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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / May 2005

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water leakage on '65

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Bob - 18 May 2005 02:02 GMT
I am getting water leakage when it rains. I can replicate it by either , and
when water run down the windshield (even though new seals installed) or into
air vent, but not into the hood /body panel gaps.  The areas to be sealed
are not very accessible.  Is anyone aware of any sealant type products that
can be applied to stop relatively small leaks?
Spike - 18 May 2005 03:25 GMT
Is it leaking at the windshield or the cowl area? Was the windshield
seal replaced recently? Is it dried and cracked? My 66 was leaking
from right above the rearview mirror when it rained. I had the
windshield (and rear glass - fastback) pulled and new seals installed,
and that solved the problem. If the windshield was recently replaced,
it could be that the seal is not installed right, or there was too
much flexing before the adhesive had time to set properly. In which
case I would take it back to the glass outfit.

If you mean when water enters through the cowl opening and drains into
the cabin from under the dash, then you have a problem. There are
drain holes at each side of the cowl area (hidden by the fenders)
meant to drain water that enters the cowl area while allowing air into
the cabin. If those become plugged with leaves, etc, it can lead to
rust which can eat through and allow the water to drain into the cabin
from under the dash on each side. This in turn can lead to the floor
pans rusting through (eventually). This was a common problem with
early Mustangs. An alternative to rusting through under the dash would
be the drains are clogged and the water backs up until it reaches a
point higher than the vent pipes (looks a bit like a stovepipe hat -
Abe Lincoln style), then overflows into the cabin. If there is no
damage, simply clearing the drain holes and keeping debris out of the
cowl should take care of it. (the use of a cowl cover, about $30, or a
car cover to keep leaves and such from entering through the cowl vent
would be a good idea.)

Step one is get those drains cleared of any debris. Step to is to
examine the area for damage (ie rusted through).

Then comes the option, depending on how bad it is, of using a repair
kit, which consists of a pipe the fits in there and is sealed and held
in place (not sure if it was by screws, rivets, or adhesive) . If it's
too bad, you need to go the next step. available through many Mustang
parts vendors.

Worst case is you have a major job ahead of you which required
drilling out the cowl area welds, removing the cowl section, repairing
the damage, welding everything back in place, and refinishing. One of
the more expensive repairs listed for a 65/66 car.

If you go to www.mustangmonthly.com, or www.mustangandfords.com and go
through their Tech articles, I know some time back one of them did a
pictorial of the major repair method.

The following diagram is a simplified idea

________________ _ _ _ ___________________cowl vent level

~~    __  ~~~~~~~H2O~~~~~~~~~ __~~ not draining
0___|    |_________________________|   |___0-->normal drain
                                                                 |
   Abe's hats                                             \/
                                                               cabin

>I am getting water leakage when it rains. I can replicate it by either , and
>when water run down the windshield (even though new seals installed) or into
>air vent, but not into the hood /body panel gaps.  The areas to be sealed
>are not very accessible.  Is anyone aware of any sealant type products that
>can be applied to stop relatively small leaks?

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Bill W - 18 May 2005 04:18 GMT
Yup. That's what's wrong with mine. Rusted out right by the drivers side
wiper shaft. And your right, Spike, the only way to get in there to repair
is to remove the cowl.

> Is it leaking at the windshield or the cowl area? Was the windshield
> seal replaced recently? Is it dried and cracked? My 66 was leaking
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Bob - 18 May 2005 04:27 GMT
Thank you for your detailed response..

some additional details I bought the project as my 3rd mustang, so don't
know what I don't know on this one (I wanted a 65 fastback,,,,,,,,happy
camper, I'll deal with it)

problem is that I've never been in that part of the car before so I don't
know what I'm dealing with. Do I have to dismantle the front end or can I
add a can of "Mouse Milk" that fixes the problem over time

at first it trace. However after winter storage the handbrake emergency
brake is siezed and needs repair.
> Is it leaking at the windshield or the cowl area? Was the windshield
> seal replaced recently? Is it dried and cracked? My 66 was leaking
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Dinsdale - 18 May 2005 04:46 GMT
>> If you go to www.mustangmonthly.com, or www.mustangandfords.com and go
>> through their Tech articles, I know some time back one of them did a
>> pictorial of the major repair method.

Here's the cowl repair how-to:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/howto/5206/

DP
Pics of the cars:
http://tinyurl.com/d2q9u
Spike - 18 May 2005 05:27 GMT
Thanks. I knew it was one of the two, just couldn't recall which one.

>>> If you go to www.mustangmonthly.com, or www.mustangandfords.com and go
>>> through their Tech articles, I know some time back one of them did a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Pics of the cars:
>http://tinyurl.com/d2q9u

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Spike - 18 May 2005 05:41 GMT
Few people ever go in there so you're not alone. I knew because I read
an article on how to select a Mustang in Mustang Monthly, several
years ago. It detailed the pros and cons of the different models and
years, like rusted out floor pans, etc, and the cost to repair.

Much depends on just how bad the damage is. I do not know if the stove
pipe is large enough to get a hand through. The drain ports are to far
from the cowl vent itself IMO. If it's not too bad and you can somehow
get something like POR to it... who knows.

You have to start by getting under the dash and tracing where the
problem is coming from, and how bad it is. Then go from there whether
it's just a case of unblocking the drain ports, and letting it dry
out, or using a repair kit, or going the whole nine yards. Your need
to remove the fender(s) to get to the ports IIRC. A wire hanger should
clear any blockage, but you still have to get the garbage out so it
doesn't block again. Use some experimentation with an air hose and a
vacuum. After it's dry, try to blow the stuff to the middle vent area
and suck it out with the vacuum.

Otherwise, turn the car over and shake the stuff out... LOL... sorry,
but a little humor is needed when dealing with problems in this area.

>Thank you for your detailed response..
>
[quoted text clipped - 76 lines]
>> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
>> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Mark C. - 22 May 2005 18:25 GMT
I've found that the early cars also tend to leak from where the upper cowl
attaches to the lower through the seams. The sealant tends to crack and
allow water to get in. You have to remove the fenders in order to reseal the
joints. People often mistake this for a leaky windshield seal and it will
drip profusely while driving in the rain.

Signature

Mark
--
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who once said, "I drank
what?". " Val Kilmer in Real Genius.

> Few people ever go in there so you're not alone. I knew because I read
> an article on how to select a Mustang in Mustang Monthly, several
[quoted text clipped - 107 lines]
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Spike - 22 May 2005 22:36 GMT
good point.

>I've found that the early cars also tend to leak from where the upper cowl
>attaches to the lower through the seams. The sealant tends to crack and
>allow water to get in. You have to remove the fenders in order to reseal the
>joints. People often mistake this for a leaky windshield seal and it will
>drip profusely while driving in the rain.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Bill W - 23 May 2005 04:12 GMT
Man. Wish I was that lucky. I've been drillin' spot welds for two days
now...

> good point.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Spike - 23 May 2005 04:53 GMT
My heart bleeds for ya. Nothing personal, but I'm glad it's you and
not me.  How far to go?

>Man. Wish I was that lucky. I've been drillin' spot welds for two days
>now...
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
>> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Bill W - 24 May 2005 03:57 GMT
Hell, I may bitch about it, but I'm still having fun. Figure one more night
and I'll be welding in a patch. Then on to the next hole...

> My heart bleeds for ya. Nothing personal, but I'm glad it's you and
> not me.  How far to go?
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Spike - 24 May 2005 05:36 GMT
And look at how much you're saving.... : )

>Hell, I may bitch about it, but I'm still having fun. Figure one more night
>and I'll be welding in a patch. Then on to the next hole...
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
>> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Thomas Cameron - 24 May 2005 17:51 GMT
> I am getting water leakage when it rains. I can replicate it by either , and
> when water run down the windshield (even though new seals installed) or into
> air vent, but not into the hood /body panel gaps.  The areas to be sealed
> are not very accessible.  Is anyone aware of any sealant type products that
> can be applied to stop relatively small leaks?

I've read the web sites on replacing leaky cowl parts, but I am not sure I
understand why you wouldn't just seal the cowl up solid.  What purpose is
there in allowing water to run in there?

Thomas
Spike - 24 May 2005 19:31 GMT
The purpose is not to let water in. The purpose is to let fresh AIR
into the cabin. The cowl is designed stop the water from entering the
cabin by allowing it to enter the cowl and bleed off through drain
ports on the sides (inside the fender) before it gets deep enough to
rise above the overflow pipes and drain into the cabin.

Generally, debris collects inside the cowl when the vehicle is left
sitting along a tree lined street, especially with trees having very
small leaves or pine needles. One inside, the block the drain ports,
and if they don't do that, they at least hold moisture which leads to
rust, or both) which leads to holes which allow the water to flow in.

Even if you were to seal the cowl, if there is already damage, it has
to be repaired, otherwise it will continue to expand.

The cowl opening could be eliminated and some alternate form for fresh
air induction installed, but I think that would be a lot of work for
little return.

There are "cowl covers" available from most Mustang parts vendors
(around $35) made of plexiglass/lexan which seal the cowl. This stops
the fresh air from entering unless you open the windows, and it's
obvious that there are times when you do not want the windows open.
Many later model Mustangs had wire mesh screens which kept out the
debris.

The covers come in two forms, one is magnetic and the other uses
locking screws. Magnetic is fine for when the car is sitting, but I
would suggest the locking screw type for driving. From what I have
seen, the covers are solid. It would seem that if they were drilled
with umpteen small holes, it would allow for the fresh air exchange
while still keeping out the debris.

If I had to have the cowl repaired, I would consider finding a way to
install a wire mesh for this purpose, while still maintaining the
original appearance.

>> I am getting water leakage when it rains. I can replicate it by either , and
>> when water run down the windshield (even though new seals installed) or into
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Thomas

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Thomas Cameron - 24 May 2005 21:23 GMT
> The purpose is not to let water in. The purpose is to let fresh AIR
> into the cabin. The cowl is designed stop the water from entering the
> cabin by allowing it to enter the cowl and bleed off through drain
> ports on the sides (inside the fender) before it gets deep enough to
> rise above the overflow pipes and drain into the cabin.

Ah, I see.  So if someone were to install an AC in a Mustang and seal the
cowl off, would that be a bad thing?  What I mean is, would you be able to
make it only recirculate the inside air instead of drawing fresh air from
the outside?

Thomas
Spike - 24 May 2005 22:09 GMT
When you switch to AC it should close off the door(s) in the box,
depending upon the type of AC system. Also, they same thing applies to
the air mix for the heater/defroster. That's what those slide controls
are supposed to do.

>> The purpose is not to let water in. The purpose is to let fresh AIR
>> into the cabin. The cowl is designed stop the water from entering the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Thomas

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
 
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