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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / May 2005

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First kill!

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66 6F HCS - 21 May 2005 04:30 GMT
Now before you guys go into how street racing is only for morons, drop it
'cause I don't wanna hear it. For the most part I agree with you guys, but
there are some occasions where ya just can't resist it.

My first kill in the '69 Boss clone was this evening. A beautiful raven
black '67 Camaro SS with Silver stripes. Rolling start @ ~30mph. I'm not
sure if he's gonna gun it. He takes off so I jump on it too. He was ahead by
1/2 length on start and I slowly reeled him in and pulled even within 1/8th
mile. The whole thing lasted about 10 seconds and he gave up when he could
see my rear bumper.

Pulled into the AutoZone which is a few blocks away and pop our hoods. (You
shoulda seen the ricers come out of the woodworks then, LMAO!) He's got a
chromed out 350 stroked to 383 with a Holley 750cfm DP, Edelbrock RPM
Air-Gap intake, 4-spd manual and 3.73:1 posi 10 bolt. Fairly close match
with my 393 stroker 351W, 600cfm Edelbrock, Edelbrock Performer intake, FMX
tranny and 3.70:1 Trac-Lok 9".

He said he runs high 13's at Bandimere. I wonder where that would put me up
on the hill???? I'm sure I could run 14's all day long with my current
setup. But 13's? I'm not so sure. I'm thinking he was fudging a bit.

Signature

Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/

66 6F HCS - 21 May 2005 04:33 GMT
Forgot to mention he's running Edel RPM heads and I'm running D0 cast iron
Windsor heads which were ported/polished and now run roller rockers.
Signature

Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/

Michael Johnson, PE - 21 May 2005 04:49 GMT
Good story.  Get ready though, the PC police are likely to ambush you
for your transgressions. ;)

> Now before you guys go into how street racing is only for morons, drop it
> 'cause I don't wanna hear it. For the most part I agree with you guys, but
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> on the hill???? I'm sure I could run 14's all day long with my current
> setup. But 13's? I'm not so sure. I'm thinking he was fudging a bit.
Brad and Mia - 21 May 2005 09:03 GMT
> Good story.  Get ready though, the PC police are likely to ambush you for
> your transgressions. ;)

Oh please.  Lots of people street race. I do.  All the time.  I mean,
driving 60 in a 30, or 80 in a 40 is kewl. I know I know, someday I might
kill someone. But at least if it's a member of your family, you'll
understand. Cause you're kewl; just like me.

Brad

>> Now before you guys go into how street racing is only for morons, drop it
>> 'cause I don't wanna hear it. For the most part I agree with you guys,
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>> up on the hill???? I'm sure I could run 14's all day long with my current
>> setup. But 13's? I'm not so sure. I'm thinking he was fudging a bit.
Deputy Dog - 21 May 2005 13:01 GMT
someday I might
> kill someone. But at least if it's a member of your family, you'll
> understand. Cause you're kewl; just like me.
>
> Brad

The only thing I'd understand is the feeling of satisfaction when some one
did to you as you did to others. f.cking a.shole!

Dave
Brad and Mia - 22 May 2005 08:09 GMT
> someday I might
>> kill someone. But at least if it's a member of your family, you'll
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Dave

Dave, you missed the point, bigtime.

Brad
James - 21 May 2005 14:18 GMT
In our area a young couple and their 5 month old daughter were killed when
hit at 100+ MPH by a street racer just last weekend.  Of course one of the
cars involved was a Mustang.  The vehicle that actually hit the families car
was a pickup truck.

>> Good story.  Get ready though, the PC police are likely to ambush you for
>> your transgressions. ;)
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>>> current setup. But 13's? I'm not so sure. I'm thinking he was fudging a
>>> bit.
John C. - 21 May 2005 15:30 GMT
> In our area a young couple and their 5 month old daughter were killed when
> hit at 100+ MPH by a street racer just last weekend.  Of course one of the
> cars involved was a Mustang.  The vehicle that actually hit the families car
> was a pickup truck.

Street racing? That's the first "street racing" comment I've seen connected
to this particular incident. Road raging drunken idiots seems to be a more
fitting description than street racers.
--
John C.
'03 Cobra Convt.
James - 21 May 2005 19:39 GMT
You are probably right.  I had heard originally that they were racing.

>> In our area a young couple and their 5 month old daughter were killed
>> when
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> John C.
> '03 Cobra Convt.
moco - 21 May 2005 22:51 GMT
>> In our area a young couple and their 5 month old daughter were killed when
>> hit at 100+ MPH by a street racer just last weekend.  Of course one of the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>to this particular incident. Road raging drunken idiots seems to be a more
>fitting description than street racers.

Ode to days gone by...

Yeah, this sounds more like,"look how fast my dick can go" than Street
Racing. Driving down main street at 100+ with some other idiot in
broad daylight is not street racing, that's just reckless driving.
When we use to street race here (West Los Angeles) It was more of an
organized event. Everyone met at Carl's Jr., Del Taco, insert random
parking lot here. Then the drivers (not called fucken "racers") would
check each others cars, ask the questions, " Are you squeezing, what
you got, Big block, small block, the move, heads up, blah, blah,blah
then go to a set quarter mile. Back then it was either the industrial
park road next to the tracks, Pershing Blvd, a wide empty strip behind
the LAX runway, etc. NEVER on some busy street. If the cops came
we were outta there. But of course I'm just reminiscing, this was back
like in the late 80's early 90's when we were still racing real cars,
the only ricer that we had was a 70' 280zx and he had a small block
Chevy in it.Oh. and the occasional Mazda rotary. Of course this all
ended as soon as ricers started showing up, cars put together by brand
names and electronics, not Muscle and sweat and tears. If your pride
and joy muscle car blew its engine because of something "YOU" forgot
it was no laughing matter. Now a days ricers blow engines and just
laugh it off and they are out next weekend in the same car....

Yeah I'm bitter, or maybe I just miss the days that real street racing
meant you had work your a.s off for the car you wanted and what you
wanted it to do. Or when you shook the guys hand that just beat you,
you notice the grease under all his nails and realized he wanted that
win, he worked for it earlier that day. No multi colored cars, No
trash talking a.shole saying you cheated. Just respect for the other
driver and his car.
66 6F HCS - 22 May 2005 02:51 GMT
> If your pride
> and joy muscle car blew its engine because of something "YOU" forgot
> it was no laughing matter.

No sh.t!

> Yeah I'm bitter, or maybe I just miss the days that real street racing
> meant you had work your a.s off for the car you wanted and what you
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> trash talking a.shole saying you cheated. Just respect for the other
> driver and his car.

Which is exactly what we did, except I'm the one who won. heh! Still shook
hands and popped hoods. The only thing missing was a 'Cuda with a 383 next
to us.
Signature

Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/

Brad and Mia - 22 May 2005 08:19 GMT
Up here in Cowtown, AB, we have two street racing deaths in the last four
days. One dipshit had his 70-year-old grandmother in the car when it went
spalt, and so did she. (This is true.) Another had some dumb bitch hitting
the back of a minivan, which rolled many times and, again, spalt.  But these
people are so cool.  I wish I could be like them and push hard on the pedal
on the street. That takes someone way cooler than me to do.

Brad

> In our area a young couple and their 5 month old daughter were killed when
> hit at 100+ MPH by a street racer just last weekend.  Of course one of the
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>>>> current setup. But 13's? I'm not so sure. I'm thinking he was fudging a
>>>> bit.
ZombyWoof - 22 May 2005 09:46 GMT
>Up here in Cowtown, AB, we have two street racing deaths in the last four
>days. One dipshit had his 70-year-old grandmother in the car when it went
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Brad

Checkout this website http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newphotos/exotics/
for some stupid stunts of the rich & famous.

>> In our area a young couple and their 5 month old daughter were killed when
>> hit at 100+ MPH by a street racer just last weekend.  Of course one of the
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>>>>> current setup. But 13's? I'm not so sure. I'm thinking he was fudging a
>>>>> bit.

Signature

"Either kill me or take me as I am,
because I'll be damned if I ever change..."

The Marquis de Sade

Deputy Dog - 22 May 2005 17:38 GMT
Ok, ya  gotta get better with the sarcasm or I gotta get better at spotting
it.

Dave

> Up here in Cowtown, AB, we have two street racing deaths in the last four
> days. One dipshit had his 70-year-old grandmother in the car when it went
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> >>>> current setup. But 13's? I'm not so sure. I'm thinking he was fudging a
> >>>> bit.
Gill - 21 May 2005 06:42 GMT
> Now before you guys go into how street racing is only for morons, drop it
> 'cause I don't wanna hear it. For the most part I agree with you guys, but
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> on the hill???? I'm sure I could run 14's all day long with my current
> setup. But 13's? I'm not so sure. I'm thinking he was fudging a bit.

I think you could get into the 13's. Take it to the track and find out.
It kind of gives a reality check to me. I hit 13.3 but thought I would
do better,(spun to the 1/8th) and at the end of the 1/4 I realized
111mph is not safe for the street(Takes a long time to slow down)
There's really nothing good to say about a street race though, so I won't.

Signature

Tropic Green Y2K 5 Speed Mustang GT
       With Bits and Pieces
http://tinyurl.com/3w3sv

Mark C. - 21 May 2005 07:15 GMT
I realized
> 111mph is not safe for the street(Takes a long time to slow down) There's
> really nothing good to say about a street race though, so I won't.

If you upgrade the power, you have to upgrade the brakes.

Signature

Mark
--
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who once said, "I drank
what?". " Val Kilmer in Real Genius.

>> Now before you guys go into how street racing is only for morons, drop it
>> 'cause I don't wanna hear it. For the most part I agree with you guys,
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> not safe for the street(Takes a long time to slow down) There's really
> nothing good to say about a street race though, so I won't.
Gill - 21 May 2005 13:37 GMT
> I realized
>
>>111mph is not safe for the street(Takes a long time to slow down) There's
>>really nothing good to say about a street race though, so I won't.
>
> If you upgrade the power, you have to upgrade the brakes.

Yeah, I know, that's one of the things on my list to do.
ZombyWoof - 21 May 2005 17:01 GMT
>> Now before you guys go into how street racing is only for morons, drop it
>> 'cause I don't wanna hear it. For the most part I agree with you guys, but
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>111mph is not safe for the street(Takes a long time to slow down)
>There's really nothing good to say about a street race though, so I won't.

Perhaps, his problem, as well as I think yours will be more tires then
anything else.  The street meats just aren't going to cut it.  

As to street racing, been there done that, have the T-Shirt and
revoked license to prove it.  Fortunately that was back in the days
before linked DMV systems and all I had to do was go one state over to
get another clean license.  

Street Racing is part of the stupidity of youth.  If you live through
it, don't end up killing yourself or someone else, you come to your
own realization what an extremely bad idea it is.  It is this way with
a great deal of other things as well.
Signature

"Either kill me or take me as I am,
because I'll be damned if I ever change..."

The Marquis de Sade

Spike - 21 May 2005 08:32 GMT
Now you need a program to kick out a decal to stick to the ride... a
tiny little Camaro... maybe with a bullseye over it.... : )

>Now before you guys go into how street racing is only for morons, drop it
>'cause I don't wanna hear it. For the most part I agree with you guys, but
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>on the hill???? I'm sure I could run 14's all day long with my current
>setup. But 13's? I'm not so sure. I'm thinking he was fudging a bit.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
SVTKate - 21 May 2005 12:10 GMT
| Now you need a program to kick out a decal to stick to the ride... a
| tiny little Camaro... maybe with a bullseye over it.... : )

OH!
My ex has an uncle that had a beat up old truck that had little stick men
painted on the side.
It's funny as hell! He has about two rows of them and one that is only
half... never figured that one out.
Spike - 21 May 2005 21:34 GMT
Dwarf? Midget?  Wait 'til the Little People of America hear about
that!!!! LOL

>| Now you need a program to kick out a decal to stick to the ride... a
>| tiny little Camaro... maybe with a bullseye over it.... : )
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>It's funny as hell! He has about two rows of them and one that is only
>half... never figured that one out.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Mark M - 22 May 2005 16:00 GMT
<snip>He has about two rows of them and one that is only
half... never figured that one out.

WWII fighter pilots could share a kill, hence half a victory mark.
HTH...Mark M
Spike - 22 May 2005 22:32 GMT
Hmmmmm ... two vehicles in a headon collision caught a pedestrian in
between them?

><snip>He has about two rows of them and one that is only
>half... never figured that one out.
>
>WWII fighter pilots could share a kill, hence half a victory mark.
>HTH...Mark M

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Mark M - 22 May 2005 22:55 GMT
Either That or one hit him first then the second ran him over finishing the
job?

> Hmmmmm ... two vehicles in a headon collision caught a pedestrian in
> between them?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Spike - 23 May 2005 00:32 GMT
Yes, it's a possibility, and probably easier to prove which one struck
the fatal blow... LOL

>Either That or one hit him first then the second ran him over finishing the
>job?
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
>> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Kidd Andersson - 23 May 2005 03:49 GMT
> Yes, it's a possibility, and probably easier to prove which one struck
> the fatal blow... LOL
>
>>Either That or one hit him first then the second ran him over finishing the
>>job?

No no... harder to tell which blow was fatal if two vehicles struck the
same person. I speak from experience, sadly.

K.
Kidd Andersson - 23 May 2005 03:49 GMT
> Either That or one hit him first then the second ran him over finishing the
> job?

The only good thing about this is they can't figure out which vehicle
caused the death and thus no charges can be brought (assuming the first
vehicle wasn't breaking the law).

K.
Spike - 23 May 2005 04:51 GMT
While contrary to CSI; solving crimes takes more than an hour to do
the paperwork even without commercials; it depends on the
investigators and the crime lab to develop the evidence. It is not
unheard of to conduct separate trials and charge each party with
responsibility. It's generally the DA who decides whether to prosecute
or not. In either case, were I one of the drivers, I sure would not
want to live with that on my conscience the rest of my days.

>> Either That or one hit him first then the second ran him over finishing the
>> job?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>K.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Kidd Andersson - 23 May 2005 07:01 GMT
> While contrary to CSI; solving crimes takes more than an hour to do
> the paperwork even without commercials; it depends on the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> or not. In either case, were I one of the drivers, I sure would not
> want to live with that on my conscience the rest of my days.

OUCH! I'm hurt. And here I thought you loved me.

Actually, my statement didn't include INTENTIONAL harm to others or foul
on either driver's part. Let me explain.
When I was 8 months pregnant, I was leaving a friend's house at 2:30 AM
to meet my man, who was doing an off-duty detail. I was having an ice
cream craving. I was on the highway, for ONCE actually going the speed
limit (okay, it was 55 and I was doing 57). It was dark. No street
lights as this wasn't a heavily populated area. I'm looking directly
ahead of me, waiting for the 7-11 sign at the top of the hill so I know
I'm almost there.
A man walked out in front of my car. I had an entire 1 second to react.
I hit my brakes and then him. He went up and over, I went to the right
and off the road. I immediately got out, called 911 on the cell phone. I
tried to call to him, started to walk to him when I saw another car's
headlights in the distance. I told the dispatcher I needed to get him
out of the road. She said not to as I would probably be hit too. He was
obviously not feeling any pain since he wasn't conscious.
I saw the car coming and I said they're going to hit him. She told me
not to look. I didn't. But I heard it. Sure enough that big white Dodge
pickup hit him and went right over his head. That's a sound I'll never
forget. But once they looked back and realized what they had hit, they
ACCELERATED and left the scene. They didn't bother to stop. Unlike the
other 4 cars that came after and hit him too. Apparently the 6th vehicle
had flares.

I went to the hospital in the back of the ambulance, he went in a body bag.
Highway Patrol came to the hospital to get my sworn statement. After all
the investigations were done, I wasn't charged with anything as A, I
obviously wasn't under the influence of drugs or alcohol. B, I wasn't
driving recklessly. C, by the marks from me hitting the brakes and where
I ended up I was obviously very truthful in what happened and D, the
guy's blood alcohol level was far beyond what they consider functioning.
The THI actually told me she was thinking, based on what I told her and
how things transpired, that he was possibly trying to commit suicide
(which is what the kid who walked out in front of my uncle did). He
never even LOOKED in my direction. He was wearing dark clothes, with no
lights aside from mine so there was no way I could see him until it was
too late.

Highway Patrol did look for the white truck but never found it.

She told me, since it couldn't be proven which vehicle between me and
the truck that dealt the final blow, charges couldn't be brought. She
also said that it was just something unfortunate that happened and I
obviously hadn't done anything wrong that charges wouldn't have been
brought against me anyway.

So there was my point.

K.
Spike - 23 May 2005 16:56 GMT
Kidd.... that was directed at you as you SHOULD have been prosecuted,
just pointing out that it's possible for two separate operators to be
tried for the same accident. As for the conscience part... been there
when a child ran out from the side of a typical narrow Asian street.
Bad enough being arrested, but by Japanese police... I endured that
for quite a while until the investigation results came out that I did
not actually hit the kid. The child was injured, but not by the car,
he had actually tripped and hit the curb. But it is a haunting
thought... and only 1 day after I got married....

>> While contrary to CSI; solving crimes takes more than an hour to do
>> the paperwork even without commercials; it depends on the
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
>K.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Spike - 23 May 2005 19:01 GMT
Correction: NOT directed at you personally... SBT

>> While contrary to CSI; solving crimes takes more than an hour to do
>> the paperwork even without commercials; it depends on the
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
>K.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
cprice@here.com - 21 May 2005 22:51 GMT
    If you have a decent set of heads, a 600cfm carb is a bit small, no? I
would put at least a 650-700. Heck, for 400 cubes with good heads and
healthy cam, a 780 might work too (dont know forsure on this one).

> Now before you guys go into how street racing is only for morons, drop it
> 'cause I don't wanna hear it. For the most part I agree with you guys, but
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> on the hill???? I'm sure I could run 14's all day long with my current
> setup. But 13's? I'm not so sure. I'm thinking he was fudging a bit.
66 6F HCS - 22 May 2005 02:46 GMT
> If you have a decent set of heads, a 600cfm carb is a bit small, no? I
> would put at least a 650-700. Heck, for 400 cubes with good heads and
> healthy cam, a 780 might work too (dont know forsure on this one).

I thought the same, until I went to build the motor and did some math. I'm
5280' above sea level in Denver and my motor will rarely see 5000+ rpm. By
my calculations and Edelbrock's tech support, a 600 is just right. More
would be a waste of good expensive gas. I rejetted and metered for the
altitude. The cam is the XE262EH from Comp Cams. Split duration 262/270 so
the motor could run more cam, but peak torque comes on at 3200rpms and
practically flatlines to 5000!!! VERY torquey motor!!

What's holding me back is my heads and exhaust right now. D0 Windsor heads
and a 2" dual exhaust without a crossover (compliments of the previous
owner, yech!). I'll gain about 20hp and tq once I switch up to 3" with a
crossover through glasspacks out the side and around 30hp and tq with GT-40X
heads. Ran those numbers on "Engine Analyzer 3.0". From the voices of
experience, those numbers are within 3% of the real world.
Signature

Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/

cprice@here.com - 22 May 2005 07:28 GMT
   
    latest mustang monthly has an article where they swap a 600 cfm holley
for a 650dp on a 351w with afr heads. Effectively, the car gained   < 10
hp, and then adding timing adda like another 20.

    HOWEVER, I would say that as you change your combo, you are going to
move the bottleneck somewhere else. You might indeed need that 650-700
with gt-40x/afr/you-name-it heads as they flow ALOT more than the D00E
(guessing) heads you have, especially if they are not ported.

    Just the ramblings of a bench-racer without a current motor project.
*sigh*, my 97 cobra is fun, but I am having to work hard keeping it bone
stock.

>>If you have a decent set of heads, a 600cfm carb is a bit small, no? I
>>would put at least a 650-700. Heck, for 400 cubes with good heads and
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> heads. Ran those numbers on "Engine Analyzer 3.0". From the voices of
> experience, those numbers are within 3% of the real world.
66 6F HCS - 22 May 2005 12:04 GMT
> HOWEVER, I would say that as you change your combo, you are going to move
> the bottleneck somewhere else. You might indeed need that 650-700 with
> gt-40x/afr/you-name-it heads as they flow ALOT more than the D00E
> (guessing) heads you have, especially if they are not ported.

Yeah, they're ported, polished and roller rockers. This was the ultimate
head for a Windsor, that is until the aftermarket started making good heads
for the Windsor's. It's old school!
Signature

Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/

cprice@here.com - 23 May 2005 16:21 GMT
    Yeah, D00E _were_ awesome heads for stock valve and port size until the
aftermarkets came along. I had a ported and polished set of 289 Hi-PO's
with chevy valves on my 79 5.0, compression was about 10:1 with 1.94/1.6
valves and it made lots of power.

>>HOWEVER, I would say that as you change your combo, you are going to move
>>the bottleneck somewhere else. You might indeed need that 650-700 with
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> head for a Windsor, that is until the aftermarket started making good heads
> for the Windsor's. It's old school!
GEB - 22 May 2005 16:26 GMT
"66 6F HCS" wrote in a message:
> I thought the same, until I went to build the motor and did some math. I'm
> 5280' above sea level in Denver and my motor will rarely see 5000+ rpm. By
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the motor could run more cam, but peak torque comes on at 3200rpms and
> practically flatlines to 5000!!! VERY torquey motor!!

Which way did you have to go with the jetting? Up or down? Remember, the CFM
rating is for air, not fuel. You jet the carb to match fuel to amout of air
being moved through the carb. The 600 may be correct for an application
where it is getting its air from under the hood only. If your running a
scoop that is sealed to the top of the carb, then a 600 may be too small.
I'm running a 306 (302 .030 over) 10.0:1 compression, 351W heads with roller
rockers, Torker II intake, and a Comp Cams 298/306 duration cam, and a
Holley 750 HP double pumper, that is just right. Only difference is I use a
1" spacer between carb and intake which puts the top of the carb right at
the bottom of the hood. I also made an air box that sits on top of the carb
that seals the carb to the hood, so all air is gotten from the hood scoop.
The car ran a 12.714 @ 108 mph.

> What's holding me back is my heads and exhaust right now. D0 Windsor heads
> and a 2" dual exhaust without a crossover (compliments of the previous
> owner, yech!). I'll gain about 20hp and tq once I switch up to 3" with a
> crossover through glasspacks out the side and around 30hp and tq with
> GT-40X heads. Ran those numbers on "Engine Analyzer 3.0". From the voices
> of experience, those numbers are within 3% of the real world.

It's more like 10%. But the difference doesn't amount to a whole lot. In my
application, I run 1 7/8" long tube open headers, with an evacuation system
welded in at the collectors.

Gary
66 6F HCS - 22 May 2005 21:30 GMT
> Which way did you have to go with the jetting? Up or down?

Down, not enough O2 in the air to support more fuel.

Remember, the CFM
> rating is for air, not fuel. You jet the carb to match fuel to amout of
> air being moved through the carb. The 600 may be correct for an
> application where it is getting its air from under the hood only.

It is, no scoop. Just look at my website

> Only difference is I use a 1" spacer between carb and intake which puts
> the top of the carb right at the bottom of the hood.

I've got a 1" 4-holer.

> It's more like 10%. But the difference doesn't amount to a whole lot.

10%. I guess after drivetrain losses through an FMX it really wouldn't.
Signature

Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/

66 6F HCS - 22 May 2005 23:45 GMT
> Remember, the CFM rating is for air, not fuel. You jet the carb to match
> fuel to amout of air being moved through the carb. The 600 may be correct
> for an application where it is getting its air from under the hood only.
> If your running a scoop that is sealed to the top of the carb, then a 600
> may be too small.

Went back and ran the math again. A 398 CID engine (rounded to the nearest
CI) running at 90% VE and a max of 6000rpm's needs 553cfm. Even at 100% VE
it needs just 691cfm. I'll never run it to 6000 rpm. Probably a max in the
5200 range. That needs even less. 479cfm at 90% VE and 599cfm @ 100% VE. I
have 1cfm to spare even at perfect volumetric efficiency ;)
Signature

Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/

GEB - 23 May 2005 00:57 GMT
For your application, that should be about right. I'm running more cam, and
higher rpms (7000). Basically on my car, the scoop is sealed to the carb,
which is forcing air down the carb at the higher mph (past 1/8 mile).  Let
me know how you do if you ever get it to the track.

> Went back and ran the math again. A 398 CID engine (rounded to the nearest
> CI) running at 90% VE and a max of 6000rpm's needs 553cfm. Even at 100% VE
> it needs just 691cfm. I'll never run it to 6000 rpm. Probably a max in the
> 5200 range. That needs even less. 479cfm at 90% VE and 599cfm @ 100% VE. I
> have 1cfm to spare even at perfect volumetric efficiency ;)

Gary
 
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