Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / January 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Rebuilding my 302!

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Ron Lyons - 04 Jan 2006 02:25 GMT
Hi guys!
 I've got a 69 mustang coupe I've had for several years now, that's a daily
driver.  The engine has finally gotten to the point where I can't bear to
see my baby like that, so I pulled the engine a few days ago with the help
of my brother, a chevy guy.

Anyways, I'm not looking for a race car, just a nice driving mustang with a
little bit of git up and go.  Actually the car with the engine almost blown
still had power to spare, if you can believe it.

I'm just looking for suggestions on minor things I should do, I know this
group has probably rebuilt thousands of 302's.  I dropped the block off at
the shop today, they're boring it .030 over, and sanding and polishing the
crank, which we'll be reinstalling with 10 over bearings.

I'm thinking stock cam.  Is that rediculous or alright for what I'm looking
for?  Any tips or things I need to know while I'm doing this?

tranny is a c4 automatic, and the engine is the original 302.  It appears
that it's never been rebuilt, and is actually the original engine from 69
according to the casting numbers.  Heads are the stock C9OE's

Thanks for any replies!

Ron
Bill - 04 Jan 2006 17:03 GMT
If you are just going the standard re-build route you can stay with the
stock cam. One of the Hi-Energy sticks from Comp Cams will give you more
power with a smooth idle. The most important thing when doing this is the
quality of the work you get from the machine shop. I have lots of horror
stories. Are you going to re-assemble the engine or is the shop going to do
it? Ask the shop about putting hardened seats in the exhaust valves as I
believe this engine was never intended to run on unleaded gas.
Good Luck
Bill in Yakima

> Hi guys!
>  I've got a 69 mustang coupe I've had for several years now, that's a
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Ron
cprice@here.com - 05 Jan 2006 02:52 GMT
    (brain dump)

    I would personally go with a retro-fit hydraulic roller cam. Run a
reltively mild duration (~270 deg) with good lift (475-480). Buy
hardened pushrods. Buy valvesprings, retainers and keepers that match
your cam.

    A precision balance for your crank/rods/pistons would be a good idea too.

    A good dual plane intake manifold (edelbrock still make a
performer/performerII?) with a 600 cfm carb (edelbrock or holley or ???).

    Distributors are always overlooked for cars of your vintage. Think
before you put that ~25 year old distributor in your new engine. I would
look at a rebuilt/recurved *electronic ignition* distributor.

    Gasket match the intake ports on your heads to your intake manifold. Do
the same for your exhaust ports.

    Get some 1 1/2" or 15/8 exhaust headers for your car and new dual
exhaust. The factory exhaust manifolds are one of the worst performance
killers.

    I would stay away from a high-volume oil pump for your application. I
would however buy a hardened oil pump driveshaft for the build.
Blueprint your oil pump.

    I 100% agree with the machine shop statement. I take the stance that
your relationship with your machinist/builder/tuner should be closer
than the one you have with your wife/girlfriend (clothes on of course).
Having a shop who knows how to do a mild performance build is key; lots
of shops will just slap things together without being picky about things
like ring-end gaps, ring side clearances, piston-deck height,
piston-to-valve clearances, etc, etc, etc...

    A great book on performance engine building and blueprinting;

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009RJI5M/qid=1136429130/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/1
04-9638545-0362351?n=507846&s=automotive&v=glance


    My personal favorite small block ford bible;

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0912656891/104-9638545-0362351?v=glance&n=283155

    You may not need every step in the book for a mild street performance
build, but it will give you an idea as to what the important details are.

> If you are just going the standard re-build route you can stay with the
> stock cam. One of the Hi-Energy sticks from Comp Cams will give you more
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>>
>>Ron
Bill - 05 Jan 2006 21:47 GMT
The car will run acceptably well with a standard rebuild.
If money is no object, and you want to mess with it a bit...
Have the cylinder heads done by someone who really knows what they are
doing. There is a ton of power in that 1/4 inch area around the valve seats.
The idea is to get air flowing at low valve lifts thus making the engine
more efficient. Multi angles, making sure the contact area of the seat is on
the top part of the valve, paying strict attention to seat width will pay
big dividends.
The second area that will unlock power is in the exhaust ports. That engine
should have heads with thermactor ports in the exhaust. Have someone cut
them out. Exhaust flow will be greatly improved. I asked a noted engine
builder about the small block Ford heads, he told me they flow so little
that almost anything you do is an improvement. The cost of having all of
that done you could probably just buy a set of the new GT-40 heads.
Does your machine shop use an automated honing machine? You want to use moly
rings and have the cylinder walls finished using the appropriate stones.
Using deck plates will also be beneficial.
Have the engine dynamically balanced.
Use a Ford duraspark distributor, have the advance re-curved for the
camshaft you are using. Use an MSD 6A.
You can use an aftermarket intake manifold and carb, or use one of the
aftermarket fuel injection systems.
If you want to see some serious RPM of the engine, you might also want to
consider using a set of Chevrolet connecting rods. The rods in the 302 are
the same length as the ones in the 289. With the increased stroke, the rod
length to stroke ratio is a little off, the rods really need to be
longer.Chevrolet rods work great after the Ford crank is turned down and
custom pistons are purchased.

OR you could just have your machine shop rebuild the engine to stock specs.
Having it balanced is a good idea. A good current grind camshaft will add
power without hurting fuel economy. If  the shop doing the work is doing a
good job, they will inspect everything that goes back in and advise you of
anything that needs to be replaced.
Drive the car and have fun.
Good Luck
Bill
1965 GT-350 Shelby
Former NHRA Super Stock National Record Holder

> (brain dump)
>
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
>>>
>>>Ron
cprice@here.com - 07 Jan 2006 23:15 GMT
    My $0.02 is to not do anything more with the stock heads than a gasket
match. gt-40p heads flow way better stock and they can be found on ebay
easy enough. If money is no object, buy some Air Flow Research CNC's
165's. Aftermarket heads for the SBF have come a VERY long way. Ebay is
a good source of used heads; gt40x's, gt40p's, Windsor Jr's can be had
for decent prices.

    Hell, if money is no object, buy a stroker kit and go 331 or 347 cubic
inches.

    Bill, no need to go chevy rods anymore. Scat, Probe and others have
solved this for us. :)

    I agree with duraspark and a msd 6a. I would again suggest not using a
junkyard duraspark. Buy a solid rebuilt.

    All the above is of course 'IMO'.

> The car will run acceptably well with a standard rebuild.
> If money is no object, and you want to mess with it a bit...
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
>>>>
>>>>Ron
cprice@here.com - 07 Jan 2006 23:30 GMT
>     My $0.02 is to not do anything more with the stock heads than a
> gasket match. gt-40p heads flow way better stock and they can be found
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>     All the above is of course 'IMO'.

    Dunno why this ended up as a reply to 66 HCS's post. Meant to reply
further up the thread to Bill.
   
Wound Up - 06 Jan 2006 03:29 GMT
>     (brain dump)

Enlightened, I shall be!

>     I would personally go with a retro-fit hydraulic roller cam. Run a
> reltively mild duration (~270 deg) with good lift (475-480). Buy
> hardened pushrods. Buy valvesprings, retainers and keepers that match
> your cam.

That's dead average on both counts.

>     A precision balance for your crank/rods/pistons would be a good idea
> too.

And what does "precision" mean, exactly?

>     A good dual plane intake manifold (edelbrock still make a
> performer/performerII?) with a 600 cfm carb (edelbrock or holley or ???).

What decade are you stuck in with that first question?  And just
throwing Edelbrock in with Holley and three more question marks?  IDIOT!

>     Distributors are always overlooked for cars of your vintage. Think
> before you put that ~25 year old distributor in your new engine. I would
> look at a rebuilt/recurved *electronic ignition* distributor.

Oh, really?  You mean that worn-out dizzy won't do the same as a new one
without the hindrance of old breaker points?

>     Gasket match the intake ports on your heads to your intake manifold.
> Do the same for your exhaust ports.

Any fool knows this.  I've never heard ANYONE say, "oh, leave the slop
on the gaskets; it helps".

>     Get some 1 1/2" or 15/8 exhaust headers for your car and new dual
> exhaust. The factory exhaust manifolds are one of the worst performance
> killers.

Another exercise in obvious bullshit.  Really, no kidding, what purpose
do they serve?  Think about what you're saying, it's all been said 1000
times in this NG alone in the past 8-10 years I've lurked and posted.
Yes, January 1996, in fact, before the golden years, and then after.  I
missed them.  You see, I was getting my Master's degree and screwing my
brains out.

>     I would stay away from a high-volume oil pump for your application.
> I would however buy a hardened oil pump driveshaft for the build.
> Blueprint your oil pump.

Stock is good?  Weak is the driveshaft?  No sh.t?  Man, it's epiphany
after ephiphany with this guy.  10 psi per 1000 rpm, did you know that
old-a.s rule of thumb?

>     I 100% agree with the machine shop statement. I take the stance that
> your relationship with your machinist/builder/tuner should be closer
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> like ring-end gaps, ring side clearances, piston-deck height,
> piston-to-valve clearances, etc, etc, etc...

Any competent shop will ask you about all of the above.  Your shop must
be staffed by half-witted sh.t stains.

>     A great book on performance engine building and blueprinting;
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0912656891/104-9638545-0362351?v=glance&n=283155 

Yada yada my knowledge comes from Google and books.

SUCK IT, TREBEK

>     You may not need every step in the book for a mild street
> performance build, but it will give you an idea as to what the important
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>>>
>>> Ron

Signature

Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

AHPBBFM posting rules: http://tinyurl.com/ak694
AHPBBFM links page: http://tinyurl.com/a9qsx

Hairy - 06 Jan 2006 04:58 GMT
~SNIP~

Whazza matter......having trouble getting it up, tonite? ;-)
Wound Up - 06 Jan 2006 06:24 GMT
> ~SNIP~
>
> Whazza matter......having trouble getting it up, tonite? ;-)

Never.  I smell an arrogant card reader, and I point him out.

Signature

Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

AHPBBFM posting rules: http://tinyurl.com/ak694
AHPBBFM links page: http://tinyurl.com/a9qsx

cprice@here.com - 07 Jan 2006 23:31 GMT
>>     (brain dump)
>
> Enlightened, I shall be!

    I see you and kate are from the same part of alabama.
66 6F HCS - 05 Jan 2006 03:00 GMT
>Ask the shop about putting hardened seats in the exhaust valves as I
>believe this engine was never intended to run on unleaded gas.

But for a daily driver it wouldn't really matter honestly. If he was gonna
put some "heat" into the cam then it might make sense.
Signature

Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.