 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / June 2005More "pie in the sky" alternate fuel nonsense
Anyone remember "fuel cells?" Back in the 1980s, companies like Ballard Power were going to change the world by producing vehicles that ran on them. What happened? Not much. Now it's hydrogen power. Clean, cheap, etc, etc. What's the catch? You can't store enough in a car (unless you want a vehicle that looks like the Mad Max mobile) to go any distance. So now they are working to develop new materials to store it in some solid form. Good luck. It's not going to happen this decade, maybe not this century. http://www.physorg.com/news4721.html What WILL happen is that they'll develop ultra high pressure vessels to store hydrogen in it's traditional liquid form, and when one of those things runs into a wall, or a car, it won't be like a propane vehicle leak (which is bad enough)where they have to close down a whole block for fear of detonation, the hydrogen vehicle will go off like a small nuclear bomb. Do we really want this kind of thing on the road? Gasoline is safe. It's not stored under pressure and it takes a big accident to make it ignite, and when it does ignite, unlike in the movies, it doesn't go off like 10lbs of dynamite, it just flares. > Do we really want this kind of thing on > the road? We need something because, in case you haven't been paying attention to oil prices, gasoline is getting scarce, and it's only going to get scarcer. Sometimes cold, hard facts are tough to face. The real problem with hydrogen isn't storage or combustibility. Those can be managed, albeit with some inconvenience and compromise. The problem is that hydrogen isn't a primary energy source. It doesn't come from a hole in the ground. It has to be made from something else -- currently either from natural gas, which process is dirty and produces CO2, or from electrolysis of water, which is expensive, requiring electrical power. My vision of our best energy future is safe, modern nuclear plants (augmented with wind, tidal, solar, and whatever else can be made economical) that generate electrical power efficiently enough to make hydrogen feasible. If you crash and explode, so be it. Slow down, at least in traffic.  SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. >> Do we really want this kind of thing on >> the road? > > We need something because, in case you haven't been paying attention to > oil prices, gasoline is getting scarce, HAHAHA!!! Who told you that, Algore?? Signature"Network management is like trying to herd cats." -- Unknown "I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges?" -- TazAmd - Humor Section Gettingtogather.com >>> Do we really want this kind of thing on >>> the road? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > HAHAHA!!! Who told you that, Algore?? No, the market tells me that. The price of oil recently hit a record of $60/barrel. Some knowledgeable observers are predicting a near-term price of over $100/barrel. Have you ever heard of supply and demand? SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. >>> We need something because, in case you haven't been paying attention >>> to oil prices, gasoline is getting scarce, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Have you ever heard of supply and demand? Heve you ever heard of price manipulation? Please.... Signature"Network management is like trying to herd cats." -- Unknown "I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges?" -- TazAmd - Humor Section Gettingtogather.com Have you heard of OPEC? And I suppose you have never heard of corporations being sued and beaten for price fixing..... >>>> Do we really want this kind of thing on >>>> the road? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Have you ever heard of supply and demand? Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Have you heard of OPEC? Yes. They're just being good capitalists, trying to get the most money they can for their resource. > And I suppose you have never heard of > corporations being sued and beaten for price fixing..... Not under this administration. Are you suggesting we sue OPEC? Didn't GWB say in the campaign that he would use his Saudi connections to jawbone OPEC for lower prices? That's worked well, hasn't it? We've depleted our domestic supplies. Every year we import a larger fraction of our oil. The low-hanging fruit has been picked, and new oil fields are more and more difficult and expensive to exploit. Countries like China have explosively increasing demand for oil. That sounds like a recipe for scarcity to me. By the end of the year you may have to spend $100 to fill up your tank, and all the whining about OPEC and evil corporations isn't going to do you any good. SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. The comment re OPEC is that OPEC fixes the prices no matter how available or scarce. >> Have you heard of OPEC? > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >and all the whining about OPEC and evil corporations isn't going to do >you any good. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > The comment re OPEC is that OPEC fixes the prices no matter how > available or scarce. OPEC is only one player in the energy market, albeit a very big one. In any case, the oil is theirs. They can charge anything they want for it, but the market still dictates what you pay for gasoline. When the demand goes up and the supply is constant, then the price goes up. Blaming all that on OPEC is nonsense. SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. I do not believe that at any point i have said it's ALL OPECs fault... Neither is it GWBs fault. >> The comment re OPEC is that OPEC fixes the prices no matter how >> available or scarce. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >goes up and the supply is constant, then the price goes up. Blaming all >that on OPEC is nonsense. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >>>> Do we really want this kind of thing on >>>> the road? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Have you ever heard of supply and demand? Two things to learn here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_sands 1. The remaining portion of the world's proved oil reserves is around 1.75 trillion barrels. Global demand is currently 75M barrels a day. That gives us 64 years of oil supply, if we only count conventional oil, and conservatively ignore new discoveries. Of course, once we consider growing demand, it'll probably be more like 40 years or less, but, 2. conventional oil reserves are dwarfed by non conventional reserves, most importantly oil sand reserves, which are becoming more and more viable every day due to the higher price per barrel, but more importantly, new investment and improved technology for extracting oil from tar sands. The point? We won't be running out of oil in anyone's lifetime currently able to read this post. > Two things to learn here: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The point? We won't be running out of oil in anyone's lifetime > currently able to read this post. Your point is not well taken. "Running out" of oil in the ground and gasoline getting scarce (and therefore expensive) are two different things. The price of gasoline is pretty much determined by the price of oil. The price of oil is determined by the demand (which is growing VERY fast), the cost of production (which, as you point out, is getting higher on average), and the supply, which is controlled by how much the producers are willing to pump and sell, and which in the short term is roughly constant. Anyone who thinks that, under those circumstances, the price of gasoline will not continue to rise is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. Sometimes I get the feeling that people think, "If only Saudi Arabia and those other OPEC countries would pump oil as fast as they can and put it on the market we'd have 25-cents-gallon gasoline again! Yee Hah!" They're probably right, but it's not going to happen. Suppose you're the King of Saudi Arabia and you have to decide on a marketing strategy for your oil. To put it in stark terms, you have two possibilities: 1. Determine what time period and what production rate will maximize your return. It might be, for example, 40 years. The last barrel you sell will go for a very high price indeed, and after 40 years you'll have a great deal of money. 2. Pump it and sell it as fast as possible at whatever price you can get. Then you can go back to herding camels. The choice is clear. OPEC is acting rationally. We (i.e., the US) are not. They're thinking long-term while we're thinking short-term. We should be heavily investing in alternative energy sources, and I think we should be paying for it with a much higher gasoline tax. I wonder what whatever Easter Islander it was who cut down the last tree on his island thought when he did it. In our global economy the world is an island, and if we act without foresight we'll deserve our nasty fate. SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. >Your point is not well taken. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >who thinks that, under those circumstances, the price of gasoline will >not continue to rise is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. Pretty much all commodities rise. >Sometimes I get the feeling that people think, "If only Saudi Arabia and >those other OPEC countries would pump oil as fast as they can and put it >on the market we'd have 25-cents-gallon gasoline again! Yee Hah!" >They're probably right, but it's not going to happen. It could very well happen, Of course if it did, the value of the dollar would be ..... anyway...... >Suppose you're the King of Saudi Arabia and you have to decide on a >marketing strategy for your oil. To put it in stark terms, you have two [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >sell will go for a very high price indeed, and after 40 years you'll >have a great deal of money. But, when that last barrel is pumped, and the world is out of it... how much will that money be worth? >2. Pump it and sell it as fast as possible at whatever price you can >get. Then you can go back to herding camels. in which case, the king would be living on the Riviera while his former subjects herd camels. Makes no difference to him. >The choice is clear. OPEC is acting rationally. We (i.e., the US) are >not. They're thinking long-term while we're thinking short-term. We >should be heavily investing in alternative energy sources, and I think >we should be paying for it with a much higher gasoline tax. And the people you are going to hurt the most with those higher prices are the very people who can least afford to pay it. Why is it that minimum wage people commute 50 miles and several hours to get to work in the city? Because there is no place closer that they can afford to live. So, before you do that, you should probably invest in an infrastructure of rapid transit nation wide for those commuters. Which will cost the taxpayers how much? And again, who gets hurt the worst by it? I just think your answer is to simplistic because it fails to consider the impacts on all levels of society unequally. >I wonder what whatever Easter Islander it was who cut down the last tree >on his island thought when he did it. In our global economy the world is >an island, and if we act without foresight we'll deserve our nasty fate. Gee, the last time I looked, there were still small groves of trees growing there. And if there was such an islander, it's doubtful he gave it a thought for he surely had a reason behind his madness.... Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Your point is not well taken. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > who thinks that, under those circumstances, the price of gasoline will > not continue to rise is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. My point about the tar sands changes this, however. When the price of oil gets to a certain level, the tar sands will be completely cost viable, almost guaranteeing the price will eventually level out as the tar sands become the most dominant petroleum source, and reliance on OPEC oil will be eliminated. > Sometimes I get the feeling that people think, "If only Saudi Arabia and > those other OPEC countries would pump oil as fast as they can and put it [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > should be heavily investing in alternative energy sources, and I think > we should be paying for it with a much higher gasoline tax. I couldn't agree more. > I wonder what whatever Easter Islander it was who cut down the last tree > on his island thought when he did it. In our global economy the world is > an island, and if we act without foresight we'll deserve our nasty fate. I guess we agree again. I personally think we're out of control on energy waste. I see the price of fuel as a blessing: hopefully it goes high enough so that people become more prudent. Besides, I've always scratched my head over why people are so caught up in complaining about a refined product that sells for a paltry 80 or 90 per litre when a litre of milk is two or three times as much. >My point about the tar sands changes this, however. When the price of >oil gets to a certain level, the tar sands will be completely cost >viable, almost guaranteeing the price will eventually level out as the >tar sands become the most dominant petroleum source, and reliance on >OPEC oil will be eliminated. Much as precious metal prices can rise high enough for "played out" mines to become profitable again. >> Sometimes I get the feeling that people think, "If only Saudi Arabia and >> those other OPEC countries would pump oil as fast as they can and put it [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >a refined product that sells for a paltry 80 or 90 per litre when a >litre of milk is two or three times as much. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >>My point about the tar sands changes this, however. When the price of >>oil gets to a certain level, the tar sands will be completely cost [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Much as precious metal prices can rise high enough for "played out" > mines to become profitable again. I appreciate pawn's point, and I hope he's right, and I hope that an oil-supply respite from tar sands wakes us up to the long term resource problem we face. If the production cost of tar-sand oil is comparable to that of alternative energy sources, we just might have a chance of avoiding disaster. If it's lower I'm afraid we'll just keep doing what we've been doing -- drinking from the trough with no thought for the future. SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. Considering the traditional animosity between Russia and China, and with China's growing power and Russia's weakened power, Russia may be less disposed to supplying the Asian market. While their primary production is natural gas supplied to Europe, a lot of advancement with US Corporate assistance should open up additional oil reserves not previously available due to frigid conditions and a lack of technology necessary to get it out of the ground. May not amount to much, but it may be of some help. What concessions may be required to broker the deals is in question. >>>My point about the tar sands changes this, however. When the price of >>>oil gets to a certain level, the tar sands will be completely cost [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >avoiding disaster. If it's lower I'm afraid we'll just keep doing what >we've been doing -- drinking from the trough with no thought for the future. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >>>>> Do we really want this kind of thing on >>>>> the road? [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >The point? We won't be running out of oil in anyone's lifetime >currently able to read this post. No, we won't. But if the greedy industry refuses to up refining capacity, we could see steadily increasing prices for years. It's presently projected that in another 20 years you will see hydrogen stations all over the place, just as in the beginning, gas stations were very rare. The vehicle designs are moving toward storage in cells throughout the chassis rather than a single tank in the trunk. Essentially, the cabin area sits over the propulsion section. There is even talk of a capsule type cabin much like those used for hydroplanes which, in the event of an explosion would separate from the propulsion unit. Electrolysis will continue to be the method of breaking down water. Hydrogen's waste byproduct is water vapor, which is even safe to drink right from the exhaust (if you're that hard up for something to drink). Present hydrogen storage is safer than gasoline according to the latest crash tests. Hydrogen produces more power per volume (60-80% vs gasoline's roughly 40%). As for gasoline being safer... that's relative. True that in "most" cases, it burns rather than explodes, however, when it does explode it does so with the equivalence of approximately 12 sticks of dynamite per gallon (California Department of Justice Crime Lab) depending on the amount of vapor. Hydrogen tends to dissipate rapidly in air in the small amounts used for vehicle propulsion, while gasoline will easily soak clothing, etc, and it's oily properties cause it to adhere, thus making it harder to get rid of in the event of an ignition. If you want something to fear.... take one LNP container ship parked in any port, and have it explode. If you want cheaper, environmentally friendly, then we are back to hitching up animals. Of course, they won't be setting any records in the quarter mile..... I'm waiting for Ron Propeil to come up with something new to go with the Chop-O-Matic.... >Anyone remember "fuel cells?" Back in the 1980s, companies >like Ballard Power were going to change the world by producing [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >unlike in the movies, it doesn't go off like 10lbs of dynamite, it >just flares. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 >It's presently projected that in another 20 years you will see >hydrogen stations all over the place, just as in the beginning, gas >stations were very rare. You'll have to see them all over, since you'll be filling up every 50 miles. >The vehicle designs are moving toward storage in cells throughout the >chassis rather than a single tank in the trunk. Essentially, the cabin [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >the latest crash tests. Hydrogen produces more power per volume >(60-80% vs gasoline's roughly 40%). Only because it's on buses where you can afford to use space to reinforced the tanks. Cars are another matter. >As for gasoline being safer... that's relative. True that in "most" >cases, it burns rather than explodes, however, when it does explode it [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" >w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 Like anything else... improvements are constant. The manufacturers will push the envelope of engineering to exceed limitations because they know there's no profit in something nobody will buy. And apparently, you didn't see the prototypes I looked at. The same cab forward look of the GM types, the interior floor space was pretty wide open. The propulsion unit with fuel storage (not counting wheel height) is approximately 8" deep. Apparently for repairs, the cabin separates from the propulsion unit. Not too bad a concept for starters. But, what's the problem? New technologies come along all the time. They don't spread through the masses overnight. It takes years. Consider the time it took for computers to go from monsters with less power than the pocket calculator to the pc and notebooks of today. Or how long it took Al Gore to create the internet and spread it, with Bill gates help, around the globe.... >You'll have to see them all over, since you'll be filling up every 50 >miles. [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] >>Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" >>w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Or > how long it took Al Gore to create the internet and spread it, with > Bill gates help, around the globe.... This never fails to piss me off. Gore never claimed any such thing. It's a big f.cking wing-nut LIE! Gore took credit, rightfully, for shedherding the Internet through the government and opening it to the public, when just about everyone else in government was completely uninterested and clueless. All of us who use the Internet owe him a lot of gratitude. People who actually DID invent the Internet, like Vinton G. Cerf, give Gore a great deal of credit. If you're interested in the true story, and not the stupid, dishonest wing-nut spin, see: http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/ BTW, Bill Gates had nothing to do with the Internet. He thought it was oversold and overhyped, and he was dead wrong. SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. I wonder why it is that it's OK to make jokes about the president, or even to slander, but say something against Al Gore and it's like spitting on the Pope. Why are his supporters so darn defensive. Is it because they know he is a flake? They must have watched those Uncle Adolf speeches. I'd vote for Ted kennedy before I'd vote for Gore.... and that's going wayyyyyyyy off the deep end. And, no, I'm not a Republican either. >> Or >> how long it took Al Gore to create the internet and spread it, with [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >BTW, Bill Gates had nothing to do with the Internet. He thought it was >oversold and overhyped, and he was dead wrong. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > I wonder why it is that it's OK to make jokes about the president, or > even to slander, but say something against Al Gore and it's like > spitting on the Pope. Jokes are fine, but in this case something that just isn't true has become "common knowledge." SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. You must never listen to any comedians, Jay Leno, or read anything on the .orgs......And you think things said about the Republicans, and in particular, the President, which were obviously either untrue, or bent out of proportion, have not become accepted "fact"? Like the one about President Bush knew in advance that the terrorists were going to drop the WTC? Just as was alleged against FDR regarding Pearl Harbor? I even heard that nobody was killed in the WTC attack. That it was just an excuse for the US to go to war. And all the people who would have been were spirited away before hand and are being held in Area 51, and are the basis for the show The 4400".. >> I wonder why it is that it's OK to make jokes about the president, or >> even to slander, but say something against Al Gore and it's like >> spitting on the Pope. > >Jokes are fine, but in this case something that just isn't true has >become "common knowledge." Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > You must never listen to any comedians, Jay Leno, or read anything on > the .orgs......And you think things said about the Republicans, and in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > have been were spirited away before hand and are being held in Area > 51, and are the basis for the show The 4400".. I deplore and condemn all that misinformation. It just so happens that those weren't the lies you were spreading around. SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. Still at the old it's OK for you to say/repeat anything which is against the present administration whether or not it's factual, but I am spreading lies if you don't agree with what I say. Seems I am not the only one who heard the comments you deny he made, and you seem overly sensitive about the whole thing. >> You must never listen to any comedians, Jay Leno, or read anything on >> the .orgs......And you think things said about the Republicans, and in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I deplore and condemn all that misinformation. It just so happens that >those weren't the lies you were spreading around. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > Still at the old it's OK for you to say/repeat anything which is > against the present administration whether or not it's factual, No, that's not OK. It's only OK when you stick to the facts. There are plenty of damning facts about this administration -- there's no need to make stuff up. SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. >> Or >> how long it took Al Gore to create the internet and spread it, with [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > BTW, Bill Gates had nothing to do with the Internet. He thought it was > oversold and overhyped, and he was dead wrong. I think when Gore made that comment he was being self serving. Just as he was when he halted the presidential election of 2000. here's an e-mail from Vinton G. Cerf http://web.archive.org/web/20000125065813/http://www.mids.org/mn/904/vcerf.html >> Or >> how long it took Al Gore to create the internet and spread it, with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > uninterested and clueless. All of us who use the Internet owe him a lot > of gratitude. Umm excuse me, You are either ignorant, lying yourself. Algore may have *meant* that, but that was *not* what he said. I was persoanlly watching Good Morning America the day he said that. What he said was "I took the iniciative in creat; to cerate the Internet...." So no, it is *not* a lie. I witnessed it come out of his mouth and I am sure many others did as well. Signature"Network management is like trying to herd cats." -- Unknown "I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges?" -- TazAmd - Humor Section Gettingtogather.com >>> Or >>> how long it took Al Gore to create the internet and spread it, with [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >*not* a lie. I witnessed it come out of his mouth and I am sure many >others did as well. And his statement is true. He helped CREATE it. He never said he invented it, which is what the liars usually claim. He worked to get a bill passed in congress that would provide funding for what later became what we now call the Internet. Yet you and others want to damn him for that and misscharacterize what he said to serve your own partisan goals. create.... invent.... semantics..... and he never said he helped his uncle clear his land of trees with an axe in order to grow crops. As I recall, Al Gore is a baby boomer. As I further recall, that which would become the internet was a system developed during WWII between several universities in order to share information for the dev elopement of the atomic bomb. That universities had been sharing information using that system ever since. I do not see how he could have helped create something which already existed and was being funded. Even the Democratic party has turned it's back on him, and denounced his rhetoric as too rabid to win an election. A decision Hillary happily accepts.... >>>> Or >>>> how long it took Al Gore to create the internet and spread it, with [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >him for that and misscharacterize what he said to serve your own >partisan goals. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > As I further recall, that which > would become the internet was a system developed during WWII between > several universities in order to share information for the dev > elopement of the atomic bomb. Your recollection is incorrect. The Internet started in the late 60s as the ARPANET, funded by DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (then ARPA). The transition from a restricted network for government projects to a utility open to everyone was what Gore rightly takes some credit for. SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. That is correct, however, there was a system which went before that. To ignore what went before is to ignore history, or even to alter it, as is in vogue today. Gore would take credit for parting the red Sea for Moses if he thought it would advance his political career. >> As I further recall, that which >> would become the internet was a system developed during WWII between [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >transition from a restricted network for government projects to a >utility open to everyone was what Gore rightly takes some credit for. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 > That is correct, however, there was a system which went before that. > To ignore what went before is to ignore history, or even to alter it, > as is in vogue today. Oh for God's sake, Spike. There weren't even any computers in WWII. It's totally absurd to suggest that the Internet started in WWII. > Gore would take credit for parting the red Sea for Moses if he thought > it would advance his political career. In that respect he's no better or worse than any other politician, but this difference in this case is that Gore really WAS an important figure in the creation of the civilian Internet and he deserves a great deal of credit for his foresight and energy. SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. The forerunner to the computerized system we know today was done by land lines and machines which spewed out a tickertape to transmit information between divisions of projects. A very crude and rudimentary "computer" system. Of course, so is the abacus. As for Al, he has become his own worst enemy, and that's fine with me. >> That is correct, however, there was a system which went before that. >> To ignore what went before is to ignore history, or even to alter it, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >in the creation of the civilian Internet and he deserves a great deal of >credit for his foresight and energy. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 My personal belief is that we will see more and more diesels on the road... biodiesel well in excess of 50% will become normal. Fuel cell technology is still pricey while biodiesel (5% ) is a reality. Who knows what we may wake up to in the morning? Whatever, I think it will be nothing less than interesting. > Anyone remember "fuel cells?" Back in the 1980s, companies > like Ballard Power were going to change the world by producing [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > not this century. > Actually a fuel cell is powered by Hydrogen and fuel cells have been in use by NASA for years. I've read an article about small home generators being run by them. Running a car won't be much farther away. Signature"Network management is like trying to herd cats." -- Unknown "I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges?" -- TazAmd - Humor Section Gettingtogather.com A lot of people tend to forget all the advancements which have come from NASA, as well as all the advancements which improve our daily lives thanks to developments made for military use. Some of which are in use for many years before the public sees the benefits. >> Anyone remember "fuel cells?" Back in the 1980s, companies >> like Ballard Power were going to change the world by producing [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >been in use by NASA for years. I've read an article about small home >generators being run by them. Running a car won't be much farther away. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
|
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.