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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / October 2005Warped camshaft or crankshaft?
My father had a 1990 Mustang GT that lost some its "guts" or power so my father purchased another car and let it sit idle for the last 4 years. Anyway, I have a 15 year old kid who begged for it and I finally caved. When I asked my father why he thought it lost its power he said that when he took it to a mechanic, the mechanic thought that water may have gotten in through the exhaust manifild and warped the camshaft (he also could have said crankshaft not sure). Does this sound plausible? I started reading up on working on engines because I thought this would be an interesting, and costly journey, and from a lot of stuff I read it seems that a lot of things can happen to rob power from your engine, and suggestions at minimum were a compression test, and even better a vacuum (leakdown) test to diagnose the issue. I started thinking that maybe I could avoid a rebuild if I did some further tests like vacuum and compression, but now I am afraid of what the inside of the engine might look like after being idle for 4 years. Especially because we live in the Northeast. Also, what do I do with the old gas that's still in the car? I imagine I could try and siphon it out, but what do I do with it then? Thanks for any advice. I don't believe a warped cam or crank is a plausible issue with this car, both conditions would have cause catastrophic engine damage as well as these things don't happen to a running engine. All of whatever fuel is left must be done away with, and the fuel system should be flushed out. Oil and filter change, engine cranked over with no plugs and fuel pump shut off. There will other issues with a 4 year improper storage. But see if you can get it running first. Where in the NE?, check with local regs for fuel disposal. Of course at best all this will bring the car back to the original no power problem. > My father had a 1990 Mustang GT that lost some its "guts" or power so > my father purchased another car and let it sit idle for the last 4 [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Thanks for any advice. Car was in Philadelphia, now in South Jersey. I was just wondering because I had my mind made up on yanking the engine out for a rebuild, but I didn't want to waste my time if it isn't necessary. Also, I wanted to keep the orignal engine so I thought of swapping for a crate engine and holding onto the orignal until we could rebuild it. Engine is orignal, only one owner so I assume the numbers match, etc.. Thanks. As far as I know this was only a problem with the wood crankshafts that Ford experimented with in the '70s. I don't think any '90's came with wood cranks, but it's possible your Dad's might have had an engine swap. 180 Out > My father had a 1990 Mustang GT that lost some its "guts" or power so > my father purchased another car and let it sit idle for the last 4 [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Thanks for any advice. > As far as I know this was only a problem with the wood crankshafts that > Ford experimented with in the '70s. I don't think any '90's came with [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>camshaft (he also could have said crankshaft not sure). Does this >>sound plausible? Umm, yeah...  SignatureYou couldn't recognize a "fact" even if it took a crap on your face. - Michael Johnson, PE Weren't the wood ones only used in whittle engines????? : 0 ) >As far as I know this was only a problem with the wood crankshafts that >Ford experimented with in the '70s. I don't think any '90's came with [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >> >> Thanks for any advice. Spike 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. > Weren't the wood ones only used in whittle engines????? : 0 ) All joking aside, it wasn't THAT long ago that you could see plastic timing gears.... Some plastics are as strong as steel and much lighter. >> Weren't the wood ones only used in whittle engines????? : 0 ) > >All joking aside, it wasn't THAT long ago that you could see plastic >timing gears.... Spike 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. > Some plastics are as strong as steel and much lighter. > >>>Weren't the wood ones only used in whittle engines????? : 0 ) >> >>All joking aside, it wasn't THAT long ago that you could see plastic >>timing gears.... That might be true, but I don't think that was the case on the many sets of stripped plaastic timing gears I dealt with. 8-) Cheers, No argument about plastic used in that frame. Perhaps it had something to do with the shear direction. Much as a crystal shears on a specific plane, as you see in diamond cutting, plastics also can have directional shear based on how the molecules are aligned. The strength comes from the same thing.... how tightly the molecules are packed. Maybe those timing gears should have been constructed differently. Maybe more on the order of bulletproof glass.... layers of a polymer sandwiched between layers of polymer with a different shear direction. But, hey. Who in the 50s thought we'd be making bumpers out of plastic, let alone doors, etc. Or that an Indy racer could be built to withstand being T-boned at 200mph without reaching the driver? Technology moves ahead. Maybe someday the materials envisioned in Star Trek, like transparent aluminum, will come to pass. >> Some plastics are as strong as steel and much lighter. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Cheers, Spike 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. My '70 Pontiac GTO came with the plastic timing gear. It sheared the teeth off at 49,800 miles when the warranty on American cars was good for 5 years or 50,000 miles. Now American cars have warranties of 3 years or 36000 miles. Manufacturers must have less faith in the new cars than those manufactured in 1970. >My '70 Pontiac GTO came with the plastic timing gear. It sheared the >teeth off at 49,800 miles when the warranty on American cars was good >for 5 years or 50,000 miles. Now American cars have warranties of 3 >years or 36000 miles. Manufacturers must have less faith in the new >cars than those manufactured in 1970. Not less faith... they're just more realistic, AND they recognize the bottom line dollar figures. Just as Sears once had DieHard batteries which were exchanged with no question, today, they are pro-rated because of the money lost. The more modern cars have become, the more things which can go wrong. This is quite important when the parts are contracted out to so many different companies. All it takes is for one to have a bad production run. I've had old cars and new cars, and while the old cars were more susceptible to things like rust, the mechanics were very simple and it took quite a bit for something to go wrong as long as you maintained a minimum of standard care. Today, you have so many complicated subsystems that you can not easily maintain the total vehicle. Add that so much electronics is used, and electronics is very temperamental with regard to heat, cold, moisture, impact, and current fluctuations, anything could go bad at any time and you'd have little or no warning. Consider how the airline industry has progressed in the same way cars have. But the airline industry began building in redundant systems.... and on many aircraft, the redundant systems have redundant systems. Why would they need them? Safety and the knowledge that anything can fail at any time. An example is the C-5A military cargo aircraft. I forget how many computers it has but they have a minimum number which must be working in redundancy before the aircraft is considered ready for flight. (Ex: If the have 4 computers, then at least 3 must be fully functional.) What is the difference between cars and planes? Cars don't generally fall 40,000 feet when something fails.... and if they did, they carry a lot less in people, fuel, and munitions.... : 0 ) Spike 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. Very good reasons, Spike. But consider Hyundai, 10 years 100,000 miles on the powertrain. US manufacturers need better warranties. Philoman >Very good reasons, Spike. But consider Hyundai, 10 years 100,000 miles >on the powertrain. US manufacturers need better warranties. > >Philoman Consider where Hyundai comes from, along with a number of other makes. Places where, with the help of cheap labor, they can turn out a zillion copies for next to nothing. So, their bottom line is not hurt as bad by warrantee repairs. Naturally, that's only one aspect of the equation, but you begin to see how our labor market has hit makers in the wallet, and they're going to cut whatever corners they can to satisfy their shareholders. In time, I have little doubt you would see even Hyundai cutting the same corners as their labor costs rise, and they get stiff competition from some other producer (ie Red China). Not sure what the figures are today, but a few decades back, all the materials which went into a single vehicle were worth about $600. The rest of the cost was eaten up by things like pay scales, benefits, and some to advertising. Spike 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. That wouldn't have warped the cam shaft. He probably meant a valve. > My father had a 1990 Mustang GT that lost some its "guts" or power so > my father purchased another car and let it sit idle for the last 4 [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Thanks for any advice. > finally caved. When I asked my father why he thought it lost its power > he said that when he took it to a mechanic, the mechanic thought that > water may have gotten in through the exhaust manifild and warped the > camshaft (he also could have said crankshaft not sure). Does this > sound plausible? No. Simply because it was still running. The mechanic has no way of knowing what was bent without opening it up. You're going to have to get it running again and then diagnosis it. Or at the very least get so you can crank it over get some oil flowing, etc and then do a compression test. There are lots of things that could cause that symptom. If a compression test was done way back when to determine that something was wrong internally it would still take further testing or disassembly to figure out just what. If water go in the cylinder, then the head gasket is faulty or the surfaces of the head or block are damaged. This alone will cause power loss and result in a failed compression test. On disassembly it can be determined the extent of the damage. Did you check the fuel pump belt? Or the ignition reciprocator? > My father had a 1990 Mustang GT that lost some its "guts" or power so > my father purchased another car and let it sit idle for the last 4 [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Thanks for any advice. > My father had a 1990 Mustang GT that lost some its "guts" or power so > my father purchased another car and let it sit idle for the last 4 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > camshaft (he also could have said crankshaft not sure). Does this > sound plausible? No, not even close to plausible. Now if he had said "wiped" the camshaft, there is a remote possibility it isn't nonsense. If coolant got in the oil the abrasives that form sometimes cause camshafts to lose their lobes. But not usually roller cams (and that's what a 1990 Mustang would have). So even in the most generous interpretation, odds of the statement being correct are pretty slim. > I started reading up on working on engines because I thought this would > be an interesting, and costly journey, and from a lot of stuff I read > it seems that a lot of things can happen to rob power from your engine, > and suggestions at minimum were a compression test, and even better a > vacuum (leakdown) test to diagnose the issue. Yes, start with basics.. Check the ignition timing, check the cam timing (see if the timing chain is stretched or slipped. > Also, what do I do with the old gas that's still in the car? I > imagine I could try and siphon it out, but what do I do with it then? See if you can run it in your lawnmower. If not, call your city's waste disposal department and see if they have a program for disposing of household wastes like paint thinner, gasoline, etc. >> Also, what do I do with the old gas that's still in the car? I >> imagine I could try and siphon it out, but what do I do with it then? > > See if you can run it in your lawnmower. That's interesting advice... I usually take old or questionable gas from the boats & lawn equipment and use it in the Taurus! Rob > >> Also, what do I do with the old gas that's still in the car? I > >> imagine I could try and siphon it out, but what do I do with it then? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That's interesting advice... I usually take old or questionable gas > from the boats & lawn equipment and use it in the Taurus! Same here. A gallon or two of old gas mixed in with a nearly full tank for a car will burn fine. But old gas in a lawnmower will get you a lawnmower that won't start. Ted >> >> Also, what do I do with the old gas that's still in the car? I >> >> imagine I could try and siphon it out, but what do I do with it then? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Ted Years ago a friend found an old gas mower at the dump. We were young GIs with very small incomes ($96.90 a month- and he got a bit more for being married). Drug it home and cleaned it up. Nice repaint and everything. The day came to give it a workout. In goes the fuel from a can in the garage. After what seemed like forever, he got it started and it ran like a banshee for about 15 seconds, and then the engine became a one piece unit. A bit of investigation... guess you're not supposed to use old jet fuel in a mower. The mower was returned to the dump. Spike 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. > Years ago a friend found an old gas mower at the dump. We were young > GIs with very small incomes ($96.90 a month- and he got a bit more for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > supposed to use old jet fuel in a mower. The mower was returned to the > dump. Yeah, but I bet a John Deere lawn tractor running on JP4 would be quite the hotrod....for about 15 seconds. 8-) >> Years ago a friend found an old gas mower at the dump. We were young >> GIs with very small incomes ($96.90 a month- and he got a bit more for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Yeah, but I bet a John Deere lawn tractor running on JP4 would be quite >the hotrod....for about 15 seconds. 8-) yeah, but it sure would be an expensive 15 seconds. Spike 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. Hmmmmmm .... I wonder what they did with all the jelly fuel they used in the SR-71s...... had the oxygen impregnated into the jelly so the engines would run in thin atmosphere of 84,000+'. >> Years ago a friend found an old gas mower at the dump. We were young >> GIs with very small incomes ($96.90 a month- and he got a bit more for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Yeah, but I bet a John Deere lawn tractor running on JP4 would be quite >the hotrod....for about 15 seconds. 8-) Spike 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. >>>>Also, what do I do with the old gas that's still in the car? I >>>>imagine I could try and siphon it out, but what do I do with it then? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > for a car will burn fine. But old gas in a lawnmower will get you a > lawnmower that won't start. My lawnmower will pretty much run on swamp water. The cars get a lot more persnickety about gas quality. And they cost a LOT more to repair when bad gas gums something up... It sounds more plausible to have a warped head... >My father had a 1990 Mustang GT that lost some its "guts" or power so >my father purchased another car and let it sit idle for the last 4 [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Thanks for any advice. Spike 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. |
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