Does this mean my 331 will be a 'big block'? <grin>

L8s,

Alias

-----Original Message-----
From: NoOption5L@aol.com [mailto:NoOption5L@aol.com]
Posted At: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:02 PM
Posted To: rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Conversation: New Breed Of V8s Coming Down The Pike?
Subject: New Breed Of V8s Coming Down The Pike?

Some people are predicting the death of the V-8 in American cars with
the onset of the renewed emphasis on fuel economy. Well, not so fast, my
friends. More than one Detroit automaker is working on a new generation
of aluminum V-8s that will be around 2.4-liters in size, with the
possibility of going up to 3.0-liters. There are some very good reasons
for spending the money on these engines too. First of all, even though
fuel-efficiency will become a priority, there are too many applications
in a wide cross section of vehicle types (performance, utility, trucks)
that will still need the torque and power that a V-8 offers. Secondly,
as evidenced by the new 427 small-block in the upcoming Corvette ZO6,
small-block development has reached its limit - and the need for a fresh
look at new technology would be especially suited to a new, smaller V-8.
Oh, and there are a couple more very important reasons too.
International racing regulations are moving toward a new, 2.4-liter V-8
specification (Formula 1), and the Indy Racing League is contemplating
new engine package regulations for 2007. The rumored size of their
engines? 2.4-liters. And NASCAR is expected to follow suit (especially
when the engine manufacturers tell them what they're going to have to
work with). Just when you thought the sun might be setting on the
classic American V-8, things are about to get very interesting.

Patrick
'93 Cobra

Something tells me that to get decent power from an engine this small means
a very expensive motor. The old addage "there's no replacement for
displacement" still rings true today. It should be interesting to see what
the big 3 come up with. Gives new meaning to the word "small block".

Haven't we been through this before?
It's like the Miniskirt, it's a trend that cycles every couple of decades.
Though technology continues to advance and now economy doesn't mean that you
have to push it up a hill because of a lack of horsepower.

The new stuff will be interesting to see.

Kate

What about the on-demand cylinder engines that are now on the market?
Eight when the pedal is to the metal & down to four when cruising or
puttering around town?  Better fuel control using computers?  Or the
infamous urban legend  200mpg carburetor?  Aren't F1's already 3.0
liters, but V-10's?  Isn't IRL now using 3.0 liter engines as well?
Doesn't CART use a 2.6 liter engine?

Additionally, on November 4, 2004, Chevrolet stated that it would be
ending its IRL engine program effective with the end of the 2005
season, citing costs that exceeded value, according to then-GM Racing
Director Doug Duchardt. "The investment did not meet our objectives,"
he was quoted as saying. Whether another engine manufacturer will
supply IRL engines as of 2006 is unknown at this point. What is known
is that the most successful engine in the history of the series, that
from GM, will soon no longer be available. Whether this constitutes a
very serious blow to the series or just another change remains to be
seen. Speculation was rife that General Motors was more impressed with
the monetary return it was getting from NASCAR, where the cars are
referred to as "Monte Carlos" and the body styles that are used bear
at least a superficial resemblance to a consumer product. There are
some indications that Toyota may not return as an engine supplier
after 2006 as well, as company officials have stated a dissatisfaction
with the investment returns in the series while at the same time,
Toyota Racing Development is clearly preparing for entry into the
NASCAR Nextel Cup Series. Currently, IRL engines are rev-limited to
just over 10,000 rpm, and produce approximately 700 bhp at this speed
from a normally-aspirated 3 liter.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indy_Racing_League#The_Engines)

Chevy already said it will pull out of Indy car racing following this
season, though officials say they will consider a return in 2007 if
they like the specifications the IRL chooses. Toyota is mum on its
future, but clearly it is interested in becoming more involved in
NASCAR. Honda plans to remain in the IRL, though it isn’t keen on
being the sole manufacturer.

No other engine manufacturer has stepped forward, though Barnhart
notes they need to know the rules first. The IRL’s primary stipulation
is the manufacturer sells cars in the United States.

Barnhart indicated he has four or five options for engine choice, but
he seems to have made his decision. The IRL now uses 3.0-liter
normally aspirated powerplants of 183 cubic inches. An option is to go
to a stock block engine that in theory would attract more NASCAR-like
participation.
(http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102402)

Oh and wasn't Cadillac looking at reintroducing their infamous V-16?

The long and the short of it is who the hell knows what is going on
and what the future holds?  If Indy cars are currently getting ~700
bhp at 10,000rpm from a normally-aspirated 3 liter without having to
do a complete rebuild after every race like NASCAR does why won't they
make it into street versions?  Your guess is as good as mine.  Perhaps
it is the fuel that is the issue.

Interesting to note that the 1932 Ford flathead V8 displaced 3.6 liters
(221 ci).  73 years later, a 3.0 liter domestic V8 is news?

Anyway, I'll believe it when I see it.  Detroit is not exactly the
spawning ground of new engines.  Fords Mod Motor is now more than ten
years old, with no end in sight, as is the GM Northstar.  The Chevy 3rd
gen is also nearing age ten.  D-C's "hemi" is the only new big enginne
I can think of.  (I know diddly about domestic 4's and 6's.)

There are some very

How does a 2.4 to 3.0 liter (146 to 183 ci) V8 offer any more torque
and power than a V6?  I know in theory that more cylinders allow more
total valve area and lighter pistons, but c'mon, these can't be worth 5
hp in a 2.4 liter street engine.  The bean counters would not be seeing
a cost/benefit ratio from the added costs of two more piston/rod
assemblies, 4 or 8 more valve trains, an additional crank throw, etc.
Packagers would not like the longer block.  The more tangible benefit
of more cylinders is smoothness, but I haven't heard anyone complaining
about all the Toyota, Nissan, BMW, etc., sixes out there.

Secondly, as evidenced by the new 427 small-block in the

If you mean the limits of displacement, surely you've heard of the
raised deck -- the 351 Ford Windsor and 400 Cleveland and the 440
Chrysler come to mind.  With a 4 inch bore, a V8 gains about 50 ci for
every half inch in stroke.  And if 427 ci is "the limit," why not stay
there?

Exactly what new technology is suited to small V8's?

Oh, and there are a couple more very

The F1 crowd would choke on their brie before they'd allow a stock
block in their silly boring toys.

and the Indy

Indy Racing League, yeah there's a real tastemaker.

And NASCAR is expected

The NASCAR crowd would choke on their nachos before they'd allow
overhead cams and fuel injection in their silly boring toys.

Just when you thought the sun

D-C just came out with the  "hemi," GM just came out with the "4th" gen
SBC, Ford can't make enough V8 Mustangs, the "hemi," the 3rd and 4th
gen, and the Mod Motor are imbedded all across all three makers' model
lines, non gearhead American consumers are actually paying attention to
the domestic offerings, cylinder deactivation is answering the fuel
mileage problem, and even at $3/gal gas is still cheaper than bottled
water.  Exactly who is it that thought the sun was setting on the
classic American V8?

180 Out