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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / May 2005Idiotic "mechanics"
I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K miles or so. For some reason, their computer does not show correct capacity and they often put in too much oil. I've been double checking myself after changes and ask them to drain the excess. Last week, one of the mechanics went off on me saying "Why do you always come back with problems!!???". I told him to chill and not to blame me for their mistakes. I also advised that they simply check the level before giving me the car back. He started to tell me that they put in a little more oil since the filter absorbs some. When I told him that most techs I know fill the new filter with oil prior to install, he totally flipped and started yelling at me again ... :"We do hundreds of changes a week ...and you are telling ME how to CHANGE OIL!!". Am I crazy? Ever since my HS auto shop class (30 years ago) I was told that it's a good idea to fill new filters with oil. In any case, I'm just so frustrated that since I no longer have time or space to change my own oil, even paying someone else to do it becomes a f----ing production! Ron W. 2000 GT 'vert black >I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat >upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >2000 GT 'vert black you better check the shop manual LMFAO it CLEARLY states oil above the fill line on dipstick is acceptable and no u dont fill filters ( gas engines) what happens when the filter is perpindicular to the block YA FOCTARD GET SOME CERTIFICATION OR FOCK OFF hurc ast > I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat > upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > 2000 GT 'vert black Guy sounds like a real prick. My suggestion is find a different shop. I mean, if you've continuously had to take it back and have them drain the excess, then they bitch you out because they can't do something as simple as oil changes right, screw em. They obviously don't need your money. Take it to someone who does. K. > I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat > upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > 2000 GT 'vert black You should fill the filter 1/2 way with oil. Since it isn't straight up, you can't fill it all the way. Run the engine for a few minutes. Shut it off and check for leaks. Wait a little while, and check the level. Been doing it that way for decades, with dozens of vehicles. On a side note, it doesn't sound like that mechanic wants your business any longer. If somebody I was paying to do work for me actually yelled at me, they would see my back one last time.  Signature.boB 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged! 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1966 FFR Cobra - Ongoing project Seems strange that they remembers a single car out of the "hundreds" of oil changes they do. And this is the only time they have gotten upset with you? While I might suggest changing shops, if you have been continuously going back to a shop where you have to get them to correct their work, I'd say that part is on you. You know... the thing about burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me..... While it is totally wrong to go off on a customer... even when they are in the wrong (because they spread the word that people should not do business with you and that hurts) it may be the guy just had a bad day. Maybe his wife just had him served for divorce, or his business is going under.... whatever... Just find someplace else. I check with various people I know about the best places to go are. Of course, I change my own oil. >I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat >upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >2000 GT 'vert black Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 I don't see why you cannot change your oil. I have for years even when I lived in an apartment with no assigned parking. I just got all my supplies before hand and changed it in the parking lot.I did make sure that I always left the area clean if I spilled any oil I made sure to clean it up. I have seen others actually do it in the parking lot of the auto parts store and return the oil for recycling. I have never pre-filled a filter only wiped the rubber seal with the old oil so that it would seal better. All of my vehicles went well over 150,000+ miles my Ford Taurus was still running strong at 250,000+ when I sold it. Gary > Seems strange that they remembers a single car out of the "hundreds" > of oil changes they do. And this is the only time they have gotten [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" > w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 |I don't see why you cannot change your oil. *snip* Some of us don't WANT to DIY... how's that? Personally, I don't like to have to store and then haul the used oil to the recycling place. I like that they lube everything,, vacuum the mats and wash the windshield check all the other levels, fill the fluids and so on.. Kate >I don't see why you cannot change your oil. I have for years even when I >lived in an apartment with no assigned parking. I just got all my supplies [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I have never pre-filled a filter only wiped the rubber seal with the old oil >so that it would seal better. Actually that has nothing to with sealing better. The filter will seal just as good either way. HOWEVER, if yo don't lube the o-ring, man have fun trying to get that filter back off =) -- Stephan 2001 Yamaha YZF-R6 <unixzip@yahoo.com> wrote in message *snipped* | Last week, one of the mechanics went off on me saying "Why do you | always come back with problems!!???". You let him get away with this? . When I told him that most techs I know | fill the new filter with oil prior to install, he totally flipped and | started yelling at me again ... :"We do hundreds of changes a week | ...and you are telling ME how to CHANGE OIL!!". The guy still doesn't have a fat lip, and you still have not called their corporate HQ...???!! | Am I crazy? No Ron, you are acting more like a doormat. Find a different place to take your car. There must be another lube shop around. Kate Just to add some perspective..... spend some time on the opposite side of the counter for a while. Most techs that I know do their absolute best to perform top notch work... in spite of constant demands regarding time spent, service performed, payment received and a host of other things "civilians" just don't comprehend. Add the constant bad rap from an unknowing public and the occasional entrapment blitz by some of the media.... I wasn't there so I don't know if "one of the mechanics went off on me saying "Why do you| always come back with problems!!???" or if it was a simple question. Just yesterday, one of our apprentices us changing oil on a Honda and noticed a bad front wheel bearing.... customer dumps on the spprentice. A couple of weeks ago, customer installs a 60 amp MAX where a 20 amp use to live...... The wiring harness is about $800CA and nearly 12 hours to install....... Customer dumps on the SA. There are two sides to every story..... There is a growing trend for the good shops to "fire" customers before an unpleasant scene develops. It's something I've done in the past and I will continue it in the future. Is there anyone here that can make it through a day without a mistake or four left in their wake? Get a good enough microscope and you can find problems with any task a human has performed. > <unixzip@yahoo.com> wrote in message > *snipped* [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Kate | Just to add some perspective..... spend some time on the opposite side of | the counter for a while. **CHOP**SNIP**TRIM** Hmm... 10 years in the body shop business, three of those as an owner. 15 years in retail, all the way from sales to management. 3 years as tech support and trainer for software companies. Do any of these qualify me as having stood on the other side of the counter? I've NEVER fired a customer. Not that I wouldn't have liked to, but never have. Kate As a business owner I can understand the frustration. And, yes, sometimes you do have to fire the customer as they are costing (by any measure) you more than they are worth. SignatureRichard '94 GT 'vert Under Drive Pulleys Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit High Stall Torque Converter 4:10 Gears Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded) FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft FRPP M5400-A Suspension Laser Red > | Just to add some perspective..... spend some time on the opposite side of > | the counter for a while. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Kate > Just to add some perspective..... spend some time on the opposite side of > the counter for a while. Most techs that I know do their absolute best to > perform top notch work. "Most"? I'm not trying to be insulting, but I'd give it about a one in three chance of finding a "top notch" mechanic. >.. in spite of constant demands regarding time spent, > service performed, payment received and a host of other things "civilians" > just don't comprehend. Add the constant bad rap from an unknowing public and > the occasional entrapment blitz by some of the media.... Sounds like your typical auto tech has to deal with the same crap most other professions have to deal with. And given (at least where I live) the hourly rate for auto work is about the same as many traditional professions, maybe a little tongue biting isn't the end of the world. > Just yesterday, one of our apprentices us changing oil on a Honda and > noticed a bad front wheel bearing.... customer dumps on the spprentice. A > couple of weeks ago, customer installs a 60 amp MAX where a 20 amp use to > live...... The wiring harness is about $800CA and nearly 12 hours to > install....... Customer dumps on the SA. There are two sides to every > story..... How about this: after taking my brand new car (in 2000) back to the dealer at least 5 times regarding a strange whirring sound from the front end, I get the bad cop routine from the service manager, "what's it going to make you happy?" and "you're hearing an aggressive tire design" (heh, I still love that one). 20 minutes after taking it to another dealer, and a new wheel bearing later, the car ran like a dream. You tell me, 'cause in my experience, examples like this aren't all that uncommon. Wanna hear about what the screw driver a Chrysler tech left under the hood did to my new Grand Cherokee back in the day? :) > There is a growing trend for the good shops to "fire" customers before an > unpleasant scene develops. It's something I've done in the past and I will > continue it in the future. One day, you will lament the good old days. Never turn away business for such a trivial cause. > Is there anyone here that can make it through a day without a mistake or > four left in their wake? Get a good enough microscope and you can find > problems with any task a human has performed. Sure, but that's not what the OP described. He described a situation where the mechanic tried to blame the customer for his own negligence. If you can't deal with it when a customer is right and you're wrong, then do something else. SignatureLeo Amery, British Conservative MP, to PM Chamberlain on May 7, 1940: "You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go." >I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat > upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K > miles or so. > For some reason, their computer does not show correct capacity and they > often put in too much oil. I've been double checking myself after > changes and ask them to drain the excess. Judging by the distance between the Add and Full marks/lines being a quart, how much was it overfilled? > Last week, one of the mechanics went off on me saying "Why do you > always come back with problems!!???". I told him to chill and not to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > space to change my own oil, even paying someone else to do it becomes a > f----ing production! SignatureJohn ThunderSnake #59 It was about 2 inches over the MAX line. I live in a small town and don't feel like driving 20 miles to find another shop. Being a nice guy, I would feel bad telling the boss that one of his techs is an a-hole and possibly get the guy fired. I'm sure the poor kid needs the money (why else would you manage the oil change line). Next time I will bring a big sign with "5 QUARTS PLEASE !!" on it. As a side note, I couldn't even locate the oil drain plug on my GT! There is a big bolt under the filter but looks like it's connected to the shaft connecting the front tires. Is that the plug? I always had Chevys, and the plug was right on the pan.... Are there any web sites that show pics of 4.6 engine components???? Oh lord... don't even whine about them not knowing what they are doing if you don't even know where the oil drain plug is! :P -Mike -- Melt away the Cellulite with Cellulean! http://www.MeltAwayCellulite.com/ > It was about 2 inches over the MAX line. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Chevys, and the plug was right on the pan.... > Are there any web sites that show pics of 4.6 engine components???? Dude, with all due respect, I'm past that stage in my life where I have the time to learn about my cars. I work 12 hours a day and have a bunch of kids to run after. If I was still single and in school, I'm sure I would have been under my GT all day long. I'm simply frustrated that I have to shop around for a simple oil change! I do in fact still have steel ramps that I used to raise my old Chevys, BUT the Mustang bumper is so low that it hits the ramp when I try to drive up it. Anyone dealt with this? Are there special ramps with different profiles??? > I do in fact still have steel ramps that I used to raise my old Chevys, > BUT the Mustang bumper is so low that it hits the ramp when I try to > drive up it. Anyone dealt with this? Are there special ramps with > different profiles??? I'm pretty sure that Rhino Ramps have a shallower angle than the old-style metal ramps. Or, you can make your own out of dimensional lumber: http://www.mustangworld.com/ourpics/News/mwramps/ I made a set of these out of scrap 2x6 from when I ripped up and re-planked the deck. Heavy as heck, but they work great. I wouldn't recommend using 2x6 for anything much wider than 185 tires, though... Signature/ Garth - '83 GL V6stang Hatch <Former MW #7> \ | My V6stang: http://www.v6stang.com/v6stang | | RAMFM Merchandise: http://www.cafeshops.com/ramfm | \ Mail pgp@v6stang.com for secure reply information / I got two railroad ties, angled the ends of each and drive right up on them. Almost as good as having a hoist. >> I do in fact still have steel ramps that I used to raise my old Chevys, >> BUT the Mustang bumper is so low that it hits the ramp when I try to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >re-planked the deck. Heavy as heck, but they work great. I wouldn't >recommend using 2x6 for anything much wider than 185 tires, though... Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 | It was about 2 inches over the MAX line. | | I live in a small town and don't feel like driving 20 miles to find | another shop. Ok, I am going to be mean here. Read on or not, it's up to you. If you know what youa re getting, and you do not want to do it yourself, and you continue to go to the same place, then you are getting EXACTLY what you deserve. Being a nice guy, I would feel bad telling the boss that | one of his techs is an a-hole and possibly get the guy fired. I'm sure | the poor kid needs the money (why else would you manage the oil change | line). And so the "kid" never learns to do it right and continues to mess up. He doesn't learn, he evidently doesn't listen and you don't tell someone who can/should teach him otherwise, That makes YOU as bad as he is. | Next time I will bring a big sign with "5 QUARTS PLEASE !!" on it. Oh yea, that will be good. "HERE'S YOUR SIGN" How about you just tell him as you pull it in: "Since you do not remember how much oil my car takes, and since you clearly do not know to look it up I will tell you that my car takes 5 quarts of XXX oil please, no more, no less. For cryin out loud! It's a GD oil change, it's not brain surgery! Kate 98 Cobra Drop Top That's what they make Chilton's repair manuals for. >It was about 2 inches over the MAX line. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Chevys, and the plug was right on the pan.... >Are there any web sites that show pics of 4.6 engine components???? Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Next time I will bring a big sign with "5 QUARTS PLEASE !!" on it. Hmm...............my 96 GT takes 6qts Dave my 98 GT says 5 quarts in Chiltons & Haynes manuals. I put in 5 quarts... low. 6 quarts is just right. Always worried that I was screwing something up, but I swear it takes 6 quarts lol. -Mike -- Melt away the Cellulite with Cellulean! http://www.MeltAwayCellulite.com/ > > Next time I will bring a big sign with "5 QUARTS PLEASE !!" on it. > > Hmm...............my 96 GT takes 6qts > > Dave > my 98 GT says 5 quarts in Chiltons & Haynes manuals. I put in 5 quarts... > low. 6 quarts is just right. Always worried that I was screwing something [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > > Dave A 5 qt jug plus 2 qts of mobil1 puts it just a full so I would call it 6 qts either that or Mobil is screwing us on content volume. Dave > It was about 2 inches over the MAX line. 2 inches! How much extra was THAT? Get a synthetic oil change. This will nearly guarantee you will not get overfilled. > Are there any web sites that show pics of 4.6 engine components???? http://www.parts.com/schematics/images/mechanical/FVP040.gif Rob > It was about 2 inches over the MAX line. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the poor kid needs the money (why else would you manage the oil change > line). That's a lot. About 2 quarts over, I'd guess. Are you sure you have the right dipstick and dipstick tube in your car? It's a long shot, but still possible. Given your situation, I think I'd make an appointment with the manager next oil change. Explain whats going on and ask him to solve the problem. It's in his interest to do so. Tell him you suspect an uncalibrated oil dispenser and ask him how they calibrate it and how often. If there's any question about it's accuracy, insist they put in oil that you brought, that way you know they had exactly 5 quarts. Solving a problem can take many turns on the path to the solution. Push all the preconceived notions and prejudices out of your mind and aim for the root cause! SignatureJohn ThunderSnake #59 Well, you aren't an "idiot" but you are a bit clueless :) As far as the tech goes, he's full of sh#t... Fill the engine, start the car, and bring the pressure up, then let it settle and re-check. the filter doesn't "absorb" anything later on. As far as prefilling the filter goes, no pro's do that. only shadetree mechs, or other anal people that believe that it will make ANY difference in the engine. Still, it sounds like the guy was out of line. There is a tactful way to explain their side (even if it's wrong). Oh, and a lube jockey is NOT a mechanic ! ! >I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat > upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > 2000 GT 'vert black >Well, you aren't an "idiot" but you are a bit clueless :) > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Oh, and a lube jockey is NOT a mechanic ! ! neither is a yankee technician in canada they would call ya unskilled labor hurc ast >>I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat >> upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >> 2000 GT 'vert black > I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat > upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K > miles or so. > For some reason, their computer does not show correct capacity and they > often put in too much oil. Somewhere between 1997 and 1999 ford changed the mustang GT 4.6L SOHC oil capacity from 6 quarts to 5. However as far as I can tell, there has been no change to the oil pan or the actual physical capacity of the engine to hold oil. The dipstick of course was changed to reflect the new value. I doubt the additional oil would have harmed your 2000, it only brought it up to around the per-owners-manual-and-dipstick levels I've been running my '97 at since new. If someone already mentioned this, sorry for the repeat, I didn't read all the replies. Just so you know my credentials.... I am a master certified mechanic....Car/lt. Truck....Bus.....Med/heavy truck. Master in each. Four years in Ford dealerships Seven years in Fleet shops Two years in Independant shops The last four years as a Fleet maintenance Supervisor One: Over filling the crankcase CAN AND WILL cause engine damage. If top level of the oil is in contact with (above the lowestmost point of ) the crank, the motion of the crank can cause foaming of the oil. This will lead to a loss of pressure condition and all of the associated damage that can cause. Two: Any "tech" as they are called now can and does make mistakes from time to time. if the mistake is corrected without problem, "no harm no foul". If harsh words were spoken that "Tech" should be out of a job. The aftermarket car care industry is a VERY tight market and owners/managers need to take extreme care not to run off customers. Three: There is no reason whatsoever to fill the filter with oil prior to installation. The efficiency of modern (or even new "old style") oil pumps is very high. The amount of time your engine will be without oil while filling the filter is less than one second. Kreigman '72 Mach one in rebuild >I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat > upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > 2000 GT 'vert black You let some crackhead yell at you ? just take it ? I'd yell back, make sure his boss knows you're going somewhere else because of him. >I know enough to avoid Jiffy-Lube and such. Found a clean and somewhat >upscale garage a few years back and have been taking in my GT every 3K [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >2000 GT 'vert black |
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