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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / April 2005Two kinds of idiots
The kind who will NEVER realize that merging on a highway isn't like moving away from a traffic light and who think 40mph can mix with 60mph without problems. The other kind seem to think it's "impressive" to do that thing with their car alarm or door closer that makes the thing squake, or chirp, or honk a few times. You don't impress ANYONE with that. -Rich >The kind who will NEVER realize that merging on a highway >isn't like moving away from a traffic light and who think [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >You don't impress ANYONE with that. >-Rich what about the idiots in mustangs? hurc ast No problem... sorry, you are not allowed in my Mustang. I am not a bigot... I just hate all stupid people like you. >>The kind who will NEVER realize that merging on a highway >>isn't like moving away from a traffic light and who think [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >hurc ast Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >No problem... sorry, you are not allowed in my Mustang. I am not a >bigot... I just hate all stupid people like you. lmfao what makes u think i would want to ride in your car?? are u gay ?? hurc ast wouldn't matter if you did or didn't... you're still not going to.... LOL : ) >>No problem... sorry, you are not allowed in my Mustang. I am not a >>bigot... I just hate all stupid people like you. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >hurc ast Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >wouldn't matter if you did or didn't... you're still not going to.... >LOL : ) like i care fagboy hurc ast Nice of you to sign you name, but doncha think "fagboy" is blatant advertising for your lifestyle? >>wouldn't matter if you did or didn't... you're still not going to.... >>LOL : ) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >hurc ast Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >Nice of you to sign you name, but doncha think "fagboy" is blatant >advertising for your lifestyle? you the one that wants me to ride in your car lmfao what kid of queer are you? picking up guys on the net offering car rides fagboy hurc ast Its really sad to see someone like you who aparently has no life whatsoever and who's only thrill is to act like a juvinile dick online. You obviouly cant contribute anything of substance here and probably know just enough about cars to be dangerous. I hate to feed the trolls like you, but do feel the need to point you in the direction of counseling or to simply to GET A LIFE. No one likes you here, you probably have no friends, have small penis issues and your only date is your right hand. As a general rule, people like you who only make the same old tired stupid comments and try to ACT like they are an "in the know" certified tech, dont have a clue and you most likely are the wash boy at a used car lot. Now go drive your Pacer around... keep playing on your mommie's PC and dream of owning Mustang. * I'm sure you will have some real witty come back, something like; "lmfao....... bla...bla...bla" ( insert snappy 12 year ) ( old comment here ) hurc ast (Assistant Soap Tech) > what about the idiots in mustangs? > > hurc ast > Its really sad to see someone like you who aparently has no life >whatsoever and who's only thrill is to act like a juvinile dick online. >You obviouly cant contribute anything of substance here and probably >know just enough about cars to be dangerous. is there anything of substance on this group anyway ? > I hate to feed the trolls like you, but do feel the need to point you in >the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >an "in the know" certified tech, dont have a clue and you most likely are >the wash boy at a used car lot. seals on the wall u are the one that is UNSKILLED LABOR > Now go drive your Pacer around... keep playing on your mommie's PC >and dream of owning Mustang. f.ck a mustang is only 35k $$ what a cheap f.cking dreamer u are > * I'm sure you will have some real witty come back, something like; > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> hurc ast Yea, you may be right about the alarm thing BUT It's cool as hell when some sticky fingered little brat is about to paw print your stang and you hit the horn button and scare the sh.t out of him Or they are fiddling with a shopping cart that's dangerously close to dinging your car Or when some dope is about to door ding you getting in or out of their car and you wake them up with a quick tap on the button. Hubs and I do it to each other sometimes as a joke... no is trying to inpress anyone. But it makes both of us laugh when we make the other one jump. He gets me more often than I get him. So my question Rich is: Who did what to make you angry? As far as those that go onto freeways slowly... I agree completely. I've seen allot of near misses because of that. Kate "Beep-Beep!!" | The kind who will NEVER realize that merging on a highway | isn't like moving away from a traffic light and who think [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | You don't impress ANYONE with that. | -Rich > who think > 40mph can mix with 60mph without problems. On a limited access highway where lane discipline is practiced, a wide speed variance is easy and safely delt with. Only in the USA is this a problem, because lane discipline is practically non-existant in much of the nation. Lane discipline is why a 911 and 2CV can be on the autobahn at the same time. It's true, what you say, and yet, at the same time, it is a HUGE oversimplification. The Autobahn has drivers everyday who risk heavy fines by not complying with lane discipline, and there are plenty of MAJOR accidents, and scores of citations which bear this out. Second, you fail to take into account the broad spectrum of traffic flow patterns; ranging from dense metro traffic to sparse rural traffic. You fail to take into account that each requires a totally different approach to driving. What works in the city does not work in the country, and vice versa. You fail to take into account the composition of the drivers; young, old, experience, new, etc. And you fail to note that the Autobahn is not without speed limits imposed as it approaches metropolitan zones. That 911 must slow down and comply with everyone else. Twenty years of law enforcement has shown me that there is a wide range of reasons for accidents. Lane discipline is only one factor. >> who think >> 40mph can mix with 60mph without problems. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Lane discipline is why a 911 and 2CV can be on the autobahn at the same >time. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > It's true, what you say, and yet, at the same time, it is a HUGE > oversimplification. No, it's not. lane discipline is very simple. > The Autobahn has drivers everyday who risk heavy fines by not > complying with lane discipline, and there are plenty of MAJOR > accidents, and scores of citations which bear this out. The autobahn has a lower death rate than the US interstate. It's safer. Yeah, the speed kills morons who prefer letting people who drive as well as their dog out on the road will point to a spectactular crash for the emotional reaction, much like you are doing, but the facts are the facts, disciplined driving is safe driving. I feel safer driving 100+mph on the autobahn than at any speed on a US interstate. The predictability and discipline of drivers makes it a good environment to drive, the speed is irrelevant. > Second, you fail to take into account the broad spectrum of traffic > flow patterns; ranging from dense metro traffic to sparse rural > traffic. You think Germany doesn't have such varied conditions? think again. > You fail to take into account that each requires a totally > different approach to driving. As far as lane discipline, not at all. I do it in conditions people say it's supposedly impossible in. I do so frequently. The reason they find it impossible is because they don't want to try or just use it as a crutch to defend their poor driving. > What works in the city does not work in > the country, and vice versa. Bullshit. Only in places like the USA where disciplined driving is practically unheard of is this true. In fact, the mentality of the USA is to force non-scalable techniques that worked ok in rural Kansas in 1932 to all conditions in the 21st century. This one of the reasons we have so much congestion, especially on surface streets. People are actually being taught to wait 2-3 seconds _after_ the car in front of them gets moving to start moving themselves. So not only is there a slinky effect from people not paying attention, it's actually being encouraged to be made WORSE. This concept works in a town with 5 cars in it, but when there are 10s of vehicles that have to get through each cycle, it fails miserably, people don't make it through and one light starts backing up into the next. In Germany, there is even heavier traffic using a road laid out in the 17th century, but with better flow because people are disciplined about their driving and when the light turns green they all go practically at the same moment, with near zero slinky effect. > You fail to take into account the > composition of the drivers; young, old, experience, new, etc. As if the rest of the world doesn't have that. > And you fail to note that the Autobahn is not without speed limits > imposed as it approaches metropolitan zones. That 911 must slow down > and comply with everyone else. Did I mention speed limits? No. Some of it does have speed limits, but you better still keep your a.s to the right if you're not passing. The speed is irrelevant, that's the point. The safety comes from disciplined driving, not people driving willy-nilly and trying to make them go slow enough so they don't hit each other too hard. > Twenty years of law enforcement has shown me that there is a wide > range of reasons for accidents. Lane discipline is only one factor. Let me guess from the above, like most cops on revenue patrol you prefer (because of what you've been taught) that we have a bunch of morons driving around, hitting each other a lot, and trying to control the degree of damage with a hopeless (but profitable) effort to make them go slower. This hasn't worked, it won't work, it will never work. Speed enforcement with no effort paid towards disciplined driving just doesn't help anything but the coffers of government. You cannot have safe roadways where people are allowed to cut each other off, practice no lane discipline, are unable to merge, accelerate, turn or brake but speed is enforced sort-a-kinda-late-at-night etc. You are welcome to believe what you will. It's not worth the effort to discuss the subject with someone who is locked into a single position wherein any other position is rejected without investigation. I hope you can retain that holier than thou attitude when a tractor trailer rig is eating your 100+ vehicle. >> It's true, what you say, and yet, at the same time, it is a HUGE >> oversimplification. [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] >discipline, are unable to merge, accelerate, turn or brake but speed is >enforced sort-a-kinda-late-at-night etc. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > You are welcome to believe what you will. It's not worth the effort to > discuss the subject with someone who is locked into a single position > wherein any other position is rejected without investigation. Investigation? I've been studying this topic for years. Last time this sort of subject came up, I provided cite after cite after cite backing up my views and got nothing but your style of arguement by declaration in return. > I hope > you can retain that holier than thou attitude when a tractor trailer > rig is eating your 100+ vehicle. That will most likely happening obeying the assinine 45mph INTERSTATE speed limits in these parts when the semis are doing 65+ >> who think >> 40mph can mix with 60mph without problems. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Lane discipline is why a 911 and 2CV can be on the autobahn at the same > time. I have to agree. On I-25, the posted speed limit is 75, most people go 80-90, but there will ALWAYS be the assclown in the left lane going SLOWER than the traffic, causing people to have to go into the right lane to pass his/her sorry a.s. These drivers are much greater hazards to the roads than speeders or tailgaters. It's a pity that they can't be shot on sight. Wish I could walk on water too, but I guess I was just destined to be one of the common people. >>> who think >>> 40mph can mix with 60mph without problems. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >his/her sorry a.s. These drivers are much greater hazards to the roads than >speeders or tailgaters. It's a pity that they can't be shot on sight. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Wish I could walk on water too, but I guess I was just destined to be > one of the common people. WTF? Unless this nation adopts disciplined driving, things are only going to get worse. We certainly won't be able to add enough lanes to make up for not having it. I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to the Autobahn enforcement and management divisions), you expect to get everyone to fall in line like good little soldiers and stick to this practice. You can't do it there with strict enforcement, how do you expect to see compliance anywhere? But what do I know... I'm just a "revenue" cop with 20+ years experience. You have all the answers. Go fix it. >> Wish I could walk on water too, but I guess I was just destined to be >> one of the common people. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >get worse. We certainly won't be able to add enough lanes to make up for >not having it. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the > Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to > the Autobahn enforcement and management divisions), I didn't argue they violated it, I argue they follow it far more than US drivers. And they do so without much in the way of enforcement. There is very sparse enforcement on the autobahn, and when there is, they go after things like tailgating, as that is the major problem there last I heard. If we only had it so good. > you expect to get > everyone to fall in line like good little soldiers and stick to this > practice. I expect drivers to show real courtesy to other road users. If I were to adopt your principles, I would ride my cannondale (that's a bicycle) in the center of the left lane of a 40+mph arterial. (I'm a pretty fast rider too, but I am not 40mph fast) > You can't do it there with strict enforcement, how do you > expect to see compliance anywhere? But what do I know... I'm just a > "revenue" cop with 20+ years experience. You have all the answers. Go > fix it. To use your arguement, above, all speed enforcement should stop as a useless waste of time. But it doesn't. How much time and effort is spent on speeding tickets? How much time and effort is spent trying to catch criminals by stopping vehicles hoping to find one? If you want enforcement, redirect the resources to where they are most effective for road safety rather than the government coffers. However, unlike you, I don't believe in the enforcement model. I believe that there should be training and have simple rules that make sense, with things like speed limits set properly and sensibly. When an interstate flows at 78 mph and the speed limit is 55mph, it encourages people to use any lane they want any time they want at 63mph. If the speed limit reflected the actual travel speeds, the lane discipline problem would be greatly reduced immediately. Also driver training in the USA is practically non-existant. People just sort of decide on their own personal set of rules. This includes cops. >> I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the >> Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >things like tailgating, as that is the major problem there last I heard. >If we only had it so good. That is not accurate according to the Management and Enforcement agencies of the Autobahn. There are cameras for monitoring traffic, and enforcement uses a wide range of specialized, marked and unmarked, car and motorcycle patrols, as well as roadside monitoring. They go after violators of a wide range of traffic laws, including, lighting,signaling, speed, adverse conditions operation, lane changing at speed, proper lane maintenance, etc etc etc. I get the impression you have not personally driven the Autobahn, nor studied the management of it's use. If what you say is contrary to what the management and enforcement operations of the Autobahn, and the German government say, how can anything you say be taken seriously? Law enforcement is there to enforce the law... and that includes traffic laws. Police officers don't make the laws. You put down the enforcement model, as if the cops make the rules. Talk to the politicians. There are a lot of changes we would like to see, but we have to live with what the system hands us. You act as if our sole motivation is revenue. It's clear you don't personally know many, if any at all, police officers. You clearly have no idea what they are about, or what they have to contend with from people who seem to think they are above the law because they know better than the enforcement officer, and everyone else. >Also driver training in the USA is practically non-existant. People just >sort of decide on their own personal set of rules. This includes cops. I do agree that driver training can be different in scope from one area to another. You see that elsewhere in the world. For example, in Belgium you were required to have a driver's license if you bought a new car, but if you bought a used car it was not required. In some countries, a license is unheard of for the masses. I know what my son went through to get his license. The number of months of restricted driving (things like not permitted to have other teens in the car is the law for new young drivers), etc. I'm getting the feeling you have selected a single region where you have experienced your peeves, and applied that to the entire country. People are different from one zone to another. Just as rural people are less apt to lock their homes than people living in major metro areas. I've lived in MA, NY, ME, IN, FL, MN, CA, WA, AK, rural and metro areas, and traveled through most of the rest of the country. My experience is fairly extensive. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >>> I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the >>> Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > management and enforcement operations of the Autobahn, and the German > government say, how can anything you say be taken seriously? You have an actual cite? Because this image of rigid enforcement you are trying to convey is contrary to everything I've read, seen, and experienced. Yes, there is enforcement, but it is not the way you are making it out to be. There is no constant monitoring of everyone, everywhere for violations as you are making it out to be. It simply is not like that. There is some enforcement presence, but nothing like you claim. Sparse would be a good word to describe it. Rural autobahn has effectively nobody out there enforcing lane discipline, much like rural Indiana. However, on the rural autobahn, there is lane discipline, while in rural Indiana interstate it's practically nonexistant. Effectively what you are doing is taking the existance of a few red light cameras and acting as if the entire US road system is so monitored. Also, I didn't write that only tailgating was enforced, but that tailgating was the big problem. There are/have been tailgating traps set up on overpasses to measure the distances between vehicles. Much like the effort put in with speed traps in the USA. Patrol cars are few and far between as well. So, you show me this constant, ever present enforcement you claim exists. I simply didn't see it, and you are the first person I've encountered to claim it's there. > Law enforcement is there to enforce the law... and that includes > traffic laws. Then enforce Keep Right except to pass. Enforce signaling, enforce a whole host of laws on books in this country. But are they enforced? No. Here in IL, elected officals strengthen the lane discipline portion of the vehicle code. In a year's time, the ISP writes a whole 50 some tickets. It's trivial. On I90/94 it one could spend their entire shift writing tickets for this and this alone. > Police officers don't make the laws. They damn well choose what to enforce and on who. > You put down the enforcement model, as if the cops make the rules. No, I put it down because it's idiotcy. The same way you are claiming the autobahn is so tightly controled and how that's no good. (thankfully it's not controlled like that) > Talk to the politicians. Yes, you're only following the orders of your masters. > There are a lot of changes we would like to see, but we > have to live with what the system hands us. As if there is no selective enforcement. > You act as if our sole motivation is revenue. That's the motivation of your masters, the politicians, and since you just follow orders, and told me to take it up with them, then it is your motivation too. > It's clear you don't personally know many, if > any at all, police officers. You clearly have no idea what they are > about, or what they have to contend with from people who seem to think > they are above the law because they know better than the enforcement > officer, and everyone else. Oh, you mean like the ISP who ticket people for going faster than 55mph but drive 85-90mph themselves? Or the local cops that rutinely speed and don't use singals and make all sorts of violations? Or the cops who don't know the vehicle code and demanded that I remove my vehicle (a bicycle) from the roadway? Or my favorite, the two cops, one tailgating the other driving 80mph or so on IL53, and when the lead cruiser used the brakes, the following cruiser nearly rear ended the lead one. >>Also driver training in the USA is practically non-existant. People just >>sort of decide on their own personal set of rules. This includes cops. > I do agree that driver training can be different in scope from one > area to another. You see that elsewhere in the world. For example, in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > selected a single region where you have experienced your peeves, and > applied that to the entire country. What part of the US of A has a decent driver training program? Name one. Just name one state that has something closer to say the UK's requirements than usual around-the-block type testing of the USA. Oh, btw, the hoops teenagers in the USA are made to go through in the USA only make for equally untrained older teenagers driving. It's not about teaching them to drive, but just restricting their driving to limit the damage they can do. (Identical mentality to having underposted speed limits, let every idiot drive, but try to restrict the damage that will occur when they hit something) Having only one passenger so they can't kill 3 of their friends in a wreck under the concept that they cannot handle distractions from said friends. Maybe it's because this is a culture of multi-tasking drivers. Where driving isn't considered important, but something you can do in addition to yacking on the phone, reading, shaving, applying make up, etc... Just ease them into being like most of the rest of the population. I'd like to see a state that starts requiring skid control classes in HS driver's ed instead of having cops hassle the few that find an empty parking lot to teach themselves. > People are different from one zone > to another. Just as rural people are less apt to lock their homes than > people living in major metro areas. I've lived in MA, NY, ME, IN, FL, > MN, CA, WA, AK, rural and metro areas, and traveled through most of > the rest of the country. My experience is fairly extensive. I am not saying observed behavior doesn't vary. It vary well does because driving education in this country is essentially one generation teaching the next. You can check in google groups to see where I have argued before that it DOES vary from place to place. I found that lane discipline in WV is orders of magnitude better than in IL, for instance. So much for your newest manufactured angle. However, required driver training in the USA is low in every state as far as I know. I think one law enforcement exchange program experience would open your eyes to a presence you fail to observe. Perhaps as you are traveling at 100+ the natural tunnel vision which develops blinds you to the obvious. Then read the annual reports from the people who manage the Autobahn. Read the engineering reports regarding the construction and maintenance of the Autobahn, and you will see that there is no other system, as old or new, which compares to what has gone into creating, maintaining, and improving the system, anywhere in the world, although some of the newer Japanese route are approaching first rate. You cite the Autobahn and how much more the drivers comply compared to the US. The Autobahn, extensive as it is, is a very small piece of the European roadway system. The portion you don't mention is nowhere near as complying. I would suggest that you get over there and do a much wider range of travel, and then question why the Autobahn has more compliance. It is not simply because the drivers are more polite. >>>> I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the >>>> Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to [quoted text clipped - 143 lines] >So much for your newest manufactured angle. However, required >driver training in the USA is low in every state as far as I know. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >I think one law enforcement exchange program experience would open >your eyes to a presence you fail to observe. Perhaps as you are [quoted text clipped - 166 lines] >Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" >w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 I've spent almost seven years driving in Germany and through most of Europe. The Europeans are much more disciplined drivers than what is seen in the US. Germans can take a tag number and report a violation to the police. With a witness or two, an offender can (and will, in many cases) be cited.  SignatureJohn H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." > I think one law enforcement exchange program experience would open > your eyes to a presence you fail to observe. Guess you're not going to provide a cite or address anything I've written. > Perhaps as you are > traveling at 100+ the natural tunnel vision which develops blinds you > to the obvious. You're wrong. I've driven the autobahn, crusied at 90+mph and was just keeping up. I never passed many people, even when I had the car topped out at ~118mph. The only other car in the area at that time though was a cop, who was ahead of me and slightly gaining on me. Meanwhile, the actual data shows the autobahn safer than US interstate. And I have to agree. I've never felt safer on the road than I did on the unrestricted autobahn. The competence of the drivers around me was amazing to me. No me first f.ck you games, no passive aggressive a.sholes, no nothing. Orderly, effecient, fast and _SAFE_. > Then read the annual reports from the people who > manage the Autobahn. Read the engineering reports regarding the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the world, although some of the newer Japanese route are approaching > first rate. Yes, and there is no reason, the US tax payer should put up with the slip-shod crap that's done regarding our roads. Our roads should last a lot longer. But even with the crap we have, 80-95mph is generally fine for most interstates. Can't do 200mph anywhere there is winter, but 45-55mph speed limits are just there to serve lowest common demonator thinking, revenue goals, and of course the ability to stop just about anyone at any time. > You cite the Autobahn and how much more the drivers comply > compared to the US. The Autobahn, extensive as it is, is a very small [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > has more compliance. It is not simply because the drivers are more > polite. Round trip from hamburg to flensburg to keil to flensburg to hamburg and I saw ONE cop. He was driving about a 120mph and I couldn't keep up with him. Surface streets, I never saw a cop car that wasn't parked and empty. Drivers were well displined. Light was green, we moved. No dillyadallying morons. Social correction is also present, no 'just-let-em-do-it' crapola like in the USA. I was making right turns on red and getting dirty looks, so I asked one of the guys in the plant and found it's not legal there. I ceased making right on reds. BTW, You might want to learn about what's based in Flensburg, you might be surprised. <refuse of top posting deleted> >I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the >Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >"revenue" cop with 20+ years experience. You have all the answers. Go >fix it. Maybe it starts with much tougher driving tests and not granting licenses to every idiot that wants one? -Rich >> In article <ta56615sat0r77lgjrsnqv07js186232ua@4ax.com>, RichA >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > greater hazards to the roads than speeders or tailgaters. It's a > pity that they can't be shot on sight. Check this out: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/legislature/sfl-froadrage15apr15,1,6963282.stor y?ctrack=1&cset=true The Road Rage Law is coming to Florida. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC Brent... While there is much you promote with which I disagree, there is much I do agree with. However, I do not hold with the concept, right or wrong, that the United States should be like anyone else. Our history is nothing like the Euros, and my Aussie friends have all voiced the same feelings about their home. Nor do I expect the Euros to be like us. More than anything, I want to thank you for allowing me to work off some of the boredom of this weekend by getting you worked up...and stringing you along. This is one of those subjects; like politics or religion, where neither side wins. You will never understand what it's like to be one of the cops you seem to distrust, dislike, and have no use for, and I will never know what it is like to be you. Anyway, thanks for the break in the monotony.... : ) Have a great week. >> who think >> 40mph can mix with 60mph without problems. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Lane discipline is why a 911 and 2CV can be on the autobahn at the same >time. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Brent... While there is much you promote with which I disagree, there > is much I do agree with. So you're not going to address the points I made. > However, I do not hold with the concept, > right or wrong, that the United States should be like anyone else. Our constitution dictates a system more like Germany's that one we have. > Our > history is nothing like the Euros, and my Aussie friends have all > voiced the same feelings about their home. Nor do I expect the Euros > to be like us. How are the concepts of liberty supported by a system of arbitary rule on the roads? I am for two simple things. 1) Drive such that one's impact on others is minimal. 2) That speed limits be set by the 85th percentile method, and derestriction on rural limited access highways. (such as interstates) This is what is compatible with the concepts of liberty outlined by constitution of the united states of america. Germany is simply the example that shows it works and is safer than what we presently have. What we presently have is wrong on every level. We have a system of arbitary speed limits that are nearly universally ignored. How is that compatible with a government that is supposed to be by the people for the people? It seems to be a government _OVER_ the people. And that's always the excuse used to defend under posted speed limits, that elected officals just know better than the people they rule over. > More than anything, I want to thank you for allowing me to work off > some of the boredom of this weekend by getting you worked up...and > stringing you along. Nice face saving comment. > This is one of those subjects; like politics or > religion, where neither side wins. No, this subject is settled by DATA. It's an engineering question, and the data is on my side. > You will never understand what it's > like to be one of the cops you seem to distrust, dislike, and have no > use for, and I will never know what it is like to be you. Anyway, > thanks for the break in the monotony.... : ) I'll never understand what it is to be someone who collects tax revenue at the side of the road with a gun. I'll never understand the unquestioning, following orders mentality that every cop I've had any meaningful discussion with has. I'll never understand how so someone who does police work has so little understanding of the constitution of this nation, so little understanding of the beliefs that brought it about, and views more like those of a police state. Police are on the front lines of taking away the liberty of the people. I don't trust their masters (government), so why should I trust those that follow the orders blindly? You're still going on about this? Oh, well. Hope the rest of your week is better for you. You need to lighten up or you'll end up with ulcers and an early grave. I hope we don't travel in the same neighborhood. If my difference of opinion gets you this wound up, I'd hate to think what you might do if I accidentally cut you off in traffic. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > You're still going on about this? Oh, well. Hope the rest of your week > is better for you. You need to lighten up or you'll end up with ulcers > and an early grave. I hope we don't travel in the same neighborhood. > If my difference of opinion gets you this wound up, I'd hate to think > what you might do if I accidentally cut you off in traffic. More attempts at face saving. *yawn* Well, you wasted enough of my time and yours with your attitude.Try to have a nice day. If your mind wasn't so closed, you might have learned something. >> You're still going on about this? Oh, well. Hope the rest of your week >> is better for you. You need to lighten up or you'll end up with ulcers [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >More attempts at face saving. *yawn* Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Well, you wasted enough of my time and yours with your attitude.Try to > have a nice day. If your mind wasn't so closed, you might have learned > something. You didn't put forth one bit of true information. Just the usual cop bluster of 'the law is the law, I'm just following orders, obey me'. That's great for a police state, but the USA isn't one officially.... yet. You know, I had some respect for your opinion, whether I agreed or not, I now just feel sorry for you. You don't like law enforcement officers, and that's OK. It's your right in a free society. However, if you ever get into a bind, I wonder who you will call. I also wonder at someone who cites liberty and the Constitution and then refuses to accept that someone else has a different opinion. That sounds as if you have forgotten what they are all about. Yes you can quote them, but you obviously do not feel them. They are just lifeless tools to you. To me they are the life of the nation. >> Well, you wasted enough of my time and yours with your attitude.Try to >> have a nice day. If your mind wasn't so closed, you might have learned [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >That's great for a police state, but the USA isn't one officially.... >yet. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > You know, I had some respect for your opinion, whether I agreed or > not, I now just feel sorry for you. You haven't been arguing from 'authority', top posting and ignoring my points that is not respect. > You don't like law enforcement officers, and that's OK. Never wrote that. I don't like the way police work is presently practiced. > It's your right in a free society. However, > if you ever get into a bind, I wonder who you will call. Well, I've learned that calling the cops is useless. > I also wonder > at someone who cites liberty and the Constitution and then refuses to > accept that someone else has a different opinion. I accept you have a different opinion, it's simply wrong and you haven't supported it. > That sounds as if > you have forgotten what they are all about. Yes you can quote them, > but you obviously do not feel them. They are just lifeless tools to > you. To me they are the life of the nation. Not by what you've written here. Because someone top posts that makes them disrespectful? I think it makes it easier to read the comment wiithout having to sort through the whole post. "Back in the day" top posting was considered a no-no, times have changed. You may as well get used to it. Kate | You haven't been arguing from 'authority', top posting and ignoring my | points that is not respect. *snipped for clarity* > Because someone top posts that makes them disrespectful? Eyup, especially when they are enlightened as to the error of their ways (or rather, Microsoft's intentionally broken newsreader's ways) and yet continue to top post. Most people prefer to read top to bottom. I've yet to see anything written that was easier to follow from bottom to top. Signature/ Garth - '83 GL V6stang Hatch <Former MW #7> \ | My V6stang: http://www.v6stang.com/v6stang | | RAMFM Merchandise: http://www.cafeshops.com/ramfm | \ Mail pgp@v6stang.com for secure reply information / How about up and down (Asian kanji), or back and forth (Arabic/Hebrew)... I don't read them but when you get to the end of a line you don't have to go back to the beginning to start the next line....Jeeezzzz I hope Bill Gates didn't hear that..... Can you imagine what Windows would look like? LOL : ) >> Because someone top posts that makes them disrespectful? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Most people prefer to read top to bottom. I've yet to see anything >written that was easier to follow from bottom to top. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 Sorry Garth, I disagree. I much prefer to read the reply right there on top. And as much as I hate to piss you off, I will continue to post in this fashion. It's not as if I will go to jail for it. I've always done it this way, sometimes on the bottom, sometimes intertwined within a post. Why would someone prefer top scroll to the bottom of a post then read from to to bottom? It's unnatural. Here in the USA we read left to right, top to bottom. You know that. I have only known a few people that make a fuss over it one way or another. Like I said, I'm not trying to start a pissing match, but I'm not going to change my ways. Kate | > Because someone top posts that makes them disrespectful? | [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] || RAMFM Merchandise: http://www.cafeshops.com/ramfm | | \ Mail pgp@v6stang.com for secure reply information / > Why would someone prefer top scroll to the bottom of a post then read from > top to bottom? > It's unnatural. Indeed, and that's exactly what I had to do to figure out what I had said that you're replying to. I agree; top posting is completely unnatural, and was virtually unheard of before Microsoft introduced it's broken mail and news client. > Here in the USA we read left to right, top to bottom. You know that. Which is why top posting makes absolutely no sense to me. It's like putting chapter one *after* chapter two in a novel. > I have only known a few people that make a fuss over it one way or another. > Like I said, I'm not trying to start a pissing match, but I'm not going to > change my ways. I don't usually make a fuss over it either, but since you asked I couldn't help answering. :) Signature/ Garth - '83 GL V6stang Hatch <Former MW #7> \ | My V6stang: http://www.v6stang.com/v6stang | | RAMFM Merchandise: http://www.cafeshops.com/ramfm | \ Mail pgp@v6stang.com for secure reply information / | I don't usually make a fuss over it either, but since you asked I | couldn't help answering. :) LOL... well, it was good for a giggle anyway! Why is this still going on..!!! Garth I dont know how you have your news set up.. But all three of the readers I use have the threads nested. Now given that some dont know how to edit replies|replies|replies|.... ad nauseum... WHY IN HE!! do I have to scroll down through everything I read in the previous post? And do it over and over again! Your position makes sense in the old days of text readers...IT MAKES NO sense today. I used text readers then, I use modern ones today If the post I'm replying to is short then I'll bottom post... otherwise I will be kind and assume that the reader got the previous and doesnt want to read it again.. and usually I edit to the specific point I'm replying to... But I sure aint going to bottom post unless there's a reason for it. Yes, because it forces all the work on the other person. and it puts things out out of order. Most top posters, including the one I responded to, don't even bother to trim. The only reason top posting occurs so much now, is because of microsoft crapware. > Because someone top posts that makes them disrespectful? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > *snipped for clarity* I tend to follow the leader. If I respond to a top post (like this one), I'll top post. If I respond to a bottom post, I'll bottom post. Real easy. Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > In article <SI8ae.14167$44.11923@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, > SVTKate wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >> *snipped for clarity* And if we keep top posting long enough, the last post in the thread will be a 1000 lines wrong. That's why I start top posting when someone decides to argue with me that it's ok. If I top post long enough, they begin to get the point. See, top posting doesn't work well when neither party is doing the clean up work. Top posters function because others are doing the clean up > I tend to follow the leader. If I respond to a top post (like this > one), I'll top post. If I respond to a bottom post, I'll bottom post. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >>> >>> *snipped for clarity* So what? > And if we keep top posting long enough, the last post in the thread > will be a 1000 lines wrong. That's why I start top posting when [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >>>> >>>> *snipped for clarity* Well it slows things down, is wasteful, hard to follow, messy. If you are refering to pushing the work on others, well it's just plain rude. > So what? > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >>>>> >>>>> *snipped for clarity* Wasteful? How so? Is it ruining our rain forests? Using ink? Polluting something? Taking up valuable space in an overcrowded world? Wasting Bandwidth? In today's world? Seriously?. In a plain text format? WHoo hoo.. the message I am responding to is a WHOLE 4kb! That's like comparing a Mustnag II to today's '05. Things have changed! Now, if it's in a group that posts photos and html, then yea, you have a point. Deleting images from a reply is just courtesy. "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> | Well it slows things down, is wasteful, hard to follow, messy. If you are | refering to pushing the work on others, well it's just plain rude. Pushing WHAT work on others?????? No one says you HAVE to delete it or pick through it. Te reason for top posting is so you DON'T have to wade through it. Even bottom feeders leave all the junk in a post. C'mon Brent... it's really not that big of a deal who's on top. Kate "I'll post where I want to until it's a ticketable offence" Wastes my time scrolling down to see who the hell they were replying to. Often I only want to see a certain branch, or just read posts replying to mine. With the attributions first, I can see that right off. Also the garbage builds up at the bottom because the vast majority of top posters don't do any cleaning. This is why I top post in all threads on top posting. I intentionally post the way the vast majority of top posters do, until it becomes irritating to the top posters. See, some people still use dialup connections too, they don't want to deal with all the garbage at the bottom. (I don't but occasionally the connection to the news server is slow) Also, top posting is a great way to hide context, and ignore points the other person has made. > Wasteful? > How so? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Kate > "I'll post where I want to until it's a ticketable offence" > Well it slows things down, is wasteful, hard to follow, messy. If > you are refering to pushing the work on others, well it's just plain > rude. Not to usurp Kate's response, but the above is simply bullshit. > In article <A1jae.115587$wo1.21805@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, Joe > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >>>>>> >>>>>> *snipped for clarity* Really? I've seen 1000 line posts when two top posters went at it. Posts so long that I would have to wait on a broadband connection. Back when I was using modem connections, these would really suck. Also, 95+% of top posters I've encountered don't trim, don't do any work what so ever, they expect other people to do it. There are a few idiot bottom posters who do the same. No trimming what so ever. Posts that are practically unreadable except for the new content. As I stated before, it's also a good way just to ignore points the other person has made. >> Well it slows things down, is wasteful, hard to follow, messy. If >> you are refering to pushing the work on others, well it's just plain [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *snipped for clarity* Again, so what? If you don't like it don't read it. If you want to whine about it, get ready for responses. And btw, why do you continue to top post if it's so horrible? > Really? I've seen 1000 line posts when two top posters went at it. > Posts so long that I would have to wait on a broadband connection. [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *snipped for clarity* You don't seem to understand how things work. You don't care. It's all about your ease of doing things, just like most top posters. Just push the work on other people. And it seems you have a inability to read and pay attention. I start top posting in threads about top posting. Because it's the best way to demonstrate my points. > Again, so what? If you don't like it don't read it. If you want to > whine about it, get ready for responses. And btw, why do you continue [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *snipped for clarity* > You don't seem to understand how things work. I understand very well how things work. What you don't seem to understand is how things _don't_ work. > You don't care. Bingo! Give the man a cigar. After all, it's only USENET. > It's > all about your ease of doing things, just like most top posters. > Just push the work on other people. Dude, if you had read, you'd have seen that I top post to other people's top posting. I bottom post to other people's bottom posts. I'm flexible. > And it seems you have a inability to read and pay attention. It seems that way because _you_ aren't reading and paying attention. > I start > top posting in threads about top posting. Because it's the best way > to demonstrate my points. LOL! Whatever. As you said above, I really don't give a rat's a.s. That explains a lot. >> You don't seem to understand how things work. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > LOL! Whatever. As you said above, I really don't give a rat's a.s. Glad you finally get it. > That explains a lot. > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >> >> LOL! Whatever. As you said above, I really don't give a rat's a.s. You're a selfish a.shole that doesn't care. Yep, I get it. Your projections all make sense now. > Glad you finally get it. > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >>> LOL! Whatever. As you said above, I really don't give a rat's > a.s. Gee, Brent, I guess you just couldn't resist stooping to "character assassination", as you put it, too. tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote in news:ks-dnX9DN- zeoPHfRVn-uA@comcast.com: > You're a selfish a.shole that doesn't care. Yep, I get it. Your > projections all make sense now. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >>>> LOL! Whatever. As you said above, I really don't give a rat's >> a.s. > Gee, Brent, I guess you just couldn't resist stooping to "character > assassination", as you put it, too. I've never put it that way. I never made the quote you are attributing to me in this thread. As I've stated many times, I reflect back at people how they treat me. > tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote in news:ks-dnX9DN- > zeoPHfRVn-uA@comcast.com: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >>>>> LOL! Whatever. As you said above, I really don't give a rat's >>> a.s. I imagine then that you do a lot of reflecting back. Perhaps it is because the attitude you present is of a self centered, holier than thou, egotist, who just wants to see his words in print, and feel that he is having true communications with others. This may not be who you are, not what you are about, but it is the way you come across. It's like the joke about the masochist and the sadist standing on the corner. The masochist pleads with the sadist, "beat me, beat me". To which the sadist replies, "NO!". And on that note, I place you on my ignore list, and say, "no more!". I would suggest that the others take a similar course. Nothing you say will alter Brent's view, nor his response to anything you might have to say. >> Gee, Brent, I guess you just couldn't resist stooping to "character >> assassination", as you put it, too. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >>>>>> LOL! Whatever. As you said above, I really don't give a rat's >>>> a.s. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > I imagine then that you do a lot of reflecting back. Perhaps it is > because the attitude you present is of a self centered, holier than > thou, egotist, who just wants to see his words in print, and feel that > he is having true communications with others. This may not be who you > are, not what you are about, but it is the way you come across. When are you going to address the ideas, facts, and cites I presented instead of attacking -me-? > It's like the joke about the masochist and the sadist standing on the > corner. The masochist pleads with the sadist, "beat me, beat me". To > which the sadist replies, "NO!". You're the one making this about me. I could care less, I prefer debating issues using facts and reason. Something you've failed to be able to do. Your reaction is typical of someone who has been outwitted in the realm of facts and reason. > And on that note, I place you on my ignore list, and say, "no more!". Great. Another moron I don't have to deal with. > I would suggest that the others take a similar course. Nothing you say > will alter Brent's view, nor his response to anything you might have > to say. You haven't presented anything capable of swaying anyone with rational, logical thought processes. You've made declarations and emotional appeals. Feel free to make logical posts regarding facts and issues and back them up with cites. That's what I've done. You on the other hand have not. Instead, you attack me personally and try to make it about me. >I imagine then that you do a lot of reflecting back. Perhaps it is >because the attitude you present is of a self centered, holier than >thou, egotist, who just wants to see his words in print, and feel that >he is having true communications with others. This may not be who you >are, not what you are about, but it is the way you come across. Really? That wasn't my impression of Brent at all. Must be your own perceptual filters at work... >And on that note, I place you on my ignore list, and say, "no more!". > >I would suggest that the others take a similar course. I'd plonk you before I would plonk Brent. >Nothing you say >will alter Brent's view, nor his response to anything you might have >to say. Ah, so you killfile anyone who doesn't agree with you, is that it? SignatureProud to be a wreckless driver! http://www.geocities.com/scottenaztlan/index.html | Yes, because it forces all the work on the other person. and it puts | things out out of order. Most top posters, including the one I responded | to, don't even bother to trim. How do you figure that? I think that bottom posting makes it harder to find the replies. You have to sort through all the rest to find a single response. | The only reason top posting occurs so much now, is because of microsoft | crapware. Ya know what? I am damn sick and tired of people capping on OE. I happen to LIKE it. So do allot of other people. I've tried a bunch of other readers, and have yet to find anything I liked as well. I like it's format, I like the fact that it is integrated with my email and I like the way it works. It has some bugs.. so what! So does my f.cking Mustang, that doesn't make me like it any less. Kate Because that's what 95+% of top posters do. >| In article <SI8ae.14167$44.11923@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, > SVTKate wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Kate >You know, I had some respect for your opinion, whether I agreed or >not, I now just feel sorry for you. You don't like law enforcement >officers, and that's OK. It's your right in a free society. However, >if you ever get into a bind, I wonder who you will call. I have a friend whose house I go to a fair bit. Before getting to his house, you go down a steep hill. When you enter the street to go down the hill, it appears you haven't changed the speed zone. In fact, just past a street at the bottom of the hill is a sign indicating the speed limit has changed from 36mph to 24mph. Almost everytime I go there, the is a cop, parked with radar squirreled away in the side street. Like shooting fish in a barrel. I have never heard of ANY accidents on that street. As far as I'm concerned, this bozo, who is earning $60,000 a year to sit with his radar gun is a BLIGHT on society. -Rich >>You know, I had some respect for your opinion, whether I agreed or >>not, I now just feel sorry for you. You don't like law enforcement [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >$60,000 a year to sit with his radar gun is a BLIGHT on society. >-Rich Where the hell do the have a 36mph & 24mph speed limit? Signature"Either kill me or take me as I am, because I'll be damned if I ever change..." The Marquis de Sade >>In fact, just past a street at the bottom of the hill is a sign >>indicating the speed limit has changed from 36mph to 24mph. >>Almost everytime I go there, the is a cop, parked with radar >>squirreled away in the side street. > > Where the hell do the have a 36mph & 24mph speed limit? Considering he's posting from Sympatico in Ottawa, I'm guessing he's talking in KM/h but converting for the benefit of us backwards Americans. ;) (I used to wonder the same thing about a guy from Vancouver who was always talking about 56 and 62 MPH speed limits...) Signature/ Garth - '83 GL V6stang Hatch <Former MW #7> \ | My V6stang: http://www.v6stang.com/v6stang | | RAMFM Merchandise: http://www.cafeshops.com/ramfm | \ Mail pgp@v6stang.com for secure reply information / > >You know, I had some respect for your opinion, whether I agreed or > >not, I now just feel sorry for you. You don't like law enforcement [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > $60,000 a year to sit with his radar gun is a BLIGHT on society. > -Rich Well you know what the speed limit is...........it's f.cking posted........ but yet you cry when you get hammered it's your own god damn fault! No accidents on that street? Well maybe the reason why is sitting in that car shooting fish in a barrel! Dave > Well you know what the speed limit is...........it's f.cking posted........ > but yet you cry when you get hammered it's your own god damn fault! No > accidents on that street? Well maybe the reason why is sitting in that car > shooting fish in a barrel! Another supporter of the police state speaks! OBEY OBEY OBEY AUTHORITY. It doesn't matter what authority demands, you must OBEY, because it's authority. If cops, buracrats, and elected officals actually had to obey the laws and regulations they create and enforce, then things would be considerably different. What an idiot. What is it you actually want? A society where there is no authority to obey? A society where BrentP can drive the way BrentP wants to drive no matter what? People push the limits every day. If the speed limit is 55 they push for 65. If it's 65, they push for 75. It's a common practice to drive 4 to 5 miles over the speed limit in the mistaken belief that you can't get nailed for that small an infraction. The people push at traffic lights, and rail crossings as evidenced by the number of intersection and crossing accidents. Every day, multitudes drink and drive when everyone knows it is both against the law and endangers the lives of everyone on the road. They do so because it's human nature to do so, in part because people object to authority just as you do. They desire to be free to do things their way. Yet they realize that even though they don't want to be the subject,authority (law enforcement, government, whatever you want to call it is a necessary "evil" in keeping society from turning into chaos and anarchy. Still, you want to let people drive on the honor system. Even you have admitted that you have no honor when it comes to obeying the traffic laws. Your personal deity, the Autobahn, as good as it is, can not get all the people to comply with your honor system. To believe that society can exist without some level of controls in every aspect of their lives is idiocy of the first order. People, while ideally they might wish for less, should feel fortunate that there is as little enforcement in the United States as there is. Police State? You have never lived under a true Police State. Not even close. >> Well you know what the speed limit is...........it's f.cking posted........ >> but yet you cry when you get hammered it's your own god damn fault! No [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >and regulations they create and enforce, then things would be >considerably different. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >What an idiot. What is it you actually want? A society where there is >no authority to obey? A society where BrentP can drive the way BrentP [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >lives of everyone on the road. They do so because it's human nature to >do so, in part because people object to authority just as you do. Why is it all supporters of an overpoliced state think that EVERYONE who objects to certain aspects OF the police state are reckless speeders, drunks or red-light runners? -Rich >>What an idiot. What is it you actually want? A society where there is >>no authority to obey? A society where BrentP can drive the way BrentP [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > speeders, drunks or red-light runners? > -Rich Whoa there, buck-o. Now don't jump to conclusions just yet. Just tell us why you guys think you have the right to break laws. And BTW, you want to know what an overpoliced state is? It's this whole damn country with those idiot Bush brothers sticking their noses in where they don't belong. Who the hell are they to say what happens to Terry Schiavo? Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC > What an idiot. What is it you actually want? A society where there is > no authority to obey? A society where BrentP can drive the way BrentP > wants to drive no matter what? Nice strawman. How about reasonable rules that people obey because they are REASONABLE instead of just because someone on high says so. Or because the man with the gun says so. Someone says the speed limit change is wrong and unreasonable. A cop type responds 'the law is the law, obey'. Figure it out. Law enforcement types consistantly don't respect the concepts of liberty and rule by the people for the people. They are consistantly in the camps of people who think that kings and emperors and other self proclaimed elites should decide what's best for all of us. Occasionally there is one that believes in the tyranny of courts or tyranny of the majority. > People push the limits every day. If the speed limit is 55 they push > for 65. If it's 65, they push for 75. It's a common practice to drive > 4 to 5 miles over the speed limit in the mistaken belief that you > can't get nailed for that small an infraction. I have provided the cite consistantly that this premise is false. You only see it when roads are severely under posted and the new higher speed limit is still underposted. http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html Federal Highway Administration. Effects of Raising and Lowering Speed Limits. Report No. FHwA/RD-92/084. McLean, VA. June 1996. > The people push at > traffic lights, and rail crossings as evidenced by the number of > intersection and crossing accidents. And many traffic lights are set up poorly encouraging the practice. Because in the USA, because the mentality isn't one of sound practice, it's one of authority and obedence. > Every day, multitudes drink and > drive when everyone knows it is both against the law and endangers the > lives of everyone on the road. They do so because it's human nature to > do so, in part because people object to authority just as you do. Drunk driving is another issue entirely. The word 'drunk' in and of itself implies unsound thinking. > They > desire to be free to do things their way. Yet they realize that even > though they don't want to be the subject,authority (law enforcement, > government, whatever you want to call it is a necessary "evil" in > keeping society from turning into chaos and anarchy. So then we shouldn't have liberty, or proper ways of doing things. We should have emperors, kings, and dictators. Parents who tell us what is right and what is wrong. The hell with liberty and the hell with the republic then. The fact you see no problem with definining what the majority of the people find to be safe and reasonable as illegal shows that you want rule by authority, obedence. You don't want a republic, you don't want liberty. You want a police state where some overlord uses force to demand obedence. > Still, you want to let people drive on the honor system. Even you have > admitted that you have no honor when it comes to obeying the traffic > laws. Your personal deity, the Autobahn, as good as it is, can not get > all the people to comply with your honor system. The people have voted with their right foot. BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE. Not by the elite for good of the people. > To believe that society can exist without some level of controls in > every aspect of their lives is idiocy of the first order. People, > while ideally they might wish for less, should feel fortunate that > there is as little enforcement in the United States as there is. Read documents like: The Constitution of the United States of America. The Bill of Rights. The Federalist Papers. Then get back to me. > Police State? You have never lived under a true Police State. Not even > close. We are headed there. We already get the checkpoints here in Chicago. The TSA searches, the patriot act, etc and so forth. Most of the tools are in place for one. All we need now is an event and someone to take power. A 3kiloton suitcase nuke in a large city and we might be crowning King George the first. Just keep obeying orders. Maybe you'll get to be the cop that hawls me away to the re-education facility or gets to stuff me in the rail car in a few years time. > In article <b0vi611ljhdnsg005cos6lb9t5gvh3ti0h@4ax.com>, Spike > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Nice strawman. How about reasonable rules that people obey because > they are REASONABLE instead of just because someone on high says so. Newsflash: If it's a law, then you either obey it or risk the consequences if you're caught breaking it. Don't like it? Change it. > Or because the man with the gun says so. Someone says the speed > limit change is wrong and unreasonable. A cop type responds 'the law > is the law, obey'. Figure it out. Nothing to figure out. If it's a law and you break it, you take the consequences. Simple. > Law enforcement types consistantly don't respect the concepts of > liberty and rule by the people for the people. They are consistantly > in the camps of people who think that kings and emperors and other > self proclaimed elites should decide what's best for all of us. > Occasionally there is one that believes in the tyranny of courts or > tyranny of the majority. Brent, you're living on another planet. Stop playing video games and get back down to earth. >> People push the limits every day. If the speed limit is 55 they >> push for 65. If it's |
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