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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / April 2005'66 Mustang
Does anyone here know much about the older 'Stangs or is it all for the new ones? K. There are a few of us vintage owners around. Whacha wanna know? Erich 66 coupe proud second owner since 1978 69 Mach1 perpetual project > Does anyone here know much about the older 'Stangs or is it all for the > new ones? > > K. Whew! Okay, I have one major question. I know absolutely nothing about watercooled vehicles. Only aircooled (VWs). I just picked up a 66 Mustang today. There is a problem with the engine (and thanks to an owner who didn't know what a potential gem he had, sold it to me dirt cheap). It will start, but it will only run for a minute and die. It will always turn over and crank, but it just won't continue to run. My first thought was maybe it isn't getting enough gas, but it doesn't make the typical glug glug gurgle gurgle pfffft sound I have come to know as fuel issues. It sounds great on start up, then just dies. It still gets power though. I'm sure there are a million and 1 reasons for this, but could we come up with a starting point of things for me to check? I had a cracked distributor cap once on a van and it did this. The engine is from a '77, and I'm pretty sure it's a 351, but I could be wrong. Any ideas on a starting point to search for the issue? I will have many more questions to come, especially about that disgusting interior. :) Thanks in advance, Kidd > There are a few of us vintage owners around. > Whacha wanna know? > > Erich > 66 coupe proud second owner since 1978 > 69 Mach1 perpetual project Plugged carb or fuel filter? > Whew! Okay, I have one major question. I know absolutely nothing about > watercooled vehicles. Only aircooled (VWs). I just picked up a 66 [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > 66 coupe proud second owner since 1978 > > 69 Mach1 perpetual project I had the same problem with my 1966 Econoline, I also thought it was a fuel problem but it was an ignition failure, points were badly burned. I replaced spark plugs, points and condensor, after this the problem never returned. Erik > Whew! Okay, I have one major question. I know absolutely nothing about > watercooled vehicles. Only aircooled (VWs). I just picked up a 66 [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> 66 coupe proud second owner since 1978 >> 69 Mach1 perpetual project >I had the same problem with my 1966 Econoline, I also thought it was a >fuel problem but it was an ignition failure, points were badly burned. I [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >>> 66 coupe proud second owner since 1978 >>> 69 Mach1 perpetual project And when talk turns to ignition and early Mustangs, we know the next topic is probably Pertronix. ;) Take a look at the Ignitor and IgnitorII systems: http://www.vintageperformance.com/retrorockets/PerTronixConversions.htm (That link is not an endorsement of the seller, just one of the first links that came up in a search.) Other increasingly involved options are the Duraspark route and many aftermarket sytems. I've got a Ford Motorsport electronic ignition (made by MSD) in my '65 and it was well worth it. I haven't had to adjust or replace anything since I installed it. Even if your problem isn't the ignition, an upgrade is something to consider. DP Pics of the cars: http://tinyurl.com/4fcsn >I had the same problem with my 1966 Econoline, I also thought it was a fuel >problem but it was an ignition failure, points were badly burned. I >replaced spark plugs, points and condensor, after this the problem never >returned. It could also be the choke is too tight if it's cold out. It'll start hard, then run a few seconds, then fall flat on it's face.  SignatureScott W. '66 HCS Mustang 289 '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ > It could also be the choke is too tight if it's cold out. It'll start hard, > then run a few seconds, then fall flat on it's face. I live in Florida. Cold is rarely an issue. Especially in April. :) Kidd Welcome, and you picked a good group of helpful people (although there are some who are... welllll anyway.... stick around and you'll soon see...) If it is ignition system.... I highly endorse conversion to electronic ignition, no matter what brand (Pertronix, MSD, etc). You can either go with a complete distributor, or just use upgrade components (the way I went). If you go with the upgrade; keeping the old distributor and replacing the points with a module; SAVE A SET OF POINTS and toss 'em in your tool kit in a Ziploc. That way, if the module ever fails, in a few minutes you can be back to points long enough to get you to a parts store and a new module. That said... the first thing you need to do is identify that power plant. And we have some experts on identifying the 351. I'm not one of them : ) >Does anyone here know much about the older 'Stangs or is it all for the >new ones? > >K. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Welcome, and you picked a good group of helpful people (although there > are some who are... welllll anyway.... stick around and you'll soon > see...) Hehe. I happened to notice already. > If you go with the upgrade; keeping the old distributor and replacing > the points with a module; SAVE A SET OF POINTS and toss 'em in your > tool kit in a Ziploc. That way, if the module ever fails, in a few > minutes you can be back to points long enough to get you to a parts > store and a new module. Good idea. Will do. > That said... the first thing you need to do is identify that power > plant. And we have some experts on identifying the 351. I'm not one of > them : ) I did a little poking around and now I'm thinking it's a 302. Hell, I dunno! I wish the guy had just left the 289 in it but spit happens. I'm not completely sure how to tell by looking what the difference is yet. I'm way out of my element on this, but I'm willing to learn. If you (or anyone) has helpful hints or brand suggestions for a newbie, feel free to pass them my way! Kidd >>Does anyone here know much about the older 'Stangs or is it all for the >>new ones? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" > w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 If no one has mentioned it yet.... the 351 firing order is different from the 289/302, the heads are taller. there's more, but it's for sure not the engine I am familiar with. In fact, I'm just getting back into the 289 after a bunch of years with a 350 EFI in my 91 TransAM GTA... and a 305 Camaro before that. My last 289 was back in 70/71, and I had a 302 in 74. So, I'm back in the re-learning phase. 302 is a very common swap. Easier to do than build up a 289. Just go to about any wrecking yard. The 351 is also pretty common in a 65/66 because, without cutting away the shock towers it's about as big as you can get in there before the change in 67 which allowed for 390s and more. While questions get answered or assistance gets rendered pretty quickly around her, sometimes it can lag a bit, so if no answer comes in right away, you aren't being ignored. And sometimes you may have to ask again for help. Once you get to know who to go to, you'll be able to go right to the sources. >> Welcome, and you picked a good group of helpful people (although there >> are some who are... welllll anyway.... stick around and you'll soon >> see...) > >Hehe. I happened to notice already. And that's just one....: ) >> If you go with the upgrade; keeping the old distributor and replacing >> the points with a module; SAVE A SET OF POINTS and toss 'em in your [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" >> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > If no one has mentioned it yet.... the 351 firing order is different > from the 289/302, the heads are taller. It's the same exact head. The block deck height is taller. > and a 305 Camaro before that. Boat Anchor! LMAO! SignatureScott W. '66 HCS Mustang 289 '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W Former owner of an '83 Z-28 T-top SB400 swap. Dumped the boat anchor! ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ you're right, I misspoke.... like I said the 351 isn't what I am most familiar with. >> If no one has mentioned it yet.... the 351 firing order is different >> from the 289/302, the heads are taller. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Boat Anchor! LMAO! Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 Hey, when the ex leaves you the bills and support to pay and cleans out the bank accounts, you're lucky if you can afford wheels. The 72 'stang had a CJ in it when I got it back in 1974. When the gas crunch hit, I ended up with a 4V 302 Mustang II that was a major dog. Flip on the AC (I lived in the desert) and you'd swear you'd thrown it in reverse. I've had some good ones and some bad ones. Oh, well. Look at me now... I get a 65 restored and it's an A Code (4V) and what happens? Gas goes through the roof..... At least I have the 97 Escort Beatermobile.... all 30+ mpg, broken down seats and all.... LOL >> If no one has mentioned it yet.... the 351 firing order is different >> from the 289/302, the heads are taller. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Boat Anchor! LMAO! Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Hey, when the ex leaves you the bills and support to pay and cleans > out the bank accounts, you're lucky if you can afford wheels. Ouch. I get a 65 restored and it's an A Code (4V) and what > happens? Gas goes through the roof..... At least I have the 97 Escort > Beatermobile.... all 30+ mpg, broken down seats and all.... LOL Is there where I admit that I have a Honda Civic ricer for my daily driver? :D Kidd Careful.... don't even admit you KNOW someone who drives a ricer.... LOL : ) That kind of financial crunch is more normal than not... so the only dealer close by and who was willing to work with me, out in the middle of the Corn Field, Indiana, happened to be a Chevy dealer. I too the deal and was glad of it. Things have much improved since then. Still, $3 a gallon isn't cheap. Could be worse. My neighbor has a Hummer and a drag ski boat with dual tanks. The attendants at the Chevron station line up and cheer every time the pump bell goes "DING".... : ) >> Hey, when the ex leaves you the bills and support to pay and cleans >> out the bank accounts, you're lucky if you can afford wheels. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Kidd Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > That kind of financial crunch is more normal than not... so the only > dealer close by and who was willing to work with me, out in the middle > of the Corn Field, Indiana, happened to be a Chevy dealer. Hey, I've been there! I was raised in the Corn Field, Indiana! lol Kidd Ah, yes....Circustown, IN, where everything has a circus theme, even McDucks..... Where my took shed is larger than the Foster's Freeze. >> That kind of financial crunch is more normal than not... so the only >> dealer close by and who was willing to work with me, out in the middle >> of the Corn Field, Indiana, happened to be a Chevy dealer. >Hey, I've been there! I was raised in the Corn Field, Indiana! lol > >Kidd Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > If no one has mentioned it yet.... the 351 firing order is different > from the 289/302, the heads are taller. Actually the 351 Windsor and the 302 use for the most part identical heads, dimension wise anyway. The blocks and innards are where the differences are. > there's more, but it's for > sure not the engine I am familiar with. In fact, I'm just getting back [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" > w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >>If no one has mentioned it yet.... the 351 firing order is different >>from the 289/302, the heads are taller. > > Actually the 351 Windsor and the 302 use for the most part identical heads, > dimension wise anyway. The blocks and innards are where the differences > are. Head bolts are different sized diameters on 302 and 351W. You need special adapter washers to put 351W heads on a 302. >>> If no one has mentioned it yet.... the 351 firing order is different >>> from the 289/302, the heads are taller. I finally got it all figured out now. It's actually a 289 2V that obviously wasn't original to the 77 it was pulled from. The '66 used to have an inline 6. The engine was changed but the suspension and the rest never was. That will be something to do once I get the engine running right. Thanks for all the help. Kidd I certainly appreciate the help. Most of the guys I know just laugh when I ask questions because they assume a girl doesn't know how to hold a wrench properly. I can hold a wrench *and* a gun properly, so they rarely laugh for long. :) My wrenches have just never touched anything besides a Beetle before. And they won't touch my Mustang either unless I want to convert every nut and bolt to metric. Hehe. Kidd > While questions get answered or assistance gets rendered pretty > quickly around her, sometimes it can lag a bit, so if no answer comes > in right away, you aren't being ignored. And sometimes you may have to > ask again for help. Once you get to know who to go to, you'll be able > to go right to the sources. Kidd A wrote: > I did a little poking around and now > I'm thinking it's a 302. Hell, I > dunno! I wish the guy had just left > the 289 in it but spit happens. I'm > not completely sure how to tell by > looking what the difference is yet. No Mustangs from '73 up -- other than the super rare Cobra R -- had 351's. A 351 is a tall deck version of a 289/302/5.0. A practiced eye can tell by looking at the valley casting at the distributor area. The 351 is taller by about an inch, and as I recall there is a vertical ridge cast into the 351 that is absent in the others. In a '66 Mustang, a newbie can make a good guess by looking at the clearance to the shock towers. If there's about an inch of clearance it's a 289/302/5/0. If it looks reaaallly tight, it's a 351. 180 Out I'll look again and try to figure it out (while scratching my head and pretending to know what the hell I'm doing). He said he took this engine from a '77 because he wanted more power. However, he also said it didn't deliver what he wanted. I just want to get this one running nicely first but I think in the end I'm going to want something that can help me leave the little punks down the street and their suped up Neons in the dust. I did it with a '68 beetle, only after putting a Porsche engine in it though (okay, I cheated, so what?). I want my American muscle to be on steroids, if ya know what I mean. But I'll just stick with this one for now until I find my feet. Kidd In a '66 Mustang, a > newbie can make a good guess by looking at the clearance to the shock > towers. If there's about an inch of clearance it's a 289/302/5/0. If > it looks reaaallly tight, it's a 351. > > 180 Out > I'll look again and try to figure it out (while scratching my head and > pretending to know what the hell I'm doing). He said he took this engine > from a '77 because he wanted more power. And the year of production has anything to do with it? No offense, but your friend sounds pretty dumb when it comes to this kinda thing. It's all about how the motor is built. I'm not an expert on the details of production differences from year to year, but (stock vs stock) I would think that a 351 from 69-70 would have a bit more than one from the middle of the gas crisis with all the emissions requirements. If it was just so he could put in a 351, then yes, it would have more power automatically because of the 62 ci increase. The year of production wouldn't play into it. > However, he also said it didn't deliver what he wanted. I just want to get > this one running nicely first but I think in the end I'm going to want [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > my American muscle to be on steroids, if ya know what I mean. But I'll > just stick with this one for now until I find my feet. If the motor is solid and just needs rebuilt and you want steroids for it. Check out stroker kits. Nobody knows you have the extra cubes but you and your engine builder. (wink, wink) So it'll look bone stock, but blow'em away on the street. The 351 in my '69 is actually closer to 400. But the punks in their turbo Eclipses don't know it. Pop the hood and all you see is a small block V8 with a K&N. hee hee. SignatureScott W. '66 HCS Mustang 289 '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ > And the year of production has anything to do with it? No offense, but your > friend sounds pretty dumb when it comes to this kinda thing. I thought that had already been established when he sold me a quite solid '66 for $600? lol It became more than apparent to me after I looked at it and made a comment about how dirty it was and he dropped his price in half. For a $1 bottle of soap he could have kept his 1200. If it was just so he could put in a > 351, then yes, it would have more power automatically because of the 62 ci > increase. The year of production wouldn't play into it. Like I said, I don't know squat about them. If it's not a 1600 cc pancake engine, I'm lost. That's what he told me. He didn't have any help back then and he was young. I figure he just kinda learned as he went along (and didn't do much learnin' I guess). > If the motor is solid and just needs rebuilt and you want steroids for it. > Check out stroker kits. Nobody knows you have the extra cubes but you and > your engine builder. (wink, wink) Me and my engine builder... that would make it me and... me. :) So it'll look bone stock, but blow'em away > on the street. That's exactly what I want. They like to tease, especially female drivers, and always assume they can beat anyone. My Honda *cringe* is fairly hard to beat, but they'll never see it coming in a '66. The element of surprise... ahhh gotta love it. Kidd Kidd A wrote: > I did a little poking around and now > I'm thinking it's a 302. Hell, I > dunno! I wish the guy had just left > the 289 in it but spit happens. I'm > not completely sure how to tell by > looking what the difference is yet. No Mustangs from '74 up -- other than the super rare Cobra R -- had 351's. A 351 is a tall deck version of a 289/302/5.0. A practiced eye can tell by looking at the valley casting at the distributor area. The 351 is taller by about an inch, and as I recall there is a vertical ridge cast into the 351 that is absent in the others. In a '66 Mustang, a newbie can make a good guess by looking at the clearance to the shock towers. If there's about an inch of clearance it's a 289/302/5/0. If it looks reaaallly tight, it's a 351. 180 Out See. I said there would be good people who knew better than me.... : ) >> Welcome, and you picked a good group of helpful people (although there >> are some who are... welllll anyway.... stick around and you'll soon [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" >> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > See. I said there would be good people who knew better than me.... : ) At least you tried! :) Kidd Looks like you are getting some good info from the group, but there is another list you could also try, which focuses on classic mustangs. You can sign-up here: http://lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs Michel. > Does anyone here know much about the older 'Stangs or is it all for the > new ones? > > K. > Looks like you are getting some good info from the group, but there is > another list you could also try, which focuses on classic mustangs. You can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Michel. Thanks. I'll check that out. I hopefully can find a club or something in my area. Once in awhile I see a bunch of classics out at the Wal-Mart parking lot with the hoods up. I've seen some 'O' inducing machinery there (pardon me). I'd like to be able to proudly display my 'Stang there at some point too, but as bad a shape as my Lenore is in right now it's gonna be awhile! Kidd |
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