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Car Forum / Ford / Ford Mustang / March 2006

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FORD 460 OIL PRESSURE

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MIKE - 03 Mar 2006 05:48 GMT
I have a difficult problem with a ford 460 in a rv converted shuttle
bus. After running dry on oil(dont know why that happened) the oil
pressure is 0 i confirmed that it really has no op. the engine is not
locked up and starts but with no op i dont dare run it. if the oil pump
is really dead its a real bear to get it out of the engine in this
vehicle. this sounds real rube goldberg but is it possible to pump oil
into another place in the engine like where the oil pressure sending
unit is and have it circulate to the critical places? i cant find any
place that shows the oil circulation path in the engine. I could get an
electric pump hook the suction side to the oil pan drain and the
discharge to some other place in the engine?

if anyone knows where i can find a drawing showing the oil circulation
path in this engine please post it.
thanks

mike
elaich - 03 Mar 2006 16:46 GMT
"MIKE" <cammanax@aol.com> wrote in news:1141364897.534326.173560
@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I have a difficult problem with a ford 460 in a rv converted shuttle
> bus. After running dry on oil(dont know why that happened) the oil
> pressure is 0 i confirmed that it really has no op. the engine is not
> locked up and starts but with no op i dont dare run it. if the oil pump
> is really dead its a real bear to get it out of the engine in this
> vehicle.

It's not really that bad unless the design of the bus makes it so. The
pump is at the front of the block, and can be changed by simply dropping
the oil pan. I've changed them in a hour before.

What's more likely is that the pump drive shaft under the distributor has
sheared off. Pull the distributor and you'll know immediately.

this sounds real rube goldberg but is it possible to pump oil
> into another place in the engine like where the oil pressure sending
> unit is and have it circulate to the critical places? i cant find any
> place that shows the oil circulation path in the engine. I could get an
> electric pump hook the suction side to the oil pan drain and the
> discharge to some other place in the engine?

I really doubt that would work. 460s oil in this order: cam; crank & top
end. The oil pressure sender is at the back of the block at the very top:
in other words, at the very end of the oiling system. You'd do better to
install a dry sump system like racers use, but you're talking about a lot
of expense.
MIKE - 04 Mar 2006 17:42 GMT
the design of the bus make it painful to remove the pan you must remove
2 a/c compressors and some other components loosen the engine and jack
the whole engine up to access the pan bolts
one80out@hotmail.com - 06 Mar 2006 23:09 GMT
Does the motor run?  If it doesn't even try to fire, take the
distributor cap off and crank the starter.  If the rotor doesn't move,
you've got either a fragged distributor gear or the roll pin that
secures the gear to the distributor shaft is sheared off.  The
distributor gear has a hex-shaped female opening that the hex-shaped
oil pump drive shaft slides into.  So if the gear isn't turning, the
oil pump won't turn either.  This would be the easiest thing to fix,
although if it were me I would still drop the pan to remove the broken
bits.

If it's a sheared roll pin, the most likely cause is a piece of valve
seal got into the oil pump and locked it up.

If the rotor turns, then I would check for sure that there's no oil
pressure.  A wiring problem or a bad sensor can make the pressure gauge
or the idiot light give a false indication of no pressure.  For this
check disconnect the plumbing where the oil pressure sender screws in
(probably at the front of the block down low on the driver's side) and
crank the engine to see if there's leakage.

If there's no leakage, and if the distributor rotor is turning, then
you need to check for a broken or twisted oil pump shaft.  (The shaft
can twist up like a licorice stick and get too short to keep from
falling out.)  Take out the distributor and look down inside the hole
and look for the hex-shaped male shaft.

If it's there, then you've got a big problem, that somewhere there's an
internal "leak" that's letting all the oil supply out.  Good oil
pressure requires that there be something for the pump to push against.
If all the oil is escaping through a wide-open leak, then there's
nothing to push against.  Possibly a bearing shell has been spun and
ground down so thin that the oil that comes out the galley at that
bearing is escaping out the sides and robbing the oil pressure from the
rest of the engine.

If this is the case, no externally jerry-rigged oiling system is going
to  help.  Also, if your problem is a busted oil pump drive shaft, it's
might be just a matter of time before the crank catches one of the
broken pieces and flings it hard into something else, totally fragging
your engine and leaving your RV conversion stranded in the middle of
nowhere.

I don't know how much of this makes sense, and your comments about how
hard it would be to drop the pan indicate you don't have much of a
commitment to actually fix the problem. So I don't know why I typed all
this up.  Guess I was just bored (as usual).
elaich - 07 Mar 2006 04:49 GMT
one80out@hotmail.com wrote in news:1141686557.746095.87010
@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:

> Does the motor run?  If it doesn't even try to fire, take the
> distributor cap off and crank the starter.  If the rotor doesn't move,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> although if it were me I would still drop the pan to remove the broken
> bits.

I took it from his original post that the motor runs, but shows no oil
pressure.

> If it's a sheared roll pin, the most likely cause is a piece of valve
> seal got into the oil pump and locked it up.

I've had several of the sheared pins, and the motor always dies
instantly, since the timing is suddenly off by a ton.

BTW, the valve seal in the oil pump is still a mandate to drop the pan.
The only way it got in there was that the oil filter screen became
weakened and saggy from age, or is completely plugged, and the bypass
hole opened up. The screen must be replaced, since any bit of foreign
material from this point on is gonna seize up the pump again.
MIKE - 14 Mar 2006 22:42 GMT
OK first IM NOT AN IDIOT OR "UNCOMMITED" I AM JUST LOOKING FOR OUTSIDE
INPUT ...The engine runs starts easily but i have confirmed ther is NO
oil pressure(my first check was removing the sending unit). the vehicle
is in a palce where i cannot undertake the job of removing the pan so
that is not an option right now. What i do need is to find out if ther
is another way to move this vehicke without doing further damage other
than towing a 14,000 pound vehicle 60 miles back to my house.
one80out@hotmail.com - 15 Mar 2006 05:28 GMT
> OK first IM NOT AN IDIOT OR "UNCOMMITED" I AM JUST LOOKING FOR OUTSIDE
> INPUT

OK, so you're committed, as in 12 days have gone by and you've done
nothing to deal with your problem.

> The engine runs starts easily but i have confirmed ther is NO
> oil pressure(my first check was removing the sending unit). the vehicle
> is in a palce where i cannot undertake the job of removing the pan so
> that is not an option right now. What i do need is to find out if ther
> is another way to move this vehicke without doing further damage other
> than towing a 14,000 pound vehicle 60 miles back to my house.

Yeah, it's called eBay.  Fix it or eBay it or tow it, that's about it.

And don't bother thanking a stranger who took the time to try to help
you with your problem, evidently spending more time on it than you
have.  I guess my comment -- "you don't have much of a commitment to
actually fix the problem" -- could bruise a tender heart, and for that
I apologise, but the fact is the RV's still sittin' where it was 12
days ago.

Why am I doing this?  Two posts to the Usenet in one sitting.  What a
waste of time.

180 Out
MIKE - 18 Mar 2006 08:17 GMT
dont know why im even responding its sitting because it dosnt need to
move yet.is being used in its present location..thanks for your
response..feel better now? im not "bruised" and i have done something
about it in 12 days i did research on the lube system..i feel like you
WHY am i bothering to respond im outta here...again thanks to ALL who
responded
MIKE - 18 Mar 2006 08:17 GMT
dont know why im even responding its sitting because it dosnt need to
move yet.is being used in its present location..thanks for your
response..feel better now? im not "bruised" and i have done something
about it in 12 days i did research on the lube system..i feel like you
WHY am i bothering to respond im outta here...again thanks to ALL who
responded
 
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