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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / March 2006SN65: Off to Detroit Autoramma
Bob and Wayne just got the details done enough to get there... and they will be a dark horse entry for the Ridler Award. http://sn65.com/SN65%20chronological%20order%2006-01.htm Note the 1/26 posting. And the link to the forum where the various schools of thought are entered as to whether SN65 is "unique and creative" enough to win. Since I've been following this project, I guess most of you all know what I think on it... I'm 63 years old and this is the most excited I've ever been about someone else's custom work. To put a point on it... I will visit a Street Rod Cruise in, and drive away from it disappointed at the lack of daring and difference shown in those cars 99 percent of the time. Most of those cars, where customized, seem to emulate those that were crap back in the day... seeing 'em reproduced, 40 or 50 years later, leaves them STILL CRAP! IE; imagine the custom show of the future with 40 year old tricked out Civics! I have very little patience and interest for 'old-school' rodders... if you arent changing things, yer going backwards! BTW: the BatMobile sucked in the sixties and still sucks! Barris = Street Rod Whore! -So there!  SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! > Bob and Wayne just got the details done enough to get there... and they > will be a dark horse entry for the Ridler Award. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price > you pay..DEAL with it! I disagree. First, when Bob Julian first posted in this NG about his plans to drape a '65 body onto an '03 Cobra, he said the concept was to keep the '03 bits as close to an assembly line look as possible. I told him then that he should not do it that way. In fact, courtesy of the Google archives, here's exactly what I wrote in September 2004: "I disagree with the plan to try to make the car look like a production line product. One of the biggest drawbacks of the modern high tech car is all the ugly wiring and plastic connectors and vacuum hoses all over the place. You should make the underhood area a work of art, polish or anodize or powder coat everything in sight, and put OUT of sight all the wiring you can. Nobody's ever going to believe this is a production line product anyway, so what's the point? It's a one-off, the "Julian Mk I," so make it YOURS." http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang/browse_frm/thread/7 f40aa75aba6cca6/cff9907e576da641?lnk=st&q=julian+group%3Arec.autos.makers.ford.m ustang+author%3A180+author%3AOut&rnum=1&hl=en#cff9907e576da641 The results, as posted on the sn65.com website, tell me I was right. With all that time and all that money, the result is one big blah. Throw a tarp over it and open the hood and what do you see? Ford assembly line rat's nest wiring and hoses and connectors and a factory Eaton blower and factory valve covers, circa 2003. So you whip off the tarp and now you see a stock '65 Stang. Look inside, it's an '03 dash and seats and '65 door panels. Blah. Second, it's completely an apples and oranges deal to compare a custom like the sn65 with the garden variety car show attendee's hobby car. Compare it to the Stielow Mule, or the Year One '65 Stang, or that 10,000 man hour hand built '71 Cuda in the latest Popular Hot Rodding, or even those overwrought Ring Brothers Mustangs. When you put as much time and money into a project as the sn65 has required, this is the class you're up against. For that matter, I don't even think this car could compete for the Good Guys Street Machine of the Year, which so far have always been won by shade tree guys showing their personal cars. Again, the sn65 is just too blah. I understand the concept, but it's an answer to a question nobody asked. Hey, there's no accounting for tastes. I could be wrong. I could be 180 out. In fact, I AM 180 Out >> Bob and Wayne just got the details done enough to get there... and >> they will be a dark horse entry for the Ridler Award. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > him then that he should not do it that way. In fact, courtesy of the > Google archives, here's exactly what I wrote in September 2004: In other words... you advocated him doing a variation of what EVERYONE ELSE DOES!!!! > Hey, there's no accounting for tastes. I could be wrong. I could be > 180 out. In fact, I AM > > 180 Out Exactly... and it seems so are you and I... but your take aint exactly 180 out of the main stream rodder, is it? However, "I will defend to the death your right to be ordinary.." ;) Cheers, Bub! SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, ... ah, never mind! BM wrote: > "I will defend to the death your right to be ordinary." I like that. Somebody needs to put that in his sig file. 180 Out P.S. The direction *I* think a '65 ought to go, as currently underway on my kids' '65 289 fb: * 6 pt rollcage, frame connectors, underhood shocktower bracing * Power front disc brakes (11" 4-piston SSBC; sd've gone bigger); CV rear drums * 17 x 8 Raceline GT rims, 235/45-17 "Falkens" (next up, Nitto track tires) * 480/680 coils, KYB Gas-a-Justs (sd've gone Bilstein), 1" sway bar, Baer bump steer kit * Rollerized spring perches, rod-end struts, rollerized idler arm * 1" Shelby drop (sd've gone 1.5"), boxed upper and lower arms * Rebuilt OE 20:1 steering box (sd've gone power, 16:1) * Eaton 153 lb leafs w/lowering leaf, Slide-a-Links, Fays2 Watts link, Pro-Thane poly shackles * 8" with 3.55's and Auburn LSD * T5z 5-spd, countergear stabilizer, iron bearing retainer, hydraulic T.O. bearing, MGW shifter To be added after daughter no. 2 leaves home: * 351 roller block from the yard * 408 stroker Scat knife edge crank, H-beams, forged KB pistons, stud girdle * Ported CHI 3v Clevo heads (2.15/1.65, 218 cc), CHI Clevor single plane intake * Comp Pro Magnum rockers and beehive springs * Schubeck Roller X lifters * Holley DP set up for blow through * STS style rear turbo, using Dr. Gas oval exhaust pipes in both directions That's my definition of ordinary. 1000 hp at the tires. Yawn. 180 Out > BM wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > * Power front disc brakes (11" 4-piston SSBC; sd've gone bigger); CV > rear drums Tonsagoodies descr. snipped > That's my definition of ordinary. 1000 hp at the tires. Yawn. > > 180 Out Kudo's to ya.. but not my cuppa, for a street rod, either. There WILL be photo's right? SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, and I will defend to the death your right to be ordinary...DEAL with it! Backyard wrote: > There WILL be photo's right? Here's what I've got on the web right now. It's a mixed bag, each one put up for use in some forum post or another. The mustangmods.com are due to come down any day now. 2.5 years ago, Route 12, Saskatchewan Canada, daughter no. 2: http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/forums/photopost486/data/501/22316vic_and_hay.jpg One year ago, with old springs: http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/resized_2.jpg Roll cage: http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0114.jpg http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0116.jpg http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0115.jpg Watts link: http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/watts_cradle.jpg http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/watts_crank.jpg Slide-a-Links spring perch and Watts link transverse arm: http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/watts_driver.jpg Lowering leaf clamped on top of 4-leaf spring pack: http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/spring_middle_r.jpg http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/spring_front_r.jpg Master cylinder: http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/ms2.jpg Oops, wrong master cylinder. Here are the right ones: http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/forums/photopost486/data/500/22316FWsized.JPG (JMC MC for T.O. bearing) http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/forums/photopost486/data/500/22316MCsized.JPG (Scott Drake MC for '65 w/stick) McLeod/JMC hydraulic T.O. bearing kit: http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/forums/photopost486/data/500/22316TOsized.JPG I guess that's it, of what I have up on the web. 180 Out > or even those overwrought Ring Brothers Mustangs. When you put as much > time and money into a project as the sn65 has required, this is the > class you're up against. It's not like he cannot go back later and do all the powder coating and shrouds and what not should he want to. Remember this is his brother's body shop, it's not like they are out much to go back and change their minds should they want to. The idea to make the car as production line like as possible is a noble goal and probably only appreciated by people like myself who can't just design something fancy that takes a lot of man hours to accomplish. When I design product I have to try to get the best performance, looks, use, durability, product quality, all while making it cheap and such that ham fisted monkeys with sledgehammers can assemble it. And that's not even taking into account the needs of product service and the marketeers who want everything but the kitchen sink in a package and budget only big enough for a 1/4 of it. Designing something great that takes talented crafts people and a billion man hours to accomplish is easy by comparison. I appreciate the SN65 because it tries to do something more or less within the bounds that I have to work within every day. He built a car that is really a few stamping tools away from something that could be made in volume. It's really a prototype of something that could be built by the tens of thousands minus the attention to paint and other finishes. If a bunch of craftspeople and metal fabricators don't appreciate it, oh well. When I see something that can only be made by hand by skilled artists of the industrial arts I think that's nice and it begins to race through my head how to make it a production vehicle. The Ford GT, I wasn't sitting there in amazement, I was looking it with the eye of how could I deliver this product for market for half or less of what ford is selling it for with a great deal more volume. It's all in the point of view. You're looking at the car from the eye of an artist who just has art and craftsmanship to be concerned about. I look it with the eye of an engineer doing product design and development. If I had access to the production SN95 and 1965 mustang tooling a pittance of tooling money by automotive standards along with the ford assembly line I think I could get that car into production, and that makes it worthy of praise in my view. Here's a post from Bob Julian to the Corner-carvers.com forum: Holly (@$(&@$&!!!!!!! I just took the SN65 out for a spin (only around the block) and I am totally blown away. Every fear I had about lackluster acceleration, poor ride quality, misc. rattles, sluggish handling, etc.... has been officially laid to rest. This car is a real screamer. :-) When I pulled it out of the shop, I told myself to take it easy. We still have to log about 500 miles before the new clutch setup is fully broke in and I was really concerned over loose nuts and bolts, etc... After all, we did have every last nut and bolt off the car at one point or another. I eased into the throttle and the car pulled away very smooth and responsive. Slight changes in the throttle gave me a feeling that the car will pull really well. The handling was phenomenal. Going around a couple corners at moderate speeds gave me the feeling that the car was on rails. The cockpit is just tight enough to give you a nice secure feel without being cramped. The ride quality was a major concern of mine. We eliminated quite a few rubber components and replaced them with Delron and aluminum. I was really afraid that these changes would make the ride overly harsh and noisy, but the ride was surprisingly smooth. The sound from the exhaust was just perfect. The car produces a nice mellow rumble at idle and a throaty growl under moderate acceleration. Speaking of "moderate" acceleration. When the car is rolling along at about 35 to 40, if we just pop the throttle up to about 1/5 to 3/4 acceleration, the tires tend to break free. The F1's are a bit worn, but they still have a bit of tread left. I thought they would hold better. I guess the real test will be with the new rims and Toyo's rolling. I really did not want to bring the car back to the shop. I just wanted to drive off into the sunset. It is the most fun I have had in a car ever, and it only lasted about 3 to 5 minutes. It is going to drive me nuts having this thing sitting here and not being able to drive fit. I want to drive it to a couple of Ford dealers in the area just for an oil change. I want to drive it to a couple of exotic car dealers and take a few people for a test drive. Speaking of test drives, I really want to be able to take some of you out for a spin. I wish I could take all of you, but time will not allow. Mark my words. If any of you who have been following this thread, ever come up to me at a car show, and we can arrange for some time on the road, we will do it. Better yet, when we do the power tour, we will be happy to swap passengers with others on the trip. After all, If you get to ride in our car, we get to ride in yours. Well, I have to get back to work. We have lots of little details yet to finish before the unveiling at the Autoramma. Bob __________________ Bob http://sn65.com/ > Here's a post from Bob Julian to the Corner-carvers.com forum: > > Holly (@$(&@$&!!!!!!! SNIP... > Bob > http://sn65.com/ Hi 180, So, some people do read those posts. :-) We have just returned from the Autorama. And while we did not win the "Ridler", we did not leave empty handed. We were presented with the "Outstanding Engineered" award for excellence in engineering. The Judges said that this was the most well engineered auto they have seen in a long time. The attention to detail was phenomenal and the execution of the concept was extraordinary. Also, the fact that the SN65 looks like it could have rolled off the factory assembly line is exactly what make the car interesting and unique. As far as overall difficulty goes, doing a project in the way that we did is actually more complex than a traditionl buid. Bob Bob Julian wrote: > We were presented with the "Outstanding Engineered" award for > excellence in engineering. The Judges said that this was the most well > engineered auto they have seen in a long time. The attention to detail > was phenomenal and the execution of the concept was extraordinary. > Also, the fact that the SN65 looks like it could have rolled off the > factory assembly line is exactly what make the car interesting and > unique. As far as overall difficulty goes, doing a project in the way > that we did is actually more complex than a traditionl buid. Congratulations on the trophy. That's a great accomplishment, to be the best engineered car at the top indoor hot rod show of the year. There's no doubt it's well deserved. Do you get to drive it some more, now, or is it booked for car show appearances the rest of the year? 180 Out Hi 180, We have only been able to take it out a couple of times. It is a blast to drive. Not only is it fast and nimble, but the driving experiance is totally surreal. The sound of the engine and the feel of the road as you push the pedal to the floor. The mix of 03 and 65 in the interior give you a totally different perspective as you look out over the hood. It is the most interesting blend of old and new. I really can't get enough. If I could drive this car 24/7 I would do it. Bob By the way... the devil's in the fit, finish and detail. If they give points for that, you have to say it's likely a cut above. And dont worry about how much money and time they put in it.. even if it wins nothing, it has already gotten Wayne's shop enough biz to make it worthwhile... and hardly anyone has seen it yet. SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! |
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