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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / July 2005Is Retro Good?
I found this article about retro designs and thought I'd share my thoughts. "Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories, but four failures. Take a look: Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure." NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with its nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag. "Volkswagen's New Beetle, sinking every year." NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The new Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn! "Chevrolet's SSR, never reached sales targets." NoOp Comment: Again, too fat and too high a price tag, plus a flexy frame. "Chrysler's PT Cruiser, not really a failure but far from the success it should be." Sales have cooled lately, but then it hasn't been revised in years. I'd say the PT has done well. "On the success side, we have the MINI." NoOp Comment: Because it was done right. Cars that are done right succeed. "Of course, that Mustang is running strong, although it is new so we don't know how long she will prance." NoOp Comment: Again becuase did it right. And as long as gas prices stay reasonable the new Mustang is going to prance for a long time. "And there's a new one, the Chevy HHR, which looks like it might have arrived late to the party." NoOp Comment: It's do great as long as it's priced reasonably, it's screwed together well, and the details are done right. "It's also possible to take a bit of the past without going retro: The Chrysler 300 is like that. There's something about it that points back, but it's not retro." NoOp Comment: But without those retro touches it would be just another Mercedes product. What are your thoughts? Patrick '93 Cobra '03 Focus ZX3 NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > "Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories, > but four failures. Take a look: > Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure." > > NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with its > nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag. And it looks like a girly car. Not nearly enough of the original mid 50s testosterone.  Signature"This space for rent." > NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360 > @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > And it looks like a girly car. Not nearly enough of the original mid 50s > testosterone. And a really wussy V8. SignatureScott W. '66 HCS Mustang 289 '68 Ranchero 500 302 '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ThunderSnake #57 http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/ NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > I found this article about retro designs and thought I'd share my > thoughts. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with its > nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag. And not quite enough power. > "Volkswagen's New Beetle, sinking every year." > > NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The new > Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn! It hasn't evolved enough. It's certainly not the "old" Beetle, but I do see a helluva lot of girls and women driving them... > "Chevrolet's SSR, never reached sales targets." > > NoOp Comment: Again, too fat and too high a price tag, plus a flexy > frame. And pretty much useless except for a joyride or a quick trip to the 7- 11. > "Chrysler's PT Cruiser, not really a failure but far from the success > it should be." > > Sales have cooled lately, but then it hasn't been revised in years. > I'd say the PT has done well. I think the PT has done extremely well. When it first came out you couldn't get one, and discounts on it were impossible. Sounds like the '05 Mustang, right? IIRC, the PT is due for a makeover soon, so we'll have to see what effect that has on sales. > "On the success side, we have the MINI." > > NoOp Comment: Because it was done right. Cars that are done right > succeed. And two other things: It's cool-looking as hell, and it's associated with BMW. > "Of course, that Mustang is running strong, although it is new so we > don't know how long she will prance." > > NoOp Comment: Again becuase did it right. And as long as gas prices > stay reasonable the new Mustang is going to prance for a long time. Absolutely. I just don't understand why Ford isn't making more of them to meet demand. > "And there's a new one, the Chevy HHR, which looks like it might have > arrived late to the party." > > NoOp Comment: It's do great as long as it's priced reasonably, it's > screwed together well, and the details are done right. Personally, I think it looks like a bastardized Jeep Liberty meets PT Cruiser. It simply doesn't have that cool look like the Mini has. Even the Scion XB looks better IMO. > "It's also possible to take a bit of the past without going retro: The > Chrysler 300 is like that. There's something about it that points back, > but it's not retro." > > NoOp Comment: But without those retro touches it would be just another > Mercedes product. The 300 comes across as truly American, with its big wheels and "chopped"-style top. MBs have the traditional Euro flavor. > What are your thoughts? > > Patrick > '93 Cobra > '03 Focus ZX3 Joe <avoidingspam@nospam.com> wrote in news:jfyxe.25964$du.13419 @bignews1.bellsouth.net: >> NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The > new >> Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn! > > It hasn't evolved enough. It's certainly not the "old" Beetle, but I > do see a helluva lot of girls and women driving them... News for ya... the OLD beetle wasnt all that great. Look at ALL of VW's reliability figures... fits right in there. AND BTW, Audi perenially sux, too. I have NO idea why some people think VW/Audi are 'better' than American... everytime they bring out a new model, the car mags praise them to high heaven... then after a few years acknowledge the much needed improvements of the NEXT over that one. All started with the 100LS which was a POS right out the box. So was the rabbit, now the Jedda, and dont say it's Mexico... ask a recent owner about Passat's coil-pack problem and how it seems like VW was 'blind-sided' I'll take good old H'umericun pieces of carap > Joe <avoidingspam@nospam.com> wrote in news:jfyxe.25964$du.13419 > @bignews1.bellsouth.net: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > News for ya... the OLD beetle wasnt all that great. It was great in the sense that you could fix it with a hairpin and duct tape. Not to mention that they ran forever. And an added plus was that they floated. ;) > Look at ALL of VW's reliability figures... fits right in there. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I'll take good old H'umericun pieces of carap Actually, so will I. And believe me, I'm not defending the Beetle because I think it's basically a POS. But it still seems like a lot of women drive them because they're "cute" or something. Joe <avoidingspam@nospam.com> wrote in news:HxAxe.12316$ho.9601 @bignews6.bellsouth.net: > It was great in the sense that you could fix it with a hairpin and > duct tape. Not to mention that they ran forever. And an added plus > was that they floated. ;) Overheating in hot climes was a big problem. An outboard oil cooler helped some. A friend of mine who had one said that the aluminum block would allow head bolts to creep out until the head gaskets blew. The cure for that was deep seated head studs. Other than that, the only problem I saw with the was the size (bad in an accident) and drawing interior heat from the exhaust manifolds. Hard to get your windows defrosted and could be deadly with an exhaust leak. Signature"This space for rent." > Joe <avoidingspam@nospam.com> wrote in news:jfyxe.25964$du.13419 > @bignews1.bellsouth.net: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > I'll take good old H'umericun pieces of carap I bought the new style Passat as a 2001.5, which is the same car they are currently producing. I drove if for three years and when the lease was up my son bought it and is still driving it. This has been the best car I've owned and about the only one I never tired of. Son had to take it in for it's first repair a couple of months ago, a sticking throttle linkage was causing it to idle too low. Fixed in about fifteen minutes. The Passat is really just an Audi A-4 with a VW shell and interior (which is of better quality then most high end luxury sedans), but sells for allot less. I got mine fully loaded with the 1.8T motor for just about 27K. I know of no other sedan in the Passat's price range that can top it. Great car! > I bought the new style Passat as a 2001.5, which is the same car they are > currently producing. I drove if for three years and when the lease was up [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > mine fully loaded with the 1.8T motor for just about 27K. I know of no > other sedan in the Passat's price range that can top it. Great car! My wife had a Passat. It had problems too numerous to list. Two clutches, new computer, etc., etc. A couple of times the "check engine light" came on while she was driving it out the dealership after a repair. The final straw: Immediately after having a major scheduled maintenance service, she was driving it to our summer place in Idaho when the timing belt broke in the middle of the desert. Of course, the engine was trashed. It was towed to the nearest VW dealership in Twin Falls and a new engine was ordered. It took about two months to arrive. (In the meantime, she had to buy another car.) The new engine was installed and when they fired it up they found it had seriously bad noises coming from the valve train. So, they ordered another engine, and it took another two months. I sold that piece of sh.t immediately, on consignment so that the new owner wouldn't know where I live. It was far and away the worst lemon I've ever owned. SignatureCut "to the chase" for my email address. > > "On the success side, we have the MINI." > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And two other things: It's cool-looking as hell, and it's associated > with BMW. Tight handling. Plenty of power. Ergonomics of the interior, controls and seats are excellent. Geez what's so difficult about that? An SVT Focus could have easily met these criteria given the right management mindset. Howard 1989 LX vert 5.0 NoOption5L@aol.com wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > I found this article about retro designs and thought I'd share my > thoughts. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > '93 Cobra > '03 Focus ZX3 There's a difference..... though I have a jaundiced eye, given my age.. seems to me there are only a couple cars there that could pass for current styling trend-setter, meaning it COULD have happened without retro intent.. The Mustang being the most significant and best executed. And it will be interesting to see the 05 model's satisfaction results on JD Powers in a few years. no retro sucks heh heh heh.... had to. Looking in the paper this weekend, 6 out of 11 movies are remakes. retro is all the rage. *sigh* go figure. IMHO, it took Ford 35 years to finally get the styling right with the 2005 Mustang - but then again, I am a *bit* biased... Yet another $.02 worth from a proud owner of a 1970 Mach 1 351C @ http://community.webshots.com/album/18644819fHAehGJAjt >I found this article about retro designs and thought I'd share my > thoughts. > "Of course, that Mustang is running strong, although it is new so we > don't know how long she will prance." . . . > What are your thoughts? My thoughts are that you are an inveterate bore, Patrick. If I keep checking in here roughly once / year, I will continue, as I have since 1997, to find the same regurgitated crap, coupled with flimsy, anecdotal and incomplete analysis, as always. To prove my point, I will produce a gem from your (cue awe-inspiring musical segue) *veteran member* Patrick, from early 1997: "Per MM&FF magazine (Feb '97) the next Cobra R will be powered by the "low tech" pushrod 351 Windsor. Why is Ford going to race this motor instead of the latest and greatest 4.6 liter modular motors? If the OHC/DOHC motors are as good as you say it is and the "future", why send us mixed messages? Is it because the 351W is cheaper and easier to modify, better durability?, with the extra bonus of low end torque. If it is, thanks a lot Ford, make US shell out the big bucks trying to stay up with the competion when racing! I don't know what their reasoning is, but if they want us to embrace the 4.6 liter motor's this is not the way to do it! Patrick" Oh, look, it's regurgitated news, open-ended questions, incomplete analysis with no real conclusions made, and a your opinion, stated in typically weak fashion. I've always known more about this sh.t than you, Pat. You're just some middle-aged, middle-of-the-road guy who happens to own a Mustang (oh, and a Focus, too), when it comes right down to it. Do I need to say "bench racer" again? It's been at least 7 1/2 years now of that crap, for Christ's sake. It's just old, and tired. It was on day one. And whether you'd like to admit it or not, I've been around here at least a year longer, albeit mostly in lurk mode. I am also markedly more clever than you, and always will be. I am engaging and interesting. People like you have always bored the living sh.t out of me. God, I wonder what an EKG of your medulla oblongata would look like. Sure, on the dark side, I can be an unstable, angry loudmouth, with proven psycho drunk tendencies. But at least I'm not so GODDAMNED BORING. I am a passionate person. And I live accordingly. I live life, and don't just stand back and talk about it, Pat. Oh, unemployment. I came out smelling like roses. I never give up. I never quit. I always have and always will fight until I fall over. And as for you, so, you ran a marathon? Good deal. May your health continue to be good, and your health insurance premiums continue to be low. May you quantify all your achievements on spreadsheets, and do NPV analysis on all your purchases. It's hardly inspiring. You even counted your paces on this marathon, and reported them here, proud as a peacock. But who the f.ck really cares? Suck the marrow. Tempt the Grim Reaper every now and again, it's fun. Quit organizing things and use them. And don't spew forth the details of your medical past again, either. I just don't care. Oh, and I'm also thinking it's damned funny you include your Focus in your sig file. I'll be sure to come back and rip on you next year, Patrick Milquetoast. SignatureWound Up ThunderSnake #65 >I found this article about retro designs and thought I'd share my > thoughts. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > '93 Cobra > '03 Focus ZX3 <snip> Sounds to me like you're a challenged know nothing who needs to find someone to attack to make himself feel better. There wasn't anything wrong with any of the stuff you quoted. Once a year? Why not make it never? or get over your obsession. Anyone who saved a post from 1997 must surely be obsessed. Signature"This space for rent." |
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