 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / September 20051965 289 starting problem
A friend of mine has a 65 mustang that was built by an unknown builder in New York. He bought it off a lot, so he doens't know much about the parts in it. It seems pretty straight forward, with a mostly bare engine bay. It has a 289 V8 in it with "cobra" valve covers. Forgive me if I'm not 100% on identifying the heritage of the car, I'm normally a Nissan L6 guy, but I'm helping the friend out since I'm a lot more mechanically inclined than he is. The problems he is having with it started after he let it sit outside for a few weeks. The weather has been alternating thunderstorms and 90-100F for the duration. Initially he told me that he had a coolant leak. I had a look, and the gasket on the thermostat housing towards the bottom (water pump side) was leaking. I replaced that without issue. At this point (before the r&r gasket was done), we tried to turn the motor over. It was a little sluggish, and turned a little, making a loud buzzing or clicking noise. It did not start. I suspect it is kind of a high compression motor because in the past, it starts sort of hard, but it really starts when it takes. The car has glasspacks, and as far as I can tell, no muffler or cat, and 4-1 headers with 3" collectors. After the gasket was replaced, we waited 24 hours for the RTV to cure, and went to start the car. At this point it would not turn at all, but was still making the buzzing/clicking noise. We attempted to jump the car, and still got no turnover. The car is not possessed of a voltmeter (wtf?). The lights and other accessories work. At this point, I am thinking that it is the starter, but since the car is sitting at a parking lot on base, I don't want to go replacing the starter, putting it on a jack, etc, if I am not 100% it is the starter. For what it's worth, I'm an ASE certified mechanic and can do the swap myself, but I'm unfamiliar with this vintage and brand of car. If you could email-cc me, that would be super. Thanks, alex I see the point.. elaborate troll, tiring of making up urban Katrina legends. "I'm ASE certified.. but only passed because I have a photographic memory" Evidently. Wow, that's reaching. I'm not trolling. I've been very active on the IZCC (http://zhome.com/) mailing list in the past. I just work on computers for a living now. I took the ASE exams in college, back in 1998. At the time I owned a fuel injected four cylinder, and a fuel injected six cylinder. If you're familiar at all with the exams, you'll understand that you don't need to know everything about everything to pass them. I took and passed A1 and A8, with the hope of getting a smog tech certification. That's automotive engine performance and chassis/suspension/brakes. What's getting me is that the technology is substantially larger, louder, and older than anything I have in my two vehicles (a 1982 Nissan and a 1999 Buick). I'm just asking for a consensus diagnosis on the starter. Don't get your knickers in a wad. I realize there's been a lot of trolling recently, I read the newsgroup before posting. I'm just a regular guy who happened to ask a question on a damn newsgroup. > Don't get your knickers in a wad. I realize there's been a lot of > trolling recently, I read the newsgroup before posting. I'm just a > regular guy who happened to ask a question on a damn newsgroup. You see, this is why effective troll control, and the other measures mentioned (most excellently by Jafo) must be in place to ensure the survival of hobbyist newsgroups. Everyone gets edgy and pissy. People are presumed guilty of being liars when they just might not be. Consider, for a moment, that this person is honest. Then decide after a few exchanges whether or not you want to talk to them. It's just that simple. I took C in college (the language), but I couldn't write you a function stub if you had a gun to my head. OTOH, I can still recite lines of Sartre's plays, with completely correct grammar, from memory. People's minds work differently.  SignatureWound Up ThunderSnake #65 While a photographic memory may be a plus, to be a tech, you neeed the skill to diagnose problems in a logical fashion and to base your next step on the results of the previous step. Possessing a certificate means nothing if we can't back that up with knowledge. Would you listen to a doctor that is unfamiliar with the human body but passed because he/she has a photographic memory. I would suggest that you possess "dime store" jumper cables that can't carry the required current (that you state that the lights work fine shows that you have little understanding of current requirements for the starting system). It may sound harsh but I can only suggest that both you and friend may be better served if you help him find a real tech and then take him for a beer. If you're still game to try diagnosing and repairing this..... Electricity works the same in a new Honda as it does in a 40 year old Ford.... Purchase a good quality DMM and learn to use it correctly. Without this step, you will be doomed to asking questions in NGs. Jim, thanks for your concern. I've replaced the starter on several cars, alternators, air conditioning, fuel injectors, intake and exhaust manifolds, turbochargers, et cetera, in addition to doing all the normal maintenance. I'm quite capable of doing this. It may surprise you that not everyone carries a great set of jumper cables in their back pocket. In fact, I have a set in my Z, but I was asked to go look at this friends car today. I brought a small toolchest and my leatherman. I wasn't the one who jumped the car, it was said friend and a coworker. I'm just relaying the information, as I said, to get a consensus diagnosis. Furthermore, we are talking about a starter here, not an airbag, or brakes, or anything else crucial. The comparison to a medical doctor is something of a logical fallacy. Working on otto-cycle engines is a lot like riding a bike, to use the adage. That having been said, if you look at the starter for a 1982 280ZX, and the starter that's on that 289, they're very different units. The wiring from the battery to the starter is different. Everything's located in a different place. And, it's been at least six years since I had a car on jackstands. I've done a lot of preventative maintenance for friends. The only reason being "doomed" to ask questions in a newsgroup is doom at all is people like yourself bite the heads off people with honest questions. And, before you start, don't give me some song and dance about there being trolls afoot. You may have heard the expression, "don't feed the trolls." Well, the idea here is that trolls aim to make the internet a less pleasant place for their own amusement. To go and kick every newcomer in the teeth is to let them have your newsgroup. I was more than polite in my original question, and even went the extra step of saying that I realized there had been trolling, and qualifying my original question after I was accused of trolling. This ad hominem stuff is for children and people who don't understand that this is a community. I'm frankly shocked at how unfriendly the two of you were. I've never experienced that in the other automotive communities I've participated in (which, for the sake of not starting a brand argument, I won't mention). I will dredge up my larger toolbox, get the voltmeter from it, suggest the owner buy a Haynes manual if he wants me to work on his car, and go perform a proper jump with a proper set of cables. Thank you, "Wound Up," for your input. I'll see what I can find out, if I can fix the problem, and post a summary if I can. > Jim, thanks for your concern. > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > Thank you, "Wound Up," for your input. I'll see what I can find out, if > I can fix the problem, and post a summary if I can. Not a problem. It should be a simple process of elimination, because if it ran to begin with, things were in the ballpark. That said, keep in mind that these old small blocks will run with stuff fairly far off spec compared to what you've spent most of your time with. Tweaks will likely be necessary. One 289 of mine ran ok when I had the distributor off a tooth on the advance side, and as I recall, there are only eight teeth. "Where are the timing marks? Oh... way down there..." I'd replace the points with a Pertronix Ignitor as soon as you get it running reliably ($79, 15 min., never mess with the points again). Best of luck with it. SignatureWound Up ThunderSnake #65 > Jim, thanks for your concern. > > I've replaced the starter on several cars, alternators, air > conditioning, fuel injectors, intake and exhaust manifolds, > turbochargers, et cetera, in addition to doing all the normal > maintenance. I'm quite capable of doing this. You're missing the point. I agree, it sounds more like your battery is low and the cables are not good enough. The starter is probably old, flywheel a little warped, chrome rings, a little higher compression; all factor working together making the need for a hot battery with good amperage. Signature"Gullible is a misdemeanor - stupid is a felony... clueless gets you committed..." - JG avriette@gmail.com wrote in news:1126216254.615255.13150 @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > Don't get your knickers in a wad. I realize there's been a lot of > trolling recently, I read the newsgroup before posting. I'm just a > regular guy who happened to ask a question on a damn newsgroup. my apologies, then... and good for you in taking the tests as a civilian. > A friend of mine has a 65 mustang that was built by an unknown builder > in New York. He bought it off a lot, so he doens't know much about the > parts in it. It seems pretty straight forward, with a mostly bare > engine bay. It has a 289 V8 in it with "cobra" valve covers. Those are available as a dress-up kit. They usually don't indicate anything. Forgive me > if I'm not 100% on identifying the heritage of the car, I'm normally a > Nissan L6 guy, but I'm helping the friend out since I'm a lot more [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > it takes. The car has glasspacks, and as far as I can tell, no muffler > or cat, and 4-1 headers with 3" collectors. It would be impossible to say without a compression test compared to some original specs. How about voltage at the battery while running? What is the amp rating of the battery? If it didn't have a starter that was up to snuff, and it had enough compression, you might be right about that. The solenoid is cheap; replace it. Check the basics first. Check the starting and ignition circuits for obvious faults. Check the ground strap. Replace the voltage regulator as well, they're cheap, too. These circuits are prone to failure. Make sure everything is clean and bright and no arcing is going on. > After the gasket was replaced, we waited 24 hours for the RTV to cure, > and went to start the car. At this point it would not turn at all, but > was still making the buzzing/clicking noise. We attempted to jump the > car, and still got no turnover. > > The car is not possessed of a voltmeter (wtf?). They came with ammeters. You'll have to use an external voltmeter or install one. The lights and other > accessories work. At this point, I am thinking that it is the starter, > but since the car is sitting at a parking lot on base, I don't want to > go replacing the starter, putting it on a jack, etc, if I am not 100% > it is the starter. Check the other things first. > For what it's worth, I'm an ASE certified mechanic and can do the swap > myself, but I'm unfamiliar with this vintage and brand of car. Sort of out of practice, no? Regardless, just look at the things responsible for starting it. Cap, rotor, plug wires, points, dizz, pull a plug or two, etc. Assume nothing with a 40-year-old car. > If you could email-cc me, that would be super. I don't do that. Just check back here. > Thanks, > alex SignatureWound Up ThunderSnake #65 >> A friend of mine has a 65 mustang that was built by an unknown builder >> in New York. He bought it off a lot, so he doens't know much about the [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >They came with ammeters. You'll have to use an external voltmeter or >install one. they did??? my 65 has an idiot light, only 65 gt's came with meters. >The lights and other >> accessories work. At this point, I am thinking that it is the starter, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Thanks, >> alex try a solenoid first, your description exactly matches this. And the ASE stuff, I don't believe in it either although I am ASE master certified and Honda Platinum certified. That's all just paper though. Chip Where is the buzzing sound coming from? Likely the starter solenoid. Located on the inside fender, passenger side, large, short, stubby cylinder with bolts. Quite inexpensive, very easy to replace. Just make sure you mark the wires or switch them one at a time from the old to new. Replaced mine recently, symptom was no starting and a buzzing sound coming from it. Oh, make sure you disconnect the battery first..... Michel. <snip> The problems he is having with it started after he let it sit outside > for a few weeks. The weather has been alternating thunderstorms and > 90-100F for the duration. > .....we tried to turn the motor over. It was a little > sluggish, and turned a little, making a loud buzzing or clicking noise. > It did not start. .... > Where is the buzzing sound coming from? Likely the starter solenoid. > Located [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Michel. Clean the battery terminals. Put your cheapie jumper cables on and let the other car run. Leave it that way for 15 or 20 minutes to charge the Mustang's battery. Then try to start it. Al |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.