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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / May 2005289 or a big block?
My mustang currently has a 289 in it and I was wondering how hard a big block conversion would be or if I should just build the 289? thanks > My mustang currently has a 289 in it and I was wondering how hard a big > block conversion would be or if I should just build the 289? thanks It's not that hard, but it will cost you. I did the same thing with myh 68 fastback--took a 289 car and put a 390 in it. If you check my website, http://www.tucsonpony.com/Trouble you'll see what I had to do. Basically, change motor mounts, put in shock tower supports, change brackets, suspension, etc. Nothing that's really difficult, of course, but you want to make a thorough change so that the car will support and handle the weight of the big block properly. For example, I went with the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and lightened the front end quite a bit that way. I also moved the battery to the trunk to offset the heavy nose. The more you can do to lighten the load, the better off you will be in terms of handling. -------------- Laurie S. Thunder Snake #7 > My mustang currently has a 289 in it and I was wondering how hard a big > block conversion would be or if I should just build the 289? thanks I have a '68 coupe with a 289 2V that I am wrestling with that question, too. What year is yours? My mechanic said that the timing chain is getting bad on mine, and it's got almost 100,000 miles so I believe that the motor is really due for a rebuild. A racing shop in town says that they can put a stroker kit into the 289 and do a performance build for about $3900 giving me around 300 horsepower at the rear wheel. Not bad at all... But for $5900 I can get a 460 with 550 HP and 545 ft/lbs at http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=6587. Of course, that means that I need to showhorn a C6 transmission in and then swap the rear for a 31-spline 9" so it's going to be really expensive by the time all is said and done. I have also thought about getting a cheap rebuilt motor from here: http://www.rebuilt-auto-engines.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_main.html?catid=119&eid= 119202&sid=1AlF2z1Ew5TKEbH-02105595755.f6 but again that would mean a C6 and a 9" rear end, so it would not be cheap. This would allow me to at least get a big block in, then I could build the engine in less expensive stages. By the way, Crites has the parts you need at http://www.critesrestoration.com/mustang.htm. Thomas > I have a '68 coupe with a 289 2V that I am wrestling with that question, > too. What year is yours? My mechanic said that the timing chain is getting > bad on mine, and it's got almost 100,000 miles so I believe that the motor > is really due for a rebuild. A racing shop in town says that they can put a > stroker kit into the 289 and do a performance build for about $3900 giving > me around 300 horsepower at the rear wheel. Not bad at all... But for > $5900 I can get a 460 with 550 HP and 545 ft/lbs at > http://www.fordracingparts.com /parts/part_details.asp?PartKe yField=6587. Of > course, that means that I need to showhorn a C6 transmission in and then > swap the rear for a 31-spline 9" so it's going to be really expensive by the > time all is said and done. That is an acute case of the "might-as-wells," going from an ailing timing chain (a one-day, $100 job) to a 460/C6/31 spline 9". :-) My idea for a low bux package is to start with a cheapo 302 short block with forged pistons and 9:1 CR, then add a centrifugal blower. I'd use a carb and one of these "hat" things. http://www.sd-concepts.com/Carbhathats.htm This combo would run $4500-5000, and would produce 400 rwhp -- more than enough for a '65 Mustang -- without destroying the handling like a big block will do. 180 Out It has been suggested in some circles to do a 347 stroker kit with the 289 rather than a total swap. Just a thought. >My mustang currently has a 289 in it and I was wondering how hard a big >block conversion would be or if I should just build the 289? thanks Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > It has been suggested in some circles to do a 347 stroker kit with the > 289 rather than a total swap. Just a thought. Can you actually do the 347 on a 289? Prewitt Racing here in Austin said that the 289 stroked was 331 (which I'd never heard). Thomas It's what I was advised to do rather than swap for a 351. I have done neither, so I can't say first hand. But it does seem that I have read in the kit description in one of the many catalogs (Ford Racing, Summit, Jegs, etc) that it can be done. I would be doing a lot of investigation and consulting engine shops (more than one) before making the move. >> It has been suggested in some circles to do a 347 stroker kit with the >> 289 rather than a total swap. Just a thought. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Thomas Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Can you actually do the 347 on a 289? Prewitt Racing here in Austin said > that the 289 stroked was 331 (which I'd never heard). I can see 331, but I don't think there's enough deck to do a 347. I think the assembled height would be too tall (barely).  SignatureScott W. '66 HCS Mustang 289 '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ No disagreement. Like I said, it was suggested to me, but I didn't go that route. My 289 is rebuilt as the 289 A Code it was in the beginning. >> Can you actually do the 347 on a 289? Prewitt Racing here in Austin said >> that the 289 stroked was 331 (which I'd never heard). > >I can see 331, but I don't think there's enough deck to do a 347. I think >the assembled height would be too tall (barely). Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 I just checked the Ford Racing engine listing and it lists : Stroker Short Block (www.cjponyparts.com) 2 bolt 302 HD Sportsman Block in either 342 (M6009A342) $2499.95 347 (M6009A347) $2499.95 302 Stroker Kits (www.cjponyparts.com) fitting 1983-00 302 blocks w/ 1 piece rear seal -342 CID Standard Bore $724.95 -347 CID .030" Over $1099.95 -Forged 347 CID $1694.95 As for rebuilds (www.cjponyparts.com) -65-67 289 $2099.95* -68-74 302 $1799.95* -69-73 351W $2349.95* * plus core and freight Of course, there is the 5.0L Cammer Modular Engine for a paltry $14,449.95. >> Can you actually do the 347 on a 289? Prewitt Racing here in Austin said >> that the 289 stroked was 331 (which I'd never heard). > >I can see 331, but I don't think there's enough deck to do a 347. I think >the assembled height would be too tall (barely). Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 Ah, yes, there is also the Paxton 64-68 SB Supercharger for $2699.95 : ) >> Can you actually do the 347 on a 289? Prewitt Racing here in Austin said >> that the 289 stroked was 331 (which I'd never heard). > >I can see 331, but I don't think there's enough deck to do a 347. I think >the assembled height would be too tall (barely). Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > It has been suggested in some circles to do a 347 stroker kit with the > 289 rather than a total swap. If the 289 is a good solid builder block, I wouldn't turn it into a stroker. Good 289 blocks are impossible to find these days. Most are bored to hell, cracked, or rusted beyond belief. If you want a sleeper motor, then drop in a stroker 351W. Take it out to 427 and it'll still bolt right in. BB displacement from a SB. Or you can run a more economical stroker 351 like I did. 393 stroker- the only part that isn't bone stock is the crankshaft. You use the original 351 rods and use 302 pistons. I saved over $1k by doing it this way. SignatureScott W. '66 HCS Mustang 289 '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ > you can run a more economical stroker 351 like I > did. 393 stroker- the only part that isn't bone stock is the crankshaft. You > use the original 351 rods and use 302 pistons. I saved over $1k by doing it > this way. Scott, OE rods and pistons and a $220 steel stroker crank (as referenced on your web site) have definitely got my attention. I wonder if you could price list the whole deal, or at least broken down into major categories like rotating assembly, machine work, etc. Any tips on scoring a junkyard 351? 180 Out > Scott, OE rods and pistons and a $220 steel stroker crank (as > referenced on your web site) have definitely got my attention. I wonder > if you could price list the whole deal, or at least broken down into > major categories like rotating assembly, machine work, etc. Any tips on > scoring a junkyard 351? It'd be hard to say EXACTLY what each step cost. First, I haven't recieved the final invoice from the builder, and second, I did more than just the stroker. Here's the engine specs and other minor details... 351W .060" OB. [Came with the car] 3.85" stroke crank (CHP's 393 crank) [new $220] D0 heads-ported, polished, roller rockers, new pushrods and valves [rebuilt] 12cc dish cast 302 pistons (compression set at 9.5:1, confirmed by burette on all 8 cyls.) [new $100] Camshaft& Lifter kit- Comp Cams grind XE262EH [new $325] adv duration in-262 ex-270 (@.050 in-218 ex-224). Valve lift in-.493 ex-.50 Edelbrock Performer intake [came with car] Edelbrock 650 CFM 4bbl carb (rejetted and metered for altitude in Denver) [new $280] 1" 4-hole spacer [new $20] Engine balance- $150. You HAVE to balance stroker's. Without the balance, my 351 would have flown apart by now. For everything including R&R of the motor itself; machining, balancing, honing, notching the block and slight mods to the oil pan, rebuilding the heads. All told it cost me ~$4000. On actually FINDING a block? Well, check with the local club guys and just start asking around. There's GOTTA be some wierd old guy who hordes blocks (CJ comes to mind). Just kidding TS#1. That's where I found the 302 block currently sitting in my Ranchero. I think I paid $100 for it, then had it rebuilt. That build cost me $3200, installed. That block will end up going in my '66 if I ever get around to it (or never if I sell it [the car] first). You might have a local mass rebuilder who'd be willing to sell you a bare used block that's already been machined. There's a local Co. here in Denver called Ridge Reamer. You walk into their warehouse and it's just crammed full of engines. Complete, incomplete, bare blocks, ready to build, just pulled and needs everything. etc. You walk in and tell'em what you want and they'll get it. They have some pretty rare stuff too. Some fairly decent 428 blocks. Sweet! Maybe you can find someplace like this locally. But I'd still start with the clubs. SignatureScott W. '66 HCS Mustang 289 '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ Thanks for all the info, Scott. The wheels are definitely turning. Now if I can just convince the wife that 400 rwhp would be a safety feature for a 16 year old driver. 180 Out I agree, 351W stroked to 427ci, or 393ci (budget depending). I think a full engine with afr heads was advertised in the last mustang monthly for about 8k USD, assembled, and dynoed. Seems like lots of cash, but not bad when you consider all new parts and a quality machining ; 8k comes pretty quick... Altho I have to say that I have not done a 351w stroker yet. I did a 347 a while back using a probe kit. Easy as pie once you have all the pieces. I also agree with the leaving the 289 block intact. Find a junkyard 351w (aka 'seasoned') block and build up from there. A good 351 truck block that has not been bored will have been through enough temp cycles to make it strong (or it would likely have broken already). >>It has been suggested in some circles to do a 347 stroker kit with the >>289 rather than a total swap. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > use the original 351 rods and use 302 pistons. I saved over $1k by doing it > this way. > I agree, 351W stroked to 427ci, or 393ci (budget depending). I think > a full engine with afr heads was advertised in the last mustang monthly [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > block that has not been bored will have been through enough temp cycles > to make it strong (or it would likely have broken already). The Ford 393 crate motor is a heck of a deal. You won't get that kind of quality at a cheaper price anywhere. I purchased my 427W short block from PAW. Some assembly required. Good price, excellent machine work, quality parts, and no surprises. Coast High is probably a better product, but at a higher price (as you would expect). If I was building a race motor, that's what I would have used. .boB 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged! 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1966 FFR Cobra - Ongoing project Does the FRPP engine come balanced? And I mean a real balance, not the factory 'get it mostly close' balance. Even if it didnt, I suppose you could disassemble and send out for a balance at a local quality shop. >> I agree, 351W stroked to 427ci, or 393ci (budget depending). I >> think a full engine with afr heads was advertised in the last mustang [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver > 1966 FFR Cobra - Ongoing project > Does the FRPP engine come balanced? And I mean a real balance, not > the factory 'get it mostly close' balance. Even if it didnt, I suppose > you could disassemble and send out for a balance at a local quality shop. They say it is balanced to a pretty tight tolerance, but can't remember exactly what that is. Signature.boB 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged! 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1966 FFR Cobra - Ongoing project > cprice@here.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > They say it is balanced to a pretty tight tolerance, but can't remember > exactly what that is. Even the 392/393 stroker would scatter itself in short order without a balance. I know. You should see the flywheel for mine. Holy Crap!!! I've never seen so much weight before. SignatureScott W. '66 HCS Mustang 289 '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ That makes sense. I know that some of the FRPP stuff (5.0 replacement shortblocks) don't have a true balance job. They get the reciprocating assembly components very close, but not nearly as accurate as a precision balance. I have taken original 5.0's apart for a re-ring and had the reciprocating assembly sent out for balance and the con rods (most of em anyways) and crank always come back with some material removed. The shops I use always provide me with a 'report card' for the balance results. >>> Does the FRPP engine come balanced? And I mean a real balance, not >>>the factory 'get it mostly close' balance. Even if it didnt, I suppose [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > balance. I know. You should see the flywheel for mine. Holy Crap!!! I've > never seen so much weight before. As far as I know, you can't fit anything larger than a smallblock in a '65 - '66 without a considerable amount of sheetmetal modification. If you want big block cubes in a smallblock form factor then the 427 stroker is the way to go. Built on a 351W block, it will fit nicely between your shock towers and with 427 cubic inches it should satisfy your need for torque and horsepower. As an added bonus, you won't have to pay the weight penalty that you would with a bigblock. Coast High Performance advertises a kit to do this and many other vendors, I'm sure, offer similar packages. Richard up in Canada 65 GT350 replica > My mustang currently has a 289 in it and I was wondering how hard a big > block conversion would be or if I should just build the 289? thanks > My mustang currently has a 289 in it and I was wondering how hard a big > block conversion would be or if I should just build the 289? thanks Replace the front suspension with the Mustang II or Fat Man kit. Look in any Mustang periodical. Cut the shock towers out and put a bad a.s big block in there! Pick up a 460 for cheap and build it up, or order it directly from Ford Racing as a crate engine. A toploader, a 9" rear end, traction bars, some wide sticky tires and spiffy wheels, reinforce the frame, headers, an X-pipe, and some Ford truck mufflers. Leave the 289 emblems on and go hunting for some vettes! :-) Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha SignatureJohn ThunderSnake #59 Seems like it would almost be easier to transplant the badges to a Viper.... : ) LOL >> My mustang currently has a 289 in it and I was wondering how hard a big >> block conversion would be or if I should just build the 289? thanks [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 I agree 100%, but you wouldn't have a Mustang or the pride of the build! SignatureJohn ThunderSnake #59 > Seems like it would almost be easier to transplant the badges to a > Viper.... : ) LOL [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" > w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 That's true. Which is why I have the 65 Fastback instead of a new BMW or whatever. A used car lot right down the street did have a Viper. Just not enough room for the family and luggage. The local Indian casino bought it and gave it away as a bingo prize. Probably won by some blue haired little ol' lady who was bussed in from the retirement home. >I agree 100%, but you wouldn't have a Mustang or the pride of the build! Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 A used car lot right down the street did have a Viper. > Just not enough room for the family and luggage. The local Indian > casino bought it and gave it away as a bingo prize. Probably won by > some blue haired little ol' lady who was bussed in from the retirement > home. But parked in her rickety old garage Is a brand new shiny red super-stock Dodge. And everybody's saying there's nobody meaner Than the little old lady from pasadena She drives real fast and she drives real hard She's a terror out on colorado boulevard It's the little old lady from pasadena -- Jan Berry, 1964 180 Out I have that LP. Bought it new when it was first released. Back when we used to go sidewalk surfin' and hit the nicest people with a Honda.... errrr... met the nicest people on a Honda.... Now, I'm replacing all the old LP's and cassettes with CDs the way I did with my 8 Track collection when 8 Tracks died. And I'm just as apt to listen to Dr Hook.... Come on babies grease yer lips grab yer hats and swing your hips an' don't forget to bring yer whips we're going to the Freakers Ball However, I did pick up a really nice Beachboys anthology set.... just for old time sake... : ) >A used car lot right down the street did have a Viper. >> Just not enough room for the family and luggage. The local Indian [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >180 Out Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 |
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