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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / April 2005GM: Kill Pontiac
Hi, I have started a blog devoted to the automotive industry. Please take a look. My latest article is "GM: Kill Pontiac". http://theautoprophet.blogspot.com/ >Hi, > >I have started a blog devoted to the automotive industry. Please take >a look. My latest article is "GM: Kill Pontiac". > >http://theautoprophet.blogspot.com/ Dear Prophet, your modesty provides an inspiration to us all. PS site is interesting. > I have started a blog devoted to the automotive industry. Please take > a look. My latest article is "GM: Kill Pontiac". > http://theautoprophet.blogspot.com/ Auto Phophet, Yours follows a similar theme as: http://autoextremist.com/index.shtml Click on Rants. Patrick '93 Cobra > Yours follows a similar theme as: > > http://autoextremist.com/index.shtml ... and autoextremist's writing is MUCH better ... >Hi, > >I have started a blog devoted to the automotive industry. Please take >a look. My latest article is "GM: Kill Pontiac". > >http://theautoprophet.blogspot.com/ Hell I say kill all of them and wrap it up into one big GM brand name with models having varying levels of trim. That is all that the Divisions really do anyhow. All the vehicles are basically the same with the exception of the Corvette and now the Caddy folks are knocking off a luxo-barge version of that.  Signature"Maybe worshiping the cross and the painful death rather than the well lived life really has distorted our sense of who we are and what life is about." -- Author unkown >>Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > with the exception of the Corvette and now the Caddy folks are > knocking off a luxo-barge version of that. The Hummers are still different from anything else in the GM lineup, at least for now. And I think the Saabs are too. I think some of the Caddy's are unique as well. But what difference does it make? The divisions are just marketing components with the cars made by manufacturing units seperate from the marketing units (it used to be that Chevy, Caddy, Pontiac, etc. divisions made their own cars). And, quite frankly, I don't see whaat is wrong with that. GM gets a lot more experience with the engineering and durability of particular engines, platforms, etc., cost reductions in manufacturing and engieering. These savings are passed on as lower costs to consumers. Otherwise, there is no way that GM could compete on cost, as they do. Consumers still get a good choice in a range of vehicles. And GM still makes money (occaisonally). This is one reason why cars last a lot longer than they used to. Ford and DC and the other car makers do the same thing across brands, as well. Jeff >>>Hi, >>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Jeff Looked at a Jaguar lately? Looks like a Taurus on steroids. Hmmm So it is all of them afterall ... The Hummer was origionally designed for the military that is why it is different. Give it a couple more years. Worship the car makers badge of your choice. My Ram, Town and Country, Mustang, Grand Prix, Envoy, and Jimmy all live here in perfect harmony. Dave Hummers that are sold at GM dealerships are not real Hummers. They are basically a Yukon with a different body. Frame, axles, trannys and engines are Just plain old Chevy. A real Hummer has only a 6.5 diesel with a THM400 trans with geared hubs. > >>>Hi, > >>> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Dave h1 = real hummer h2 = tahoe + body kit > Hummers that are sold at GM dealerships are not real Hummers. > They are basically a Yukon with a different body. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> >> Dave What the heck is an "H1" .C. Tee" <tedwards@LEAVE.ME.ALONEnl.rogers.com> wrote in message news:ycGdnXE0NfCzwNXfRVn-hg@rogers.com... > h1 = real hummer > h2 = tahoe + body kit [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > >> > >> Dave Yes you are right H1 is real hummer H2 is tahoe/yukon with different body. > What the heck is an "H1" > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > >> > > >> Dave Would you say Lincoln Mark VIII was simply a Ford Fairmont with a different body since they both originated from the Ford Fox chassis? ;) mike hunt > Yes you are right H1 is real hummer > H2 is tahoe/yukon with different body. > > > What the heck is an "H1" ----- Original Message ----- From: <IleneDover@mailcity.com> Newsgroups: alt.autos.pontiac,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,alt.autos.ford Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: Re: GM: Kill Pontiac > Would you say Lincoln Mark VIII was simply a Ford Fairmont with a > different body since they both originated from the Ford Fox > chassis? ;) In terms of capability that pretty much sums it up. The Mark VIII was a reduced function Fairmont with a more expensive looking interior, an improved ride, and less interior noise. Ed Ya right. LOL mike hunt > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <IleneDover@mailcity.com> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Ed So exactly what can a Lincoln Mark VIII do that a Fairmont could not do? I am not talking about costing more, looking nicer, or riding better, I am talking about real capability - hauling people and cargo, etc..... Ed > Ya right. LOL > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > > Ed No, the GM vehicles we are talking about are almost exactly the same underneath. Not talking about any ford product. Never mentioned Ford. That's a unibody car. We are talking about a vehicle with a real frame. The idea is that when someone uneducated in automotive construction techniques buys a Hummer and thinks they have some unstoppable military issued supertruck when in fact what they have is a rebodied Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon. > Would you say Lincoln Mark VIII was simply a Ford Fairmont with a > different body since they both originated from the Ford Fox [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > > > What the heck is an "H1" > Would you say Lincoln Mark VIII was simply a Ford Fairmont with a > different body since they both originated from the Ford Fox > chassis? ;) That would be a MK VII (7). I usually joke that mine is a Cougar with a gland problem. I have also referred to it as a Fairmont in disguise. ;) Did they do that good job of disguising the Mark VIII from the Fairmont by changing the outer body shell, interior, wheel base, microprocessor, engine, transmission, rear and the suspension? mike hunt > > Would you say Lincoln Mark VIII was simply a Ford Fairmont with a > > different body since they both originated from the Ford Fox > > chassis? ;) > > That would be a MK VII (7). I usually joke that mine is a Cougar with a gland > problem. I have also referred to it as a Fairmont in disguise. ;) > Did they do that good job of disguising the Mark VIII from the > Fairmont by changing the outer body shell, interior, wheel base, > microprocessor, engine, transmission, rear and the suspension? > > mike hunt I remember when Lee Iococca was speaking about one of the cars derived from a car that as derived from a car that was derived from a K-car platform is based on the K-car: It is like calling an ax "my grandfather's ax" after replacing the handle three times and the head twice. Jeff > Did they do that good job of disguising the Mark VIII from the > Fairmont by changing the outer body shell, interior, wheel base, > microprocessor, engine, transmission, rear and the suspension? > > mike hunt >> That would be a MK VII (7). I usually joke that mine is a Cougar with a gland >>problem. I have also referred to it as a Fairmont in disguise. ;) I don't believe the VIII is a Fox platform, Isn't it an MN12 platform? The VII is a Fox car. No, it's not just a warmed over Fairmont, but it is based on the same chassis. There's no denying that it's roots were the Fairmont/LTD/Mustang of the mid 80s. One could say they are siblings. The Cougar and Fairmont references are tongue in cheek references to it's lineage. The VIII and VIII were both built off the old fox chassis but hardly can one call them the same chassis any more than to say the H2 is a Yukon underneath, as the poster chose to imply mike hunt > > Did they do that good job of disguising the Mark VIII from the > > Fairmont by changing the outer body shell, interior, wheel base, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > could say they are siblings. > The Cougar and Fairmont references are tongue in cheek references to it's lineage. > The VIII and VIII were both built off the old fox chassis but > hardly can one call them the same chassis any more than to say > the H2 is a Yukon underneath, as the poster chose to imply The Mark VIII is an MN12 variation, not a Fox relation at all. Ed The is technically correct, but the MN12 was it self a variation of the Fox ;) mike hunt > > The VIII and VIII were both built off the old fox chassis but > > hardly can one call them the same chassis any more than to say [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ed > The is technically correct, but the MN12 was it self a variation > of the Fox ;) > > mike hunt They share nothing of consequence. You seem to think if they share a bolt, then they are variations. I suppose using your twisted logic, the new Mustang is a variation of the Corvette chassis (which is just about as true as some of your ridiculous claims). Ed The new caddy shares the Corvette chassis not the Mustang. The Volvo 90, Freestyle and 500 have little in common but they too share the same basic chassis as well You are free to believe what ever you wish. In sure they must have some fasteners in common. I know my 2005 Mustang GT convertible has the same door handles as my 2005 Lincoln LS. But of course that has nothing to do with the basic chassis they share LOL mike hunt > > The is technically correct, but the MN12 was it self a variation > > of the Fox ;) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ed > You are free to believe what ever you wish. In sure they must > have some fasteners in common. I know my 2005 Mustang GT > convertible has the same door handles as my 2005 Lincoln LS. But > of course that has nothing to do with the basic chassis they > share LOL Sigh as you like it. But when they don't even share basic suspension designs, I still say it is wrong to claim they are variations of the same chassis. Just becasue at some point they thought about using the LS chassis, doesn't mean the Mustang chassis is a variations of that design. Over the past 4 years stories have claimed all sort of things. In the end almost nothing is shared (chassis wise). If you don't even share suspension locating points, you aren't sharing much. Sharing the door handles is probably more significant than the chassis parts they do actually share. If you could point to one shared suspension compoennt (not including fasteners) I might feel differently. Ed I have tried to explain to you on several occasions what a basic chassis is and its hard points. I told you why manufactures try to make as many vehicles off that chassis as possible. I told you how a vehicles based on that chassis can be so different, when used to build another vehicles. If you want to continue to believe what you wish that is your prerogative. I'll not try again. mike hunt > > You are free to believe what ever you wish. In sure they must > > have some fasteners in common. I know my 2005 Mustang GT [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Ed > I have tried to explain to you on several occasions what a basic > chassis is and its hard points. I told you why manufactures try [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > believe what you wish that is your prerogative. I'll not try > again. Of course the fact that you are wrong never entered your mind. You keep repeating old information. I have no idea why. Ed > I don't believe the VIII is a Fox platform, Isn't it an MN12 platform? The > VII is a Fox car. I say you're correct. Patrick '93 Cobra Partially correct the Mark VIII chassis, like the VII, was developed from the Fox. mike hunt > > I don't believe the VIII is a Fox platform, Isn't it an MN12 > platform? The [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Patrick > '93 Cobra > Partially correct the Mark VIII chassis, like the VII, was > developed from the Fox. Nope, the Mark VIII is a version of the MN12 Chassis (1993-1998) and most suspension and drivetrain elements are shared with the THunderbirds and COugars of those years. http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/vin.html Ed > What the heck is an "H1" The H1 is based on the original military Hum Vee - you know the one that is totally impractical for the street - noisy, bad gas mileage, horrible ride, only four seats, expensive, unreliable, etc., etc., etc. The only people that buy them don't really need them...a "statement" vehicle. The H2 is a Suburban 2500 with an ugly body, less interior room, and an even higher price tag. Ed > What the heck is an "H1" The first *fake* Hummer. As opposed to the currently available H2, the second *fake* Hummer. >> What the heck is an "H1" > > The first *fake* Hummer. As opposed to the currently available H2, >the second *fake* Hummer. The posturing, over-monied suburban sissies needed their comfort. -Rich > >> What the heck is an "H1" > >> > > The first *fake* Hummer. As opposed to the currently available H2, > >the second *fake* Hummer. > > The posturing, over-monied suburban sissies needed their comfort. Don't forget the forthcoming S10/Colorado-based H3.... SignatureIf there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying! All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!! http://home.att.net/~andyross > h1 = real hummer > h2 = tahoe + body kit I think it would be more correct to say Suburban 2500 + body kit. It has a GCVW high enough to avoid CAFE. I'll admit the difference is somewhat trivial. The actual H2 wheelbase is different than either the Tahoe or Suburban, but it has the same heavier duty suspension components as the HD Suburban. Ed >>h1 = real hummer >>h2 = tahoe + body kit [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ed Hey look, Ed's still around. :-p > ZombyWoof wrote: > All the vehicles are basically the same with the exception of the Corvette and > now the Caddy folks are knocking off a luxo-barge version of that. I wouldn't call the XLR a luxo-barge. It's more like what the original Cougar was compared to the Mustang. Patrick 93 Cobra |
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