biggest reason that the current Mustang performs so well. My fear is the only type of performance cars Ford might be interested in developing in the future will be the mega dollar (i.e. highly profitable) supercars like the Ford GT. This could also lead to the eventual termination of the Mustang. Chevy did it to the Camaro and Ford could do it to the Mustang. >> In article <wZqdnceZ2N7deqzfRVn-qg@comcast.com>, Michael Johnson, >> PE wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > to the eventual termination of the Mustang. Chevy did it to the > Camaro and Ford could do it to the Mustang. I don't think the Mustang will be phased out anytime soon, as it's a decent money-maker for the beanies. However, I agree with everything else you guys have said. The niche for a new Cobra is getting tight. Nobody's going to want to pay big bucks for the same platform that the V6 is riding on (even with mega-horsepower), as it's got its own limitations. If SVT's going to survive, it's got to come out with a new car that will make people drool over it, and they've got to make a profit doing it. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>>In article <wZqdnceZ2N7deqzfRVn-qg@comcast.com>, Michael Johnson, >>>PE wrote: [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > going to survive, it's got to come out with a new car that will make > people drool over it, and they've got to make a profit doing it. IMO, the DEW Cobra has to be about the same level of improvement as the DEW GT is over the SN95 GT for about the same price as the SN95 Cobra. >>>>In article <wZqdnceZ2N7deqzfRVn-qg@comcast.com>, Michael Johnson, >>>>PE wrote: [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > the DEW GT is over the SN95 GT for about the same price as the SN95 > Cobra. Tough bill to fill. I hope they can do it. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >>>>>In article <wZqdnceZ2N7deqzfRVn-qg@comcast.com>, Michael Johnson, >>>>>PE wrote: [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Tough bill to fill. I hope they can do it. I think they can. At least they are starting out with a good chassis. If they keep the '03-'04 Cobra brakes, improve the handling over the GT, use the T-56, use the blown 4V 4.6L motor tweaked to 450 hp and design a decent IRS then I think it will be there. They should be able to keep the price about the same too. IMO, the '03-'04 Cobra drive train was so good that they could use it virtually unchanged except for the IRS. This saves a ton of money on R&D. <snip> >> Tough bill to fill. I hope they can do it. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >good that they could use it virtually unchanged except for the IRS. >This saves a ton of money on R&D. Why not step up to the 5.4 and load that baby up with some more torque to further differentiate it from the GT? Yeah HP is great, but I've always loved low-end torque for a good launch. It was one of the things I simply loved about my Goat and its 455 HO SD. A decent launch would catapult me half way down the track. I would consistently post lower MPH trap times yet get great overall ET compared to the guys with the small blocks. Left a lot of guys scratching their heads as to why they lost against me when I never even broke 100 mph but had a trap time of ~ 12 seconds. Signature"Maybe worshiping the cross and the painful death rather than the well lived life really has distorted our sense of who we are and what life is about." -- Author unkown > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > scratching their heads as to why they lost against me when I never > even broke 100 mph but had a trap time of ~ 12 seconds. They already have the low end torque with the supercharged 4.6L engine. Also, the 5.4L is wide at the top of the engine which makes for a multitude of packaging problems and is why it is mostly installed into trucks and SUV's. Plus, Ford can make more than enough hp/torque with the 4.6L engine. With the hp raised to 450 I would expect it to have 350-400 ft-lbs at 1,500-2,000 rpm's. The '03-'04 Cobras are dipping into the low 9's in the 1/4 mile with very few engine mods. Ford could get 450/450 hp/tq from it with little effort. I love low end torque too. Hence the reason I have a Kenne Bell blower on my '89 LX making 460 rwtq at 2,500 rpm. It makes for a fun ride. We'll see at the NYIAS but as of December, according to my sources, the powerplant choice was the 5.4L, 3V, VVT with a Whipple (Lysholm) huffer. I'm not betting my last dollar, it's Ford after all, but I think the probability is reasonably high that my information isn't too far off ;). Dan 2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things dwtalso@nuail.com wrote in news:1110666566.070195.23970 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > We'll see at the NYIAS but as of December, according to my sources, the > powerplant choice was the 5.4L, 3V, VVT with a Whipple (Lysholm) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 2003 Cobra convertible > With some stuff and things That's a killer setup. How about the rear? Still a live axle? And what about the tranny? And what'll it cost - around 45? Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >dwtalso@nuail.com wrote in news:1110666566.070195.23970 >@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >That's a killer setup. How about the rear? Still a live axle? And >what about the tranny? And what'll it cost - around 45? I think they need to be real careful about the pricing. With a base Corvette starting at $43,710 I would think that is the magic number that they simply cannot surpass. After that number people will begin to think twice about which of the two vehicles to purchase. Yeah there will always be fools with more money then sense, and young kids, but there is a sensitive price point that has to be considered. Even a base Corvette gives you the new LS2 6.0-liter small-block V8 that produces 400 horsepower and 400 lb-ft of torque which is the standard engine with either a 6-speed manual or a 5-speed automatic transmission. The prestige factor and other aspects of the car will make buy a Cobra, which is still just a Mustang after all, a very difficult decision if the price differential is not there to support the decision. I would say that if they bust the 40k barrier sales will not support production. Especially if it is just for 50 extra ponies which can be obtained from the Vette quite easily with a few aftermarket mods. Signature"Maybe worshiping the cross and the painful death rather than the well lived life really has distorted our sense of who we are and what life is about." -- Author unkown >>dwtalso@nuail.com wrote in news:1110666566.070195.23970 >>@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > ponies which can be obtained from the Vette quite easily with a few > aftermarket mods. Indeed. This is what I was saying in another post. There's a small window for the Cobra to be successful. If it costs too much, people will buy cars like the Corvette for less money. If it's too low on performance, people will opt for a GT and maybe re-chip it. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC <snip> >>>That's a killer setup. How about the rear? Still a live axle? And >>>what about the tranny? And what'll it cost - around 45? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >will buy cars like the Corvette for less money. If it's too low on >performance, people will opt for a GT and maybe re-chip it. Perhaps these are the issues that the folks at SVT are trying to come to grips with? Given the prices of vehicles these days, 40k+ pickups and such, exactly how GM is able to pull of the base Vette, which is a pretty damn nice car for ~ $44k continues to amaze me. YEah you can load it up with a shitload of goodies and push it over 60k, but what you get with a base pretty much meets all my basic needs. The new GT is cool, but why can't I choose to roll up my own windows or need 100+ combinations of my interior lights? If the really want to do something try and go the way the Z06 was originally supposed to be. Remember the concept of the Billy Bob Vette? All go and no show? How about a `Stang like that? Signature"Maybe worshiping the cross and the painful death rather than the well lived life really has distorted our sense of who we are and what life is about." -- Author unkown > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > be. Remember the concept of the Billy Bob Vette? All go and no show? > How about a `Stang like that? IMO the market for cars like that is tiny, and the profit margin is even smaller if it exists at all. Sure, there are enthusiasts that would snap that kind of a car right up, but there's no way in hell Ford (or any other maker) would make a profit on it. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC >> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:30:53 GMT, Joe <avoidingspam@nospam.com> >wrote [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] >would snap that kind of a car right up, but there's no way in hell >Ford (or any other maker) would make a profit on it. You know what freaked the living hell out of Ford? The fact that people bought Explorers. That SOB is full of profit margin. One doesn't have to make a "huge" profit on every vehicle sold, one just needs to have a Marque that keeps all of it's customer base happy and provides them with all of the vehicles that they desire. This is what keeps them loyal and coming back over & over again. Signature"Maybe worshiping the cross and the painful death rather than the well lived life really has distorted our sense of who we are and what life is about." -- Author unkown > We'll see at the NYIAS but as of December, according to my sources, the > powerplant choice was the 5.4L, 3V, VVT with a Whipple (Lysholm) > huffer. I'm not betting my last dollar, it's Ford after all, but I > think the probability is reasonably high that my information isn't too > far off ;). I hope you're right but I can't see Ford installing an engine in the Cobra that rivals the Ford GT's and undercut their future supercar lineup. I also think that engine would raise the cost of the Cobra to the mid to high $40k range. Too high IMO. dwtalso@nuail.com wrote in news:1110666566.070195.23970 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > We'll see at the NYIAS but as of December, according to my sources, the > powerplant choice was the 5.4L, 3V, VVT with a Whipple (Lysholm) > huffer. I'm not betting my last dollar, it's Ford after all, but I > think the probability is reasonably high that my information isn't too > far off ;). That's what I'm thinking. Except the three valves. Why not four? They should be able to squeeze around 500 horse out of it. Dan "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in news:uZWdnR8VorAlS6zfRVn- 2Q@comcast.com: > I'm just guessing as to Ford's thinking on the Cobra. Most auto makers > delay the hot rod versions of their cars by several months to a few > years. DC is doing it with the 300C, Chevy with the Z06 (damn I love > that car!), Ford with the Cobra etc. I think it's driven more by > marketing than a result of production issues. I don't think it's marketing so much. I think it's one of two things. 1.) They just need the time to work out what the car is going to be. or 2) SVT's role is going to be changing, in the sense that everything in the future coming out of SVT will wear a Shelby badge. If that ends up being the case, I would think the Cobra will cost well over 40k. In return you'd get a street legal 500hp road racer. Think Shelby GT-R. Then there will be a shelby badged truck, and at least another more affordable car. The span between the factory GT and the Shelby could be covered by Mach 1's, Boss, etc.. From what I've read SVT wasn't going to limit the price to under 40k. That only makes sense with a Shelby badged SCCA race car. It fits a niche, and doesn't have to compete in the market head to head with much else in the way of American cars. > The Cobra enthusiasts will always be there and ready to buy. My guess > is Ford is looking to get press from the Cobra and lure some potential > buyers into the dealership that then opt for the less expensive GT or > base model. I'm just glad they are still making noise about a new Cobra > considering Ford's financial situation. :) Agreed. > etc.. From what I've read SVT wasn't going to limit the price to under 40k. > That only makes sense with a Shelby badged SCCA race car. It fits a niche, > and doesn't have to compete in the market head to head with much else in > the way of American cars. The higher the price goes, the more a 'somewhat better' mustang isn't going to cut it IMO. What I mean by this, is the penalty paid for being based on the same platform as the basic V6 mustang. As the price extends beyond 40K, the more people start thinking about other alternatives, vettes, porsche, BMW, etc and so forth. One begins to ask the question, best new mustang or slightly used 911? If the price for these mustangs is going to be 40, 50, even pushing 60K, why get a car that is compromised in whatever for due to the needs of the V6 base car? Such a thing would work for the niche that wants such a mustang. But there is competition out there performance wise in the US market. > In article <Xns961690AD46F5Fdmurph740aolcom@130.133.1.4>, Dan Murphy > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > going to cut it IMO. What I mean by this, is the penalty paid for > being based on the same platform as the basic V6 mustang. Right, but SVT isn't ever going to be a high volume deal anyway. > As the price extends beyond 40K, the more people start thinking about > other alternatives, vettes, porsche, BMW, etc and so forth. One begins > to ask the question, best new mustang or slightly used 911? If the > price for these mustangs is going to be 40, 50, even pushing 60K, why > get a car that is compromised in whatever for due to the needs of the > V6 base car? Even at 60 grand what are you going to buy from Porsche? Or even BMW? Then you take it to an SCCA event and get lapped by a version of the car your secretary is driving. The new 'stang is already off to a good start. http://www.allpar.com/cars/lx/dodge-charger.html. Actually in recent years it's been Vipers, Cadillac, and Audis. BMW and Porsche are too expensive and too slow. The 3 series and smaller cars race in a different class than the Mustang. > Such a thing would work for the niche that wants such a mustang. But > there is competition out there performance wise in the US market. Not really. The Viper and Vette are special built platforms. The Mustang benefits from mass produced cheap components. I'm betting the new SVT will be in the ball park horse power wise but 20-30 grand less than a Viper or a C6 Vette. There is definitely a market for a car like that, especially with Shelby's name on it. Even if it does look like a secretary's 6 cylinder commuter car and doesn't handle as well. Dan > Even at 60 grand what are you going to buy from Porsche? Or even BMW? > Then you take it to an SCCA event and get lapped by a version of the car > your secretary is driving. The new 'stang is already off to a good start. I dunno about the new stang, but SN95 was between a rock and hard place wrt to SCCA solo 2 when I went to the training course and autoX a few years back. > http://www.allpar.com/cars/lx/dodge-charger.html. Actually in recent > years it's been Vipers, Cadillac, and Audis. BMW and Porsche are too > expensive and too slow. The 3 series and smaller cars race in a different > class than the Mustang. All I know is, the only other guy running a mustang besides me was giving his up for a porsche and he was already bending the rules with the mustang. Of course my experience is really very limited. >> Such a thing would work for the niche that wants such a mustang. But >> there is competition out there performance wise in the US market. > Not really. The Viper and Vette are special built platforms. The Mustang > benefits from mass produced cheap components. What's the benefit when ford is going to over charge, keep production down so dealers can gouge, and let the car's performance suffer because they won't put the money into it to make up for compromises done for the 6 cylinder base car, let alone the ones they can't do anything about. > I'm betting the new SVT > will be in the ball park horse power wise but 20-30 grand less than a > Viper or a C6 Vette. There is definitely a market for a car like that, > especially with Shelby's name on it. Even if it does look like a > secretary's 6 cylinder commuter car and doesn't handle as well. If they keep the price under 40K and do it right yes. But here are the rumors that it's going to shatter 40K, and not have IRS. Sales droid at the stealership was telling me 55K and no IRS. I don't think a couple suspension mods and more powerful mod motor are worth a 25 grand premium. Of course, the sales droid could be wrong, and I assumed he was until reading the same sort of thing here. >dwtalso@nuail.com wrote in news:1110383378.429253.26280 >@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >site. Sounds to me like Ford doesn't want to commit to anything >regarding the Cobra. If the GTs are selling as well as it sounds, there's no reason to up the ante at this point. What would they be competing with anyway? Of course it's just a rumor, but there's talk of a re-release of the Camaro around '06-'07, so then it would make sense to bring the guns to the table. -- lab~rat >:-) The less you care, the more it doesn't matter. >>dwtalso@nuail.com wrote in news:1110383378.429253.26280 >>@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > If the GTs are selling as well as it sounds, there's no reason to up > the ante at this point. What would they be competing with anyway? It's not a question of competition, it's a question of SVT's purpose on the planet. If they're not producing cars, then what are they doing? Just thinking about it? > Of course it's just a rumor, but there's talk of a re-release of the > Camaro around '06-'07, so then it would make sense to bring the guns [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > lab~rat >:-) > The less you care, the more it doesn't matter. Competition amongst makers is always good for us consumers. I just hope Ford steps up to the plate sooner than later. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC |
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